(From Taugrim.com)SWTOR Has Repeated RIFT’s Mistakes in Endgame PVP

[Ybini]

not sure why he only bought the warhero main hand....... he would have gotten a much better return on expertise if he had bought 5+ pieces of battlemaster gear

 

I was thinking the same thing. But you never know what the right thing to do is when you start a new game.

Edited May 23, 2012 by Ybini

[Baalseraph]

personally a player that choose the class because is weak or strong and not because he likes it it's doing it all wrong

 

and a lot of player choosing the weak class they do so to hide their mediocrity and blame the "weak" class if they sux

choose the one you like if is op wont be op forever and give ur best.

 

all the rest is (as the need of writing a analysis of a game not on the game forum) an exercise in futility why if u really care about the game and if u really like the game and the community don't you feel the need to share your view in the forum of the game u are actually playing?

 

You obviously have some kind of idiotic agenda here and it isn't discussion of the topic even after a warning from forum mod so I have reported your post. You are just coming across as pathetic.

[pathiss]

As much as I can't respect Taugrim as much of anything above an average player at best, from three games playing both with and against him, and as much as he is wrong about various things regarding game play across multiple games ....he is dead on accurate in saying that they made some of the same mistakes RIFT did. Not only that, they had the knowledge of the failures of WAR, the things both right and wrong from DAOC, etc. underneath the EA umbrella to use to make this game better ......and the absolutely dropped the ball.

 

Only EA can take the two potentially largest IPs out there outside of warcraft and completely screw up their opportunity. WAR was an epic failure, and even the pvp in that game was vastly better than it is in this one. heh ...sad but true.

[Irishbrewed]

Agree with Taugs assessment %100. They've done nothing but turned pvp into a grind fest that simply rewards the fatest guy on the server whose life consist of carpel tunnel and potatoe chips. Sub games mimicking wows business model come by the dozen and are nothing more then a fleeting attempt to capitalize on out dated game designs. No pvper wants a gear grinding hampster wheel, hope SWTOR wakes up future developers and they learn from its mistakes. Edited May 23, 2012 by Irishbrewed

[Ahhmyface]

I can't take anyone seriously who thinks pvp is less fun since 1.2.

 

1. Improved balance across more than half of classes

2. Faster combat

3. Less grind

4. Less RNG

5. Less huttball

 

Watching the clowns in this thread talk about "no lifers" in the context of 1.2 makes me lol at their pure, unfaltering ineptitude.

 

Give me a break.

Edited May 23, 2012 by Ahhmyface

[Skroting]

I can't take anyone seriously who thinks pvp is less fun since 1.2.

 

3. Less grind

 

Give me a break.

 

How is it less of a grind? Less RNG, sure, but all you'd have to do pre 1.2 was to complete your dailies/weeklies and you could just leave it at that, now it's hundreds of hours of getting your gear.

 

Are you saying that you're compairing the grind pre and post 1.2 solely on how fast you'll get your BM gear? ofcourse post 1.2 will be faster, take WoW for example, when a new tier of gear becomes availible the old tier gets easier acsessible. Saying that post 1.2 is less grindy because you get your BM gear in a couple of days is just stupid. Compare the top tier grind pre 1.2 to the top tier grind post 1.2, anything else is dumb.

[Ahhmyface]

How is it less of a grind? Less RNG, sure, but all you'd have to do pre 1.2 was to complete your dailies/weeklies and you could just leave it at that, now it's hundreds of hours of getting your gear.

 

Are you saying that you're compairing the grind pre and post 1.2 solely on how fast you'll get your BM gear? ofcourse post 1.2 will be faster, take WoW for example, when a new tier of gear becomes availible the old tier gets easier acsessible. Saying that post 1.2 is less grindy because you get your BM gear in a couple of days is just stupid. Compare the top tier grind pre 1.2 to the top tier grind post 1.2, anything else is dumb.

 

I'm talking fresh 50 -> full warhero.

 

First of all, they removed 2 tiers of pvp gear. The fact you can buy a starter set with credits is a huge time saver. It also took you nearly 25 battlemaster tokens for a suit, at a 25% drop rate that meant you need roughly 100 dailies. Then, when your daily was done, you couldn't even progress further. People who can only log in every second day would require 3 months of play to get battlemaster. AND ALL OF THIS IS THEY ARE LUCKY. Tons of us were not lucky, and got drop rates of 10-15%. This is NOT EVEN CONSIDERING THE VALOR REQUIREMENT that everyone has conveniently forgotten. Grinding valor was 10 warzones a day every day for over a month. Last of all, now I have flexibility of being able to play when I want. I can kill a saturday and play 10 hours and get a full piece of warhero, and skip the weekdays instead of being stuck waiting on my daily timer.

 

Bad memories combined with bad players = 1.2 whine

Edited May 23, 2012 by Ahhmyface

[Delanay]

At any rate, it's rather entertaining to read the amount of misinformation that people post about me. My gaming experience (which really meaningfully started in 2005 for MMORPGs) has been well documented. Am I the "best" PVP player? No. Am I competent? I've had opponents and allies tell me I am across games. And I am very willing to share my understanding of mechanics and classes with other players.

And this is what most of us who are familiar with your guides/etc. appreciate. I can't say I always enjoyed facing off against your teams in Rift, but I always learned something from the encounter.

Thanks for all your helpful input, Taugrim.

[Asukaa]

I'm talking fresh 50 -> full warhero.

 

First of all, they removed 2 tiers of pvp gear. The fact you can buy a starter set with credits is a huge time saver. It also took you nearly 25 battlemaster tokens for a suit, at a 25% drop rate that meant you need roughly 100 dailies. Then, when your daily was done, you couldn't even progress further. People who can only log in every second day would require 3 months of play to get battlemaster. AND ALL OF THIS IS THEY ARE LUCKY. Tons of us were not lucky, and got drop rates of 10-15%. This is NOT EVEN CONSIDERING THE VALOR REQUIREMENT that everyone has conveniently forgotten. Grinding valor was 10 warzones a day every day for over a month. Last of all, now I have flexibility of being able to play when I want. I can kill a saturday and play 10 hours and get a full piece of warhero, and skip the weekdays instead of being stuck waiting on my daily timer.

 

Bad memories combined with bad players = 1.2 whine

 

This guy gets it! I dreaded having to gear up an alt pre 1.2. I actually refused to do it and kept my alt at level 45, leaving the warzone right before it ended so I wouldn't get any XP from it. I could care less about the credits, valor and wz comms; I simply pvp'ed to pvp. But you can do that at pre 50 cause there's no gear to grind.

 

I said this a million times and so has everyone else, merge servers and do xque wz's. The class balance in 1.2 it pretty good. The only thing that needs to change is the fact that DPS specs still get to use tanking abilities and items. That is why people complain about vanguards/BH, assassins/shadows and juggs/guardians. They don't do too much dmg, they just live way too long, which results in high dmg done on the scoreboards and why people think they are OP.

 

Taugrim is stuck in WoW. The dude saved all his points to buy the WH weapon thinking that just like in WoW that's all you need to be competitive. No wonder he's been pvp'ing for 20 (actually 7) yrs without reaching close to the top! Tool!

Edited May 23, 2012 by Asukaa

[Lord_Karsk]

This guy gets it! I dreaded having to gear up an alt pre 1.2. I actually refused to do it and kept my alt at level 45, leaving the warzone right before it ended so I wouldn't get any XP from it. I could care less about the credits, valor and wz comms; I simply pvp'ed to pvp. But you can do that at pre 50 cause there's no gear to grind.

 

I said this a million times and so has everyone else, merge servers and do xque wz's. The class balance in 1.2 it pretty good. The only thing that needs to change is the fact that DPS specs still get to use tanking abilities and items. That is why people complain about vanguards/BH, assassins/shadows and juggs/guardians. They don't do too much dmg, they just live way too long, which results in high dmg done on the scoreboards and why people think they are OP.

 

Taugrim is stuck in WoW. The dude saved all his points to buy the WH weapon thinking that just like in WoW that's all you need to be competitive. No wonder he's been pvp'ing for 20 (actually 7) yrs without reaching close to the top! Tool!

 

From reading your post there must be alot og casual/bad players on your server who cant kill a "tank"

And just the factrthat you say class balance is good in 1.2 only proves you are beyond clueless.

[Asukaa]

From reading your post there must be alot og casual/bad players on your server who cant kill a "tank"

And just the factrthat you say class balance is good in 1.2 only proves you are beyond clueless.

 

No one said a "tank." L2Read before you start trolling.

 

The balance is not that bad. Just take away what I mentioned earlier and we're good to go. There is only 1 class that can beat me 90% of the time... and it ain't a mara/sent, vang/bh or operative/smuggler. I accept it an move on. You can't balance for 1v1.

[dcgregorya]

I'm talking fresh 50 -> full warhero.

 

First of all, they removed 2 tiers of pvp gear. The fact you can buy a starter set with credits is a huge time saver. It also took you nearly 25 battlemaster tokens for a suit, at a 25% drop rate that meant you need roughly 100 dailies. Then, when your daily was done, you couldn't even progress further. People who can only log in every second day would require 3 months of play to get battlemaster. AND ALL OF THIS IS THEY ARE LUCKY. Tons of us were not lucky, and got drop rates of 10-15%. This is NOT EVEN CONSIDERING THE VALOR REQUIREMENT that everyone has conveniently forgotten. Grinding valor was 10 warzones a day every day for over a month. Last of all, now I have flexibility of being able to play when I want. I can kill a saturday and play 10 hours and get a full piece of warhero, and skip the weekdays instead of being stuck waiting on my daily timer.

 

Bad memories combined with bad players = 1.2 whine

 

Or you're just framing in a way no one cares about. Champ dropped off the same dailies as both BM and Centurion (separately naturally). You could be full champ very quickly. Full champ was all you needed.

[Wintervoid]

I'm talking fresh 50 -> full warhero.

 

First of all, they removed 2 tiers of pvp gear. The fact you can buy a starter set with credits is a huge time saver. It also took you nearly 25 battlemaster tokens for a suit, at a 25% drop rate that meant you need roughly 100 dailies

 

Lets do the math on the two systems making an assumption of 6 games played a day to complete your daily, earning an average of 75 coms per match.

 

Pre 1.2 you would get .25 BM tokens a day from one daily and .125 from the other daily, and .1125 BM tokens from converting Comms to BM Tokens. That gives you 3.4125 BM Tokens a week + .5 from the two weeklies for an average of 3.9125 BM Tokens a week. Using these numbers, the average time to full BM was 6.39 weeks. This does not include the time to get to Champ gear or Valor rank 60.

 

Post 1.2 you need approx 29000 Ranked WZ Tokens (Not sure if that is exact number). You get 99 Ranked and 99 regular comms a day added to your 450 you won. That is 282 Rated Comms a day. This is 1974 a week + 133 from the weekly, or 2107 a week. By this system, you should be fully outfitted in 13.76 weeks. This does not include the time to get BM gear.

 

I was in near full BM before 1.2, and it was about 4-5 weeks from being a fresh 50 to hit that. I played more then 6 WZs a day average, and I was not unlucky on BM tokens, but about a month+ matches up fairly closely to the math above.

 

Since 1.2, I took most of a week to finish out the BM gear, and have gotten about 1/3 of my WH gear since then. At this rate, I will be fully outfitted in another 2 months give or take.

 

I actually do not mind the grind since I enjoy PvPing, but I do agree that it is much more of a grind to WH then BM ever was.

 

*Edited due to forgetting second Daily was 10 WZs played. Cut that Daily reward in 1/2*

Edited May 24, 2012 by Wintervoid
Bad math

[thepilk]

Lets do the math on the two systems making an assumption of 6 games played a day to complete your daily, earning an average of 75 coms per match.

 

Pre 1.2 you would get .25 BM tokens a day from one daily and .125 from the other daily, and .1125 BM tokens from converting Comms to BM Tokens. That gives you 3.4125 BM Tokens a week + .5 from the two weeklies for an average of 3.9125 BM Tokens a week. Using these numbers, the average time to full BM was 6.39 weeks. This does not include the time to get to Champ gear or Valor rank 60.

 

Post 1.2 you need approx 29000 Ranked WZ Tokens (Not sure if that is exact number). You get 99 Ranked and 99 regular comms a day added to your 450 you won. That is 282 Rated Comms a day. This is 1974 a week + 133 from the weekly, or 2107 a week. By this system, you should be fully outfitted in 13.76 weeks. This does not include the time to get BM gear.

 

I was in near full BM before 1.2, and it was about 4-5 weeks from being a fresh 50 to hit that. I played more then 6 WZs a day average, and I was not unlucky on BM tokens, but about a month+ matches up fairly closely to the math above.

 

Since 1.2, I took most of a week to finish out the BM gear, and have gotten about 1/3 of my WH gear since then. At this rate, I will be fully outfitted in another 2 months give or take.

 

I actually do not mind the grind since I enjoy PvPing, but I do agree that it is much more of a grind to WH then BM ever was.

 

*Edited due to forgetting second Daily was 10 WZs played. Cut that Daily reward in 1/2*

 

To be fair, the current system is incomplete. We dont currently have the "intended" method to generate Ranked commendations. I dont believe it was ever the intent for Daily/Weeklies and WZ 3:1 token conversions to be the primary method of obtaining War Hero gear. 1.2 simply gave us a way to get a head start on it until Ranked Warzones actually come out. Once we see what the payout of Ranked tokens is we can see a more fair comparison of the two systems.

[Wintervoid]

To be fair, the current system is incomplete. We dont currently have the "intended" method to generate Ranked commendations. I dont believe it was ever the intent for Daily/Weeklies and WZ 3:1 token conversions to be the primary method of obtaining War Hero gear. 1.2 simply gave us a way to get a head start on it until Ranked Warzones actually come out. Once we see what the payout of Ranked tokens is we can see a more fair comparison of the two systems.

 

I agree. When rated comes out, I do think WH will be quicker then BM ever was.

 

IMO, rated will solve alot of the current complaints about PvP.

[Atracin]

Other than the gear grind part, I agree with Taugrim on his points.

[Mathenaut]

Or you're just framing in a way no one cares about. Champ dropped off the same dailies as both BM and Centurion (separately naturally). You could be full champ very quickly. Full champ was all you needed.

 

The gap from champ to BM was a bit bigger than the jump from BM to WH, stat/expertise wise

[Arcit]

So again, post from guy who makes a glaring mistake at the begining (WH main instead of being half-BM geared?) and then proceeding to false conclusions based on his gaming experience impacted by above mistake is going to be an oralce and light of wisdom for forum dwellers (as before, with this TTK nonsence, probably caused by not adjusting his itemistion to 1.2 changes). Classic. Maybe some poeple should try to have their own opinion, not just blindly following guy who is changing MMOs more often than socks?

^THIS

 

He's obviously self proclaimed, and he's just trolled everyone.

I think his whole reality is fake, and you're all buyin it.

 

HF with that.

[anticept]

^THIS

 

He's obviously self proclaimed, and he's just trolled everyone.

I think his whole reality is fake, and you're all buyin it.

 

HF with that.

 

Atleast he does have some backing in previous games and in this to make claims not just some nonameforumtroll inciting his delusions of grandeur from carried wow rankings.

 

Also which is more easy to attain 3500 Rated warzone comms or 3500 normal warzone comms do the math buying the gun isn´t a big deal when you roll with a premade.

[taugrimtaugrim]

I was thinking the same thing. But you never know what the right thing to do is when you start a new game.

 

There is a reasonably valid argument that purchasing different WH pieces instead of the WH weapon would have been a better choice.

 

To argue that downtrading RWZ comms to WZ comms to buy BM gear is plain stupid, however.

[taugrimtaugrim]

As much as I can't respect Taugrim as much of anything above an average player at best, from three games playing both with and against him

 

I expect to get trolled by people who don't know me, for any number of reasons. E.g. they don't like the specs I play, they disagree with my opinions, I'm perceived competition, etc. Anyone who writes guides or blogs expects this, it's par for the course.

 

However, as you said, you know me. Moreover, you regarded me in a completely different light in terms of skill level prior to SWTOR.

 

For example, here's a post from you about me in RIFT (red emphasis mine):

http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-general-discussions/classes-telara/cleric-discussion/cleric-guides/248919-video-m-s-h-justicar-shaman-warden-pvp-rank-4-a-13.html#post3318904

http://imageshack.us/f/845/mtop1.png

I really come across wrong in a lot of my posts. I like running hybrid builds as well and do so to increase my fun factor quite often. Like Taugrim, I can run a hybrid build and excel at it by out damaging, out surviving, and out healing the average joe because we are both exceptional gamers.

 

Taugrim has influenced the community greatly with his posts because his videos are informative and well put together and the fun factor for the spec he highlights is extremely high. The negative part of this is that not everyone is a top tier (1%) player like him.

 

So somehow I went from being an "exceptional gamer" and "top tier (1%)" in RIFT to "average player at best" now.

 

You and I have held differing views in terms of the viability of specs, e.g. some of the hybrid ones I've played. But there has never been a question of our respecting one another's ability, until now.

 

Regardless what happened in SWTOR between us, I've tried to be publicly respectful of your guild and you.

Edited May 24, 2012 by taugrimtaugrim

[wessik]

it was interesting to see that he mentioned that 31pt assassins/shadows and marauder/sents were also fotm on his server...

 

that's pretty much all i see on our server as well...

[Anishor]

There is a reasonably valid argument that purchasing different WH pieces instead of the WH weapon would have been a better choice.

 

To argue that downtrading RWZ comms to WZ comms to buy BM gear is plain stupid, however.

 

I probably would have gone with two of the implants @ WH plus two pieces of BM gear to get you, but your analysis of the gear discrepancies was pretty darned good in spotting hte problems, though I don't agree with your assessment of the balance pre-1.2 . But that can all be attributed to lack of high level WZs on Test. Not enough data to prove the combination screwed Sorcs over.

[Daystarr]

And yeah i think most of us agree.Good blog by Taugrim as always.This man knows more

about your own PvP BioWare then your PvP team.

 

http://taugrim.com/2012/05/20/swtor-has-repeated-rifts-mistakes-in-endgame-pvp/

 

I dont know if its been mentioned already, but regardless I will state it now. One thing that discredits his entire article is that at the beginning of the article he said he plays a Scoundral and saved up 3.5k rwz comms, and 2k wz comms while levelling; then in the middle of the article he states PRE 1.2 CHANGES WAS THE BEST LVL 50 PVP HE EVER HAD.

 

Hmm, so which is it? This guy has no *********** clue what he's talking about. I couldnt even be bothered reading the rest of the article after seeing that ********. Haters gonna hate.

[williambr]

I dont know if its been mentioned already, but regardless I will state it now. One thing that discredits his entire article is that at the beginning of the article he said he plays a Scoundral and saved up 3.5k rwz comms, and 2k wz comms while levelling; then in the middle of the article he states PRE 1.2 CHANGES WAS THE BEST LVL 50 PVP HE EVER HAD.

 

Hmm, so which is it? This guy has no *********** clue what he's talking about. I couldnt even be bothered reading the rest of the article after seeing that ********. Haters gonna hate.

 

So you can't have played a character pre 1.2 and leveled a smuggler after 1.2? I'm not following.