Can SWTOR be Saved ?

[Celebrus]

You know it would be very interesting if we could see statistics as to who likes the game more, Republic or Imperial players, and which type of player ends up leaving the game more rapidly.

 

This is the first game that I've actually seen a benefit and had an urge to play on both factions in a MMO where there were factions. One of the things I do like about the game is that it at least has a decent core of players at the moment, despite them being limited in number, and playing both sides can have it's benefits.

[Greyhaws]

I swear there is some sort of agency that recruits professionals to diss each other's games. Usually seems to take about a year before the tidal wave of "this game is dying" posts arrive. I guess they recruited people early for TOR.

 

Only thing thats a problem I think is there are FAR too many servers. It was the first thing I noticed when I subbed. More servers = thinly spread out population so the game feels dead. I play EQ2 and there's about 10 servers left there, DDO as well which has a similar amount. This has more than ten times that amount of servers.

 

It also launched without a free to play option which was a really bad move. I hope they are working on a F2P plan.

[pilotjosh]

In my opinion I don't think Free Server transfers, are even close to solving the problem. As it has already been said in here, all server transfers will due, is bleed out already dead and dying servers, and re scatter players into different servers. My thoughts on this game dying or being saved, are not solely due to low population. I am basing my thoughts on the fact that endgame content is just not there. With a total of what 12 Ops bosses, and still no ranked PvP matches, or arena, what is there to do ?! Run boring dailies or space missions that are like playing duck hunter (point and click) ? I just feel that this game got it right on the leveling aspect only. It was fun and exciting rolling new characters, with the story line. As it has been said as well, it feels more like a RPG rather then a MMO , MMO takes a Massive community to make it work. 404 massive community not found. And even if they do end up merging servers to get pops up, you still are dealing with the fact we have nothing to due once we hit level cap. The ops are boring and still buggy, and pvp has been a letdown. So in order for this game to be saved IMO they have to do a lot more then merge servers, its time to go back to the drawing board and start creating fun and exciting ops that don't consist of merely 4 bosses, and having them be either a Droid of some kind, or a monster that is barely larger then my toon. What happened to the intense Massive boss fights, where you walk into the dungeon and say holy **** look at that thing how do we have a chance at killing it!! that wow and awe factor, cannot be found in ANY of the current ops in this game. Us 50s that are fully geared and look identical are sitting here wondering what to do.

[philefluxx]

I love how people think that their experiences are shared by everyone else in exactly the same way. Your SWTOR experience is largely defined by which server you are on. I'm now on one of the aussie servers...Result is 2 instances of fleet because it's so busy. No shortage of people for flashpoints, heroics and other stuff..We even have people pugging the ops for HM and Nightmare. In short, it's probably the ideal situation for Bioware and one which in an ideal world, exactly how they envisaged the game experience to be.

 

And this is exactly why BW no longer gets my money. Nothing against you Aussies, I understand you guys wanted a better ping time etc. But I sure as **** did not wait in 2hr+ queues at launch to ensure I was on a nicely populated server just to have BW sweep the population out from under me by giving you free Xfers and telling the rest of the player base "sometime early summer". I have a sneaky suspicion Im not the only one who has canceled because of this.

[Skidrowbro]

In my opinion I don't think Free Server transfers, are even close to solving the problem. As it has already been said in here, all server transfers will due, is bleed out already dead and dying servers, and re scatter players into different servers. My thoughts on this game dying or being saved, are not solely due to low population. I am basing my thoughts on the fact that endgame content is just not there. With a total of what 12 Ops bosses, and still no ranked PvP matches, or arena, what is there to do ?! Run boring dailies or space missions that are like playing duck hunter (point and click) ? I just feel that this game got it right on the leveling aspect only. It was fun and exciting rolling new characters, with the story line. As it has been said as well, it feels more like a RPG rather then a MMO , MMO takes a Massive community to make it work. 404 massive community not found. And even if they do end up merging servers to get pops up, you still are dealing with the fact we have nothing to due once we hit level cap. The ops are boring and still buggy, and pvp has been a letdown. So in order for this game to be saved IMO they have to do a lot more then merge servers, its time to go back to the drawing board and start creating fun and exciting ops that don't consist of merely 4 bosses, and having them be either a Droid of some kind, or a monster that is barely larger then my toon. What happened to the intense Massive boss fights, where you walk into the dungeon and say holy **** look at that thing how do we have a chance at killing it!! that wow and awe factor, cannot be found in ANY of the current ops in this game. Us 50s that are fully geared and look identical are sitting here wondering what to do.

 

You apparently do not know how transfers work. They will designate servers to transfer to and once people leave the already dead server empty they will close it down and keep going until servers are consolidated

[Gokkus]

I am fairly certain that was a rant...with a whole lot of doomsaying too.

 

Not sure on the exact state of the game since most posts on stocks and subs are biased but as far as I know this game isnt dead. Nor does it have to be saved from something. After server transfers and a LFG tool I really see no reason why this game would die.

[Darkulous]

Cross server LFG did not fix this in wow, it will not fix it here (queues for anything less then bleeding edge content are up in the 30 tp 45 minute range, and then, as stated many many times, are not even dungeon runs but loot races.

Cross Server didn't fix grouping problems in WoW? It didn't solve server population problems? 30 minutes maybe for DPS but at least you can do whatever you want in that time. It's fine if you want to call a dungeon run a loot race but at least players can get loot in WoW because they're able to actually get into the dungeon.

 

You speak of the casual player? You mean the guy that is running the LFG tool at the proper gear level for the dungeon and being chastised, or booted because he does not know the fights, can't put out 18k dps? Are you speaking of the casual tanks that give up after dealing with dps yelling GOGOGOGO, pulling everything in the dugeon, blaming him for being a "newb?" Maybe talking the tank shortage?

 

You're using the less frequent examples of what happens in WoW to support your claims. Let's not pretend bad players only exist in WoW either. DPS players don't pull mobs here? The only reason people run into baddies less frequently here is because players are running far less Instances here than in WoW. Let's not talk about Tank shortages either. Not when this game has a shortage in every department.

 

LFG is not a panacea friend. It was an experiment that suited the direction that wow was heading (quick access shooter). However, it brought with it a game changing group of peripheral problems that are too numerous to make it worth using. Mergers and cross realm LFG will accomplish the same thing with far less of the negatives.

 

Never said X-server was a paradise. I'm just saying the problems this game has right now are significantly bigger than the issues you brought up regarding x-server LFD. I'm more than willing to play with some hotshot DPSer if it means I can run a FP.

[Kleve]

SWTOR cannot be saved. The developers have already infuriated and isolated their original subscribers. Once a dev team leaves that type of impression, the MMORPG community is unforgiving. They have permanantly tainted their reputation at this point and TOR is doomed to be average at best with a small long-term community. The fact that servers already need consolidated is completely ridiculous and a clear sign of things to come.

 

This is the way I feel. The two servers I play on were previously in the Top 10 of populated servers. Now, not so much. And, unfortunately, it's a self-reinforcing cycle. Those of us that ARE continuing to play see a decline in overall population and have a harder time finding people to do things with. Which causes some of us to give up and move on to other things. Which causes the population to decline further, which causes those continuing to play to have a harder time finding people to do things, and so on and so on and so on, ad naseum.

 

Server Merges will come too late. It's already too late. Good for those of you on high pop servers not feeling this pain. Yes, I could re-roll, but why? I already feel punished and dis-incentivized by BW's handling of the situation to continue to support them.

[clintcasey]

My guild leader quit recently. When he left in vent we asked him why he was quitting the game.

 

His answer was, "I love SW:TOR. I think its the best WOW expansion ever made, but I don't play WOW anymore."

[Donniemac]

The Trouble with MMO's is simply that there alot of them out there. Most come to a new MMO and expect the experience to be close to what they have in older MMO's and when they find that it isn't they want to know why. While we know that there are bugs and some things need to be implimented to remedy some of the problems were currently faced with such as underpopulated servers, the addition of more content primarily end game content, rated PVP etc. All these things take time to develop and Bioware in my opinion has been working to fix these issues, add more content, take feedback from players etc. I submitted a ticket twice since launch both times my query was answered quickly, effeciently and to my satisfaction.

 

The best way to see improvement in a product of this calibur is to collectively critique the game, work closely with the developers and tell them intelligently what the problems that we face are. Jumping into a forum and slamming a product or threatening to leave if this doesn't happen tomorrow isn't going to work. We can either collaborate as a community and effect change or we can take our ball and go home or back to wow, EQ or whatever other game you left to come here.

 

Let's take a look at the broad strokes :

 

We would like to see player transfers to more populated servers soon.. Early summer is actually next month by my estimation and not that far into the future.

 

We would like to see rated PVP and the ability to queue as a full ops group.

We would like to see more Operations added..More challenging content to satisfy even the hardcore raiders

A group finder for those of us that want to run FP's

I would personally like to see a guild capital ship added to the game...

3d free flight space combat / missions as well as ship to ship PVP.. I dont know about you guys but the prospect of an armada of fighter craft mixing it up on a larger scale just sounds awesome.

I would like to see an improved Ilum as it was intended a PVP planet where you have to complete objectives and dare the other faction to stop you as well as the dailies and heroics.

Guild based objectives and rewards for completing them..

 

And I'm sure thats just to name a few. Now back to the point at hand Can SWTOR be saved ? My answer is yes if we all stick together as one voice and effect change and improvement. If we all just up and quit your not giving Bioware or any other gaming company any incentive to do whats needed to improve the product.

 

I personally enjoy the game I would like to see it improve and I'm in it for the long haul. If we give the devs time to fix it and they don't then we have a legitimate reason to complain. The game is only a few months old and by my estimation is a good product with the potential to be a great product.. Hang in there.. Lets see where were at a month or two from now.

[Darkulous]

My guild leader quit recently. When he left in vent we asked him why he was quitting the game.

 

His answer was, "I love SW:TOR. I think its the best WOW expansion ever made, but I don't play WOW anymore."

 

This game has none of the features WoW has. Let's not even talk about gameplay or performance. Competitive PvP? If this is a WoW clone than EA/BW did a piss poor job of it.

[Kubernetic]

And this is exactly why BW no longer gets my money. Nothing against you Aussies, I understand you guys wanted a better ping time etc. But I sure as **** did not wait in 2hr+ queues at launch to ensure I was on a nicely populated server just to have BW sweep the population out from under me by giving you free Xfers and telling the rest of the player base "sometime early summer". I have a sneaky suspicion Im not the only one who has canceled because of this.

 

You're really just completely off base here.

 

Nothing at all is preventing you from re-rolling a new character on a more populated server now to enjoy those benefits except your own refusal to do so.

 

On the other hand, the Aussie players who were on US servers were facing impossible lag times that fundamentally ruined the game experience for them in a way US users on US servers wouldn't understand unless you've got really dirty cable or internet connections. I'm talking about you not being able to move, fire, or heal yourself while your opponents are beating the crap out of you and only getting to move every couple of seconds or so unplayable.

 

You just have to select a new server and start enjoying your play time. They'd have had to move to an entirely new continent and country in real life. It made much more sense to help those players get a major improvement to game playability than transfer you immediately, if you ask me.

 

Or, of course, the other alternative was simply for Aussie players to wait until the game launched in their region before playing, and then they wouldn't have had those problems. But then again, if THAT is your take, then your other alternative is to wait in similar fashion for server transfers that are coming as quickly as they can finish the product.

[darth_asinine]

Here is my two cents:

1. F2P. Not many new players are going to be willing to pay a subscription at this point anyways.

2. Implement Server Transfers without any loss to the player

3. LFG tool or at least make it possible solo flashpoints and Heroics so that we can all see the rest of the story.

4. Change UI to something that resembles STAR WARS rather than WoW. Have class-specific UI graphics.

5. Greatly reduce the cost of crafting, upgrading, and repairing gear. Increase random drops for crafting schematics of rare items which cannot be bought from vendors (*ahem crystals) Add a tool that allows the players to design their own weapons and armor's color and ornamentation as an integral part of crafting.

6. Stop nerfing certain classes until they are useless

7. Allow ongoing character appearance customization and more customization options. Right now there is only one male face that I actually like.

8. Eliminate headgear clipping errors for hair and face tendrils in the case of Sith Purebloods

9. Make the graphics less cartoonish in general

10. Fix the engine to decrease loading times

[gurugeorge]

I don't want this post to come off as "screw star wars, this game sucks," or whatever. Im just simply curious if you guys think this game has a future anymore. With the countless bugs and glitches, customer service issues gone unanswered, dying servers, what does bioware need to do to save this game or is it already to late.

 

In my opinion from what I have witnessed is it is to late. I have been a star wars fanboy for life and have been playing TOR since launch back in December. At game launch I remember sitting in que to even get on a server, now im lucky to see 30 people on fleet during peek hours. IMO the leveling part of this game was the best. The story lines with each class were a breath of fresh air compared to traditional mmos. But once you hit 50 the lone "2" operations were laughable at best. Full of bugs that went week after week with no fixes, and "raids" that consisted of 4 bosses. It was extremely underwhelming and even nightmare mode was a breeze for my guild. We had a strong 20+ active members in our guild and consistently did 16man operations 3 times a week. About 2 weeks before 1.2 dropped is when people (at least in our guild) finally had enough. We started seeing players hardly ever logging on, and if they did they were bored in about 15 minutes. Leveling alts seemed to pass the time, until it got to the point where you were the only person on a planet while trying to level and do quests. Forget about running a 4+ heroic on a planet, because there were only about 2-3 people on the planet at any given time.

 

Patch 1.2 drops and honestly I feel that a lot of people were holding out for that patch in hopes it would breathe life into this game again, but it fell very short of doing so. The new raid was an improvement IMO from EV/ KP but, it just simply wasn't enough. The so called "legacy" system was completely useless to any of us endgame players. Its just sad how this game had been anticipated for so many years and this is the end product that we received. Not even 6months into the game and it already is on the verge of dying.

 

My question is this, What can possibly be done to save this game, what can be done to stop the bleeding of thousands of people cancelling there subs every month. Is it to late to save it ?

I hope this game can be brought back with server transfers etc... but i fear its to late, for the proof is in the pudding, I have witnessed a game where I would login to 100+ on fleet getting groups together for flashpoints, leveling, doing operations and pvp, now all i see is people complaining they have been in que for pvp for hours with nothing going on, guilds that have fallen apart due to members losing interest in this game. I truly hope bioware has a fix for this because I feel if something isn't done, and done very quickly, this game will forever be lost and chalked up to another failed attempt to compete with WoW.

 

Any input appreciated, again this thread is not a rant, i Just want to know what we need to do to save/drastically improve this game where its fun and exciting again.

 

Obviously a heartfelt post, a lot of which I agree with in principle. I don't think the game is literally dying or anywhere near it yet, but it's not headed in the right direction, that's for sure.

 

For my money, the biggest problem as a casual gamer is that while the storylines and main quests are great, once you're outside the immersion of those, the game doesn't feel like either a virtual world or an MMO. As a virtual world, it feels linear, claustrophobic and like a series of stage sets. As an MMO, the game is failing big time in its main job - making it possible for people to play with each other.

 

I understand the "community building" arguments con cross-server LFG tool, but I think the situation is getting a bit desperate now. Those arguments would have had weight if we had a bunch of healthy servers, but for people on dying or dead servers, the game is obviously failing them as an MMO, and something needed to be done about it quickly. I cannot understand why BW have been dithering about this, about server merges, and about character transfers. One gets the impression of BW as either covering their *** with PR or living in some kind of alternate reality where there are no problems with the game.

 

Come on BW, I admired the way you fixed the ability delay thing with alacrity, but every problem the game has should have been fixed with the same speed. You're being too slow in bringing the game to the state it should have been on launch.

 

The game needs an absolute ****-ton more variety of content and explorable content, it needs more integration between space and ground, it needs the endgame problems fixed, and it needs a cross-server LFG tool, server merge, character transfer, or some damn thing to solve the problem of extreme difficulty finding people to group with - and it needs these like YESTERDAY.

 

If it doesn't get these things, it's going to go below the magic million subs by the time the next report has to come out. Mark my words BW.

[Musclemary]

you sr have no idea of what the US and EU servers are living atm, and have no idea how it was at the begin.

you are just like you say. talking about your experience

but you do not know how as be for the others, so instead of tell the OP that hes talking about his own very experience and flaming him because of that, you should do what you speak about and be quiet about yours as well.

 

Reroll for many people its a no go, we come to servers with queues at the begin, we level more that one 50

on full servers, now the server die and i have to leave my legacy level 30+ and my 50s, my legacy name, and

my character names and start all over again, on a new server, just because BW cant merge or do transfers

soon?

 

im sorry but you are really being silly. this is not about us hating the game, is about us being hit by BW lack

of communication and effective solutions to the game issues.

and for god sake dont come and tell me *they say tranfers come early summer* because that answer from them

just show they lack of communication.

 

Firstly, i was NOT flaming Him. Secondly, i have been playing since launch so you have NO idea what you are talkign about. I was just sugegsting that his experience is NOT the exclusive and only valid experience of the game. For your information, I did the VERY thing that I was suggesting the OP do. I started out on a US server because there were NO asia pacific servers at launch. I levelled my sorc to 50 and played on that server until the Aussie ones became available. When they did, i created an OP and played that unitl the Aussie transfers were available. When they were, i transferred my Sorcerer over and it joined the legacy of my OP which by that time was already higher than the legacy of my Sorcerer.

 

One of the advantages of this game imo is that there is very little grind. It really takes no time , in comparison with other mmo's, to level and build up your gear. Was it Ideal? No, of course not, but how many times do they have to tell you guys that the transfers are coming until it actually sinks in???

 

But instead of sitting and whining about dead servers , I took matters into my own hands and improved my own gaming experience. So result was 2 geared level 50's, large legacy and well on my way to gearing my 3rd characetr...You aren't abdoning your original characters, they are merely on hold until you can transfer them over. Plus there is nothing stopping you playing them inbetwen times. Server population ebbs n flows... Who is the silly one now?

Edited May 17, 2012 by Musclemary

[Acelo]

I really want it to live. But tons of people yelling about it on the forums isnt gonna make people want to join. Also that half of the people on the forums quit the games because of the cost of buying speeder skills and stuff like that. They should go whine where someone cares.

[Musclemary]

Yes it was. At least, for my former guildmates it was. Bioware has stated that if you have established yourself on your destination server with new characters, and you initiate a transfer of your original characters to that server, the highest of the two legacies will be the one that is recognized.

 

Well that's pretty awesome, I didn't know that. one less thing for the whiners to complain about although Im sure they will!

[Razot]

All the whining and sucking up is irrelevant when the end game blows!

1-49 is pretty good imo, and outside of the dead feeling worlds its still workable. At 50 however its just sitting in a lobby waiting for mini games. Might as well go play Hi-Rez Studios game.

[Runeshard]

With the summer transfers, will legacy be transferred with your character? It wasn't for the aussie servers...

Yes, it will. If you're moving your character(s) to a server where you already have characters and a legacy the more advanced legacy will take over. The lesser one won't be added to it in terms of legacy points gained.

[pilotjosh]

You apparently do not know how transfers work. They will designate servers to transfer to and once people leave the already dead server empty they will close it down and keep going until servers are consolidated

I dont claim to know exactly how it all works, i was just simply stating, that server transfers alone, are not enough to keep this game going IMO, there needs to be alot more done to stop losing subs everyday, and revamp the endgame content, for those of us who literally have nothing to do once we have been 50 for a few weeks and already got all our gear.

[GreySix]

I dont claim to know exactly how it all works, i was just simply stating, that server transfers alone, are not enough to keep this game going IMO, there needs to be alot more done to stop losing subs everyday, and revamp the endgame content, for those of us who literally have nothing to do once we have been 50 for a few weeks and already got all our gear.

 

How many characters do you have? I've got two at Level 50, and working toward end-game on the second 50. Have you rolled any other characters to try out their storylines?

[pilotjosh]

How many characters do you have? I've got two at Level 50, and working toward end-game on the second 50. Have you rolled any other characters to try out their storylines?

 

yea i have a 50 jugg in full rakata, 50 maurderer in full rakata and a 47 merc I am levling still. I want to be clear, I LOVE the story line on the characters leveling IMO is awesome, the story, lore, cutscenes, etc, are awesome and a breath of fresh air from levling a toon on wow. But Im just saying for a MMO I want to see more endgame, that ultimatly is why alot of us are here, alot of people enjoy PvP so they want ranked systems, that shouldnt be to much to ask for, I enjoy operations and flashpoints, I just feel that the operations even Denova have fallin way to short of being amazing star wars raids. Hell even Karazan in wow was more difficult and more exciting to play then ANY of the ops in star wars. I just think to be deemed a good MMO you have to cater to your end game content players. And I feel they they have failed me at this.

[Lu_Bei]

There's nothing wrong with the game in my opinion. I played since October (beta) and I still find the game enjoyable (however, the repetitive gameplay and story can get on my nerves). There's no major problem that should outweigh the shiny bauble that is the first few months.

 

The biggest problem, I think, is that there isn't much community. WoW, in my opinion, is a horrible game, but it has a pretty good community and you can always find fun people to hang out with. I think that's why they retain most of their customers.

 

SWTOR, on the other hand, got all the loners and trolls. In fact, the whole 'troll culture' has made playing online games unbearable. This makes people keep a greater distance from eachother. Even when groups do form in this game, its rare if anyone talks to eachother or continues their gaming relationship after that one group.

 

Another reason might be that the game is so radically different from other themepark MMOs. Most MMOs are made to rush the leveling and play the endgame. SWTOR is a game with short leveling for the leveling (the balk of the game's content is rapped up in the game's 1-49 areas). Most people quickly rush through the game, and find the endgame unsatisfactory. They are used to WoW, probably joining that long after its launch date. In reality, though, WoW had fewer endgame at launch than SWTOR has. Really, its just that most people were expecting an improved, specifically fulfilling version of WoW. That's not possible, because the amount of content in that game is based on 10 years of work and billions of dollars in funding; and no video game can bring your life fulfillment.

Edited May 17, 2012 by Lu_Bei

[Skidrowbro]

 

The biggest problem, I think, is that there isn't much community. WoW, in my opinion, is a horrible game, but it has a pretty good community and you can always find fun people to hang out with. I think that's why they retain most of their customers..

Community, i really am trying not to laugh but besides that it is really hard for people to let go of something they have invested so much time and money in even though none of it exists, that's the part that makes me chuckle even more

 

SWTOR, on the other hand, got all the loners and trolls. In fact, the whole 'troll culture' has made playing online games unbearable. This makes people keep a greater distance from eachother. Even when groups do form in this game, its rare if anyone talks to eachother or continues their gaming relationship after that one group..

Naw, they got what every MMO gets that is released now, WoW players that have to buy it and sub just to bash it

 

Another reason might be that the game is so radically different from other themepark MMOs. Most MMOs are made to rush the leveling and play the endgame. SWTOR is a game with short leveling for the leveling (the balk of the game's content is rapped up in the game's 1-49 areas). Most people quickly rush through the game, and find the endgame unsatisfactory. They are used to WoW, probably joining that long after its launch date. In reality, though, WoW had fewer endgame at launch than SWTOR has. Really, its just that most people were expecting an improved, specifically fulfilling version of WoW. That's not possible, because the amount of content in that game is based on 10 years of work and billions of dollars in funding; and no video game can bring your life fulfillment.

And do you really think those that rushed are the targetted audience for SWToR. In my opinion with the way the game is set up, it is not

[Sarfux]

they won't get it man..the moaners are probably just having 1 or 2 level 50s. Because that's what they are used to. They aren't used to having a story and voice over in an mmo so they just complain there is nothing to do at max level EVEN THOUGH they will NEVER or HAVE NEVER tried any of the other stories out. Even though they say they do. Alts is what this game is. It's what you do in this game. Different choices each time. Different stories each time and YES some of them DO end differently, even if you choose the same class. Depending on your choices you make, you have a different ending. don't even try and cop your way out by saying its not different.

 

People who dont like this game will continue bashing it in any way they can. They don't even try out the stories *the majority of them anyways* and just get one or two to max level and even though there are a TON of different story endings to each class, they won't do it. Ok..cool...it's not for them. Move along

 

IF YOU DONT LIKE MAKING CHARACTER AFTER CHARACTER TO MAKE A NEW STORY WHY ARE YOU ON A STORY DRIVEN GAME!?!!?!