Halacs Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 what if my DPS is low because I am doing my job of interrupting, moving out of the fire and switching to kill adds? Should I be kicked then because my DPS is lower than the idiot who stands still and spams his rotation against the boss? meters encourage bad gameplay from a lot of people.. not better Interrupts are logged as well as damage taken and from what source....so no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forsbacka Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Yes. When you get info of how other players in the raid are performing you can replace the bad ones and get good ones in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MukeFreerider Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I understand the need for one. But I think the day this game gets one, will be the day the game, or should I say, the general community goes straight into the toilet. You'll see nothing but class whining and a slippery slope of trying to balance, tune, and re-balance classes with every single patch. One day your class will be on top, the next patch, it'll get nerfed to uselessness, and this will go back and forth over the whole life of the game and it'll leave every single player who sticks with it, angry and frustrated at some point. It'd be nice if it was a personal dps meter or maybe something assigned only to a raid leader. Nothing that can be broadcast to the general population or used by epeen clowns in 4 man groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halacs Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Then don't be the teacher....but you can't be the judge and jury either. People pay money to play this game to enjoy it, not to be ruined by elitist e-thugs. I tell you what..I'll support a dps meter if you support them not giving groups the ability to kick players and huge penalties to people who leave the groups because they think their group sucks. I pay to play as well and not have my time wasted by under performers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gripenfelter Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I pay to play as well and not have my time wasted by under performers. Then get your friends, guild mates, or you're personal group of choice and have all the fun you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forsbacka Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I disagree with allowing meters. For my own good I would like to see what I do, but I dont need to see yours. Meters and addons are bad for the community. People need to learn how to play with crutches. As per your question, booting anyone with low dps is really selfish. EDIT: Also, my class has 3 dps specs (marauder) Why should I have to play the spec that everyone else plays because it does 1% more damage?? Meters lead to cookie cutter specs. Lmao, well good luck in downing hard bosses if they ever introduce any in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandmthethird Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Then get your friends, guild mates, or you're personal group of choice and have all the fun you want. any1 that takes anything that seriously is not having fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthdoll Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Lmao, well good luck in downing hard bosses if they ever introduce any in this game. I have not had any problems yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerda Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Oh goodie another meter debate. I frankly don't care. I have thoroughly enjoyed levelling without one and everything consistantly drops dead. I'm not 50 yet so it's not really vital yet either. I hate the morons who are dps slaves wishing to be the highest yet often the worst players because they dont' take part in any game mechanics because all they care about is being that top dps-er etc. I hate the saddos that spam the information every time they top. I hate the muppets that wont take into account you've only just hit max level and you need to farm good gear to improve etc etc. It is obviously also useful to be able to spot a terrible healer or bad dps-er who has completely no idea what they are doing either dps wise or does not interupt or CC etc. It is useful when trying to work out your best rotation or order of priority etc etc. So there are pro's and cons and frankly I've had enough of all the debates. Either they'll introduce it or they wont and we'll deal with it either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOG_Hammer Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Please explain. Where do I find these magical numbers to tell me who is doing the damage they should be? The problem is that you rely on numbers, not on what you actually see in your game screen. You do not have to know how much damage another person do. It only serves elitist behaviour so that you would kick the player if he/she is not doing a certain elitist minimum numbers they should attain. Yes you read correctly, any discrimination based on unreliable numbers (anyway) should be considered elitist. And people who have to rely on DPS meters to judge how a player is doing, is maybe not playing the game correctly, he is doing a job, not playing. It is not any competition, and most peolple can do fine in dungeons or raids without any add-on whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoggyMack Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 The ONLY add-on I support in Star Wars The Old Republic is a tool that let's you measure another player's midichlorian count. It fits the lore. And, you can spot how many people really do suck at playing if you can see what their midichlorian count is at all times. Recount? No way. Midicholrian Count? YES way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galacious Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 screw recount. ACT would be awesome. Personal progression is always good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillOne Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Geesh, didn't I post on this thread in 2008? I wonder who had the bright idea to bring this issue back from the depths. /accuse I don't support addons what so ever, but I do support an ingame group damage meter that can be turned on or off in the options tab. I think most of us understand how the armor, weapons, buffs, modifications, stims etc. work now. For those who don't understand... well, it's up to us as a community to assist these players so they can enjoy the game as much as the rest of us who do understand. (it would be hard to guess at who needs help the most, without group damage/heal info... maybe the guy who keeps needing a rez hehe) Being that this is an old issue that's gotten no attention from Bioware Devs... I think we're going to have to do without this option for any version of a "Recount," regardless how sensible or silly the request might be. I did post in support of many individuals great ideas though. Can we come back to 2012 now, this thread is dusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everi Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 If it only shows me my own DPS/healing then sure. If it shows everyone everybody's DPS/healing then no. I feel like it should be used to tell me if my new gear/rotation is helping me or not. Instead people just use it to grief others and kick people from groups that can't carry them. Ex: Raid leader is trying to get carried by the rest of his raid so he kicks anyone that doesn't pull their own weight along with his own. I've seen this happen a lot and it's pretty sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairless Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 OP is possibly the most biased OP that could have been made. Let's make everyone on my side out to be awesome correct good guys who know what they're talking about and everyone who thinks differently is a bumpkin screaming at each other to make pig sounds. Recount is a terrible idea as it completely infests the mindset of the entire game... there is no such thing as "use it if you want to". People will make it absolutely mandatory to use such a thing, like they did with iLevel and recount in WoW, because it becomes the easiest way to in some way (not a correct way) qualify people for your needs. Recount does not make you a better player, it does not help you optimise anything, it just makes you able to make a number go higher if you have to stand on a spot and not think about anything other than making that number go higher. Problem is that's not all you have to do. The scenario recount creates: Player x vs player y in who you want to let into your raid. Player x does 5000 dps but player y does 5100 dps. You let player y in because "hey, he does moar deeps!"... player y never moves out of the fire, never stands in sight of healers, calls out what's going on when needs to, has any level of intelligence outside of making that number stay around 5100, and because of him the healers had to refocus needed healing, the tanks had a lot more trouble with aggro, and the raid wiped or he died half way through and the kill took twice as long. Problem is if you want to kick the idiot player x has already gone offline as he couldn't get in a raid. Yes player y is obviously just a bad player... but that doesn't matter, because you qualified him on his ability to make that number go up, and what do you know: there are a lot of bad players who can do that. Games have done brilliantly without meters like recount for a long time, the best players in PvP battlegrounds didn't need it, people were running raids and downing extremely difficult bosses without it. Yet because it was put into place and it makes thinking a dumb way easy people are forced to use it. If you bring back recount it's a straight shot to Deadly Boss Mods, iLevel and rotationhelper. Nah. Your post is so biased it's friggin hilarious. It's incredibly obvious that you desperately tried to come up with a valid argument against damage meters but failed at it because you don't have any. All you did was create a fictitious scenario with a super terrible player having zero situational awareness. Recount doesn't cause someone to lose situational awareness. Only the worst of the worst players would. Player X is also a terrible player because he does even worse dps than Player Y. Having good situational awareness doesn't mean you should do lower dps than a terrible player with zero awareness. People with good situational awareness tend to be even better at playing their class. And I don't know what kind of game you've been playing but having damage meters has nothing to do with your dps during a boss fight. You don't magically start doing more DPS just because you installed Recount. A player doing good dps would be focusing on everything but Recount. Cooldowns Buffs/debuffs Boss health % self health % mana cast bar Aoe opportunities Threat Adds and everything else. Recount doesn't create bad players. They were already bad. Recount helps good players get recognized. It works FOR good players. Your argument doesn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillOne Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 If it only shows me my own DPS/healing then sure. If it shows everyone everybody's DPS/healing then no. I feel like it should be used to tell me if my new gear/rotation is helping me or not. Instead people just use it to grief others and kick people from groups that can't carry them. Ex: Raid leader is trying to get carried by the rest of his raid so he kicks anyone that doesn't pull their own weight along with his own. I've seen this happen a lot and it's pretty sad. I agree and fully support this. Using a Recount meter in ways that are not helpful to other players in need of assistance is likely the very reason why such a thing has not been added and won't be added. /tiphat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoggyMack Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 If it only shows me my own DPS/healing then sure. If it shows everyone everybody's DPS/healing then no. That's why my idea works better. I don't want to invade your privacy and know your innermost DPS thoughts. But damn if your midichlorian count isn't open to my scanners! Like Liam Neeson did in the movie, he just popped his scanner out and said "damn, son, your midis are off the chart!" Midichlorian Counter is the way to go. Damage Meter? We don't need that. We have midichlorians! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forsbacka Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) I agree and fully support this. Using a Recount meter in ways that are not helpful to other players in need of assistance is likely the very reason why such a thing has not been added and won't be added. /tiphat Well if they dont add it, there wont be any really hard boss encounters in the future. Edited January 7, 2012 by Forsbacka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) Lmao, well good luck in downing hard bosses if they ever introduce any in this game.Admitting defeat already? This is an example of WoW conditioning its end game faithful into believing that difficult content requires tools from outside the game. Pull add-ons from WoW and force raiders to clear Firelands with nothing but the game at their disposal and there'd be blood spilling in SW, Org and in front of millions of computers worldwide. Blizzard screwed up by allowing the modding community to dictate their game's combat mechanics. BW won't make that same mistake. There will be rudimantary add-on fucntionality built into TOR at some point, just not to WoW's ludicrous extent. Edited January 7, 2012 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosedog Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) Make it optional and non linkable. There, now those who want it can have it and those who don't, don't have to deal with it. From my experience most of the people who are against a damage meter say they were top dps in top 25 guilds before swtor so it shouldn't be a problem. Edited January 7, 2012 by moosedog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkman Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I would love recount. I just want to know how I am doing my job as a dd. And I want to be able to see which skills work well and which don't. I think serious endgame will not be possible without such tools to monitor your group's performance and point out and eliminate weaknesses and mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belialle Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) I liked having Recount in WoW for my own use. Having that information handy could be very useful, right? Let's be honest, though. There were also some negative effects, weren't there? For this game, I think I might prefer to see a tool that allowed me to monitor my own damage/healing/threat output and prevented me from linking it in chat. As a raid leader, I would like to be able to use something like World of Logs, though. Edited January 7, 2012 by belialle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forsbacka Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Admitting defeat already? This is an example of WoW conditioning its end game faithful into believing that difficult content requires tools from outside the game. Pull add-ons from WoW and force raiders to clear Firelands with nothing but the game at their disposal and there'd be blood spilling in SW, Org and in front of millions of computers worldwide. Blizzard screwed up by allowing the modding community to dictate their game's combat mechanics. BW won't make that same mistake. There will be rudimantary add-on fucntionality built into TOR at some point, just not to WoW's ludicrous extent. You must be able to indentify bad players from good ones in terms of DPS in the fights where it comes to seconds if you kil the boss or not. Heroics Ragnaros took 500 wipes before it was killed for first time and you cant have single bad dps on that fight. Now people cant measure their own dps or others. 1 choice would be making fights not a dps race but then the succes would rely oly on healers and tanks if it comes to just survive long enough no matter what the dps is. But im sure that they add meters to measure peoples performance in raid enviroment when they add any challenging end game raiding content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kunitsukami Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Nah. Your post is so biased it's friggin hilarious. It's incredibly obvious that you desperately tried to come up with a valid argument against damage meters but failed at it because you don't have any. Oh the irony. You're being a jack***** and it's my opinion, I said it was and I am being biased.... because it's my opinion and I am biased.... but at least i'm using real ideas and things that have happened to back what I am saying. All you did was create a fictitious scenario with a super terrible player having zero situational awareness. Well done you know what using a scenario to better express your point is. Recount doesn't cause someone to lose situational awareness. Only the worst of the worst players would. Yes, and as I said... there are a lot of very bad players out there, I have seen idiots regularly in WoW that did this and its a pain to everyone involved. Player X is also a terrible player because he does even worse dps than Player Y. But that's not what's happening in my scenario... I am saying that it is used to choose one player over another when you don't know anything about either of them, such as in a PUG. And it is used. Having good situational awareness doesn't mean you should do lower dps than a terrible player with zero awareness. People with good situational awareness tend to be even better at playing their class. Well done I completely agree with you on this point. And I don't know what kind of game you've been playing but having damage meters has nothing to do with your dps during a boss fight. You don't magically start doing more DPS just because you installed Recount. I played WoW since vanilla and they added recount in 2007 I think, so 3 years after it came out. And yes... well done again my point was exactly that. People do not do more DPS because of recount, but min-maxers say they can gain a better rotation by doing so, which may be true but it doesn't make you a better player. A player doing good dps would be focusing on everything but Recount. Cooldowns Buffs/debuffs Boss health % self health % mana cast bar Aoe opportunities Threat Adds and everything else. So..... Also, people using recount will always check recount throughout the fight, which is why you always get shouts of "more DPS" "more healing on x and y" "watch your aggro" etc etc in WoW raids. If you don't know that then stop talking. Most of what you put there is pretty basic and isn't worth mentioning as it does nothing to detract from what I said except just add fluff. Recount doesn't create bad players. They were already bad. Recount helps good players get recognized. It works FOR good players. Your argument doesn't work. You're pretty dumbed down on this. You're generalising massively and it does not help good players get recognised that's ridiculous. It helps players (of any type, good or bad) let people know the damage per second/healing per second/10 other things overall and per second that they can do in a fight. It does NOT let someone know if you have good situational awareness, knowledge of the fight and if you can quickly pick up tactics, or if you're a good player in any way. You don't even seem to be making a point other than being passive aggressive and arrogant so I can't say your argument doesn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannim Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 If it means they keep the UI locked and don't allow mods: Yes. My choice would be to have the combat log locked to the individual player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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