Tenceriker Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) The thing you're forgetting is... SW:ToR keeps "re-releasing" all over the place. This causes a surge in subscriptions that will offset the numbers of actually lost. If 1 million people unsub, and the re-release the game again in EU/OZ/ASIA "versions" that will highly offset the loss of players on, lets say, the NA servers. I'm going to guess that there were 2.2 million (mostly) NA players on Dec 13 of last year. Right now, there are probably 1/10 of that actually still playing. Players have either migrated off, or quit, or rerolled. Then they release another launch version of the game in a different region. If they lose 1 million NA players in the first 3 months (they probably did) but 500,000 OZ's join, it only looks like they lost "500k subs". I can tell you one thing. If NA player numbers drop, so will the player numbers in Asia. Same reason why most players in WoW are in China. WoW has about the same number of actual players as SW:ToR did on launch, however, servers seem to dead now because actual players are no longer playing. SWTOR is re-releasing and still losing enough players to lose 400,000 subscribers. As the August update will prove Bioware is moving too slow to patch up the holes on the sinking ship. When even the last great server is having population declines you should be able to read the writing on the wall. Edited May 23, 2012 by Parali rude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) Looks like our community manager was one of those let go Stephen Reid @Rockjaw I was one of those affected by layoffs at BioWare Austin yesterday. I got to build an amazing team while I was there, and miss them already. Expand Best of luck SR Yep, he's tweeting: Stephen Reid @Rockjaw I'm also going to miss #SWTOR and the community we created. Sure, I know some of you hated me, but hey, I still worked hard for you. LOL!! And: Stephen Reid @Rockjaw Last but not least: I was quiet for the last couple of weeks because I was full-on devoted to #SWTOR character transfer. It's still coming! Edited May 23, 2012 by JeramieCrowe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenceriker Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Yep, he's tweeting: LOL!! And: And this is why he lost his job! Tweeting instead of posting on the GAME FORUMS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 And this is why he lost his job! Tweeting instead of posting on the GAME FORUMS! Should be both, although he probably can't post here atm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suromir Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) honestly. GOOD. BioWare needs a kick in the arse...their quality has tanked and perhaps they need to learn that you can't be cheap or cut the corners they're cutting. it started with ME2. was an abortion in DA2...and now SWTOR. - pathetically amateurish bugs that quite frankly are insulting..that they never seem to be able to fix. - lazy design decisions to cut corners (like on-rails space) - utterly pathetic and buggy Auction (GTN) system that doesn't work - no LFG tool and when they finally are putting one in they have idiotic claims that it hurts community and/or the game (yah it REALLY hurt WoW didn't it..and Rift..Rift didn't benefit tremendously from it /sarcasm) These people are the same that claim population is ok, subs weren't loss, layoffs are a good thing, and the game is problem free. - incompetent coding..I know I mentioned bugs already but...sound issues still not fixed..companion bugs...class quest stopping bugs (namely with cover or a boss being in plain sight yet it tells you you can't see them) - server population problems that they are taking their sweet time addressing even though they already have server transfers to the new Pacific servers..(this one is stupid as can be..if they can x-fer people then..they can x-fer people NOW). - touting "fully voiced" MMO when most of it is Alien gibberish on NPC's that it makes no sense just to (once again) cut corners (I'm looking at you moronic Chiss on Hoth for empire questlines to name just one group) - padding time in stupid ways....you're really making me run from Belsavis to Nar Shadaa just for a 5 second conversation/fight...then to Dromund Kaas for a 10 second convo..then back to fleet..then to......get it yet? yah it's stupid...stupid...stupid. - Ilum; while I may not be big on PvP the fact they REMOVED the Ilum quests instead of FIXING them is just another stupid decision and cut corner..way to go guys. that's why you make the big-bucks. - Shoddy "fixes" one of the smuggler class quest bosses was made SO YOU CAN'T LOSE becaue they were too LAZY to FIX it. and there are MANY MAAAANY more issues. quite frankly the ENTIRE dev team needs replaced. Sadly I'm sure the layoffs were just the grunts. E.A. needs to take this further and start replacing incompetence with competence. I like the game enough to keep paying and playing...but the issues above, if not addressed, will drive even me off (I am actually VERY forgiving despite not liking a lot of things about the game). If you ask me there weren't enough lay-offs done. This game is going to end up like Vanguard (running but not updated) or one of the many F2P games with cash shops if something isn't done about the people in charge and their "wonderful" decisions. Edited May 23, 2012 by Suromir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikedee Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 And this is why he lost his job! Tweeting instead of posting on the GAME FORUMS! I mean it takes 2 mins to let us know when to expect something? Not like they reply to people that reply to their posts. I don't like how this looks for us ranked wz's/8 man q's update 2.7 now....wait that was the same before people got fired. Just got rid of the people not doing their jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blavatsky Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Should be both, although he probably can't post here atm... you've really gotta stop posting here so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islander Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Damn. I guess I get to unfollow him now. His twitter was like the official forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomanka Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Stephen reid got laid off. /salute. He was a good man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trenter Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 The level of denial in this thread is astounding. I guess I shouldn't be surprised though. This type of behavior has been going on since forever. People brought up a ton of issues in the beta. "lolz, it's only beta" was copy/pasted from thread to thread. People complained about a ton of bugs. "The game is only X weeks/months old" they said. People complained about the poor engine optimization. "It must be you, I have no problems" we were told. People complained about the lack of features. "You have unrealistic expectations" they laughed. People complained about the content being paper thin. "Entitlement generation strikes again" they mocked. People complained about the meaningless crafting. "The crafting is revolutionary" they insisted. People complained about the linear design. "The linear design is a feature" they laughed. People complained about the server populations dropping. "Server population is growing" they claimed. People complained about the Ranked Warzone fiasco. "This was not a bait and switch" they argued. People complained about the direction of the game. "Nothing is wrong, the game is fine" they implored. People complained about the lack of open world PvP. "If you don't like it, leave" they ordered. People cited the drop in subs as proof that something was amiss. "The subs haven't dropped" they maintained. People cited other games that shared a similar path. "This game doesn't have those problems" they asserted. People cited layoffs as an indication of trouble. "Layoffs could be good for this game" they pleaded. People left the game in droves. "Where did everyone go?" they wondered. Just take a look at your post for a while. People complained People complained People complained People complained People complained People complained On and on... People complained about everything. Sometimes the complaints were valid. Sometimes the complaints were completely stupid. In my very honest opinion, this game never deserved half the crap that was thrown at it. Your post just looks so sad. This is the MMORPG genre now. No patience. And this will carry on to the next big thing. And the next after that. Worn down by complaints and no patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenceriker Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Damn. I guess I get to unfollow him now. His twitter was like the official forums No need, if you liked him I am sure he will have some insight for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islander Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Stephen reid got laid off. /salute. He was a good man. I agree with this. He'll catch on somewhere else. I do worry that layoffs will not be 'replaced' with more. I guess that's the long term question. Bioware's failed at producing what's needed with X people, I know they can't produce it with X- 20%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islander Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 No need, if you liked him I am sure he will have some insight for you. Probably not, last thing he'll want to do is violate his NDA he's got with Bioware. It's not like he can drop private knowledge now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 you've really gotta stop posting here so much. No thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suromir Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Probably not, last thing he'll want to do is violate his NDA he's got with Bioware. It's not like he can drop private knowledge now. well perhaps that's the problem. instead of communicating with the community on THE COMMUNITY FORUMS..he was more worried about his tweets. don't do your job, don't expect to keep it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenceriker Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) Just take a look at your post for a while. People complained People complained People complained People complained People complained People complained On and on... People complained about everything. Sometimes the complaints were valid. Sometimes the complaints were completely stupid. In my very honest opinion, this game never deserved half the crap that was thrown at it. Your post just looks so sad. This is the MMORPG genre now. No patience. And this will carry on to the next big thing. And the next after that. Worn down by complaints and no patience. And all of the complaints listed that you quoted were valid. This game deserved everything thrown at it because back in BETA -> LAUNCH we were screaming about things that needed to be fixed and were ignored or drowned out by the fanboys. Then everything we said is slowly becoming true. This is the real MMO genre is having problems, they don't listen to the detractors enough and are too quick to assume they know best. First rule of customer service, the customer is always right and wrong because it takes both to get to the root of an issue. MMOs would do well to learn this and apply it. well perhaps that's the problem. instead of communicating with the community on THE COMMUNITY FORUMS..he was more worried about his tweets. don't do your job, don't expect to keep it. Amen to that brother. Edited May 23, 2012 by Tenceriker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oredith Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) This is the MMORPG genre now. No patience. And this will carry on to the next big thing. And the next after that. Worn down by complaints and no patience. WoW came onto the scene when people were kinda tired of available MMO, SWG was definitely dead, EQ wasn't all that exciting anymore. WoW wasn't very good at launch, but it was just good enough, to be better than the competition, and they grew from there. ToR's release timing was ALMOST as good as WoW. people were mostly getting tired of WoW after so many years. there were also a bunch of fairly polished MMOs (rift, for example) that just never really got traction. however, this isn't 2005, and game consumers (that would be us) have different expectations. it's not a matter of patience, but expectation. when you go buy a car, would you pay market price on a luxury car, that didn't have luxury items, and told you to just be patient, it's coming? no, you would walk off the lot, and go to the next dealership that sold luxury cars that ACTUALLY had luxury features. what you're describing (and in truth, much of what this forum is exhibiting) is un-reasonable appeasement due to loyalty to a marquee. It's like those FIAT/Alpha Romeo guys, they all know the car is crap, but they are still loyal to it. Edited May 23, 2012 by oredith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celwinn Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 And this is why he lost his job! Tweeting instead of posting on the GAME FORUMS! You do realize with him tweeting, it'll be posted on the forums in less then 2 seconds right? He's killing two stones at once (Tweets and forums) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oredith Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) You do realize with him tweeting, it'll be posted on the forums in less then 2 seconds right? He's killing two stones at once (Tweets and forums) repost of his tweets don't appear on dev tracker. so really, he's NOT "killing two stones at once". more accurate description would be, it's his job to kill birds, but instead, he's throwing a lot of stones (but not at birds), and hoping for someone else to pick up the stone he's already tossed, and actually killing a bird with it. Edited May 23, 2012 by oredith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 And all of the complaints listed that you quoted were valid. This game deserved everything thrown at it because back in BETA -> LAUNCH we were screaming about things that needed to be fixed and were ignored or drowned out by the fanboys. Then everything we said is slowly becoming true. This is the real MMO genre is having problems, they don't listen to the detractors enough and are too quick to assume they know best. First rule of customer service, the customer is always right and wrong because it takes both to get to the root of an issue. MMOs would do well to learn this and apply it. It's kinda like throwing a handful of rocks at someone. Don't even have to aim. Pretty much guaranteed one or two are going to hit. I was there during beta. Half the stuff people QQ'd about never came true. But, enough stones were thrown that the few that hit made them all feel so justified. It's the pessimist's credo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocNessMonster Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 well perhaps that's the problem. instead of communicating with the community on THE COMMUNITY FORUMS..he was more worried about his tweets. don't do your job, don't expect to keep it. You have to worry about your tweets, they get paid to spam twitter to the rest of us. Do you think anyone really checks news on a website that is confined to 144 characters? Get real, the only people that use twitter are pre-teen Ashton Kutcher fans (he is most likely getting paid to sell us twitter also). Remember the customers are just the product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celwinn Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 repost of his tweets don't appear on dev tracker. so really, he's NOT "killing two stones at once". more accurate description would be, it's his job to kill birds, but instead, he's throwing a lot of stones (but not at birds), and hoping for someone else to pick up the stone he's already tossed, and actually killing a bird with it. You still got the information correct? It came from his twitter account right? Bam. Killed 2 birds with 1 stone. Doesn't matter if it shows up on the Dev Tracker. The information still got out by Stephen himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rammur Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Layoff are not that big of a deal for the game so far all ive seen were mainly the pr guys and directors all they were really needed for was for the release so like any company out there not just mmo's they release the people they didnt really need all the people needed to make the wheels turn are still there and the game will continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oredith Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 You still got the information correct? It came from his twitter account right? Bam. Killed 2 birds with 1 stone. Doesn't matter if it shows up on the Dev Tracker. The information still got out by Stephen himself. legal accountability. when it is posted on official forum, by an official, it's legally binding. when it's posted by someone on their personal social network, mixed in among all his other misc tweets, it's useless. and someone who doesn't read EVERY post, will miss his retweets. you are obviously a fanboi and no amount of reason will convince you, so, we'll just have to both agree that you're wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DecanAndersen Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 The level of denial in this thread is astounding. I guess I shouldn't be surprised though. This type of behavior has been going on since forever. People brought up a ton of issues in the beta. "lolz, it's only beta" was copy/pasted from thread to thread. People complained about a ton of bugs. "The game is only X weeks/months old" they said. People complained about the poor engine optimization. "It must be you, I have no problems" we were told. People complained about the lack of features. "You have unrealistic expectations" they laughed. People complained about the content being paper thin. "Entitlement generation strikes again" they mocked. People complained about the meaningless crafting. "The crafting is revolutionary" they insisted. People complained about the linear design. "The linear design is a feature" they laughed. People complained about the server populations dropping. "Server population is growing" they claimed. People complained about the Ranked Warzone fiasco. "This was not a bait and switch" they argued. People complained about the direction of the game. "Nothing is wrong, the game is fine" they implored. People complained about the lack of open world PvP. "If you don't like it, leave" they ordered. People cited the drop in subs as proof that something was amiss. "The subs haven't dropped" they maintained. People cited other games that shared a similar path. "This game doesn't have those problems" they asserted. People cited layoffs as an indication of trouble. "Layoffs could be good for this game" they pleaded. People left the game in droves. "Where did everyone go?" they wondered. Haha, funny. Sadly true. I think you could even have made it larger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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