Will Bioware do anything about hacking?

[Hawk-Firestorm]

This is the paradox.

 

You can patch till the cows come home but you can't stop it clientside, the reason being is what can be done, can be undone by 1000's of more tallented people because they have direct access to the files and data, the machine its being processed on and the memory its being stored/processed in.

 

Other than programming the client to identify if files have been modified, which can also be interefered with as that's also based on the client machine, gathering data never mind being able to process data from so many systems remotely, even if it were actually practical never mind possible, would most likely be illegal in many countries.

 

You can have a server with millions of satellites and keep logs and datamine till the end of time, within the bounds of the law, but the other way around well...

 

I think someone utterly messed up, like someone standing on the hindenburg asking if anyones got a light, messed up.

 

They may indeed fix it, that is until someone figures out another way to bypass the fix they put in because its all clientside.

 

Ultimately there may not be a solution to such a fundemental flaw in the design.

Edited June 8, 2012 by Hawk-Firestorm

[LancelotOC]

Yesterday a PT pulled me , I sprinted away and as my sprint ended he pulled me again. I was certain this was some sort of cooldown hack but a different PT told me that occasionally the server bugs and pulls a person sprinting twice.

 

I guess my point is there are hacks but some of it is also game bugs.

[MetalHed]

Look I'm no expert or hacker nor do I know any, however I play with some pretty computer savvy people (who also NEVER hack) and I've heard them mention that the real problem is the huge amount of client side data that should have been server side. I've heard this talk since day 1...just sayin'.

[MetalHed]

 

I think someone utterly messed up, like someone standing on the hindenburg asking if anyones got a light, messed up.

 

Ultimately there may not be a solution to such a fundemental flaw in the design.

 

This is what I've heard...edited for shortness and awesome joke. Fluid's out, here's some matches.

[Krakov]

Nothing like watching one ball carrier jump across x2 ramps into the end zone...and another one going from the floor to the highest ramp and then sprinting in for the win...absolutely no one around, no one pulled, grappled, blah blah blah...and I didn't miss seeing something either...

 

No one hacks at all in this game, it's impossible according to a lot of the other players, and I'm just seeing things with my tin foil hat and rose colored glasses on again I guess...

[Buffdog]

This is a great thread and does make me feel like I'm not the only one who sees things that look really suspect. The thing that I've seen lately has been the Bots. People are using macro's with bots that auto counter certain moves. I have a full War-Hero Shadow and a BM/WH Guardian and I've noticed no matter how the rotation, almost 5 or 6 times a round now as soon as I hit force-sweep, I instantly get knocked back by classes with knock-backs and hit nobody with my biggest AoE hit. Really upsetting when you pop a relic and an adrenal and then have to wait on 3 to 4 cool-downs to use it again. Thought it was just good timing until I mixed up the rotation a few times and also waited a few seconds on a few very questionable players, and same result. That kind of luck would win lots of money playing the lottery, but instead, it results in lots of WZ losses. I even tried it by jumping off of ledges and people managed to knock me back with they're backs to me or while in the middle of a cast attack on someone else. There is definitely some cool-down business going on too. I have died 3 times with my Force -stun still on cool-down to only be stun'd as soon as I reach the battle by the same people. I think that there is only a few really talented low-lives out there and they try and tweak the hacks. Once they get them down, then all the fair-weather hackers start using them.

 

I went from winning between 40% to 60% of my War-Zones to 1 out of 50 leading up to 1.2. Then, for about 3 to 4 weeks, we were winning at the same 40%- 60% click again. Now, with the same group, we have suddenly forgotten how to play again and some of the same people that melted like butter are immortal. I got totally melted by a 50 in full recruit gear, 1 on 1 tonight, that not hours ago, I destroyed in a low level WZ with one of my Alts that is only lvl 22. How did this player get so much talent in a few hours to offset my experience of playing 4 months before the game was even released in closed beta? I understand healing and the mechanics, but healing adds health back when damage removes it. I'm seeing no damage even register. I am seeing numbers like 5k and the person is still at 100%. I used Awe on a toon in the fire in Huttball. He had 100% health. He broke the stun as the fire started. I then used the guardian version of force choke for the full duration. This filled up his resolve bar, and he walked out of the fire, past me, and down the ramp. He walked to the end zone with full health, 100%. Yes I reported this person, and yes, I played against him again tonight.

 

Where the hacking seems to be the most effective is with the healers. If one healer is using cool-down hacks, bots, or clipping, they can single handedly dominate just about any round. I have seen healers use force speed 4 to 5 times in less than 30 seconds while my force speed is still on cool-down.

 

THE SOLUTION IS REAL SIMPLE --------PUNKBUSTER!!!!!!!! and post the offenders and they're guild on the fleets. This would not only humiliate the offenders, but would give the entire guild a bad name. Guilds would start to be a little more careful who they let in they're guild as their accomplishments would be seen as a joke if someone was caught hacking from they're guild.

[pooks]

GMs need to participate in warzones really late at night as that is when I see it happen. Like 11pm-1am pacific time on the Fatman.

[Hawk-Firestorm]

Having Gm's about isn't the solution to the problem.

 

Nor is Bioware waving about the odd suspension shouting hey look were doing something.

 

Or indeed trying solely trying to go after those doing it, for every 1 they catch there's going to be 100's they don't.

 

The only solution is stopping peoples ability to do it in the first place.

[beyondkilling]

i have not seen any hacking since 1.2 l2p

[Dayshadow]

I don't disagree, but the best thing you can do is report every player you suspect of hacking. Bioware can investigate and verify on their end whether or not the player was hacking, or if it was a bug in the game itself. Then they can apply punishment and hopefully they can put in measures to prevent that hacking/bugs in the future.

 

Bioware does not care. Report all you want. They aren't doing a damn thing about it.

[Delanay]

I wish BW would start a "Hall of Shame" thread and post every player's name/server who has been suspended for cheating. Not only would it allow the honest players to know who to look out for (and report again if necessary), but we can choose to not party with them, or pvp against them when we find ourselves on opposing sides. If BW doesn't want to stop the cheating, humiliate the cheaters.

[Krenzik]

Bioware does not care. Report all you want. They aren't doing a damn thing about it.

 

^This. So far the biggest action we've all seen taken by GM"s is against perfectly legal open world pvp then slandering those who held them to task for wrongful disciplinary action (which was ultimately reversed.) Bioware's dev team and GM's feel a kinship with the more socially maladjusted players who want no competition and enjoy hacking warzones. Bioware wants you forced into warzones that are being hacked. The clientside elements of the game as well as their behavior in development and Gamemaster behavior have proven it. Until something is tangibly done that cuts against this grain, that's reality.

[matslarson]

I wish BW would start a "Hall of Shame" thread and post every player's name/server who has been suspended for cheating. Not only would it allow the honest players to know who to look out for (and report again if necessary), but we can choose to not party with them, or pvp against them when we find ourselves on opposing sides. If BW doesn't want to stop the cheating, humiliate the cheaters.

 

This, but I'd argue it should go a step further. 1st offence gets you week ban and a red mark by the nameplate on all chars on your account indicating you're a known cheater, similar to the "party plates" many states have to warn drivers about others with a history of drunk driving. That way everyone ingame knows, not just those who memorize the whole list of names on the forum. Second offence is a permaban, end of story. A 1 week ban means nothing when they can come back and start cheating again almost immediately. Getting publicly shamed and gaining a reputation for being worthless, cheating, scum...now that lasts a lifetime.

 

Unfortunately BW's b.s. forum policy means any threads discussing another player in a negative way are automatically closed/deleted, so I'm censoring the name of this player, but to those who say cheating doesn't exist after 1.2, this was fairly recently. I reported them and didn't see them in any warzones for about a week, added them as a friend on my rep alt and didn't see them online there either, but they were on last night.

 

Check those timestamps...yup, that's a .58 second cast time. I got hit with 11 Disturbances in 12 seconds.

 

[20:18:05.366] [@XXXXX] [@Ma'tias] [Disturbance] [ApplyEffect: Damage] (1685* kinetic) <1685>

1.026 [20:18:06.392] [@XXXXX] [@Ma'tias] [Disturbance] [ApplyEffect: Damage] (1022 kinetic) <1022>

0.582 [20:18:06.974] [@XXXXX] [@Ma'tias] [Disturbance] [ApplyEffect: Damage] (1709* kinetic) <1709>

1.000 [20:18:07.974] [@XXXXX] [@Ma'tias] [Disturbance] [ApplyEffect: Damage] (1001 kinetic) <1001>

1.394 [20:18:09.368] [@XXXXX] [@Ma'tias] [Disturbance] [ApplyEffect: Damage] (1051 kinetic) <1051>

Edited June 10, 2012 by matslarson

[Hawk-Firestorm]

Quick question with combat loggin to file enabled where in gods name is the log because its not in the log folder.

[contentment]

I play on a server where my premade are frequently called hackers in pvp by the imperials. Funny thing is how non of us use hacks, but still funny how we get called hackers right?

 

I wonder how many of you actually just call out hacks for the hell of it and how many actually have truthfully seen hacking.

[Krenzik]

I play on a server where my premade are frequently called hackers in pvp by the imperials. Funny thing is how non of us use hacks, but still funny how we get called hackers right?

 

I wonder how many of you actually just call out hacks for the hell of it and how many actually have truthfully seen hacking.

 

And I wonder how many people devote too much time to coming on these forums pretending that hacking doesn't occur? I understand people who haven't played pvp much maybe see the normal and think it fishy, but come on...

[JidaiGeki]

Unless there's concrete evidence, you can claim hacks or lack of hacks until you're blue in the face and it really doesn't mean a thing.

[DarthMondo]

Not saying it is the perfect solution but maybe Bioware could start using Punkbuster to protect against hacks?

When pb detects hacks it could inform the player and Bioware or just inform Bioware and then they decide how to punish them.

This would atleast remove all public hacks that anyone can get with a google search.

Edited June 10, 2012 by DarthMondo

[Xsorus]

This, but I'd argue it should go a step further. 1st offence gets you week ban and a red mark by the nameplate on all chars on your account indicating you're a known cheater, similar to the "party plates" many states have to warn drivers about others with a history of drunk driving. That way everyone ingame knows, not just those who memorize the whole list of names on the forum. Second offence is a permaban, end of story. A 1 week ban means nothing when they can come back and start cheating again almost immediately. Getting publicly shamed and gaining a reputation for being worthless, cheating, scum...now that lasts a lifetime.

 

Unfortunately BW's b.s. forum policy means any threads discussing another player in a negative way are automatically closed/deleted, so I'm censoring the name of this player, but to those who say cheating doesn't exist after 1.2, this was fairly recently. I reported them and didn't see them in any warzones for about a week, added them as a friend on my rep alt and didn't see them online there either, but they were on last night.

 

Check those timestamps...yup, that's a .58 second cast time. I got hit with 11 Disturbances in 12 seconds.

 

[20:18:05.366] [@XXXXX] [@Ma'tias] [Disturbance] [ApplyEffect: Damage] (1685* kinetic) <1685>

1.026 [20:18:06.392] [@XXXXX] [@Ma'tias] [Disturbance] [ApplyEffect: Damage] (1022 kinetic) <1022>

0.582 [20:18:06.974] [@XXXXX] [@Ma'tias] [Disturbance] [ApplyEffect: Damage] (1709* kinetic) <1709>

1.000 [20:18:07.974] [@XXXXX] [@Ma'tias] [Disturbance] [ApplyEffect: Damage] (1001 kinetic) <1001>

1.394 [20:18:09.368] [@XXXXX] [@Ma'tias] [Disturbance] [ApplyEffect: Damage] (1051 kinetic) <1051>

 

Disturbance has a 1 second Cast time...

 

So that's entirely possible what you just said.

[sian_gali]

I wish that was true.

 

I've reported 9 players since 1.15, and all 9 disappeared from the warzones within a couple of days of reporting.

But only 2 of them have not returned 1-2 weeks later (they might just have quit playing altogether, who knows).

 

Yes, Bioware punishes the exploiters, but not harshly enough to be a real deterrent.

 

This. We report people repeatedly for a week or so and finally get a few days of fun equitable warzones. A week later bam, they are back.

[lastrights]

Here is my suggestion don't ban them for cheating permanently we need the population for the game to succeed. Simply delete their character entirely. Legacy and all gone. If you get caught cheating you lose everything on that account and have to start over.

 

That would keep people from using it in my opinion and make it not worth it. Just have to make it so there is no benefit to cheating. Take the reward of cheating away. If you cheat to get rank or gear you lose it all when you get caught and have to do it again. I guarantee it would only happen once or twice before people would stop cheating all together. Oh and on a side note make the character names permanently unavailable so the lose that also.

[matslarson]

Disturbance has a 1 second Cast time...

 

So that's entirely possible what you just said.

 

yup, that's a .58 second cast time

 

There were pauses of several seconds in the middle (because I LoS like a good sorc healer) and then bursts coming in as soon as I was visible again.

 

EDIT: My fault for not clarifying in the first post that I'm a decent player and wasn't just standing there face-tanking the casts for 12 seconds.

Edited June 10, 2012 by matslarson

[Xsorus]

There were pauses of several seconds in the middle (because I LoS like a good sorc healer) and then bursts coming in as soon as I was visible again.

 

I'm not sure what you're really saying.

 

Disturbance is 1 second cast time base.

 

your GCD in this game is based off your cast time, If he has any sort of alacrity at all, It's going to lower that below 1 second cast time, and he's going to just nuke ya down.

 

It's not a cheat, Its how the game actually works.

[matslarson]

I'm not sure what you're really saying.

 

Disturbance is 1 second cast time base.

 

your GCD in this game is based off your cast time, If he has any sort of alacrity at all, It's going to lower that below 1 second cast time, and he's going to just nuke ya down.

 

It's not a cheat, Its how the game actually works.

 

What I'm saying is that I would go behind a column, and then come out and get hit with 3-4 in rapid succession before ducking behind a column, then coming out and getting hit with 3-4 in rapid succession, this is just the first few of the combat log, and the first one that caught my attention for being faster than normal.

 

I understand how the gcd works, and I know what alacrity does. I don't stack it so I'm not positive what it's soft/hard caps might be, but from what I've learned from the amount that comes on my gear by default, stacking enough for a 50-60% reduction in cast time would mean sacrificing pretty much every other stat. And there aren't even mods/enhancements with that much alacrity on them to begin with.

[sauerkraut]

This is getting out of hand.

 

What are you talking about? What is getting out of hand? At least take the effort and explain it. What are those horrible cheats ruin your game experience?

Edited June 11, 2012 by sauerkraut