McDaniels Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 You guys act like buying grenades and adrenals is actually going to be feasible. It'll probably take 2 or 3 warzones to be able to afford one and its a 5 min cd.... L2math Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizban Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Sorry but you're wrong. What that would result in is a more flavorful game because every competitive PvPer in the game wouldn't have the same 2 crafting professions. Flavor = being able to craft what you want without being gimped, that leads to variety, more people with different crafting profs. If your definition of flavor is 50% of the server being biochem or cybertech then... I dunno... You're saying that no matter what you craft, it should have the same effect.. That is the opposite of Flavor! Ham, tastes just like chicken. Steak, tastes just like chicken. Veal, tastes just like chicken. WoW, tastes just like chicken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucioon Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 You will be popping more of your actual ability CC than an consumable, those grenade and Stims are more of an save yourself from one hit kills kind of thing. Not the I WIN button. That you are making it out to be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaidax Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Actually, Vanilla Ret Pallies were "ok", but not completely horrible. I got to rank 13 in Vanilla... Reckbomb was the easy way to go really, Rets 21/0/30 were good when geared, but the RNG was horrible with SoC (you either cleave the **** out of stuff or sit there bashing keyboard in frustration)... and engineering was a must really, I especially liked Divine Shield Death Ray combo, back then when DS was reducing attack speed and not damage. Bottom line, I really hope there won't be Engineering 2.0 here, it makes things really broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iGypsy Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 1. Purchasable grenades, as long as they are accessible, pretty much solves the issue. 2. Diminishing returns helps (or whatever Bioware's version of it is called) With a 5 minute cooldown I'm not so worried about this any more. ------------------------------------------------ Now, that being said. Originally I was hoping to take Slicing/Under World Trading/Investigation as my professions. If I don't have any crafting profession, will I be at a disadvantage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDaniels Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 You're saying that no matter what you craft, it should have the same effect.. That is the opposite of Flavor! Ham, tastes just like chicken. Steak, tastes just like chicken. Veal, tastes just like chicken. WoW, tastes just like chicken. K... so using your example theres 3 different meats that taste different but everyone who cares about the quality of the flavor eats only 1 meat... Would you rather have everyone eat the same meat or everyone eat different meats that are similar? To say that crafting lacks flavor because the individual PvP advantages are the same is nitpicking to me. The BoP advantages of crafting aren't even necessary in MMOs but Bioware seems to have felt it was necessary to rip that aspect of WoW as they did with just about every other feature. It's just meaningless and adds another incentive for players to grind out crafting profs that they don't really care about other than for PvP buffs. To force players into a specific craft in the name of "flavor" detracts tremendously from the game because it forces people to weigh their will to craft what they want and would enjoy producing versus what will make them competitive in PvP... bad scenario... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaidax Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Well... the point besides them available to all one way or another is that they really introduce a balance issue in PvP... For example for a class with lots of inherent CC it may be "meh ok", while for a class with little CC it will skyrocket by sealing their intended weakness of having little cc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reofjsof Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 It's just meaningless and adds another incentive for players to grind out crafting profs that they don't really care about other than for PvP buffs. To force players into a specific craft in the name of "flavor" detracts tremendously from the game because it forces people to weigh their will to craft what they want and would enjoy producing versus what will make them competitive in PvP... bad scenario... weighing decisions like this is exactly what makes an RPG interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazorous Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 I got to rank 13 in Vanilla... Reckbomb was the easy way to go really, Rets 21/0/30 were good when geared, but the RNG was horrible with SoC (you either cleave the **** out of stuff or sit there bashing keyboard in frustration)... and engineering was a must really, I especially liked Divine Shield Death Ray combo, back then when DS was reducing attack speed and not damage. Bottom line, I really hope there won't be Engineering 2.0 here, it makes things really broken. Oh yeah, that's right, it was the Death Ray. I mistaken that for a Goblin rocket launcher, I meant the Death Ray. Yep, the good o' days. Reckbomb on a Rogue, after their stunlock, with an Arcanite Reaper was hilarious! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaidax Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 weighing decisions like this is exactly what makes an RPG interesting A good question would be if it actually IS having a choice or just an illusion of having a choice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDaniels Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 weighing decisions like this is exactly what makes an RPG interesting How is weighing what you want to do versus what you need to do to compete interesting or fun? People play games for fun, when you put things into the game that, by their very nature, make it more difficult for players to have fun wouldn't it follow that such a feature is bad as long as we accept games as a means by which to have fun. The ultimate goal is for players to be able to play how they want to play. If they have to make sacrifices that make it impossible for them to reach optimal enjoyment then something is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazorous Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 The ultimate goal is for players to be able to play how they want to play. If they have to make sacrifices that make it impossible for them to reach optimal enjoyment then something is wrong. Welcome to MMORPGs? If your raid/guild needs a healer moreso than your dps, you may have to sacrifice the optimal enjoyment of dps-ing and take a healing role for certain fights. Or if you aren't a healer and you're not needed, you won't go at all. Sacrifices do need to be made, and optimal enjoyment may not always be acquired, depending on your goals. That's a reality of MMORPGs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wenchery Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 If I remember correctly, the automatic I-Win in Vanilla WoW was not grenades - but the Tidal Stone trinket from the rare spawn in Arathi Highlands. Point is, consumables which have limited effects provide a slight advantage occasionally. Battleground PvP is rarely a one-on-one scenario. Grenades didn't make the difference back then, and they won't now. That being said... if there is a Tidal Stone type item in game.... that's what will be OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skrill Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 (edited) Engineering was only really OP in duels. Wasn't much of a factor in real PvP. (this is coming from a Rank 12 Engineering Rogue in Vanilla) Edited December 13, 2011 by skrill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foamslinger Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Have we talked about how you don't need to be Cybertech to use grenades yet? That seems like that answers the OPs question. As for the side convo, imo decisions SHOULD have consequences and having to weigh pros and cons of w/e choice IS fun. I thought WoW really fell off when they made decisions meaningless (every ability available to most classes, ability to swap from pve to pvp server, race changes, etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanash Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 (edited) Have we talked about how you don't need to be Cybertech to use grenades yet? but that would mean no crying and whining about something they haven't experienced first hand yet..... Seriously, this SWTOR 'community' really needs to manup, shut or grow up...preferably all 3 Edited December 13, 2011 by Vanash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyErvin Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 (edited) I'm split between biochem and cybertech, both look really nice. Both are probably equally good. I havent decided yet which one to go with on my first toon. They are the two PvP skills to chose from really imo, they are a buff to any class/spec, while most other skills seem centered around a certain class. edit: And you DO need to be a cybertech to use the really good nades, just like you need to be a biochem to use the really good buffs, pots and implants. Edited December 13, 2011 by SneakyErvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevenanceSLC Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Goin biochem for the medpacks and stims. Stim > Stealth > Maul at level 20 was amazing damage, just sayin. And to top it off the artifact versions are reusable. Good for PvE and PvP. Biochem - Bioanalysis - Diplomacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyErvin Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Goin biochem for the medpacks and stims. Stim > Stealth > Maul at level 20 was amazing damage, just sayin. And to top it off the artifact versions are reusable. Good for PvE and PvP. Biochem - Bioanalysis - Diplomacy Yarr! Thats what I'm planning on. I could consider myself a pothead or junkie for the addiction I have to healing pots, flasks and all other stuff in WoW. I have like 7 alchemists in WoW and I just love that prof. My second favorite is JC followed by engi and inscription. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantri Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 (edited) From what i have read there are 3 levels of Biochem items: Green which is the basic. Blue which gives an extra effect (healing has a HoT, buffs persist through death, better etc) Purple which is BoP (or requires biochem), reusable, but the same power as green. So the blue ones that everyone can use are still the best. Is it the same for Cybertech grenades? Edited December 13, 2011 by Quantri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WheelchairXL Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 All crafting professions should yield equal benefits as they do in WoW. Any serious pvp player has enchanting/jewelcrafting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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