- - How do you deal with Loot Niinja in a random pug LFG ?

[dprijadi]

in the coming of Patch 1.3's automatic groupe finder, how do you all deal with the loot sharing in such pug's ?

 

Do you allow Need roll for companion ?

 

Do you allow player to roll need on items not for his role (eg a Trooper Vanguard Tank rolling NEED on Crit/Aim Heavy Armour gear (when there is also a Trooper Commando DPS rolling NEED on the Same item) ?

 

Do you vote to kick the greedy type players ? even if he is the TANK or the HEALER ? and risk queueing again for new TANk/HEALER (thus losing time) ?

[SuperBoogly]

If those make believe video game items mean that much to someone, I figure thats all the poor fellow has in life, so I don't complain

[Duren_Col]

Back in the day of WoW if someone ninja'ed it was a huge deal. Said person would get the mark of shame be it reporting it to his guild or on general chat that person will be known for it. And if his guild didn't discipline him that guild would get shamed everyone almost always found out because it was repeated in general at Ironforge for hours.

 

Nowadays in WoW people would ninja or grief just to be jerks since there are no consequences.

 

****en cross server LFG....

[thomasgallant]

if someone ninjas.. either leave their group or kick them from yours.. pretty simple.

[Styxx]

Back in the day of WoW if someone ninja'ed it was a huge deal. Said person would get the mark of shame be it reporting it to his guild or on general chat that person will be known for it. And if his guild didn't discipline him that guild would get shamed everyone almost always found out because it was repeated in general at Ironforge for hours.

 

Nowadays in WoW people would ninja or grief just to be jerks since there are no consequences.

 

****en cross server LFG....

 

This can apply and is encouraged, since there won`t be a cross server LFG.

 

So, you will always group with your own server.. naming and shaming is always fun.

 

And to answer the OP : it may be a mistake and I will ask. If he is a jerk he gets insta kick and I`ll LFG in general for one more (and I don`t care of his role, because I can fill any of them).. so, no, he is not essential. I might lose 30 mins of my time in a day.. but it is a small price for adding yet another name to the Wall Of Shame.

[ZudetGambeous]

I guess it's too much to ask for them to upgrade the loot system from 1999 to today's standards?

 

Only let people use the "Need" button if the gear is designed for their class and armor type. Otherwise they shouldn't be able to need on it.

 

Also make any item you need on, BoP so it can't be sold or traded, eliminating the temptation all together.

 

2 simple fixes completely negate 99% of ninja's... Then it's just not a problem anymore.

[Sammm]

I started to pug since day one (December 16th 2011). I must pug for heroics and flashpoints about 3 times everyday. About 97% of puggers I've met only need for items their character actually needs. For the other 3% who keep needing for their companions (without asking for permission), for credits or to annoy the other players, I explain to them about the unwritten rules about Need.

 

If they don't change their behavior, I ask the other members if they want to keep him in the group. If not, I kick him, I put him in my ignore list and we find another player. If the ninja looter was really a total jerk, I inform his guild leader about it.

 

If they vote in favor of keeping the ninja looter, I respect the decision but I still put him in my ignore list after the end of the run. Surprisingly, I always had to kick a dpser. It was never the tank or the healer.

 

One of the things that the upcoming group finder will change is that we'll actually have an implemented Vote Kick system.

 

I think Bioware should only let players be able to need on gear their character actually needs.

Edited May 28, 2012 by Sammm

[Freor]

Well it's not even ninja looting to begin with. Ninjaing something is rather different than breaking artificial "rules" set by some random individuals.

 

Swtor is so full of entitled players claiming their right for certain loot that the best thing BW could do is go with a system currently in Diablo 3: everyone in the team gets their own random drop(s) that others cannot loot. Otherwise it's just endless whining how someone deserves something more than other. The OP already mentioned rolling for "off-spec", which with the introduction of field-respecs and multi-specs will become very common (are you seriously saying the nice chaps respeccing for heals to get teams going shouldnt be allowed to Need dps item for instance?)

[thomasgallant]

I guess it's too much to ask for them to upgrade the loot system from 1999 to today's standards?

 

Only let people use the "Need" button if the gear is designed for their class and armor type. Otherwise they shouldn't be able to need on it.

 

Also make any item you need on, BoP so it can't be sold or traded, eliminating the temptation all together.

 

2 simple fixes completely negate 99% of ninja's... Then it's just not a problem anymore.

 

the problem is that companions NEED armor too...is it right to say that someone cant need armor for their companions?? ( i disagree with the tought but playing devils advocate here a minute) companion gearing needs to be addressed in the need system.. maybe need for companion should be added that is higher on the scale than greed, but lower than need?

[Kthx]

in the coming of Patch 1.3's automatic groupe finder, how do you all deal with the loot sharing in such pug's ?

 

Live and let live. If it is important to you, put them on your ignore list and then move on.

Edited May 28, 2012 by Kthx

[thomasgallant]

Well it's not even ninja looting to begin with. Ninjaing something is rather different than breaking artificial "rules" set by some random individuals.

 

Swtor is so full of entitled players claiming their right for certain loot that the best thing BW could do is go with a system currently in Diablo 3: everyone in the team gets their own random drop(s) that others cannot loot. Otherwise it's just endless whining how someone deserves something more than other. The OP already mentioned rolling for "off-spec", which with the introduction of field-respecs and multi-specs will become very common (are you seriously saying the nice chaps respeccing for heals to get teams going shouldnt be allowed to Need dps item for instance?)

 

thats the style that guild wars adopted when they created their game.. each player gets their own loot..seemed to work ok. but how do you handle rare loot drops? it sucks to watch one player get every random rare loot drop during a dungeon... i saw it happen..it does suck..

[Scorpienne]

in the coming of Patch 1.3's automatic groupe finder, how do you all deal with the loot sharing in such pug's ?

 

Do you allow Need roll for companion ?

 

Do you allow player to roll need on items not for his role (eg a Trooper Vanguard Tank rolling NEED on Crit/Aim Heavy Armour gear (when there is also a Trooper Commando DPS rolling NEED on the Same item) ?

 

Do you vote to kick the greedy type players ? even if he is the TANK or the HEALER ? and risk queueing again for new TANk/HEALER (thus losing time) ?

 

Our guild has standard rules for looting etiquette, basically it's need for self only UNLESS you agree on a different plan ahead of time.

 

Loot ninjas are wretched. We actually keep The List, on our guild website, of people that you should not group with either because they're loot ninjas, because they grab your objectives when you're fighting mobs, or because they're abusive/jerks/gross in chat. I imagine that we're not the only guild that does this.

 

Our guild also has a standard policy that if someone is a loot or objective ninja, or abusive/jerky/gross in general chat, then they bring the player's name, legacy name, and guild name to our guild leader, who privately passes that information to the offending player's guild leader to do with as he or she sees fit. The few times that it's worked in the opposite direction (someone coming to our GL about a problem player) it's resulted in the GL doing what's needed to make amends and remediate or discipline the offending player.

 

 

Paige

Edited May 28, 2012 by Scorpienne

[thomasgallant]

Our guild has standard rules for looting etiquette, basically it's need for self only UNLESS you agree on a different plan ahead of time.

 

Loot ninjas are wretched. We actually keep The List, on our guild website, of people that you should not group with either because they're loot ninjas, because they grab your objectives when you're fighting mobs, or because they're abusive/jerks/gross in chat. I imagine that we're not the only guild that does this.

 

Our guild also has a standard policy that if someone is a loot or objective ninja, or abusive/jerky/gross in general chat, then they bring the player's name, legacy name, and guild name to our guild leader, who privately passes that information to the offending player's guild leader to do with as he or she sees fit. The few times that it's worked in the opposite direction (someone coming to our GL about a problem player) it's resulted in the GL doing what's needed to make amends and remediate or discipline the offending player.

 

 

Paige

 

 

while that is good, and i commend your guild for doing it.. the average guild never will..it isnt like we are brokering peace here between two guilds. the current state of players on mmos is one that didnt exist years ago in the majority.. i find that most players seem to lack the care for the MM part of the game unless they need a group. other than that the social aspect of the game of a guild is little more than a faster group finder. I like the fact that your guild has standards, but I am betting atleast once or twice you guys have been called elitest jerks by people:P

 

 

sadly the average player is no longer looking for a huge social grouping where they can chat and hang out.. they are looking for the fast leveling, fast play fast grouping that they can get being in a huge guild..

 

mmos have turned a corner and have become far less social then when I was younger...

[Freor]

thats the style that guild wars adopted when they created their game.. each player gets their own loot..seemed to work ok. but how do you handle rare loot drops? it sucks to watch one player get every random rare loot drop during a dungeon... i saw it happen..it does suck..

 

It's no different from seeing it drop and losing roll. They could also alter the drop-% in such a way that when "rare" item is rolled by the RNG, everyone in the team gets their own random rare item.

 

Another way to get this going in SWTOR is make the drops (mostly) tokens, and then let everyone trade them in to pick what they want. Everyone would either get the same amount of tokens, or the "general token" from boss etc would be rolled. In either way, noone would be entitled to anything, and there would be no fighting who deserves what.

[thomasgallant]

It's no different from seeing it drop and losing roll. They could also alter the drop-% in such a way that when "rare" item is rolled by the RNG, everyone in the team gets their own random rare item.

 

Another way to get this going in SWTOR is make the drops (mostly) tokens, and then let everyone trade them in to pick what they want. Everyone would either get the same amount of tokens, or the "general token" from boss etc would be rolled. In either way, noone would be entitled to anything, and there would be no fighting who deserves what.

 

both systems could work..but i doubt they would be willing to do an entire overhaul to their loot/drop system to accomodate it

[Styxx]

Well it's not even ninja looting to begin with. Ninjaing something is rather different than breaking artificial "rules" set by some random individuals.

 

Swtor is so full of entitled players claiming their right for certain loot that the best thing BW could do is go with a system currently in Diablo 3: everyone in the team gets their own random drop(s) that others cannot loot. Otherwise it's just endless whining how someone deserves something more than other. The OP already mentioned rolling for "off-spec", which with the introduction of field-respecs and multi-specs will become very common (are you seriously saying the nice chaps respeccing for heals to get teams going shouldnt be allowed to Need dps item for instance?)

 

Need for what spec you are at the time of the drop. At the very least ask if you can need for off-class. (jugg in tank spec at the time of the roll will pass or ask nice the marauder, which has every right to need for dps gear. Jugg in dps gear, in dps role, has every right to need for dps gear, but ask polite for tanking gear)

 

And what entitlement are you talking about? If there is only one BH in the group and an AIM loot based item dropped, all will pass / greed / dissasemble and the BH rolls need. Period.

 

We can debate all day long if the item is better or worse than its current, but it is his RIGHT to do so. You can ask politely if he would forfeit for one of your companions.

 

If there are 2 BH`s, one tank and one heal, the need is based on what type of item it is (absorb / def vs crit / power).

 

If there are 2 tanks, they`ll both roll need and the dice will decide.

 

What has entitlement got to do with anything?

Edited May 28, 2012 by Styxx

[Freor]

both systems could work..but i doubt they would be willing to do an entire overhaul to their loot/drop system to accomodate it

 

Yeah, very likely not. Not at this point. Then again, when more and more additions to the game (those multi-specs for example) are made that let people use more variety of gear, the pressure for them to add alternative becomes bigger after every "ninja post"

[chimex]

This subject is not always the easiest one to call. For example, if you had two maras in your group, if one wins an item whilst the other one does not, that does not make one of them a Ninja.

 

However, there ARE some clear cuts like if said Mara rolled NEED on a blaster. Then yes, that is a clear no-no.

 

On that tho, sometimes people roll for companions (I personally dislike this, but it has been argued by some that it is ok). Personally tho, I don't mind rolling for companions IF they take part. That said, it shouldnt be left for the group to say "ok, no companion rolls please" it should be left for the individual to ask "may i roll for x item for y companion?". Sometimes, simply asking before hand goes a long way.

 

The main issue here is assumption. You get your ***hats by all means, but 9/10 times it is that one player assumes one set of unspoken rules is ok, while others are on another set of unspoken rules. This is the main issue with pugs. Some people from one guild are familiar with rules of (using example above) that it is not ok to roll for companions, whilst a member of another guild may very well practice rolling for companions in their guilds on a regular basis. Maybe said person is a greenhorn to MMOs in general and has yet to learn a few dos and donts.

 

Altrhough I said above that a group shouldnt have to say "dont roll for companions", I admit that is an assumption from myself. I think stating your own individual ruleset before the FP/Ops will go a long way. If people do not agree, either come to an agreement, or leave. If you stay regardless of someone saying "I plan to roll that blaster" and they roll it, you were told this was the case, and you have yourself to blame for not turning away when this was clearly stated (although i admit, rolling on item x for companion y when a member of the group can use item x for themselves is a nasty thing to do).

 

If a group is split on a set of rules but they all plan to run the FP anyway, I personally belive a majority vote should get the final say. failing that (split 2v2) a /roll should be used. after that, no arguments.

 

That being said, if a person says im rolling blaster for companion x and the other 3 members state they do no wish this, AND the person agrees (but rolls for it anyway) then yes, this IS a clear cut case of Ninja looting.

 

If such a case occours, then yes it is time to name them on General chat on the fleet. If they are part of a guild, contact a member of their guild with a request to speak privately to a guild master (or closest online at that time). Explain your situation (politely, remember it wasnt the GM who took item x) and ask if this is common practice for their guild.

Remember, most good guild masters want to promote their guild. Having a member of their guild put them in negative light will not go down well. Especially if you are courtious enough to explain this issue in private with them and that the member has indeed shown a poor image of the guild.

 

I do not believe it is a matter for the CS tho. It is a matter for ourselves to chip at (as slowly as that may be). Yes, it takes a few minutes to hash out each persons expectations on Loot rules at the begining, but so be it. Personally, i'd rather spend 5-10 minutes going over what the group, as a whole feels is acceptable/unacceptabe than have a nasty suprise along the way.

 

On closing, if you know your reason to roll on x item is not common practice, ask before you do, or dont do it.

 

Chime x

[thomasgallant]

Yeah, very likely not. Not at this point. Then again, when more and more additions to the game (those multi-specs for example) are made that let people use more variety of gear, the pressure for them to add alternative becomes bigger after every "ninja post"

 

true but history has shown that devs kidna get stupid when people are demanding stuff... balances in swg nearly ruined the game... the fact that when this game went live people complained for more servers and they went overboard... caution must be taken tho:P

[Illyean]

simply change the loot mechanic, right now its some half assed attempt at a 19th century mechanism that everyone says is not working very well in anything other than 'perfect' groups, the horse is dead, stop beating it, get a new horse.

 

In any group there are different classes maybe more than 1 of each maybe none of certain classes. All loot (assume all for sake of this) is linked to some mob (boss x drops columini gloves, though it matters not) In stead of allowing anyone to roll anything on need/greed/pass have a group leader option to set better rules. Class item can only be rolled need by that class, for me, if there are 3 operatives drop 3 items for them.

 

Simply put this needs some simple and sensible design, people want to run FP's and OP's for fun and loot, ninja's should be held back by game mechanics but create rule sets that everyone can agree with up front when they join the group. A little smart design and use of BoE/BoP etc can resolve almost all of this.

[Freor]

true but history has shown that devs kidna get stupid when people are demanding stuff... balances in swg nearly ruined the game... the fact that when this game went live people complained for more servers and they went overboard... caution must be taken tho:P

 

Lol, very true

[Ratajack]

Need for what spec you are at the time of the drop. At the very least ask if you can need for off-class. (jugg in tank spec at the time of the roll will pass or ask nice the marauder, which has every right to need for dps gear. Jugg in dps gear, in dps role, has every right to need for dps gear, but ask polite for tanking gear)

 

And what entitlement are you talking about? If there is only one BH in the group and an AIM loot based item dropped, all will pass / greed / dissasemble and the BH rolls need. Period.

 

We can debate all day long if the item is better or worse than its current, but it is his RIGHT to do so. You can ask politely if he would forfeit for one of your companions.

 

If there are 2 BH`s, one tank and one heal, the need is based on what type of item it is (absorb / def vs crit / power).

 

If there are 2 tanks, they`ll both roll need and the dice will decide.

 

What has entitlement got to do with anything?

 

It can be considered an entitlement issue in when ANYONE starts to put restrictions on who can roll for what gear. Did you solo the mob that dropped the loot you for which you are rolling? If you want to determine who can roll by class/spec, what happens when our group can't find a healer and I respec my BH from DPS to heals so we can start/finish the instance. If a BH DPS piece drops are you going to tell me that I can't roll need because you are a BH DPS, and I am currently heal specced, despite the fact that I respecced only so we could finish?

 

When I pug, I will not roll need unless it is an upgrade for the character I'm playing. That said, this is they way I choose to play. I do not expect everyone else to play by the rules I set for myself.

 

I do not begrudge anyone in the group from rolling need on anything that drops. They were in the group that downed that mob/boss and therefore have just as much right to the loot as I do, whether that be for a companion, or even to vendor. The fact that the stats are bounty hunter stats and the player rolling need is a sniper does not mean my bounty hunter has any more right to it than the sniper.

 

Is it frustrating to see that item that I've been trying to get for run after run after run go to someone who cannot even use it? Yes, but those are the breaks, and I can always run the instance again, and I will get it eventually.

[Ujest]

Back in the day of WoW if someone ninja'ed it was a huge deal. Said person would get the mark of shame be it reporting it to his guild or on general chat that person will be known for it. And if his guild didn't discipline him that guild would get shamed everyone almost always found out because it was repeated in general at Ironforge for hours.

 

Nowadays in WoW people would ninja or grief just to be jerks since there are no consequences.

 

****en cross server LFG....

 

This is the most effective method of controlling this type of looter, used in EQ. HOWEVER, it is the Group/OPs Leader responsibility to clearly state the loot rules.

 

I would use:

Your Class Need before your alt's or companion's greed

Need only for toon in the group or OP. All other toons or companions you have are greed.

If no need then its a random roll greed.

No need or greed then it rots.

[GhoXen]

Always kick, simple as that. If the item is exceedingly rare or special, which is extremely unlikely, then I'd open a ticket if the person truly has no justifiable reason for rolling on it.

[johnduane]

There couldn't be any loot ninjas in SWTOR.

 

They only exist in games that have a x-server LFG tool.