Do you support an in game version of Recount. Please give reasons for your answer.

[Tralesh]

Yes and for everything there is not a single reason not to have it. It's good for leveling up in order to cut down rotation, its also good for tanking to get a bigger pool of data in order to maximise talents. Its also crucial for raiding, and dungeons for obvious reasons.

 

Also I like looking at bars and doing theorycraft.

 

Every bad reason you can think that will come out of a parser is allready existing by having people saying what ever the bad reason is just like with everything else. Its the people who abuse it, not the tool that abuses itself.

 

 

Edit: And I want all the data, not just "damage over all" that you can throw out the window and have a personal DPS meters. Im talking about actual information not just the e*****flexmaterial.

 

This is the prime reason these meters are bad. To think it's crucial? What, you can't think for yourself and play for yourself?

[Saberolson]

Yes and for everything there is not a single reason not to have it. It's good for leveling up in order to cut down rotation, its also good for tanking to get a bigger pool of data in order to maximise talents. Its also crucial for raiding, and dungeons for obvious reasons.

.

 

If it was crucial for raiding, then it would be in the game. Period. If you cant figure out what rotation you need to use without a damage meter, you shouldnt be playing.

 

The combat system and talant trees are setup very obviously for figuring out what type of rotation you need. Not to mention that most classes seem to be falling into more of a priority system due to the resource systems we have.

 

There has been PLENTY of theorycrafting done without the need to resort to damage meters. Also, without damage meters in the game, bioware is free to create more creative types of fights that require teamwork as opposed to noone wanting to drop target to help with adds, or cover the healer, or kite, cause they just want to throw up leet numbers.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Saberolson

[Vanendumar]

No, I do not want a Recount type analogue in TOR.

 

Although I have no problems with the tools themselves, (having raided in EQ2 for 4 years, and later 2 years in WoW) the end user communities are entirely different, and I will not tolerate a know it all, casting critical dispersions on any group member, even witnessing it or hearing in vent the constant bickering the culture that game created made my blood boil.

 

So, to summarise, I am not objecting to the program's functionality. I am objecting to Bad's pointing out other bads as proof of getting hit by Rag Hammer fire for a wipe, while failing to take down one of the 8 add spawns - trying to blame others then DC'ing after a tirade of linking trash parses from irrelevant encounters earlier.

 

Yes, I got burnt hardcore, and I hate that stereotype.

[Kanahbus]

I remember a long time ago I got a tell saying I was the highest dmg in a PoI (Plane of Innovation in EQ for youngsters) I had no clue how this person knew how much dmg I did , I just was focused on doing what I was suppose to be doing and the dmg just came naturally.

 

Raiding was so much nicer back then and my point is "IF" ppl could use meters for what they are intended for that's fine. But the truth of that is hardly anyone does , and it just breeds horrible ppl and changes the whole feel of a game.

 

Right now the game is lighthearted and if you know what you are doing and are a decent human being you get groups and complete what you set out to do. Its so enjoyable to ask for a heroic group and get 10 whispers instead of "how much dps you do or what is your gearscore."

 

Having meters that can be posted in chat by anyone in today's post all those other MMO's era is going to lead to a shift in the feel of the game and also completely take away ppls right to have an opinion on there spec, it will end up with cookie cutter specs and ppl being falsely judged on things before ever showing if they are actually a good player doing what is needed for the group as a whole.

 

So I agree with the ppl who have said its fine as long as it can't be posted, If you want to see personally what you are doing fine but that's where it should end.

[Israel]

If you play well, you wont even know recount exists... unless of course you play with a terrible play who has no common sense... and the great thing about that is that you learn not to do any activities with that person the next time around.

[Squizzo]

I don't really like damage meters, all too often they are used to scrutinise players who may not be doing 100% as well as they could be, but are still giving their full effort. As long as a player is polite and puts in a reasonable effort then I'm happy to group with them.

Besides which, I can usually tell which players aren't pulling their weight without a recount.

[Israel]

Besides which, I can usually tell which players aren't pulling their weight without a recount.

 

If by "pulling their weight" you mean hitting random buttons to activate spell animations then yes... I'm sure you can tell who is "pulling their weight."

[speck]

Recount/damagemeters whatever, been playing since vanilla wow and it's a great tool to learn your character and optimize it for encounters. Some people use it as a e-peen dps tool, but i think most people tend to use it to learn how to optimize their dps for certain encounters it's also a tool to compare yourself against others to see what you are doing wrong.

 

The kick situation in pugs, well ive seen it but can't say it's thats common.

 

I would go even further and say that it shouldn't be closed down to what bioware releases would be nice to open up a ingame scripting api like lua for wow.

[kasanth]

What it can be used for and what it will be used for are two different things.

[RichLather]

This is the prime reason these meters are bad. To think it's crucial? What, you can't think for yourself and play for yourself?

This isnt Ninja Gaiden, this game runs on math...if you cant see the math then you are guessing, if you are guessing then you arent really playing the game properly. If you dont want to play the game properly then thats ok, play the way you want. But for someone to WANT to block others from playing the game to its full potential makes no sense, wanting others to suffer for something you dont even care to use is cruel.

Edited December 27, 2011 by RichLather

[Israel]

This isnt Ninja Gaiden, this game runs on math...if you cant see the math then you are guessing, if you are guessing then you arent really playing the game properly. If you dont want to play the game properly then thats ok, play the way you want. But for someone to WANT to block others from playing the game to its full potential makes no sense, wanting others to suffer for something you dont even care to use is cruel.

 

Exactly this... in arcade games you can't do "bad" damage because all you have to do is hit your attack buttons and you're good. This is an mmo, people need to understand that.

[darthdoll]

Only if you see your DPS not everyone elses.

 

Addons lead to easy, Easy leads to bad kids, bad kids lead to hate, hate... leads to suffering.

[Griminal]

Yes I support it. The reason I support it is so I can see who isn't pulling their weight in my groups and dispose of them.

[MOG_Hammer]

Yes but not playing properly affects 15 other people in your raid. That kind of "I play how I feel like" attitude is selfish and puerile in a group setting... especially a competitive one.

 

You're basically wanting to remain anonymous and play sub-optimally while getting "carried"... all in the name of you having "fun"?

 

I agree with what you say, but no add-ons at all will tell you that. If you happen to play with someone that seems to do everything like if he was on his own, then you do not need any add-on to tell that. Just kick that person that refuses to play in a team. DPS counters are just numbers, that doesn't tell anything about play skills.

[Kunitsukami]

OP is possibly the most biased OP that could have been made.

 

Let's make everyone on my side out to be awesome correct good guys who know what they're talking about and everyone who thinks differently is a bumpkin screaming at each other to make pig sounds.

 

Recount is a terrible idea as it completely infests the mindset of the entire game... there is no such thing as "use it if you want to". People will make it absolutely mandatory to use such a thing, like they did with iLevel and recount in WoW, because it becomes the easiest way to in some way (not a correct way) qualify people for your needs.

 

Recount does not make you a better player, it does not help you optimise anything, it just makes you able to make a number go higher if you have to stand on a spot and not think about anything other than making that number go higher. Problem is that's not all you have to do.

 

The scenario recount creates:

 

Player x vs player y in who you want to let into your raid. Player x does 5000 dps but player y does 5100 dps. You let player y in because "hey, he does moar deeps!"... player y never moves out of the fire, never stands in sight of healers, calls out what's going on when needs to, has any level of intelligence outside of making that number stay around 5100, and because of him the healers had to refocus needed healing, the tanks had a lot more trouble with aggro, and the raid wiped or he died half way through and the kill took twice as long. Problem is if you want to kick the idiot player x has already gone offline as he couldn't get in a raid.

 

Yes player y is obviously just a bad player... but that doesn't matter, because you qualified him on his ability to make that number go up, and what do you know: there are a lot of bad players who can do that.

 

Games have done brilliantly without meters like recount for a long time, the best players in PvP battlegrounds didn't need it, people were running raids and downing extremely difficult bosses without it. Yet because it was put into place and it makes thinking a dumb way easy people are forced to use it.

 

If you bring back recount it's a straight shot to Deadly Boss Mods, iLevel and rotationhelper.

[MOG_Hammer]

Yes I support it. The reason I support it is so I can see who isn't pulling their weight in my groups and dispose of them.

 

If you have to rely on any addon to tell you that, then you should be the one to be kicked from the group, since you can tell without any add-on who is not pulling their weight.

[Griminal]

If you have to rely on any addon to tell you that, then you should be the one to be kicked from the group, since you can tell without any add-on who is not pulling their weight.

 

Please explain. Where do I find these magical numbers to tell me who is doing the damage they should be?

Edited January 7, 2012 by Griminal

[Hairless]

Only if you see your DPS not everyone elses.

 

Addons lead to easy, Easy leads to bad kids, bad kids lead to hate, hate... leads to suffering.

 

You have an extra chromosome bro?

 

This thread is about damage meters.

 

A boss fight doesn't magically get easier just because you have damage meters running.

 

It helps those who want to improve. I don't see how that leads to bad kids.

 

But then again, I shouldn't be expecting anything remotely logical from someone who so desperately opposes damage meters.

[darthdoll]

You have an extra chromosome bro?

 

This thread is about damage meters.

 

A boss fight doesn't magically get easier just because you have damage meters running.

 

It helps those who want to improve. I don't see how that leads to bad kids.

 

But then again, I shouldn't be expecting anything remotely logical from someone who so desperately opposes damage meters.

 

Did I say I oppose it? Nope.

 

You wouldn't understand, but then again I shouldn't expect anything intelligent from you.

Edited January 7, 2012 by darthdoll

[Griminal]

The only people who are opposed to damage meters are people who got kicked from groups in a certain game because they didn't know how to play this certain game properly.

[Kunitsukami]

Please explain. Where do I find these magical numbers to tell me who is doing the damage they should be?

 

The level of damage isn't the only thing, or even the first thing you should be looking for.

 

Do you know what you should be looking for in a bad player?

[Ricktur]

dude, you didnt even enable a poll. . .

[Griminal]

The level of damage isn't the only thing, or even the first thing you should be looking for.

 

Do you know what you should be looking for in a bad player?

 

Where did I say damage is the only thing that is important? It's one of them though,and if someone can't do damage, as a damage dealing class, then I don't want them in the group.

 

Recount is the only way to tell if someone is doing the damage they should be doing, unless they are literally standing there doing nothing at all.

Edited January 7, 2012 by Griminal

[Halacs]

Yes

 

 

Why? Mostly for me. I like to min max. I also raid and it will help to gauge fights. Can't watch 15 others all the time.

 

People will be jerks no matter what. They will kick you for low DPS or because of bad gear.

 

DPS meters don't make people elitist. They are always going to be that way, with or without.

[Sigmah]

OP is possibly the most biased OP that could have been made.

 

Let's make everyone on my side out to be awesome correct good guys who know what they're talking about and everyone who thinks differently is a bumpkin screaming at each other to make pig sounds.

 

Recount is a terrible idea as it completely infests the mindset of the entire game... there is no such thing as "use it if you want to". People will make it absolutely mandatory to use such a thing, like they did with iLevel and recount in WoW, because it becomes the easiest way to in some way (not a correct way) qualify people for your needs.

 

Recount does not make you a better player, it does not help you optimise anything, it just makes you able to make a number go higher if you have to stand on a spot and not think about anything other than making that number go higher. Problem is that's not all you have to do.

 

The scenario recount creates:

 

Player x vs player y in who you want to let into your raid. Player x does 5000 dps but player y does 5100 dps. You let player y in because "hey, he does moar deeps!"... player y never moves out of the fire, never stands in sight of healers, calls out what's going on when needs to, has any level of intelligence outside of making that number stay around 5100, and because of him the healers had to refocus needed healing, the tanks had a lot more trouble with aggro, and the raid wiped or he died half way through and the kill took twice as long. Problem is if you want to kick the idiot player x has already gone offline as he couldn't get in a raid.

 

Yes player y is obviously just a bad player... but that doesn't matter, because you qualified him on his ability to make that number go up, and what do you know: there are a lot of bad players who can do that.

 

Games have done brilliantly without meters like recount for a long time, the best players in PvP battlegrounds didn't need it, people were running raids and downing extremely difficult bosses without it. Yet because it was put into place and it makes thinking a dumb way easy people are forced to use it.

 

If you bring back recount it's a straight shot to Deadly Boss Mods, iLevel and rotationhelper.

 

Because the raid leader brought player Y, he is a bad raid leader. Not standing in fires is a given in plenty of guilds raids. Let me throw another scenario. Player X does 5000 DPS and player Y does 3000 DPS. They are the same class with the same level of gear. Neither stand in fires and get themselves dead or any other raid members dead. Without dps meters there is nothing seperating these two, theres virtually no way to tell. So raid leader brings player Y because of seniority and is non the wiser that hes actually worthless.