Powertech Pyrotech deserve the HUGE nerf

[KBSIP]

I see what you're doing now.. You are now defending the PT by saying it's a team based game. So what happens when there is 3 PT's and one healer? How is that team worked assembled?

 

There is a reason why my server alone went from 1-2 PT's a WZ to 2-3 in weeks. Who needs survivability when you can have a dedicated healer and just melt who groups in 1 minute. I would much rather fight against 2 mara's then even one fully surged PT.

 

I'm done with this thread though. Blind will lead the blind and defend their class at all costs no matter how many times you contradict them.

 

There is video's of PT DPS PvP all over youtube and you can see them hitting a whole 3 button rotation w/ the occasional AoE DfO ability w/ relics.

 

youtube videos are unreliable, most of them are either outdated, intentionally clipped to remove demonstrations of proc starving, etc. most of those are desinged solely to show damage potential for the pyro DPS, which is high, because its a proc based tree. Threat gen for tank PT's can be through the roof if they get 100% procs. pretty much any proc reliant class can be beastly if it gets all its procs. its just that pyros are SO reliant on procs its kind of ridiculous. we have to proc to manage heat, proc to deal serious damage. I guarantee you, a proc starved pyro DPS is pretty much a giant sack of carried useless in 50 PVP.

[Sharee]

There is a time to be within 10m and a time to not... when you have your major rotation down, including dcd's... you stay away. It is called putting yourself in the best situation to win.

 

Says the pyrotech who can leave 10m range after getting his procs and still drop a huge burst from out there.

 

Go play a guardian and try to leave 10m range everytime you 'have your main rotation down' and see how well you do.

[Boromir]

I play Pyro PT , have done since launch. Full WH now 42% tech crit 78% surge. I do great damage ! + Bio med (although I use pvp heal stims)

1 vs 1 a good Assasin, concelment op, merauder and sniper wipe the floor with me. Can't kill a good healing op either.

Come to think of it a decent sorc who uses his snares and knockbacks is a real pain too.

 

if you not on fire (ops can cleanse this) I can't use rail shot if you 11m away I cant use flame burst...

 

The way I can really bump up my damage in wz is by using all my cool downs (relic, adrenal, explosive fuel) and use death from above on a group that are stupid enough not to move out of it. It will do between 3 and 9k damage to everyone stood in it !

 

People need to go duel other classes to learn how to fight them b4 demanding nerfs. And also realise that you can mod your stats to give you better dps above and beyond what you can get with just full WH. Any Class in WH gear will tear a nooby in the blue pvp appart.

 

Top Damage numbers in WZ mean nothing, I can be beating on a healer ops all game and get great numbers not that it help winning the wz ! Id rather stun lock him and hit him for 18k and kill him rather than hit him for 75k and watch him heal all the way though it ...

 

if the 4 people that play on Helm of graush want to duel me/check out gear, i'm more than happy to help

Edited June 4, 2012 by Boromir

[Jarfunkz]

Says the pyrotech who can leave 10m range after getting his procs and still drop a huge burst from out there.

 

Go play a guardian and try to leave 10m range everytime you 'have your main rotation down' and see how well you do.

 

You can jump turn better with guardians, especially with their limitless snare. I have a 50 guardian, yah defensive spec won't yield damage, but I really like 11-0-30... 2 defensive cooldowns and powerbomb template decimates enemies quite easily.

 

I busted out 500k damage on my guardian in recruit gear plus bm sabre. It doesn't really matter what class I am, I will always look op.

 

I thought go play and learn to play was my line.

[Agooz]

You do realize that the majority of classes have to stay within 10m of their target to function, right?

 

Snipers/GS, Mercs/Commandos, Sorc/Sage, Operative Healers that can stay outside of 10m. THEN you got Tank Juggs/Guardians, Tank Assassins/Shadows, Tank PTs/VG, any Marauders/Sent either have the defenses or the CDs to greatly reduce a Pyro's damage.

 

So actually it is quite the opposite of what you are saying. The majority of the classes either should kite or stay out of the 10m range, or equipped with enough CDs/Defense/abilities to mitigate a Pyro's damage and eliminate him.

 

If you are any of these ACs and CONSTANTLY dying to a Pyro PT, then the problem is obviously you.

[Fdzzaigl]

Yes its situational just like all aoe, but if you aren't using sticky/MV/pulse cannon when people are grouped you're missing out since thats amazing burst dmg on all targets for only 3 abilities plus it doesnt hurt your single target burst rotation cept for AP.

 

Obviously MV / pulse.

The times when AP isn't used immediately when it is off cooldown to warrant a sticky grenade to be thrown into a group are rare. I still keep it on my bars, but it's about a 1/20 occurrence.

 

@Operative complaints: operatives are a stealth class that were able to knock you down (and stun you afterward) out of stealth while executing their burst, AND restealth and heal themselves afterward, valid comparison? No. + in those days surge hadn't been nerfed.

 

In these days, health is low and expertise plays a massive role in increasing damage.

Defenses need to be buffed across the board, except for "certain" classes. And this is something people have been saying from when they first hit 50. Instead, BW has lowered the TTK.

"Fights take a while to complete in PvP", was a big phrase back before launch, look where that has gone.

 

But if PT / VG is nerfed because it does too much with too little buttons, then for the love of it: GIVE ME MORE BUTTONS / STUFF to do the same, we even have abilities like explosive round that sit unused on the bars of both vanguards and commandos.

I like using tons of little mechanics to be successful, but instead, the genious solutions in this thread just want to destroy all 3 specs of the class by nerfing core vanguard abilities into the ground.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Fdzzaigl

[Twor]

Says the pyrotech who can leave 10m range after getting his procs and still drop a huge burst from out there.

 

Go play a guardian and try to leave 10m range everytime you 'have your main rotation down' and see how well you do.

 

And pray, what do we do for this huge burst once our "main rotation" is done and we leave 10m (this implies that everything is on CD...) ? Spam our default attack?

[Floegens]

Is this thread still going...

This discussion is a huge joke. If i did not put up massive amounts of dmg per WZ, there would be absolutely no reason at all for me to be in our premades (rated even more). People in my guild just laugh about this thread, everyone of us knows that Assault VGs cant do **** apart from doing single target burst every 2 mins and putting up huge dmg numbers, otherwise being very squishy, having no "get the *** out option", lacking the group buffs of Sentinels, etc.

I cant carry the ball. I cant stealth to doors in voidstar. Im no good node deffing class in civil war. All i do is dmg in a group setting. And in this role, were not better than Sentinels or Gunslingers. Just like it should be.

 

I cant take all the whine of people seriously that just got crushed by one.

We play on one of the only two heavily populated servers worldwide, TOFN, and i guess its fair to say that this is the hardest, best geared competition apart from the fatman, and in this kind of balanced environment (skill/gearwise, the majority of opponents we face is war hero) you really can see what classes are capable of.

Just because there is one good Powertech on your PVE server doesnt mean hes overpowered.

 

PS: We have a very good Sentinel and 2 very good Gunslingers in our guild, and we constantly switch top dmg in WZs between us 4. DPS classes do DPS. More news at 11.

Edited June 21, 2012 by Artthen
language

[Ewgal]

Sigh, this is where Powertech fanbois are trying to confuse the issue.

 

I don't think anyone is suggesting that Powertech should be altered detrimentally in PvE, just that some of their abilities should be toned down for PvP, e.g. putting a short cast time on some abilities so you can interrupt them. At the moment you have to cc the Pyro you can't interrupt as everything is instant.

 

Oh and before you write that classes like Sorc are all instant, no they aren't you can interrupt lightning strike in PvP!

Edited June 4, 2012 by Ewgal

[Fdzzaigl]

Sigh, this is where Powertech fanbois are trying to confuse the issue.

 

I don't think anyone is suggesting that Powertech should be altered detrimentally in PvE, just that some of their abilities should be toned down for PvP, e.g. putting a short cast time on some abilities so you can interrupt them. At the moment you have to cc the Pyro you can't interrupt as everything is instant.

 

Oh and before you write that classes like Sorc are all instant, no they aren't you can interrupt lightning strike in PvP!

 

If you knew how PT / VG played, you would also know how those 2 statements completely and utterly contradict each other.

 

Because a PT / VG is basically a melee class in PvE (definitely as a tank) and is still a mostly "up in your face" class in PvP.

Even in the video of the 2 button guy you saw him being up close ALL the time.

 

Cast times = class dead, period

Edited June 4, 2012 by Fdzzaigl

[Frostbyt]

Sigh, this is where Powertech fanbois are trying to confuse the issue.

 

I don't think anyone is suggesting that Powertech should be altered detrimentally in PvE, just that some of their abilities should be toned down for PvP, e.g. putting a short cast time on some abilities so you can interrupt them. At the moment you have to cc the Pyro you can't interrupt as everything is instant.

 

Oh and before you write that classes like Sorc are all instant, no they aren't you can interrupt lightning strike in PvP!

 

uh so how you going to nerf PvP and not pve? If we had short cast times we'd be mercs

[Twor]

Sigh, this is where Powertech fanbois are trying to confuse the issue.

 

I don't think anyone is suggesting that Powertech should be altered detrimentally in PvE, just that some of their abilities should be toned down for PvP, e.g. putting a short cast time on some abilities so you can interrupt them. At the moment you have to cc the Pyro you can't interrupt as everything is instant.

 

Oh and before you write that classes like Sorc are all instant, no they aren't you can interrupt lightning strike in PvP!

 

Sigh all those Nerherders who are trying to confuse the issue.

 

If you don't understand that the Pyro is a class balanced around instant abilities, dealing burst damage and having a very low defense on the other hand, than you haven't read more than 3 posts in this thread.

 

By suggesting to add a cast time you proof that point. Look back a few pages, there you will see why that is something only someone who doesn'T understand class desgn would say. Its also very tyering to have people post things like you did- who have not bothered to read this thread and put in comparisions that have been declaed ridicioulous a few times before.

 

So instead of insulting people read the thread and than come back when you have any arguments.

[Ewgal]

Powertech/Vanguard are classes that can spec to tank, while dps tree lack this the gear still makes the class hard to kill.

 

I was simply pointing out that by putting some of the melee attacks on a short cast timer you would give the opponent a chance to interrupt.

[Twor]

Powertech/Vanguard are classes that can spec to tank, while dps tree lack this the gear still makes the class hard to kill.

 

I was simply pointing out that by putting some of the melee attacks on a short cast timer you would give the opponent a chance to interrupt.

 

Yes and you would kill the class. As we pointed out a few pages before this. The Vanguard is a class that is nearly always in movement. Frontline fighter etc etc. Want to add a cast timer for its main attacks? You only need to rework the complete class for it than.

Imagine an OP without stealth. Or a sage without range. Being mobile is the very core of the Classdesign.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Twor

[Dmasterr]

uh so how you going to nerf PvP and not pve? If we had short cast times we'd be mercs

 

Challenge accepted.

 

The main problem with powertech is armor penetration and elemental damage. Change the elemental damage to tech, and make the 60% armor penetration talent work only on mobs.

 

 

[Fdzzaigl]

Challenge accepted.

 

The main problem with powertech is armor penetration and elemental damage. Change the elemental damage to tech, and make the 60% armor penetration talent work only on mobs.

 

 

 

The 60% armor penetration talent is in the tactics tree, so you're still nerfing another spec just to get at Assault

(and I might add, as spec which is still bugged a month after 1.2 and with hundreds of bug reports made about it).

 

And, you're still nerfing ion pulse for some reason, even though its damage is certainly not unreasonable for an attack of its type and all the other specs also depend on it greatly.

 

Start with raising the TTK in general, see how Assault does then.

Or rework the entire tree.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Fdzzaigl

[Ewgal]

Yes and you would kill the class. As we pointed out a few pages before this. The Vanguard is a class that is nearly always in movement. Frontline fighter etc etc. Want to add a cast timer for its main attacks? You only need to rework the complete class for it than.

Imagine an OP without stealth. Or a sage without range. Being mobile is the very core of the Classdesign.

 

No you wouldn't I think changing one dmg instant cast ability to one where the ability had a short cast time or was channeled would more clearly define the role of Powertech dps.

 

If Bioware changed one of your 10m abilities that way then you would be ranged specialist, but still useful at melee range, and if they did it to one of your ranged abilities then it would be vice versa. Improving dps specialisation and balance is key to PvP.

 

To use your argument Sorc are great at range and not so good at melee distance, yet Powertech can do both? That is just fuzzy logic to me...Bioware need to tone them down.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Ewgal

[Twor]

No you wouldn't I think changing one dmg instant cast ability to one where the ability had a short cast time or was channeled would more clearly define the role of Powertech dps.

 

If Bioware changed one of your 10m abilities that way then you would be ranged specialist, but still useful at melee range, and if they did it to one of your ranged abilities then it would be vice versa. Improving dps specialisation and balance is key to PvP.

 

To use your argument Sorc are great at range and not so good at melee distance, yet Powertech can do both? That is just fuzzy logic to me...Bioware need to tone them down.

 

Our 10m ability is the only ability that is in any way spamable- beside our default attack. We don't have several 10m abilities, we have one (and Pulse cannon but thats wow- what you want a channeled cast!!). It is also the core abilitie to apply the dot (so we can hip) and to reset the hip CD.

And your idea of ranged specialist. Err... Commando. Like I said, class design and what class is meant for what...

 

Just leave it you obvisouly don't know enough about the class and its design.

 

And your last part shows that you didn't understand what I wrote. The other one that you don't even know about what abilities you are talking about.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Twor

[ComeAndSee]

The 60% armor ignore talent for High Impact Bolt is NOT overpowered. The talent is necessary to make that ability effective against higher armored players.

 

I play a Shield Spec. Vanguard, my two highest DPS abilities are Stockstrke (30% crit bonus -- kinetic damage) and High Impact Bolt (60% armor ignore -- kinetic). My High Impact bolt only crits in the 1.5-3.5k range depending on the armor of my opponents and it has a 15 second cooldown. If I didn't have that 60% armor ignore than it would hit for laughable amounts of damage. Also, high impact bolt hits harder on higher armor players than my Stockstrike that has 30% crit dmg bonus.

 

High Impact Bolt becomes overpowered when you have 90% armor ignore, 30% critical damage bonus, +15% bonus damage talented, and its usable every 6-9 seconds.

Edited June 4, 2012 by ComeAndSee

[Agooz]

Oh and before you write that classes like Sorc are all instant, no they aren't you can interrupt lightning strike in PvP!

 

No no one will say they are like Sorc. Because pyro cant Bubble, cant speed run over hazards, cant kill someone from range, dont have extrication/rescue for easy HB wins. Why do you people ALWAYS attribute class balance to damage output?! There is more to balance than just burst and damage.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Agooz

[Agooz]

To use your argument Sorc are great at range and not so good at melee distance, yet Powertech can do both? That is just fuzzy logic to me...Bioware need to tone them down.

 

No, it's just YOU with the fuzzy logic. Because balancing classes EXCLUSIVELY on their damage output is the most ridiculous idea I have ever heard. Unless you want to give EVERY class the SAME exact Utilities/CCs/Survivability/CDs.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Agooz

[Eszi]

The 60% armor ignore talent for High Impact Bolt is NOT overpowered. The talent is necessary to make that ability effective against higher armored players.

I want 60% armor ignore on my biggest hitting attack too, because it's not effective against higher armored players ;_;

Oh, and a perma slow

And heavy armor

And no resource managment

And a tanking stance

And shield generator

And instatnly re-appliable dot

And taunts

And a pull

I could mention the 25% damage reduction shield too, but let's make it our little secret.

 

I can haz pl0x?

[LiveandDieinLA]

It's 90% not 60. If you run assault you take the 60% talent from the middle tree and the 30% talent from the right tree.

[ComeAndSee]

I want 60% armor ignore on my biggest hitting attack too, because it's not effective against higher armored players ;_;

Oh, and a perma slow

And heavy armor

And no resource managment

And a tanking stance

And shield generator

And instatnly re-appliable dot

And taunts

And a pull

I could mention the 25% damage reduction shield too, but let's make it our little secret.

 

I can haz pl0x?

 

Oh you.

Edited June 4, 2012 by ComeAndSee

[tynt]

i want my hidden strike and backstab to have 90% armor pen too!! =)