Undying Rage is Fine the problem is...

[TexasJediKnight]

Lots of people have been complaining about the Undying Rage ability on the marauder when all you have to do is cc them when they use it and then use a ranged ability and kill them as soon as the cc is over...really not that bad.

 

Undying Rage is fine, Cloak of pain is the problem its on a 1 min CD and it can last for 30 secs so making it actually a 30 sec CD is what is stupid, and you can spec to where every retaliation you use lowers it by 3 secs, it should be on a 3 min CD like Saber Ward.

 

Please feel free to Rate this so it can get more attention from Bioware.

Post your thoughts here.

Edited May 20, 2012 by LexiCazam
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[cashogy]

id be down with that

[ShadowOfVey]

Undying Rage is fine, Cloak of pain is the problem its on a 1 min CD and it can last for 30 secs so making it actually a 30 sec CD is what is stupid, and you can spec to where every retaliation you use lowers it by 3 secs, it should be on a 3 min CD like Saber Ward.

 

Post your thoughts here.

 

I won't get into the overpoweredness of any abilities here, but I have always felt that Cloak of Pain is a more powerful cooldown than Undying Rage.

 

In a big brawl it's pretty hard to get it to drop off your potential enemy marauder target. You can personally leave them alone for 6 secs and attack someone else for a bit, hoping it drops, but someone else touching them will refresh it too. All the scattered AOE damage classes throw around regularly can make it pretty fruitless.

Edited May 20, 2012 by LexiCazam
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[Xerain]

Lots of people have been complaining about the Undying Rage ability on the marauder when all you have to do is cc them when they use it and then use a ranged ability and kill them as soon as the cc is over...really not that bad.

 

Undying Rage is fine, Cloak of pain is the problem its on a 1 min CD and it can last for 30 secs so making it actually a 30 sec CD is what is stupid, and you can spec to where every retaliation you use lowers it by 3 secs, it should be on a 3 min CD like Saber Ward.

 

Post your thoughts here.

 

the thing is retaliation talent to reduce the cool down by 3/6 seconds is terrible, I really don't know any marauders using the talent so it's really not an issue.

Edited May 20, 2012 by LexiCazam
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[Bpotux]

Lots of people have been complaining about the Undying Rage ability on the marauder when all you have to do is cc them when they use it and then use a ranged ability and kill them as soon as the cc is over...really not that bad.

 

Undying Rage is fine, Cloak of pain is the problem its on a 1 min CD and it can last for 30 secs so making it actually a 30 sec CD is what is stupid, and you can spec to where every retaliation you use lowers it by 3 secs, it should be on a 3 min CD like Saber Ward.

 

Post your thoughts here.

 

Great, now also add 99% healing reduction on UR and camo for their duration and I am with you .

Edited May 20, 2012 by LexiCazam
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[TexasJediKnight]

the thing is retaliation talent to reduce the cool down by 3/6 seconds is terrible, I really don't know any marauders using the talent so it's really not an issue.

 

Yes but that still is helpful and Cloak of Pain is still on to low of a CD and you didn't respond to the other statements i made.

Edited May 20, 2012 by TexasJediKnight

[TexasJediKnight]

Great, now also add 99% healing reduction on UR and camo for their duration and I am with you .

 

UR would not be good to add that too because of pve.

[TexasJediKnight]

A no healing received debuff during camo would be fine though instead of increasing the cd and it would not affect PvE becuase it only lasts around 4 secs (i think may a little longer correct me if I'm wrong).

[Xerain]

A no healing received debuff during camo would be fine though instead of increasing the cd and it would not affect PvE becuase it only lasts around 4 secs (i think may a little longer correct me if I'm wrong).

 

I'm pretty sure Camo dumps aggro back to 0 in pve anyways so in pve it'd just make the healer have to wait 4 seconds... which he could die in that time or when it wears off he could die.

 

 

 

Everything is fine with marauders. If i have to react to your skills and things you do to beat your class you should have to react to mine and yes that does include blowing cooldowns and cc's.

 

Whenever a marauder uses ravage on me i camo it.

Whenever a marauder pops undying rage on me I choke him through it.

 

^that stuff isn't hard to do. How any ranged class lets anyone get ravage/master strike off on them is just stupid because as melee i can get around it 100% of the time.

Edited May 20, 2012 by LexiCazam
Inappropriate content

[dcgregorya]

Lots of people have been complaining about the Undying Rage ability on the marauder when all you have to do is cc them when they use it and then use a ranged ability and kill them as soon as the cc is over...really not that bad.

 

Undying Rage is fine, Cloak of pain is the problem its on a 1 min CD and it can last for 30 secs so making it actually a 30 sec CD is what is stupid, and you can spec to where every retaliation you use lowers it by 3 secs, it should be on a 3 min CD like Saber Ward.

 

Please feel free to Rate this so it can get more attention from Bioware.

Post your thoughts here.

 

99% damage reduction is fine. 20% is way OP tho.

Edited May 20, 2012 by LexiCazam
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[Dencre]

You complain too much? How about we just take away everyone's abilities and we slap each other to death?

[Ster-Ling]

Wow, someone actually gets that Cloak of Pain is the best CD a Marauder has.

 

I'm impressed.

 

I'm not really convinced that marauders need a nerf, though. Both my gunslinger and assassin counter them very well.

 

It's funny though, how people write off Cloak of Pain saying "just kite it out for 6 seconds" like the marauder won't take splash damage from someone else, or like you have a root or snare or stun that deals zero damage (damage will refresh the bubble). Kiting out the bubble only works if you can snare/root him without doing damage because he can either snare or root you (or both).

 

Consider this: if a Marauder can kill you in under 30sec (and he is a chimp if he cannot), then Cloak of Pain will either be up for the entire fight, in which case he takes 20% less damage from all your attacks, OR you do no damage to him for more than 20% of the fight. In either case, your ablity to kill the marauder quickly is dimished 20%. By just that one cooldown. And he has 3 other good ones.

 

Of course, the advantage to the "do no damage for 6 sec" approach is that maybe you can kite him successfully without refreshing the bubble, either by having a snare or knockback or root or something that does zero damage, or maybe you have an 8sec mez and his cc break is on CD. Or maybe he really is a chimp and won't even attempt to snare or root you, or he turns so poorly you can easily stay behind him.

 

Hey, at least if you aren't damaging him, you won't be helping him kill you by damaging yourself.

 

L. O. L.

 

But yeah, "Just don't attack him for 6 seconds," would be a crappy suggestion if it weren't your best option.

 

Cloak of Pain is just that good.

[dcgregorya]

 

Hey, at least if you aren't damaging him, you won't be helping him kill you by damaging yourself.

 

L. O. L.

 

But yeah, "Just don't attack him for 6 seconds," would be a crappy suggestion if it weren't your best option.

 

Cloak of Pain is just that good.

 

It's 20% dam redux and a crappy tankable damage prog once per GCD. It's meant to offset the fact that ranged people shooting at the marauder can own him while changing targets for him takes significantly longer and usually means dying if you can't vanish and heal up first. Honestly you're overstating how good it is.

[Ster-Ling]

It's 20% dam redux and a crappy tankable damage prog once per GCD. It's meant to offset the fact that ranged people shooting at the marauder can own him while changing targets for him takes significantly longer and usually means dying if you can't vanish and heal up first. Honestly you're overstating how good it is.

 

Taking out of context the fact that it has better than 50% combat uptime or forces your opponents to stop attacking you for 10% of its base cooldown. Either way, that's 10% reduction of incoming damage over the course of a WZ.

 

Compare to Saber Ward. 3 minute cooldown, 12 second duration (6.6% uptime). Reduces incoming damage by approximately 40% assuming an even distribution of white and yellow damage. That's less than 3% reduction in damage over time, though this can be leveraged in warzones by saving it for when you are focused. But still a less effective survival tool than simply keeping Cloak of Pain on cooldown.

 

Compare to Force Camouflage. A tactical cooldown more than a mechanical damage reduction, but one could think of it in two ways. In one way, it's 50% damage reduction for 4 seconds every 45. Not quite 9% combat uptime, that works out to 4.5% mitigation. Looking at it another way, if nobody can target and attack you for 4 seconds out of 45, that's 100% mitigation with 8.8% uptime. Either way, it's not as good as Cloak of Pain from the standpoint of reducing the damage you take, even used optimally for that purpose (which is absurd). Mainly a tactical solution though, so arguably better than CoP depending on how creatively you use it.

 

Compare to Undying Rage. 99% damage reduction for 5 seconds out of 90. With less than 6% combat uptime and costing half your remaining health, it's clear to see that this cooldown does less to keep you alive over the course of a warzone than Cloak of Pain. It sure does frustrate people though.

 

Oh, and apart from mitigating more damage, CoP also procs damage back to your attackers. Calling the proc "crappy" is looking a gift horse in the mouth.

 

Cloak of Pain is the best CD a marauder has and should be kept on cooldown.

Edited May 20, 2012 by Ster-Ling

[Tatebomb]

Great, now also add 99% healing reduction on UR and camo for their duration and I am with you .

 

Frankly that is ridiculous. What good would either one be then? The only way I can see that 99% healing reduction on UR is if UR makes you totally immune to all forms of CC. If they do anything(which I truly doubt since UR isn't OP) it would probably a CD increase which would be fine really. Make the CD 3 min and it won't affect PvE and won't pop often enough for you to rage out about it.

[Astarica]

I'm pretty sure Cloak of Pain just adds 20% to all your existing mitigation, i.e. if it was 20% then it becomes 40%, since that's pretty much how almost every mitigation modifier talent/skills work in this game, so the benefit is more than 20%. If your base mitigation is 20%, Cloak of Pain bumps it up to 40%, and you're going from 0.8X damage taken to 0.6X damage taken, which is a 25% reduction.

 

It is really not practical to just let Cloak of Pain fall off because that pretty much involves giving the Marauder 6 seconds of freedom to do whatever they want even in a 1on1 situation.

 

The problem is that because Cloak of Pain is indeed very strong, it's not clear what happens if you nerf it. It's possible Marauders might even become too weak. In theory there's a PTS for this but we didn't even get ranked WZ tested on time which sounds like it ought to be easier to test (just get people to play the game) then something that actually could take a lot of effort to figure out the exact impact.

 

I'd start with nerfing Force Camo to 3 minute CD to standardize it with other Vanish-type effects and see if this works. Of course if this works, then my class (Tankasin) is probably next to be nerfed, but I'm almost done with my WH armor!

[Odahviin]

Lots of people have been complaining about the Undying Rage ability on the marauder when all you have to do is cc them when they use it and then use a ranged ability and kill them as soon as the cc is over...really not that bad.

 

Undying Rage is fine, Cloak of pain is the problem its on a 1 min CD and it can last for 30 secs so making it actually a 30 sec CD is what is stupid, and you can spec to where every retaliation you use lowers it by 3 secs, it should be on a 3 min CD like Saber Ward.

 

Please feel free to Rate this so it can get more attention from Bioware.

Post your thoughts here.

 

Wow just WOW,

 

I mean is there anything else about the marauder AC you QQ'ers want to cry about?

 

how bout the fact that we can physically move in a warzone?

 

or perhaps that we can use 2 lightsabers

 

I mean ***.............

Edited May 20, 2012 by LexiCazam
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[Frostbyt]

Yeah good luck cc the marauder with full resolve

[Xerain]

Taking out of context the fact that it has better than 50% combat uptime or forces your opponents to stop attacking you for 10% of its base cooldown. Either way, that's 10% reduction of incoming damage over the course of a WZ.

 

Compare to Saber Ward. 3 minute cooldown, 12 second duration (6.6% uptime). Reduces incoming damage by approximately 40% assuming an even distribution of white and yellow damage. That's less than 3% reduction in damage over time, though this can be leveraged in warzones by saving it for when you are focused. But still a less effective survival tool than simply keeping Cloak of Pain on cooldown.

 

Compare to Force Camouflage. A tactical cooldown more than a mechanical damage reduction, but one could think of it in two ways. In one way, it's 50% damage reduction for 4 seconds every 45. Not quite 9% combat uptime, that works out to 4.5% mitigation. Looking at it another way, if nobody can target and attack you for 4 seconds out of 45, that's 100% mitigation with 8.8% uptime. Either way, it's not as good as Cloak of Pain from the standpoint of reducing the damage you take, even used optimally for that purpose (which is absurd). Mainly a tactical solution though, so arguably better than CoP depending on how creatively you use it.

 

Compare to Undying Rage. 99% damage reduction for 5 seconds out of 90. With less than 6% combat uptime and costing half your remaining health, it's clear to see that this cooldown does less to keep you alive over the course of a warzone than Cloak of Pain. It sure does frustrate people though.

 

Oh, and apart from mitigating more damage, CoP also procs damage back to your attackers. Calling the proc "crappy" is looking a gift horse in the mouth.

 

Cloak of Pain is the best CD a marauder has and should be kept on cooldown.

 

These statistics are what? only if the marauder is always being attacked?

 

Cloak of Pain is always on cool down and it never lasts the full 30 seconds, being targetted and damaged is usually over pretty quickly when the person dies or targets are switched so it falls off pretty fast and it refreshes everytime you take damage. The only way i keep it up for 30 seconds is huttball if i'm running the ball or i get lucky and there's a dot on me but i premade a lot so i get hit with a cleanse quite a bit causing it to fall off.

 

Ranged has a great tool to keep the majority of damage on them... It's called standing 30m away.

[Blloodbane]

Oh look another thread by people who hate Marauders and Sentinels, AGAIN...

 

People who want Mara's and Sents nerfed, dont get it, at all. If everyone had it their way, the entire class would be nerfed in to the ground. Some of the same posters just want them to lose certain abilties because of envy and want them for their class (looks at Juggs and Guardians).

[AidenPryde]

A no healing received debuff during camo would be fine though instead of increasing the cd and it would not affect PvE becuase it only lasts around 4 secs (i think may a little longer correct me if I'm wrong).

 

Force Camo is not a get out of combat ability.

 

The Marauder remains in combat even though the target cannot see him and is just a PvP/PvE aggro dump.

 

The Operative vanish on the other hand does remove the Operative from combat, which is why there is a healing debuff associated with it.

 

As long as the two abilities are different in this KEY way, this kind of change would be madness.

[tynt]

Ya thE problem with marauders is that they have it all. They are slightly overpowered and everyone knows it. Insane dps and great survivability... Not to mention 3 great talent trees.

 

At least we can focus a power tech and kill them almost instantly..

[Gomex]

Yeah good luck cc the marauder with full resolve

 

whose fault is that...the class or your team?

[Gomex]

Force Camo is not a get out of combat ability.

 

The Marauder remains in combat even though the target cannot see him and is just a PvP/PvE aggro dump.

 

The Operative vanish on the other hand does remove the Operative from combat, which is why there is a healing debuff associated with it.

 

As long as the two abilities are different in this KEY way, this kind of change would be madness.

 

About time somebody countered every op/sin crying about their healing debuffs compared to marauders

 

I'd take a debuff any day if I knew I can get out of combat and heal back to full around a corner

[TexasJediKnight]

These statistics are what? only if the marauder is always being attacked?

 

Cloak of Pain is always on cool down and it never lasts the full 30 seconds, being targetted and damaged is usually over pretty quickly when the person dies or targets are switched so it falls off pretty fast and it refreshes everytime you take damage. The only way i keep it up for 30 seconds is huttball if i'm running the ball or i get lucky and there's a dot on me but i premade a lot so i get hit with a cleanse quite a bit causing it to fall off.

 

Ranged has a great tool to keep the majority of damage on them... It's called standing 30m away.

Are you seroius there are DoT's and AoE damage everywhere, and even if it doesnt last for the full 30 secs it can still last 12 or 18 etc. and its on too low of a CD.