Claymaniac Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Yep this game is dead or about to be. I wish in the future gaming companies would lean more towards sandbox themed MMO's rather than to these gimped down, mainstreamed, doomed to fail themepark MMO's that are aimed for "I wan't everything now!!!1 herp derp" generation of gamers. So less selfishness and thinking about only money and more making an actually GOOD games in the future please. What sandbox MMO has been anywhere close to as successful as theme park MMOs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggomy Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 What's a "successful" MMO in your eyes? Only WoW? I ask honestly so I know which ones to provide for you. So instead of naming one you want to play semantics. I get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skorz Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) What sandbox MMO has been anywhere close to as successful as theme park MMOs? Big numbers don't make a game successful. Quality over quantity is the way to go. That goes to people too and what kind of people these themepark games attract more? Yes I am stereotyping and yes I am speaking my mind, I don't care. Edited May 23, 2012 by Skorz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelinCarnate Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) What's a "successful" MMO in your eyes? Only WoW? I ask honestly so I know which ones to provide for you. So instead of naming one you want to play semantics. I get it. And instead of answering the question you dodge it and poke fun at the person who asked. Edited May 23, 2012 by HelinCarnate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertszak Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Well, judging from Stephen Reid's LinkedIn page, we've lost him for starters. Because really, what MMO needs a community manager eh? Never did care for him ever since he said that we 'misunderstood' him for there being a grace period for pre-ordered physical copies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Karsk Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 No idea, but I honestly hope he's on his way out, same with Gabe. Georg is completely out of touch with the PVP community and common sense, when stubbornly insists on saying it's a great trade off for tank stats to only be effective against 2 of the 8 ACs in the game, despite community protests. This is a great example of why how BioWare only did what they wanted, they never engaged the community in extensive discussion on why they kept it the way they did nor did they allow the opportunity for general community feedback to influence designs. Also in regards to metrics. Metrics isn't worth anything if the people reading the data are incapable of interpreting it properly. Take the active population decline for example. During the Guild Summit, BioWare Austin claimed that everything was ok because subscription levels hasn't dropped off, but concurrent activity has. Concurrent activity is people that are actively playing the game, which in terms influences other players enjoyment since that's what a MMO is all about. This was either a case of shameless positive spinning, inability to interpret crucial data properly, or both. However I honestly believe it was the former, instead of the latter two. It's all of this that makes me shake my head when people are bashing EA for SWTOR's failure. I don't have much love for EA, myself, they really screwed up some of my favourite games too like BF3 not being moddable in order to shove DLCs down players throat. However I'm a player who has played SWTOR since closed beta last year. I've seen how BioWare had used their time. I've seen how their tight lipped policy, and refusal to regularly engage the community niches in-depth discussion both during closed beta and release has come to bite them in their rear end. Lack of communication and hubris was what contributely mostly to SWTOR's current situation. SWTOR might have been released early, but I was in closed beta. Dialogue errors and game play bugs that persisted build after build after build all the way into release, and existing even now, are still here. Inane changes to things that were nearly universally praised as being popular were changed on a whim. Did you know that you could've literally modded ANY gear you wanted in the game, there were no "orange" gear. If you liked the look from your green gear, you could've kept it. Did you know there was the hoodless version of the Jedi Battlelord gear in closed beta that was inexplicably taken out 2 builds before release? I certainly don't believe EA forced BioWare to do all that. They did that themselves. Heck, nearly a year (since I was championing for Jedi Guardian gear that didn't have hoods well in closed beta) after all is said and done, my Jedi Guardian is still forced to wear a hood! The technology is already there with the Twi'lek toggle toggle, but yet they claim otherwise. Why the heck am I still forced to wear a hood despite people begging for some variance? Why is BioWare saying, "Hey, we get that you don't like our designs, but we're still going to use the mistakes that we've built for the next few contents until we use them all up -AND THEN- get back on track"? Why didn't they say, "Ok, we get that you guys don't like it. We'll start making some new designs, yes it'll take more money, yes it'll take more development time, but we're going to show you we're not dragging our feet when it comes to improving ourselves"? Did EA tell BioWare to drag their feet around, or not communicate with the community? I honestly don't think so. The only thing EA did was release SWTOR too early, but even then the development progress during closed beta was pathetically slow. Do I love EA? Hell no. Do I know that they've destroyed other games? Heck yes. Do I think they were the prime reasons why BioWare Austin dropped the ball on SWTOR? Absolutely not. I have eyes, I had the opportunity to have more perspective on their development cycle due to being in closed beta. SWTOR largely ended up in the state it is now because of BioWare Austin itself. Well said and all true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamus_Divinus Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) Blizzard is about 10000 times bigger than Bioware. So them laying off 600 people is like Bioware laying off the janitor. Every post of yours seems to be filled with hyperbole and little else. Any chance you know how to discuss without gross exaggerations involved? Or is the 'make stuff up, exaggerate it 1000% to get point across' the only way discussion is done these days? All we know is that some staff have been let go. Some staff. For all you know it's NOT ONE developer but just some marketting people (SR included) who were let go. Actually don't bother as I doubt you're interested in calming down and seeing what facts actually surface....nah...Pitchforks and plenty more hyperbole please Leggomy!!! OT, it could be worrying or standard practise post launch. It depends on WHO got cut and I think everyone on this thread secretly knows that. Ah why am I bothering? Hyperbole and hysterical doomsaying are much more sexy. Carry on by all means Edited May 23, 2012 by Jamus_Divinus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoL-K-Noob Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 What sandbox MMO has been anywhere close to as successful as theme park MMOs? Eve Online Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maulfly Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) Well, if this is in any way accurate, it wouldn't seem to bode well for content development and bug fixes...though chances are they made sure to squeeze out all the content for the rest of the year before dropping everyone. Take it for what it's worth. Just from what I saw around the net and such, I know the layoffs were widespread and hitting several departments (not just QA, but writers, video directors, people who had worked on the stuff for this coming up E3, and so on), so that's not new info. That EA may have lost faith in the game due to their bottom line and that people question BW's ability to create and manage a MMO is nothing that hasn't come up in this thread already. Only time (and some investigative reporting) will tell if the scope of the downsizing prove to be true or if they were just blowing off steam. As much as Austin prides itself on luring tech businesses to the city, I'm sure this will be followed closely locally...especially if the layoff numbers do turn out to be huge. As pointed out earlier in this thread, EA/BioWare only just months ago had a big huge press thing at the Austin studio to talk about how they were going to bring hundreds of jobs TO Austin. To turn around and lay off so many so soon after having Gov Perry touring the studio for photo ops, someone's going to be curious about why there was such an about face. Edited May 23, 2012 by Maulfly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediElf Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I know this makes some people happy....and I don't understand why..... However I'm a fan of the game, and this makes me sad. I don't want to lose a game that I'm enjoying so much, I don't want SW:TOR to go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIKShock Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) Yep, 2nd most popular game in the West, completely dead ... Completely and utterly. I love the comments like those Edit: Oh noes... didn't have the quote you quoted. Something along the lines of the game is dying or is about to. Edited May 23, 2012 by CIKShock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddhalux Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 What's sad is that when I first saw the thread title my inner voice prayed that it was the entire art team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dezzi Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 What's sad is that when I first saw the thread title my inner voice prayed that it was the entire art team. People keep bringing up the art team, but it was said that BioWare outsourced much of the art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuscad Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 What's sad is that when I first saw the thread title my inner voice prayed that it was the entire art team. You too eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Karsk Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 What's sad is that when I first saw the thread title my inner voice prayed that it was the entire art team. Me too. They can go and work on wow. They will fit right in.We want star wars designs. We want out characters to look like they actually belong in the star wars universe ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure_Prower Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Eve Online If you call that a success. Hah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Me too. They can go and work on wow. They will fit right in.We want star wars designs. We want out characters to look like they actually belong in the star wars universe ! You mean like Darth Krayt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covrich Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 People losing their jobs is not nice news, no matter how strongly people feel for or against a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pompeia Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Like so many others, I'm more concerned about who has gone. Since Mythic was merged with Bioware, its hard to tell who was in fact from Bioware and who wasnt. If any member from KOTOR is gone, its very very bad. If anyone from the original Star Wars Galaxies was fired, its bad too. They had good ideas and could prove to be valuable assets. If it was Mythic people, for me they are not Bioware (and i never liked the idea of having them merged with it), they havent made any AAA title and personaly I was never impressed with their work. I'm pretty sure some other people is/was (Dark Age of Camelot is still considered a very good game by many), but this is just my opinion, and not ment has a personal attack to any developer team. Also, I'm very very very very concerned about the use and abuse of the Bioware brand. For example: "Known for Facebook RPGs like SuperHero City and Age of Champions, which EA says combine "in-depth storylines with high-quality graphics", KlickNation has been renamed BioWare Sacramento." Now, this isnt even Farmville developers. It toke several years of success for Bioware to raise the reputation to the point that "if its Bioware I buy". Only 2 other teams have it: Bethesda and Blizzard. By adding the Bioware name to any mediocre developer team, it doesnt raise that team up, it pushes the Bioware name down. And since I value the real Bioware products, I fear to see happening with Bioware the same that happened to Square Enix. Nobody (gamers) really cares anymore about what they do these days. So, please, please ... dont break apart the talented people at the real Bioware core (baldur's gate, kotor, jade empire, mass effect, dragon age - and I also like swtor, it still needs a lot of polishing but has great potential). I want a lot more of their quality games in the years to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) I do, however, find it interesting that BioWare Austin is currently hiring for QA and Marketing positions... Including CRM Manager. Perhaps "restructuring" was, indeed, the correct term to use. Edited May 23, 2012 by JeramieCrowe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fafryd Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Sorry some folks lost their jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maulfly Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) I do, however, find it interesting that BioWare Austin is currently hiring for QA and Marketing positions... Perhaps "restructuring" was, indeed, the correct term to use. So initial impression by wide spread cuts and what they're hiring for: focus on selling what they have and trying to perhaps get in some QA people that actually know how to do the job at least as well as any volunteer BETA tester, but not on expanding the content from what they currently have in the can? Edited May 23, 2012 by Maulfly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) So initial impression by wide spread cuts and what they're hiring for: focus on selling what they have and trying to perhaps get in some QA people that actually know how to do the job at least as well as any volunteer BETA tester, but not on expanding the content from what they currently have in the can? Not...exactly. No losses of devs, they said. That means work is still full speed ahead for content. And there is a LOT of content coming by the end of the year. However, even fanbois can't argue that QA has really sucked. Some of the bugs let through is ridiculous, the biggest one being the Legacy element that broke the server transfer software BioWare had ready since launch. That's a big one, because it's caused some major morale issues with players on low-pops, thus tainting every other issue they see with the game, which are normally minor annoyances, into straws that are breaking the camels' backs. Edited May 23, 2012 by JeramieCrowe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greuceanu Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Here is my dream scenerio: New top leaders walk-in the office Monday morning.... New Leaders: W T F have you guys been doing for 6 months?!?! Staff: Uh, well this rocket boo....(abrubtly cutoff) New Leaders: Get the hell out of this office! The hell is the matter with you people!?!? Is this your first taste of what an MMO is?!? Staff: We have voices that really immerse our players into a re....(cutoff again) New Leaders: One more word out of you and youll be finding yourself a new job! ...How are the mergers coming along?! Staff: Mergers? We dont believe that is the right course at this time, but in the future, we intend too...(not only cutoff, but grabbed from his shirt and dragged to a PC screen...opens up the server select page, and points his finger) New Leaders: Look at that you moron.....what do you see?!? Staff: I see....i see.....one heavy server, 5 standard, and like 150+ light servers? New Leaders: Yes you are correct! Your fired! Do we have any other idiots in here?! Do you people have any clue what MMO gamers expect today? Staff: We have never done an MMO... New Leader: Exactly! I want all of you to stop what you are doing right now.....yes you too...stop it! Stop wasting your time with this crap! Your only goal right now is to get Server Mergers going, with Transfer Servers. Your going to get Warzone rankings up and running, your going to get cross server LFG tool out, your going to add Chat Bubbles, your going to add an optional server wide chat channel so people can continue talking to others anywhere, your going to stop wasting your time on Legacy because you people could not of made it any more boring, and your going to add more things for our dedicated level 50 players to do, and stop forcing them to keep making alts because your too damn lazy to make anything endgame worthwhile. Oh and dont be scared to start adding some sandbox elements into the game. Staff: Uh....sandbox? What will they do with sand..?.... New Leaders: And your going to get this all done on the next update! And we better not see it drag on for months! Staff: Sigh... New Leaders: Also.....start talking to your playerbase on forums ALOT more! What are you vampires!?! Talk people! You have a brain and a mouth....T A L K!!!! Oh and if im still flying Starfox by the end of this year, and still be forced to stay in the Fleet.....you will not want to anticipate what will come upon you. amin to that , i 'm realy courios about what you think it's happening right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakkip Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Here is my dream scenerio: New top leaders walk-in the office Monday morning.... New Leaders: W T F have you guys been doing for 6 months?!?! Staff: Uh, well this rocket boo....(abrubtly cutoff) New Leaders: Get the hell out of this office! The hell is the matter with you people!?!? Is this your first taste of what an MMO is?!? Staff: We have voices that really immerse our players into a re....(cutoff again) New Leaders: One more word out of you and youll be finding yourself a new job! ...How are the mergers coming along?! Staff: Mergers? We dont believe that is the right course at this time, but in the future, we intend too...(not only cutoff, but grabbed from his shirt and dragged to a PC screen...opens up the server select page, and points his finger) New Leaders: Look at that you moron.....what do you see?!? Staff: I see....i see.....one heavy server, 5 standard, and like 150+ light servers? New Leaders: Yes you are correct! Your fired! Do we have any other idiots in here?! Do you people have any clue what MMO gamers expect today? Staff: We have never done an MMO... New Leader: Exactly! I want all of you to stop what you are doing right now.....yes you too...stop it! Stop wasting your time with this crap! Your only goal right now is to get Server Mergers going, with Transfer Servers. Your going to get Warzone rankings up and running, your going to get cross server LFG tool out, your going to add Chat Bubbles, your going to add an optional server wide chat channel so people can continue talking to others anywhere, your going to stop wasting your time on Legacy because you people could not of made it any more boring, and your going to add more things for our dedicated level 50 players to do, and stop forcing them to keep making alts because your too damn lazy to make anything endgame worthwhile. Oh and dont be scared to start adding some sandbox elements into the game. Staff: Uh....sandbox? What will they do with sand..?.... New Leaders: And your going to get this all done on the next update! And we better not see it drag on for months! Staff: Sigh... New Leaders: Also.....start talking to your playerbase on forums ALOT more! What are you vampires!?! Talk people! You have a brain and a mouth....T A L K!!!! Oh and if im still flying Starfox by the end of this year, and still be forced to stay in the Fleet.....you will not want to anticipate what will come upon you. Not that I disagree about there being issues with the game, but a sure fire way for a project to get bogged down and seem like it never accomplishes anything is to fire the management staff and have the new staff completely change direction and abandon all the work that is in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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