Also, i think you mean assassinate sub 30%. Yes you use that. Its hits for 3/4 of what 3 stacked HD hits for instantly.

If you staying out of melee range, and not using thrash or saber strike, you are left with lost gcds I would think. Using nothing but wither, shock, and FL wont line up correctly. And when im in the middle of a big fight, im getting force back from def, so the cost of using thrash is just not an issue. Rarly do I ever run out of force in PVP, and when I get close, its right about the time I have 3 stacks of HD, which gives me 3 secs of regen, which usually goes over whatever FL took. And by this point most people are near death anyway, and assassinate is normally primed for the kill. So im just not sure I buy into that strategy. I wont say it doesnt work yet, I guess ill have to try it out and see. Energize procs quite a bit, I dont fish for it, I always try to keep a priority of skills to use. Keeping with that strat, in both PVE and PVP ive never had a problem with force, though in PVE, i weave in saber strikes from time to time. Ill try and test this out and see what comes from it. I do agree with the changes to wither, I def dont thrash NEAR as much though. And i feel more like a battle mage than the melee character i used to feel like.

I don't keep discharge on cooldown in PVP. 5% acc debuff is really not doing much for me in PVP. I use it when im in big groups to help my teammates but that is it. Getting huge shock crits is more when im going for, and thrash is my avenue to that I added a few things to the first post, check it out again.

In PVP open with shock, followed by Wither, then i start thrashing trying to get energize to proc, which it normally does, so I can get the last shock out and blast them with a HD FL. Obviously, in between you want to interupt casters with jolt, overload, and when you get it, spike. At 30%, u want to assassinate, not maul, it hits like a truck. Plus it can proc energize now too. I use dark charge and I use a shield gen, but ive seen many people who dont. I PVE too, so its just how ive rolled, but the majority of my PVP gear is all DPS. The shield works against weapon damage basically, and there is still plenty of that flying around. The meager increase in damage of a focus doesnt seem worth it to me, plus dark charge requires very little to keep up. We have force shroud for what our shield doesnt stop on a 45 sec cooldown. I can def tell the difference when i have run without one. In PVE, I usually do the same thing, except I make sure to keep discharge on cooldown. But thrash is really important for getting energize to proc. I only reapply wither when the debuff falls(unless im having trouble holding hate, which I never really have). Shock is our bread and butter and getting it to crit and come off cooldown quicker is always a good thing. Main point, is make sure to not leave out thrash. Energize is a big part of our tree, and you need to make the most of it. Plus, its force cost is pretty low(with all the force regen we have going, often times its made up durring the animation)

I use it in PVP all the time, most people are not as good at recognizing abilities as people seem to think they are in this game. They see a cast bar and EVERYONEs first move is to interupt, which doesnt work. That eats up 1 GCD, and and you get get another second ate up by people having to recognize the ability, so thats 2.5 secs of a 3 sec cast. By that point its over, you just nail them for 3k+ damage. And with the change to wither, I can get 3 stacks back in 3 gcds, so im not so shy with using it. Sure I get knocked back while casting from time to time, but its usually by someone im not even targetting. This isn't the arena for the 1 trillionth time, its fast paced group combat, most of the time, im killing people in the middle of a group and they may not even realize im attacking them. Stop giving the avg player so much credit. harnessed darkness is an AMAZING ability, and with wither procing it now, its totally changed the game. I almost feel more like a battle mage than a tank now, and I find it much easier to finish people off in PVP with the change. Recklessness plus HD FL is an I WIN button.

This just isnt always true. Esp for tanks. Very often, I will be the top player on the list for having top 3 damage, best kill to death ratio, and top medals. But I will also be top gaurd, and top objectives. Esp if i buddy up with a healer. The two of us and can fight off tripple our numbers at an objective if played well. And since I dont die much, I get these huge numbers cause im always in the fight. I never chase people to finish kill, pass a teammate up in trouble, or farm medals. And Im constantly taunting, debuffing with wither and discharge(acc debuff), pulling people off healers, ect. What I personally think happens the most, is that people want to get MVP themselves, so they vote for the lowest ranked player thinking they wont get as man votes, not understanding the system. So the low guy gets the most. I myself always vote for the healers that keep me alive.

This People need to accept what they can do at 50, and push through. Even when i was in my 45+ orange as a fresh 50, as a sin tank, I could tie up a DPS for a solid 30 secs while my teammates either came to save the day, or got away and scored. I could taunt, withers, and discharge to debuff the team. I was still getting 4-6 medals. I was dying a lot, which took some adjustment, but it wasnt near as bad as I expected based on the qq.

You dont deserve my response, you really dont. But you leave me no choice......you sir....... are a complete jack-off. Really?? Some people got full champ gear in 10-15 bags, while other went through 100 and got a few pieces. Its not rocket science. And you only get 15 centurian comms, its 7 champ. And centurian is just there to get you in the door, cause its complete crap with horrible secondary stats.

Yes, but there isnt an arbitrary stat that makes them do more damage while recieving less. If it was like wow, and it just reduced damage in order to make matches longer, that would be fine. But like the OP mentioned, once everyone has it, it will be like everyone is at zero anyway (10% def boost canceling 10% off boost). So it makes no sense. If it was purely a def stat, at least the newer 50s wouldnt have to take 10% more damage while doing 10% less. PVP gear should just have higher end and acc(to get through increased parry, deflect, dodge of a player), and then the rest of the stats would be what is beneficial to your class. As it stands right now, the centurian gear has such poor secondary stats, I cant see anyone really wanting it. You litterally have to replace the mods in it just to make effective. Power and acc for a sin for example, but no crit and surge???? HUH?! Acc is fine, but there is too much on it, and power is great for slow steady fights, but when is PVP ever slow and steady? And then the champion gear has crit and surge, driving a further wedge in the new 50, old 50 gap. Skill accounts for squwat to a new 50. It just too big of a gear gap. And skill has to mean somthing in PVP or its nothing more than alternative gear grind to PVE to show off your leet gear cause you have more time than the rest of us. Thats what makes PVP so rewarding is the chance to beat another human. But as it stands, its like walking in with one hand tied behind your back. I of course think someone who has been 50 for weeks should have some kind of advantage, but it should be from normal stats and damage reduction, not expertise. I for one didnt step foot into PVP after 50 untill I had modded out all my gear with lvl 50 stuff, and I still go blasted. I should of had a chance, but doing 10% less damage, and taking 10% more(on top of the increased normal stats)is brutal. Its not just the expertise by itself. Its the increased stats from gear, plus the expertise on top. I think the increased stats alone would of made life hard enough, but at least it would be someting you skill your way through.

Thank you so much for this!! It has been driving me CRAZY running the ball in huttball, making it to the last stretch, and getting CCed 4 times in a row and dying. Ill believe my resolve bar full and try to make it through the flame jets only to get stopped dead in my tracks(and its not just a root, as i have no control to pass). I have been so pissed thinking resolve was just not working right. Especially when my damn force pull fails half the time, but i get CCed a million times. Its the incapacite/paralyze/roots that are getting through on me. Still, drives me crazy. there are FARRRR too many CCs in this game. I mean really, I will get CCed like 10 times on my way to the goal line sometimes. The stuff that I think needs to be removed completly from PVP is the 60 sec CC abilities. I know they dont last that long on us, but that has no place in a PVP exp that already has to many stuns/incapacitate. Esp when some classes cant use theirs out of stealth, while other can just fire away.

Dont quote me on this, but I think there is a cap to how much bonus crit damage you can get. I could be wrong, but I could swear I saw that somewhere.

Seriously, your a few weeks late on this, but 31/0/10 actually moved ahead in terms of damage with the change to wither a few patches back. Give her a try. Especially now that wither procs harnessed darkness, i went from doing good damage in PVP, to incredible damage in PVP. I can use wither more freely now, without having to worry about getting 3 stacks of HD just from shocks. I can have 3 people beating on me and often times kill one, and stay up long enough for a healer to come in a heal me since im able to get the 9% heal every 3-4 GCDs now. Wither gets a damage bonus from talants, so dont base your opionion of the basic tooltip either. Ive always been speced 31/0/10 as I PVE a lot too, so ive seen all the changes as they come, and its gotten sweeter and sweeter with each patch.

wow...just wow. Has the avg MMO player really fallen this far?? You are melee. It has a 10 yard range, and usually sticks a little longer as people move away, plus, they are snared the whole time. Most people arent smart enough to run away, and if they force speed away, so what, they are out of the fight now. Not to mention it takes all of 3-4 gcd to get 3 stacks back now. Ive been playing darkness for well over a month and have had maybe 3 people run out of range while channeling the ability. Its much easier to get out of a casters FL, cause they are normally attacking from max range as opposed to us attacking from right on top of the target. Force speed or a knockback is all that saves someone from it really. If you cant keep people in range, you are doing something really wrong. DPS running with tanks specs was broken. Get over it, and just reroll marauder.

Not sure what you are smoking. My energized shocks hit like a truck. Even in PVE its a huge part of our threat. In PVP its fantastic. 10 yards isnt a ton, but its better than 4. And chain shock seems to proc and crit quite a bit. I have no complaints. And for darkness, there really is no other choice outside of chain shock anyway.

You arent immune to knockbacks, just player interupts, and pushback from damage.

OMG!! Someone who understands the game. Slap me, I must be dreaming. But seriously, eveyone who is complaining is mad because the spec that allowed to be mauraders is dead. You now why...cause we arent marauders. Everyone complained that we didnt do enough damage, so we needed to run in dark charge. While running in dark charge, nullified 13 damage increasing talants of the deception tree. Well no kidding. So they run ind ark charge, and do about 15-20% more damage than darkness but with nearly the same survivability. That doesnt work. You cant have the best of both worlds. Full speced deception, geared with crit and surge, do massive damage when they use surging charge. Kill speed goes up incredibly, but everyone wants to run into the middle of 8 people and get mad they cant survive. Neither can i as darkness unless I have a healer for that matter. If people running full deception would grasp the concept of the class, they would do much better. There is no reason as full deception sin should not dominate alderon and void star.(huttball just isnt a good place for melee, esp ops and sins) Those places are set up perfectly for sins to do their job and do it right. You hang on the edges of combat, killing the casters and healers, while the brawlers(tanks and marauders) fight over the middle ground. Everyone refers to us as melee DPS. No we are a stealth class...there is a difference. Just because we dont have a big alpha strike doesnt change that our job is to get in, kill, and get out. Ops jobs are no different. But people think they have it sooo much better than us cause "they have heals!!!" Which are complete crap, and stupid easy to interupt. Sins have 3 chance to interupt, and by the time you use your 3rd, the 1st one is back. they have a bubble and crappy heals, we have force shroud and deflection. Our damage does not require front loading, theirs does. And really running as a tank is an absolute blast, Im not sure why everyone is so resistent to try it. Use DPS gear, and spec tank and watch your foes fall. I guess they just dont want to tank in PVE, but most hardcore PVPers dont PVE anyway. With the change to wither adding HD procs, PVP has become an absolute BLAST as darkness. Im able to throw out full stacked FL every 3 GCD down, and its increased my survivability, my overall killing power(killing healers was a nightmare before, it was just a seires of them trying to heal and me interupting for ever and ever amen), and my worth to group is up as I can freely use wither to debuff now without having to worry about HD charges. Instead of crying that they fixed the broken spec(really, do fury warriors get to run around in prot stance switching back and forth without any consequence in wow?) try understanding the class a little bit, rather than trying to force your idea of what it should be onto it. You might be surprised. And if you just dont like how it plays...marauders can always use a few good men to bolster their ranks. Cause thats what you should of picked.

I feel your pain OP, people are just *****. Sometimes the search bar fails you. I dont know if he used it, but ive uysed it many times looking for an answer, only to find nothing. But when you ask, you get ripped apart for not using it. I relish the day when our brains are plugged into computers, and I can have a mental battle with all the forum natzi and bullies out there:) Thankfully i should still be alive thanks to advances in extention of life the medical world will be bring to us soonm:)

You have obviously never played a darkness sin then. 3 stacked HD force lightning is absolutly devestating in PVP to finish someone off. ANd if you pop reck with it, forget about it. You can litterally takes someone from 40%-0% with that move, and if anything is left, assassinate finishes them of. Ive always used wither sparingly, in order to get my 3 stacks, now i can get people debuffed much easier without losing my HD stacks. And since thrash hits twice, going down to 30% means very little since it can proc of each attack. and they added in assassinate, which helps us to go into our next kill with stacks.

Correct, the only reason to take death field is if you are full madness anymore. Wither even at 1.1 wins out, but with 1.2, like the above poster said, it wont even be close.

will->crit->surge->power And dont forget acc. Im still not sure just how important it is without a autoattack, but im sure its quite important. Also, surge's stat weight grows as you crit increases. What i mean is that if you only have a 10% chance to crit, its nigh worthless, and power is the better choice. But, as you crit gets to 20% and higher, surge becomes very powerful. This is all of course assuming you are DPS. Surge can be more powerful for a tank running in DPS gear in PVP, even at lower crit %, as they are going to crit on almost every shock anyway.

The blackout talant just means you get to have dark embrace mid fight without going stealth, and you arent given a negative healing debuff(pots or heals from other playrs) And you can beat melee targets, if you are really good, But they take time to bring down, time which you dont have in PVP. Get in, get the kill, get out. The mantra of an assassin. And mauraders have some damn good dammage debuffs and def abilities that make killing them very tough for a sin.

Force sensative people have never been super rare(plus with sooo many people, even .05% will seem like a lot). But at certain times, Jedi and sith were rare. Jedi, after malek did massive damage, and of course after sidious inacted order 66, and sith, for 1000 years stuck to the rule of 2, with only 1 appretice and 1 master, in order to rebolster the strength of the sith. Darth bane fealt that since sith lords would have many apprentices, that rather than growing strong enough to defeat their master on their own, would team up to defeat the master, creating with each generation weaker and weaker sith lords, that the destruction of the order was needed to perserve it. But even durring that time, there were thousands of people with the ability to use the force. And many were trained to be pure warriors(such as maul, who was never truly given the secrets of the sith order) Both sith and jedi are just 2 orders of force users. There are dark side force using withches, the delve into the dark magics of the force, but arent consider sith for example(this is where maul comes from), some grey palidin order of light side users, that used to the force, but also used blasters. Ect, ect, ect. So because there has always been so many force sensitive people, at any given time, both the sith order and jedi order can have their ranks bolstered to HUGE numbers. It just so happens at this point in the star wars timeline, there are many of both. Now of couse as far as people playing jedi knights, they have one of the coolest stories in the game, and its the closest thing to the movies, so many people will flock to them. I do agree that bioware should of put a grey choice system into the game. But as it stands, if you want to have access to any of the dark/light specific stuff, you pretty much have to go all or nothing with one side, and that I dont like. I want to play a character who kills sometimes, and other times grants mercy depending on the situation.

As a tank, with a DPS companion, I solo 2man heroics just a few lvls above me frequently, and certaqin 4 mans as well. When i was specced DPS, trying to use a tank companion, I failed HORRIBLY at even a 7-8 lvl difference on 2 mans. So 10-15 as DPS on 2 mans is prob about right.

Because players are usually wrong. They have adapated to a playstyle that became HOT, because it functioned outside of the design of the original class, or the original design became too strong due to gear lvls, and needed t be toned down, or clever players figured out something the devs missed, and its causing imbalances in the game in its current state, or a future state we rent aware of, ect, ect, ect. Players are normally wrong, and motivated by selfish desires. They care only for their own exp, and fear having to adjust to anything new. So anything that isnt an OBVIOUS improvment, will always cause massive backlash from the players. The op change is the perfect example. Everyone screamed the sky was falling......it didnt, ops are just as good as they ever where. Its no different with sins. Deception sins will now have to learn to play the class as it was DESIGNED to be played. There will be nomore dual saber mauraders. You will have to play like an assassin would. On the fringes of the map systematicly destroying ranged DPS and healers. you may even surprise yourselves when you find out you damage actually doesnt suck, you have just been ignoring 13 of your talent points by using dark charge. If everyone wants something to complain about, how about the change to champ bags, making it even harder to get champ gear before you reach BM, further the gear gap. When simply making the centurian gear have proper stats, or changing champ bags to all champ tokens with no drop, would fix the issue instantly. Thats a worthy cause for QQ. But hey, im prob wrong, I am a player after all, the devs prob know somehtig I dont.

your kinda missing some of my points though. Your still assuming that an assassin should be played in a simlar fasion as a marauder. They should not. Everyone wants to force a style onto a class that was DESIGNED(wheter anyone agrees with the design)to play a different way. Stealth is there to let you get to your target, when they knock you back, you have force speed to get back to them. Force shroud and deflection to survie the charge, and 3 chances to interupt their casts. game, set, match. Deception assassins really are the assassin class. they sneak in, take out a target, and get the **** out of dodge. And in the other WZs, they wont get knocked off the railing before they finish the hit. Ops share a similar role, but have no way to quickly reclose the gap when they get knocked back, so they must front load their damage, so when the stuns are over, they dont have much left to mop up. 2 similar classes, that overall, end up doing very similar total damage, but at different points of the fight. Everyone wants to do EXACTLY what everyone else does. If that was the case, why not just make 4 classes, we will call them tank, melee DPS, ranged DPS, healer and call it a day. then you have 1.7 million people playing only 4 classes that do everything exactly the same. That would be a blast wouldnt it? balance sure wouldnt be a problem.