Do you support an in game version of Recount. Please give reasons for your answer.

[Xeridae]

I'm not against information because all information is useful but I've also seen no evidence in this game so far, even in level 50 operations, that it's necessary.

 

I'm leaning towards being against simply because players are idiots and don't know how to gauge it properly outside of what it's intended for. I remember playing vanilla wow in 40 mans without the need for it..

[traft]

I do not.

 

I rather enjoy the content than be forced to hit some absolute pre-determined number designed by min/maxers.

 

As long as tank can hold agro and healers can keep everyone up and dps can drop a target then I don't care who comes what position in damage, it is not an E-sport game and that level of competition can hamper the enjoyment of the game.

 

You can see when people are not pulling their weight, you don't need a meter. You also do not want to punish those who play classes that for whatever reason haven't been adequately balanced.

[Israel]

THIS is the wrong attitude. It's a game, not a job. We're paying to play this thing, not the other way around. For the record, Tanks and Healers fail too.

 

Yes but not playing properly affects 15 other people in your raid. That kind of "I play how I feel like" attitude is selfish and puerile in a group setting... especially a competitive one.

 

You're basically wanting to remain anonymous and play sub-optimally while getting "carried"... all in the name of you having "fun"?

Edited December 14, 2011 by Israel

[Kyrandis]

No because it takes away from immersion, removes the humanity, has no options for privacy, turns Casual Content into Raidmode, and makes the game feel less of a game, and more of a job.

 

It allows the playerbase to learn the game faster, burn though the content quicker, mess up the skill curve, and produce a larger population of elitism(most of which think they are apart of the elite but aren't).

 

Understand that I have never been kicked for under-performing(raiding or otherwise) but I have seen its effects when the majority of the community uses it. I am all for allowing it in raids, but not for use as a tattletale Addon.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Kyrandis

[AllanGand]

Yes it's a great tool to figure things out.

 

But after my experience with it in wow. People get too focused on the numbers and forget paying attention to the encounters.

 

Honestly if they could put it in the game and then take it away from everyone who misuse it I would be all for it.

Edited December 14, 2011 by AllanGand

[Xebarrn]

A personal one, for self improvement and only visible to that individual, I can agree with.

 

However, the group/raid one I'd say no to at launch, as gear/experience is going to vary widely. In 6 months to a year, Possibly, but need to see how the game goes at that time.

[Colobulous]

I believe these tools play an important role in identifying whether a player is doing well or under-performing. Nevertheless, these graphs should be the starting point – an indicator that you should be looking more closely at the situation. Used wisely, a tool like this could greatly improve guild performance.

 

You may want to edit your post to more clearly identify that you wish it to be done directly by Bioware, on their terms, to avoid the lack of clarity that muddled the previous thread on the subject.

 

Yeah, Gearscore serves no purpose.

 

You know better than that. Otherwise you might as well join the "No Inspects EVAH" crowd.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Colobulous

[celtcub]

No. Absolutely not. They change "game" into "job" and I don't want to play a monthly fee to work...

[Israel]

You know better than that. Otherwise you might as well join the "No Inspects EVAH" crowd.

 

Gearscore serves no purpose in this thread. I'm not "against" gearscore... I just personally don't care. Recount on the other hand is something I would really love to see in the game and real soon too.

[MacabreVermin]

Yes. It's incredibly helpful in min/maxing dps, healing, and threat generation. As a healer, I can definitely credit Recount for helping me raise my hps by at least 10-15% or more. It also allows the lazy and bad players to be picked out. If you're arguing that it screws up pugs, then join a casual guild and run with them. Guilds exist for a reason. If you think min/maxing is a waste of time and makes the game feel like a job....join a casual guild. They exist for a reason. If you don't like it, you can simply not use it and it's easy to avoid. If you're socially awkward and only like pugs, then play your class correctly. While it may sound elitist, if you're doing bad enough dps that you get forcibly removed from a group, you're doing something very wrong.

[Dayln]

No and I am not interested in your opinion of my reason.

 

I have seen these mods turn so-so players into incredibly bad players

[Appletaz]

Absolutely not. I do not want damage meters, or however you want to redescribe them, in the game.

 

I think I've stated why in many other threads, so Im not really excited about doing it now. but to make a long story short, they are simply a tool which is generally used to shun and reject other people because of some inability to work together as a team. They get to now point a finger at damage meter fingers, which sometimes is simply not all there is to it, and tell someone either they are not good enough or tell the other person/s how great they are. Please. Enough epeen already floats around the game.

[Ankido]

Recount is my life on my rogue. Without recount, my rogue is not that fun to play. I like to see meters go up when I use CD's. I sometimes find myself keeping up with some better geared players which tells me they're not good at their class.

 

Just my 2 cents...err..i mean credits.

[seahorsey]

Yes. Reason: I don't like playing with noobs.

[PinkDaisy]

DPS meters will be in the game, don't worry.

 

They are essential tools to many. A tool can be used wrong or it can be used right. Most detractors only point out how it can be used wrong which is only a thin veil for their own insecurity.

 

If you don't like them, you can find other people like you to play with.

Edited December 14, 2011 by PinkDaisy

[Colobulous]

Gearscore serves no purpose in this thread. I'm not "against" gearscore... I just personally don't care.

 

Well, that is true, but you replied on the subject, after somebody else posted on it, with what I consider to be a bit of an excessive statement regarding GearScore. If you meant something else, ok, but it wasn't clear from your words.

 

Still, if you don't want to discuss it here, that's fine, I said my piece, and I'll gladly stick to just discussing Recount.

 

Though I do think it'll come up again. Sadly. Way too hot button an issue IMHO.

 

Recount on the other hand is something I would really love to see in the game and real soon too.

 

Like I said, though, you may want to make it more clear in your OP that you want development by Bioware directly, or just the functions to be available, so it's clearer. I noticed that derailing the prior thread considerably.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Colobulous

[Kolbenito]

Damage meters are for bads. Everyone who knows how to play the game can do so with minimal mods, and this is certainly one that isn't required to succeed in heroic content (yes I'm talking about WoW and by extension SWTOR).

[Cryptoling]

If you aren't in my guild chances are I won't be doing any grouping with you anyways regardless of an addon telling me how bad you play. I want it for my own use and to figure out where I can improve myself as well as help those who want to play better.

 

If it wasn't important then why not have 5 buttons with different color effects that all do the same damage as everyone and you just hit whatever you want for special effects? Stupid.

[Glowrod]

In and of itself, it's not a bad thing, and in other games I use it. The problem is that too many people use the numbers as an excuse to rage on people they feel don't meet up to their standards, even when the group is doing fine.

 

In other games, I actually stopped joining PUGs just because I get tired of seeing people vote kicked or getting verbally abusive over it.

[Israel]

Like I said, though, you may want to make it more clear in your OP that you want development by Bioware directly, or just the functions to be available, so it's clearer. I noticed that derailing the prior thread considerably.

 

Ok, I edited the OP.

[theLast]

Screw 3rd party add-ons and screw Bioware versions of 3rd party add-ons. I want a regular game interface that does not support people being elitest and kicking you out of a group if you get distracted during a fight and don't meet their threshold of "competency" as a gamer. I say that as someone who has consistently topped guild DPS charts on MMOs for the last 10 years. This game should be more than a pissing contest for button mashers trying to top the charts. One of the things that ruin MMOs is this kind of garbage. Edited December 14, 2011 by theLast

[Ragnarrage]

Heres my 2 cents on the matter of recount...

 

With any mmo, you WILL get baddies and you WILL have elitists.

Having said that, I agree with the use of such tools for a category of gamers that want to excel and succeed at the hardest content bio-ware can throw at us. There has to be a line drawn as to where and what you will accept as a bare minimum. If your performance as a player is not up to par, then by all means, please have fun in a more relaxed guild and enjoy the game. Let the segregation happen, its going to happen anyway, you cannot avoid it. For those of us with very competitive and over-achiever play styles, let us have OUR FUN in OUR WAY. Bio-ware cannot protect you from segregation nor should they, find your place in this world and be happy.

I use recount as a tool to help me maximize my performance, tweaking gear with stats, mods etc. in this case. I am not the person who stares at it during a fight and gloats on vent and trashes everyone beneath me. In fact, i only really parse the data after a fight is over. So to sum up...

Let a recount type mod exist, but let it ONLY be viewable for discussion after combat ends. This will solve a lot of issues while give room for improvement and....segregation...if needed =)

 

Everyone will have a place, and everyone will have fun. Just dont demand or qq to be a part of something you are not ready for. Its like demanding a job as senior programmer for bio-ware with a grade 10 education. I know the post has some elitist undertones, but i am not an elitist, i just play hard.

Have fun, see you in game if i ever get my early access email ...lawl... =)

[Hosebeast]

I generally consider myself a casual player but when I do find the time to play MMOs (for fun of course) I like to get the most out of the time I am able to put in since I tend to have a fairly busy RL schedule.

 

I also enjoy trying to get better at activities I love, or the work that I do... you should take pride in doing the best at something that you can on a personal level, and the better you get, the more pride you have and you will have a greater sense of fulfillment ; as well as the more free time you'll have to do other things.

 

If I am participating in a group activity with friends or pugs alike and if we are proceeding at a decent pace and not wiping over and over and over again I see no reason to even give recount a second thought (or hold over someones head that they are doing less dps than me or "I'm a better healer than you are!", or "my alt is a better tank !" "insert other random snide remark from misc. person you've heard here" etc etc.) In this situation I would merely use it to gauge my own performance; that I am taking minimal damage, my interrupts are landing, my dps is getting better over time with continual practice and upgrades, etc.

 

If my group (friends or pugs) are repeatedly wiping it does come in handy to see what people are and aren't doing; for us to work out a interrupt rotation if necessary, for the tank to use more cooldowns at a certain point in the fight, for the healer to use cooldowns to make up for the tank taking more damage, am I standing in fire or bad stuff? are any of my group members taking avoidable damage? How can we fix this? How can we get through this encounter more efficiently?

 

This is the way I see it, there is always going to be some jerk who is going to link meters or gloat about how much damage they are doing or how they are better; but to be honest with or without recount people are still going to nitpick at others, and there are still going to be those elitist people with or without an addon to help justify those opinions. Put them on ignore, don't group with them again; if your guild isn't a good fit and your ideals don't match, find a more suitable guild for your playstyle.

[Zantheon]

Recount should not be a part of SW:TOR in my opinion for many reasons. It decodes the game play fun and makes it a "top 5 - 500" and discourages people to experiment with creative builds, due to the ease of knowing which build is the best at the current time.

 

If you want a easy game, go to one of the other games that has something, if you want to ruin a good game, allow addons and keep peoples eyes on the numbers instead of letting yourself get immersed.

 

Its not always about one person as well, so do you want to promote a community of "I HAD HIGHEST DPS" or do you want to take the blue pill and resist the urge to say how good you or someone you know is at racking up numbers .

[Ragnarrage]

I generally consider myself a casual player but when I do find the time to play MMOs (for fun of course) I like to get the most out of the time I am able to put in since I tend to have a fairly busy RL schedule.

 

I also enjoy trying to get better at activities I love, or the work that I do... you should take pride in doing the best at something that you can on a personal level, and the better you get, the more pride you have and you will have a greater sense of fulfillment ; as well as the more free time you'll have to do other things.

 

If I am participating in a group activity with friends or pugs alike and if we are proceeding at a decent pace and not wiping over and over and over again I see no reason to even give recount a second thought (or hold over someones head that they are doing less dps than me or "I'm a better healer than you are!", or "my alt is a better tank !" "insert other random snide remark from misc. person you've heard here" etc etc.) In this situation I would merely use it to gauge my own performance; that I am taking minimal damage, my interrupts are landing, my dps is getting better over time with continual practice and upgrades, etc.

 

If my group (friends or pugs) are repeatedly wiping it does come in handy to see what people are and aren't doing; for us to work out a interrupt rotation if necessary, for the tank to use more cooldowns at a certain point in the fight, for the healer to use cooldowns to make up for the tank taking more damage, am I standing in fire or bad stuff? are any of my group members taking avoidable damage? How can we fix this? How can we get through this encounter more efficiently?

 

This is the way I see it, there is always going to be some jerk who is going to link meters or gloat about how much damage they are doing or how they are better; but to be honest with or without recount people are still going to nitpick at others, and there are still going to be those elitist people with or without an addon to help justify those opinions. Put them on ignore, don't group with them again; if your guild isn't a good fit and your ideals don't match, find a more suitable guild for your playstyle.

 

 

Very well articulated, agreed!