Leggomy Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Also: In this topic: Scores of people who bought this game expecting it to be SWG2. And people who fail to realise that TOR is still churning a profit for EA/Bioware. For how long? People are dropping like flies. I bet since they announced the 1.3 mil number they have lost at least another 400k subscribers. I am about to cancel myself I am worried this game is simply going to close. They refuse to give us any ideas on when 1.3 will be available. Looking like it could be never now. A ton of people are jumping ship they seem to be Nero fiddling while Rome burns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highsis Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 this game is dead, or at least about to. Shame... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggomy Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Also 1.3 has no new content. How long do you think 1.4 is going to take? Are we looking at next year before we actually see anything new? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeonBraun Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) *shrugs* It launched more complete than any MMO before it. I don't think, for a second, that content was released any earlier than planned. The release was a big success. Oddly it had a lot of bugs on release that many never noticed in beta, or that had been crated in a later release build. Bugs are things that get worked out... Some took a while and some took too long; the real issue was launching with no contingency plans. How does a 300 million dollar project get shipped with no contingency plan? Dropping that many servers on release week was one thing (and clearly head scratching); but launching them with no development on a transfer system? How exactly does that happen. Of note, all this is sad... I'm still building my guild; still enjoy this game. Someone needs to start making some decisions that can start moving the game in the other (more positive) direction. Edited May 23, 2012 by LeonBraun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelinCarnate Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 For how long? People are dropping like flies. I bet since they announced the 1.3 mil number they have lost at least another 400k subscribers. I am about to cancel myself I am worried this game is simply going to close. They refuse to give us any ideas on when 1.3 will be available. Looking like it could be never now. A ton of people are jumping ship they seem to be Nero fiddling while Rome burns. Exactly correct. Just because a company is turning a profit currently does not mean that it will continue forever. Giving away a free month this early into the game cycle is a huge warning sign. It would appear that they did this to pad their numbers to hide or delay the massive drop in thier numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyvim Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) For an IP based MMO with 5 years behind it and a HUGE budget, for it to tumble this far, this fast, should be a gigantic wake up call to mgt. Pure themeparks have problems. Damion Schubert explained them. And explained why TOR should never be one...but then BW went and released about as pure of a themepark as you can get... That aside, the endgame aspects of this game just are not there or were poorly conceived. Ilum. All pvp reduced to warzones. Forced pugs in every WZ. Unbelievable. Turns out alot of people dont give a flip about story, nor do they want to reroll repeatedly to experience it (I am an alt-aholic though, and I do like the stories)...alot of people would probably just rather be able to customize their one favorite toons appearance... But yes, this game is beginning to feel as dead as the cantinas in its cities. I hope it wasnt just the line folks that got some pink slips, for the health of the game I hope it is some of the people RESPONSIBLE for the tumble this game has taken...it is those decisions that are behind these layoffs after all. Edited May 23, 2012 by Dyvim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kleve Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Quoted from another site. *IF* that's a legitimate quote from another site, it's both sad and completely expected. Anyone who reads the official forums has probably noticed countless "BW, are you even PLAYING YOUR OWN GAME?" posts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) The release was a big success. Oddly it had a lot of bugs on release that many never noticed in beta, or that had been crated in a later release build. Bugs are things that get worked out... Some took a while and some took too long; the real issue was launching with no contingency plans. How does a 300 million dollar project get shipped with no contingency plan? Dropping that many servers on release week was one thing (and clearly head scratching); but launching them with no development on a transfer system? How exactly does that happen. Of note, all this is sad... I'm still building my guild; still enjoy this game. Someone needs to start making some decisions that can start moving the game in the other (more positive) direction. Actually there WAS a plan, and software, in place. BioWare had server transfer software ready since beta. The plan was to drop plenty of servers for a good launch, then cull them back a few months later. Then something in Legacy, probably a "last-minute addition" that they talked about in the podcast, broke the software they had ready. What do you do? Remove 1.2 when half the population logged in to set perks already, then do the transfers while reworking 1.2, or do you let 1.2 go since it's already in, and rebuild the transfer software? Two evils, no good answer. Maybe that's one of the reasons why QA is taking a lay-off hit, I dunno. It's on QA to keep stuff like that from happening. Edited May 23, 2012 by JeramieCrowe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuscad Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Anyone else get the feeling that we're standing on Alderaan and a small moon just appeared? I feel more like I am coming up on an asteroid field where Alderaan used to be and a small moon that shouldn't be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bielduwyn Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 For how long? People are dropping like flies. I bet since they announced the 1.3 mil number they have lost at least another 400k subscribers. I am about to cancel myself I am worried this game is simply going to close. They refuse to give us any ideas on when 1.3 will be available. Looking like it could be never now. A ton of people are jumping ship they seem to be Nero fiddling while Rome burns. That is a guess on your end though. Plus it is fairly common for an MMO to lose subs in the first months after release as people come in, check it out, note its qualities and its bugs, and unsub until the first expansion pack or some other major content release to come back to a more polished game. And I can't blame them, this is the first time I bought an MMO at launch myself, typically I wait half a year to a year for the bugs to get ironed out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 *IF* that's a legitimate quote from another site, it's both sad and completely expected. Anyone who reads the official forums has probably noticed countless "BW, are you even PLAYING YOUR OWN GAME?" posts... Even though I swallowed a HUGE grain of salt as I read that referenced quote, it seemed to me like the ones he was talking about not playing the game, yet being in a position of decision-making, were ones not in BioWare, but EA... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skorz Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) Yep this game is dead or about to be. I wish in the future gaming companies would lean more towards sandbox themed MMO's rather than to these gimped down, mainstreamed, doomed to fail themepark MMO's that are aimed for "I wan't everything now!!!1 herp derp" generation of gamers. So less selfishness and thinking about only money and more making an actually GOOD games in the future please. Edited May 23, 2012 by Skorz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenceriker Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I am fine with him going, hadn't showed up much on the forums anyway (just like the community manager before him). Pretty much, Stephen Reid going is an actually a plus for Bioware. Not if only we could get Erickson and Ohlen to leave and be replaced by competent leads this game might come around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggomy Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 That is a guess on your end though. Plus it is fairly common for an MMO to lose subs in the first months after release as people come in, check it out, note its qualities and its bugs, and unsub until the first expansion pack or some other major content release to come back to a more polished game. And I can't blame them, this is the first time I bought an MMO at launch myself, typically I wait half a year to a year for the bugs to get ironed out. Are you serious? You honestly think that losing 400k subs and possibly since when 400k more is normal? It is NOT normal. This is the biggest sci fi franchise every to exist. This is a failure of EPIC proportions. I am wondering now if the game will even exist in 6 months. 1.3 has no ETA they refuse to put in cross server lfg tool because their "metrics" say people will be fine on the deserted servers. No word on when they will start closing servers and merging the populations. On top of all this now there are massive layoffs over at the studio. How can you still sit and say everything that is happening is somehow normal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuscad Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Here is my dream scenerio: New top leaders walk-in the office Monday morning.... New Leaders: W T F have you guys been doing for 6 months?!?! Staff: Uh, well this rocket boo....(abrubtly cutoff) New Leaders: Get the hell out of this office! The hell is the matter with you people!?!? Is this your first taste of what an MMO is?!? Staff: We have voices that really immerse our players into a re....(cutoff again) New Leaders: One more word out of you and youll be finding yourself a new job! ...How are the mergers coming along?! Staff: Mergers? We dont believe that is the right course at this time, but in the future, we intend too...(not only cutoff, but grabbed from his shirt and dragged to a PC screen...opens up the server select page, and points his finger) New Leaders: Look at that you moron.....what do you see?!? Staff: I see....i see.....one heavy server, 5 standard, and like 150+ light servers? New Leaders: Yes you are correct! Your fired! Do we have any other idiots in here?! Do you people have any clue what MMO gamers expect today? Staff: We have never done an MMO... New Leader: Exactly! I want all of you to stop what you are doing right now.....yes you too...stop it! Stop wasting your time with this crap! Your only goal right now is to get Server Mergers going, with Transfer Servers. Your going to get Warzone rankings up and running, your going to get cross server LFG tool out, your going to add Chat Bubbles, your going to add an optional server wide chat channel so people can continue talking to others anywhere, your going to stop wasting your time on Legacy because you people could not of made it any more boring, and your going to add more things for our dedicated level 50 players to do, and stop forcing them to keep making alts because your too damn lazy to make anything endgame worthwhile. Oh and dont be scared to start adding some sandbox elements into the game. Staff: Uh....sandbox? What will they do with sand..?.... New Leaders: And your going to get this all done on the next update! And we better not see it drag on for months! Staff: Sigh... New Leaders: Also.....start talking to your playerbase on forums ALOT more! What are you vampires!?! Talk people! You have a brain and a mouth....T A L K!!!! Oh and if im still flying Starfox by the end of this year, and still be forced to stay in the Fleet.....you will not want to anticipate what will come upon you. I hope this is exactly how it went because that is what this game needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blavatsky Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) Yep this game is dead or about to be. I wish in the future gaming companies would lean more towards sandbox themed MMO's rather than to these gimped down, mainstreamed, doomed to fail themepark MMO's that are aimed for "I wan't everything now!!!1 herp derp" generation of gamers. So less selfishness and thinking about only money and more making an actually GOOD games in the future please. These big collective discussions must degenerate into memes. Sandbox and Themepark have become memes. The smallest unit of understanding for a broader idea. The argument has become so incoherent to me. Whats a sandbox. Is Vanguard a sandbox? Whats a themepark, Is WoW a themepark? and which game do you like better? Edited May 23, 2012 by Blavatsky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiabloDoom Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Yep this game is dead or about to be. Yep, 2nd most popular game in the West, completely dead ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bielduwyn Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Are you serious? You honestly think that losing 400k subs and possibly since when 400k more is normal? It is NOT normal. This is the biggest sci fi franchise every to exist. This is a failure of EPIC proportions. I am wondering now if the game will even exist in 6 months. 1.3 has no ETA they refuse to put in cross server lfg tool because their "metrics" say people will be fine on the deserted servers. No word on when they will start closing servers and merging the populations. On top of all this now there are massive layoffs over at the studio. How can you still sit and say everything that is happening is somehow normal? Well as it stands, it was reported well before launch that TOR could churn a profit even at 500k subs. And we are still well above that. Second, this too is a guess on my end I'll admit, but I would imagine that maintaining and updating an MMO requires less manpower than making one from the ground up. Certain types of programmers and say, concept artists aren't needed anymore as the systems are in place and the look and feel of TOR is well established. And while I'm sure Bioware would've loved to keep everyone on board, I can imagine EA putting pressure on them to run the team as efficiently as possible, IE getting everything done with less people. But again, just my theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggomy Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Yep, 2nd most popular game in the West, completely dead ... According to who? You think in Feb when they had 1.3 mil subs people havent left since? I would bet they would be lucky to have 500k subs right now you actually pay (not people they handed a free month). They better put out 1.3 in the next 2 weeks or you will see a mass exodus (myself included). Since they simply do not seem capable of putting out these updates in a timely fashion people are not going to continue to pay. Now we hear they are laying off people left and right? Whats to happen when we are in July and still not server merges, no transfers and no new content? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggomy Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Well as it stands, it was reported well before launch that TOR could churn a profit even at 500k subs. And we are still well above that. Second, this too is a guess on my end I'll admit, but I would imagine that maintaining and updating an MMO requires less manpower than making one from the ground up. Certain types of programmers and say, concept artists aren't needed anymore as the systems are in place and the look and feel of TOR is well established. And while I'm sure Bioware would've loved to keep everyone on board, I can imagine EA putting pressure on them to run the team as efficiently as possible, IE getting everything done with less people. But again, just my theory. Seriously man you have your head in the sand. They dont lay off the community manager as part of normal business. They dont lay off real staff. I dont know if this is your first experence with the buisness world but swtor is sinking FAST. The people in charge seem not to care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) Seriously man you have your head in the sand. They dont lay off the community manager as part of normal business. They dont lay off real staff. I dont know if this is your first experence with the buisness world but swtor is sinking FAST. The people in charge seem not to care. Actually, most developers DO normally lay off right after launch, sooo... However, this layoff is not normal. Edited May 23, 2012 by JeramieCrowe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggomy Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Actually, most developers DO normally lay off right after launch, sooo... However, this layoff is not normal. Since when? Name one successful MMO that laid off a bunch of real staff (not contractors) including the community manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeterno Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Ah yes, the lay off that are the tell tell sign of death. Btw when is the Blizzard funeral? I mean they did let go of 600 people in march, I assume WoW is dead and burried by now. Lets get a grip lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggomy Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Ah yes, the lay off that are the tell tell sign of death. Btw when is the Blizzard funeral? I mean they did let go of 600 people in march, I assume WoW is dead and burried by now. Lets get a grip lol. Blizzard is about 10000 times bigger than Bioware. So them laying off 600 people is like Bioware laying off the janitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) Since when? Name one successful MMO that laid off a bunch of real staff (not contractors) including the community manager. What's a "successful" MMO in your eyes? Only WoW? I ask honestly so I know which ones to provide for you. Edited May 23, 2012 by JeramieCrowe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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