So a Guardian with Unremitting jumps me and Master Strikes

[Superawesomerman]

Solutions for reducing damage taken by master strike without pressing directional movement keys:

 

Marauder: Force Camo (Best choice to not eat the full channel), Saber Ward (2nd best choice due to long CD), Cloak of Pain.

BH (any spec) : Pop Shield.

Sin: Deflection, or Force Cloak, or counter with HS-ed Lightning

Op: Dodge, Combat Stealth.

Sorc: Bubble, Channel heal self, they have to stop channeling their spell to interrupt yours.

Sniper: Dodge.

Jug: Friendly Leap away. Saber Ward.

 

Coughpacifycough

[Ossos]

Cant walk out of the way fast enough without a speed/leap. The last tick will finish up to 10-15 meters if he's facing you or not. Well out of initial strike range. It was a nice little stealth buff to keep people from just side stepping the damage. With stagger on you will eat it all. And God help you if they hit you with an overhand slash or plasma brand afterwards and reset the cooldown on MS. Push, leap, repeat. So no, he's playing right. You're just a gear-dependent PvPer.

 

Thats a nice little buff. I didn't know that. My apologies then.

 

Looks like you're F----cked OP. What's funny about this is that nothing will be fixed. AHAHAHAHA

[SlimsPicken]

Solutions for reducing damage taken by master strike without pressing directional movement keys:

 

Marauder: Force Camo (Best choice to not eat the full channel), Saber Ward (2nd best choice due to long CD), Cloak of Pain.

BH (any spec) : Pop Shield.

Sin: Deflection, or Force Cloak, or counter with HS-ed Lightning

Op: Dodge, Combat Stealth.

Sorc: Bubble, Channel heal self, they have to stop channeling their spell to interrupt yours.

Sniper: Dodge.

Jug: Friendly Leap away. Saber Ward.

 

ok, now what to do when MS/ravage refreshes in 30 secs and many of these class counters refresh at 1-2 minutes?

 

the bottom line is theres really no counter to this ability/talent combo in practical situations.

[Smashbrother]

'Run away'

 

Does anyone even realize that leap has a root on it that lets you eat the entire MS? Your only way to get out of that is to use your CC breaker- and at 2 minute CD that's not very reliable.

 

Leap has a 2s root that STARTS when the guardian leaps. GCD is 1.5s.

 

So yes, you can move.

[MimicUnleashed]

I'd accept if the talent made them immune to KB / interrupt but not STUNS for christ.

 

Well MS cant be interrupted now. The anti-stun is 4 seconds out of 15. And you have to be at least 15 meters away. The only time this talent is broken as all holy bullocks is when the entire team charges the bridge in voidstar, you leap into the middle, pop Awe to AOE stun everyone, push someone off the edge, and Guardian leap out. You're vulnerable to having something done to you for .5 seconds. But knee-jerk is to push off the bridge right at the get-go and no one has a counter after the Awe or the repeated leap out to the guy you missed with Awe.

 

Other than that it just makes you play smarter as both a Guardian and another class. I know I'm god for 4 seconds, but is it worth leaping in? Baddies will leap in.

[Easpeak]

Move.

 

The timer for the root applied begins when he leaps, not when he lands.

 

You move.

 

Bad PvPer is bad.

 

I don't think you really know how latency hits this game and how Bioware made range quite "forgiving" - so even when people get out of 4m but stay withing 5-10m (might be up to 12m depending on the lag) they will still eat the last hit. And when it roots you for 3 secs that means they will defo eat the first 2 hits, it's just about eating the last tick or being lucky and getting away.

[thepilk]

ok, now what to do when MS/ravage refreshes in 30 secs and many of these class counters refresh at 1-2 minutes?

 

the bottom line is theres really no counter to this ability/talent combo in practical situations.

 

You stay within 10m of him until you kill him so that he cant use his leap anymore.

[thepilk]

Solutions for reducing damage taken by master strike without pressing directional movement keys:

 

Marauder: Force Camo (Best choice to not eat the full channel), Saber Ward (2nd best choice due to long CD), Cloak of Pain.

BH (any spec) : Pop Shield.

Sin: Deflection, or Force Cloak, or counter with HS-ed Lightning

Op: Dodge, Combat Stealth.

Sorc: Bubble, Channel heal self, they have to stop channeling their spell to interrupt yours.

Sniper: Dodge.

Jug: Friendly Leap away. Saber Ward.

 

Sentinel/Maurder can also use Pacify/Obfuscate and drop his accuracy by 90%, then just watch him miss 3 times. Thats usually my goto against master strike/ravage.

Edited June 1, 2012 by thepilk

[Jatria]

I seriously can't believe how much QQ'ing master strike/ravage gets, its not that big of a deal and yet people talk like its a one shot ability that you can't possibly ever escape.

Is it because they're too lazy to move? If you can't move because of that talented root effect then accept that your opponent has used one of his cooldowns on you.

[wadecounty]

I play a Vigilance Guardian (4/33/4). IMO it is a very underrated class in PvP right now, the only true hard counter to it is a tank Assassin (but nothing beats a tank Assassin right now), and a well played Annihilation Marauder will usually come out on top though its a fairly even fight.

 

I use this combo all the time in PvP. Besides force speed, or other cd's to flat out avoid the damage, there is 1 other option. Most decent Vigilance Guardians will have their root talented to 3 seconds, so you're not going to run out of it... but Unremitting only lasts for 4 seconds, and between the GCD from leaping in (1.5 seconds) and channeling Master Strike (3 seconds), you're looking at 4.5 seconds... meaning a .5 second window that you CAN CC/KB the attacker beore that last tick of Master Strike goes off.

 

So if you're prepared for it, the best strategy is to eat the first 2 ticks and dish out damage back to that Guardian, then time your KB or CC for right beore that third hit goes off. Fortunately, most people panic when you leap in at them and burn their CC/KB right away. Even experienced players that I've fought many times before still make that same mistake, although occasionally when I know they know what to do, I'll instead open with a Plasma Brand/Blade Storm combo.

[Sabredance]

Most decent Vigilance Guardians will have their root talented to 3 seconds, so you're not going to run out of it... but Unremitting only lasts for 4 seconds, and between the GCD from leaping in (1.5 seconds) and channeling Master Strike (3 seconds), you're looking at 4.5 seconds... meaning a .5 second window that you CAN CC/KB the attacker beore that last tick of Master Strike goes off.

 

So if you're prepared for it, the best strategy is to eat the first 2 ticks and dish out damage back to that Guardian, then time your KB or CC for right beore that third hit goes off. Fortunately, most people panic when you leap in at them and burn their CC/KB right away. Even experienced players that I've fought many times before still make that same mistake, although occasionally when I know they know what to do, I'll instead open with a Plasma Brand/Blade Storm combo.

 

This is spot-on.

Read it and learn from it.

 

a well played Annihilation Marauder will usually come out on top though its a fairly even fight.

 

I completely disagree with this tho.

No chance - not at all - if he is not undergeared and/or just plain bad.

Edited June 1, 2012 by Sabredance

[anwg]

The charge effect really needs to be dispellable.

 

The only "counter" I have is if you see him cast master strike, immediately cast heal on yourself, so hopefully you can at least negate the damage of the first 2 ticks. Of course you have to be fast or he might interrupt you after MS. Not sure what you can do if you can't heal.

Edited June 1, 2012 by anwg

[HTPRO]

I play a Vigilance Guardian (4/33/4). IMO it is a very underrated class in PvP right now, the only true hard counter to it is a tank Assassin (but nothing beats a tank Assassin right now), and a well played Annihilation Marauder will usually come out on top though its a fairly even fight.

 

I use this combo all the time in PvP. Besides force speed, or other cd's to flat out avoid the damage, there is 1 other option. Most decent Vigilance Guardians will have their root talented to 3 seconds, so you're not going to run out of it... but Unremitting only lasts for 4 seconds, and between the GCD from leaping in (1.5 seconds) and channeling Master Strike (3 seconds), you're looking at 4.5 seconds... meaning a .5 second window that you CAN CC/KB the attacker beore that last tick of Master Strike goes off.

 

So if you're prepared for it, the best strategy is to eat the first 2 ticks and dish out damage back to that Guardian, then time your KB or CC for right beore that third hit goes off. Fortunately, most people panic when you leap in at them and burn their CC/KB right away. Even experienced players that I've fought many times before still make that same mistake, although occasionally when I know they know what to do, I'll instead open with a Plasma Brand/Blade Storm combo.

 

True, however considering there is server delay and the window is only 0.5s, let's say it is very hard to interrupt the cast properly.

 

It is possible nevertheless. Guess i'll have to improve my reaction time a bit ;]

[MimicUnleashed]

You stay within 10m of him until you kill him so that he cant use his leap anymore.

 

That would put you inside the AOE slow ability. Which wouldn't let you kite. And most of the time I will guardian leap a friendly, then leap back on their head to start the rotation again. Of course bads will screw it up, so if it works then laugh, if not... well you were warned.

[Shadenuat]

I play hybrid with vigilance and it's really one of the trump cards of mine (along with 60% critical increase for Dispatch which is blatantly insane). I always get a stun or knockback, because ranged characters, sages/sorcs and commandos/mercs in particular have it burried in their brain to use KB on a jump. That's why when I play as a sage, I always prefer to save my KB for latter, because who knows what skill the jumped guy used. My logic is that, when I use Master Strike, I don't want that nuke go to waste, so I speced my alt that way and try to prevent CC on me. And obviously, I'm not the only smartguy, so other guardians/juggs could do that aswell.

 

So it's better to, when someone, like jugg in that case, jumps on you, is to go passive defense. As a Sage/Sorc bubble and heal yourself, and then run. Commando/Merc can use his shield, 10% heal or tech override + drone. After you've eaten a nukestrike, you may as well use your knockback.

Edited June 1, 2012 by Shadenuat

[UberDuberSoldat]

You can not walk away, I suppose you do not play much PVP. The first two ticks of master strike are pretty much instant and the third tick will still hit you at about 12 meters. Unless you play a sage / shadow [imp. counterparts] you simply can not walk out of the master strike / ravage. 3 Seconds is exactly the length of MS / ravage meaning one thing = you will eat it.

 

As previous poster said, if the guardian is lucky and gets his MS reset, he can do this all again [Push -> Leap -> MS].

 

Honestly the only class I truly fear in PvP is a well played Vigilance Guardian / Vengeance Jugger. Fortunately almost nobody plays them.

 

Also I play assault commando but the class honestly doesn't matter. The only thing to counter this is CC breaker + force speed or Smuggler / Imperial Agent defensive cooldown [the one giving 100% dodge]

 

EDIT: bookmark this thread and read it a month or two from now. I guarantee you Vigilance Guardian / Vengeance Jugger WILL be the next fotm.

 

 

 

 

 

I'd accept if the talent made them immune to KB / interrupt but not STUNS for christ.

 

You can't be more wrong. Nothing has changed since 1.2, and barely anyone runs vengeance because it's not worth giving up the big guaranteed crit smashes. Only bad guardians/jugs go vengeance. While it might be nice to use the CC immunity in 1v1's, giving up a massive AOE every 12 seconds in favor of that isn't very good.

Edited June 1, 2012 by UberDuberSoldat

[kaya]

Its a nasty combo, theres a few ways out of it (or at least the last hit, the first 2 land so quick people eat them 99% of the time).

For a start theres 0.5 sec before it hits during which his immunity to cc is finished, so any and all cc's if you time it right (its tough, no argument).

Otherwise

Guardian - friendly leap, leap to enemy outside of range or saber ward

Sentinel - force camo, leap to enemy outside range, transcendance, pacify or saber ward

Sage - force speed or dispel root and run (root is physical afaik - so only an option for heal spec).

Shadow - force speed removes roots on tank spec, vanish or deflection

Gunslinger - dont get leaped!!!. Sharpshooter has an accuracy debuff and dodge

Scoundrel - dodge (immune to phsyical attacks for 3 secs), vanish or dispel root and run (all specs have phsical dispel). Worst case scenario that cd that arbsorbs damage.

Commando - be annoyed that you suck ... or dispel and run

Vanguard - mines level 14 atm, so no idea, i presume they have an option or 2.

 

Some have better options than others but all have some way out of it

 

Another option is to start casting your biggest heal - he'll get the MS off but you should get your heal off too, it mitigates it somewhat

Edited June 1, 2012 by kaya

[Carcarah]

If you are full health pop your def cooldown and counter attack.

If you are half your health pop a self healing, generally I rather interrupt a heal than have my third hit landed, specially if my power buffs are down.

If you are 1/3 of your health, pray!

[Astarica]

If Ravage always gets countered why even have it in the game? Should the skill just cancel itself and smack yourself for 1K whenever you try to use it because you're clearly not allowed to get it off successfully even when speced specificlaly to ensure it will succeed?

 

I don't know if this spec is weak (too few of those guys around) but at least it doesn't seem overpowered, and since the spec specifically have talents that make Ravage hard to counter, I don't have a problem with Ravage doing exactly that.

[ShadowOfVey]

The unthinkable has happened, people have realized vengeance is good?

 

Sky is falling.

 

This is like 3 months ago when I was wondering why no one realizeed how good DPS PTs were.

[Zunayson]

I break cryo grenade and get neural surged. what do I do other than eating a full 5 stacked PG Pulse Cannon?

 

I break Jarring Strike and get Debilitated. what do I do other than getting tickled by 4k crits lacerations amirite?

 

and so on and so fourth.

 

But if you want a real solution you are probably: Some FOTM Marauder who can always camo, some former-FOTM operative who can evasion and watch him rage, a FOTM shadow who can vanish...

 

and so on and so fourth.

 

No, not every single thing should have a counter on a shorter or same cooldown, because then the guardian can't do damage. It's like the guardian asking how he's supposed to masterstrike after a marauder camos.

Edited June 2, 2012 by Zunayson

[AKfourtyseven]

So if you're prepared for it, the best strategy is to eat the first 2 ticks and dish out damage back to that Guardian, then time your KB or CC for right beore that third hit goes off. Fortunately, most people panic when you leap in at them and burn their CC/KB right away. Even experienced players that I've fought many times before still make that same mistake, although occasionally when I know they know what to do, I'll instead open with a Plasma Brand/Blade Storm combo.

 

This.

 

I play 4/33/4 Vig and its so easy to counter ravage/master strike. You eat the first two since you arent avoiding it anyway, then you time your choice of CC for the 3rd hit, then you smack them again- the end result is you deal more than they did.

Edited June 2, 2012 by AKfourtyseven

[MorgothQuick]

You can't be more wrong. Nothing has changed since 1.2, and barely anyone runs vengeance because it's not worth giving up the big guaranteed crit smashes. Only bad guardians/jugs go vengeance. While it might be nice to use the CC immunity in 1v1's, giving up a massive AOE every 12 seconds in favor of that isn't very good.

 

Only Guardians/Juggernauts who care about seeing big numbers and dont care about team work go Rage.

 

Am I doing it right?

Edited June 2, 2012 by MorgothQuick

[DrRepulsor]

Unremitting makes you immune to everything for 4 seconds. No CCs, no Pushbacks, nothing. If they specced for stagger, you're going to stand there and pout for 3 whole seconds (enough time to eat the whole Master Strike) while they go to work. But considering that Guardians/Juggs have no stuns in that spec it's about the same as getting stunned and having a big opener dropped on you.

 

Actually u wrong there is 0.5 sec window to interupt last hit of ravage meaning u avaiding almost half of dmg of ravage with knock back, stun, or simply use force speed and with many other options.

 

AND FOR EVERY1 ELSE below

 

So if any of u saying how the hell i can do that in 0.5 sec start casting cus i know there is animation timer on knock backs ur knock back little after second hit of ravage AND STOP complaining just L2P

[ShadowOfVey]

On my jugg alt when someone uses ravage on me I try to intercede away and then leap back. Not because it's the best way to handle it but just because it's fun.