Armormech needs to make armor mods

[acowie]

Armormech doesn't and shouldn't be able to make pieces with mods, it would make the system far to unbalanced. There are two types of gear you make with arms or armormech.

 

Nonmodable:This is the type that is independent. It comes with all the bonuses build in from the start. No need to worry about mods. For an added bonus if you get a crit success it get an augment slot to make it kind of modable. The down side (well up side for an armormech), is you have to get new gear every few levels.

 

Modable: This I think was really smart on the Dev's part. They realize how important it was to people how the characters looked. They also took into account how people in many games state that some times they prefer the look of lower level gear but to wear it would put your toon at a huge disadvantage. Furthermore it leads to almost every lvl 50 of a class looking the same. So they put in modable gear. So that you could keep it throughout the game and still be on par as long as you got the right mods.

 

Furthermore I believe there was concern about abuse if you could make the armor with the mods and things getting out of hand. By making it so you buy the armor from one person and have to have a separate person craft the mods helps to moderate how fast the market gets saturated with epic sets.

[TrevNYC]

Again, you've got to stop treating armor as "more slots" than weapons. Armor is a function, it's one thing broken up into seven bits, just as damage is a function, one thing sometimes kept whole, sometimes broken into two things. Armormech doesn't give you seven different things, it gives you 7/7ths of one thing, that one thing being a complete set of armor, just as Armstech's one thing is a complete weapon.

 

He's talking about stats. The amount of stats a character gets from 7 armor slots exceeds the amount that character gets from just the weapon slots. In other words, the armor crafters have a larger variety of items to appeal to players. I might go to an armstech dealer twice at a given level for a barrel and weapon, but I would go to an armormech dealer 7 times (or one time for 7 items) for a full set. We can't count the full set of armor as "one thing" because the stats don't support that approach, nor do the time and materials required to make that set.

 

I still might go back to that armormech dealer because a higher level set looks better to me (or I might not, that's personal preference). I might go back for an orange shell with an augment (this is confirmed to exist based on the most recent info we have, btw). Plus there are the items that have a particular look without the need for mods. Some people go to Wal-Mart because they can get everything in one place -- some players will prefer to get armor that has all the stats baked in rather than try to track down the right combo of mods to duplicate that.

 

The target audience for armor crafters includes people who want customized shells, people who don't care about customized shells, and people who want the most powerful non-raid gear (because it has augments). The target audience for say, cybertech includes people who want gadgets, people who want mods, and people who want armoring for custom gear. Adding that last market to armormech in addition to what it already has risks an imbalance.

Edited December 23, 2011 by TrevNYC

[SoNofHuD]

I have a level 17 Trooper (had a higher level in beta, but that's where I'm at right now) that is running Armormech right now, but already I have an Orange chest piece, and since there isn't an appearance management system in the game yet, orange gear seems to be the only way not to be at the whim of the random appearance of "whatever you get," so I imagine I'll eventually have an entirely orange wardrobe, at which point, what does Armormech have to offer? Who would want a piece of unmodifiable armor with a fixed appearance that you may or may not like, when you can look however you want using orange gear?

 

As I understand it, Armomech should be able to craft orange "shells", but those shells are completely worthless without the mods that go into them, so once I have the look that I like, being able to craft shells isn't going o be worth any more than being able to craft blue and green gear that I can't equip without changing my look in a potentially negative way.

 

That being the case, Armormech needs a significant change under the current sysem. Either A: they need the ability to make mods, so that an Armormech capable of making level 15 chest pieces can ALSO make the mods that would make an orange chestpiece equally as strong, OR B: there needs to be a better appearance modification system in place that is largely gear-independent, so that a player can equip a level 15 blue or green piece of Armormech armor, take advantage of those stats, without having it mess up his look.

 

From the way I understand it, and what I will focus on is making orange crafted armor. The customer can decide which mods they want but we make "the look" possible as armormech.

[Sotof]

The real problem is that armormech cannot make modifiable gear, not that they cannot make mods. You will be sure to find a market for fashion, but if the gear cannot be modded it is not viable and there is absolutely no incentive to buy the armormech gear.

[Ohoni]

It being less worth because its orange armours depend on Cybertech? Armormech is about the non-Orange armours. Oranges are a different league as far as I know.

 

Yes, but non-oranges are worth less because the game lacks an appearance customization system, so if you go non-orange then you're at the whim of whatever random-### model Bioware chooses to attach to the item, many of which are downright silly looking. Only the orange gear gives you some measure of control of your appearance.

 

From the way I understand it, and what I will focus on is making orange crafted armor. The customer can decide which mods they want but we make "the look" possible as armormech.

 

Yes, which relegates the skill to "hairdresser" status, completely cosmetic and completely unnecessary fluff, rarely needed for anything by anyone.

[BourbonDingo]

I don't agree with your arguing scheme, but....

 

Armormech should be able to provide armor shells, while keeping those shells as armored as possible. (Armor, Armoring)

 

Armstech should be able to provide ranged weapon shells, while keeping those shells as damaging as possible. (Ranged Weapons, Barrels)

 

Artifice... you get my point.

 

I do believe you are missing the point of it being an MMO, and that having Armormech can keep other people in the shells they want. Other people are also capricious, and want to change fairly often.

 

Oh, and keeping with the aesthetic issues this thread is revealing...

 

Make weapons Ctrl-Left Clickable! Show us with the weapon in a ready stance!

Edited December 23, 2011 by BourbonDingo

[silverthorne]

I honestly think it would be easier on the devs to make the base item and make the color palate available to the crafter. I personally hate that my trooper runs around in pristine white armor. I agree with the writer that put the comment forward. Its an "Oh shoot me now, outfit." My preference would be that the devs spend a little time to add the coloring of armor to the game.

[Lexster]

I understand the armorcrafters/synthweavers complaint. The problem with those crafting professions is that everyone is using orange armor types in their slots so there is no real reason to change swap them out for new gear when you can just pop in a mod. Tooltips claim that if you make an exceptional item, you make gear with slots, but with around 200 synthweaving Ive yet to make an exceptional item via crafting(I have learned upgrades from RE'ing, but nothing from actually crafting as a tooltip would hint at). If these classes would have increased chance to proc mod slotted gear that also contained base stats, there would be far more value in them.

[Ohoni]

I do believe you are missing the point of it being an MMO, and that having Armormech can keep other people in the shells they want. Other people are also capricious, and want to change fairly often.

 

I would rather bet on players wanting to tangibly upgrade the strength of their gear, rather than betting on their "capriciousness" in wanting multiple different orange hulls that each offer no mechanical benefit over the other. Sure, there will be people in the latter group, but exponentially fewer than in the former.

[Tweekers]

They need to make it so when you reverse engineer it doesn't just add a single stat, but boosts all the stats across the board. A purple crafted armortech item shouldn't be on par with a custom armor outfitted with only blues.

[Repefe]

Since mods and enchantments for end game come from raid drops ... armorings are kind of the one mod that has it's use for cybertech. If armortech was making that one, what would be the point of cybertech ... ship upgrades and ear pieces ?

[Ohoni]

Since mods and enchantments for end game come from raid drops ... armorings are kind of the one mod that has it's use for cybertech. If armortech was making that one, what would be the point of cybertech ... ship upgrades and ear pieces ?

 

/Sigh. I really wish people would read before posting. Yes, Armormechs would be able to make Armorings for +Aim and +Cun stats, and yes Synthweaving would be able to make Armorings for +Str and +Wil, but neither would be able to make the armorings of the other type, and neither would be able to make Barrels, and Cybertech should be able to make them all, jack fo all trades, master of none. If you want to be the one shop "jedi armor guy" then you can go Synthweave and do that. If you want to be the one shop "non-jedi armor guy" then go Armormech and be that. If you want to be the one stop "mods of any kind guy" then Cybertech should do that. Options, people.

[Repefe]

/Sigh. I really wish people would read before posting. Yes, Armormechs would be able to make Armorings for +Aim and +Cun stats, and yes Synthweaving would be able to make Armorings for +Str and +Wil, but neither would be able to make the armorings of the other type, and neither would be able to make Barrels, and Cybertech should be able to make them all, jack fo all trades, master of none. If you want to be the one shop "jedi armor guy" then you can go Synthweave and do that. If you want to be the one shop "non-jedi armor guy" then go Armormech and be that. If you want to be the one stop "mods of any kind guy" then Cybertech should do that. Options, people.

 

I don't see a reason why Armortech can't get something different that would be unique to their profession instead of have it's crafts overlap with cybertech. There has to be something better. Like I suggested in another thread ... maybe armortech should get the option to pick a skin for the items they craft.

[Ohoni]

I don't see a reason why Armortech can't get something different that would be unique to their profession instead of have it's crafts overlap with cybertech.

 

If you can think of something that would work, feel free to suggest it, but what they have now is far from good enough. They need a way to make orange armors that are viable within themselves, not just empty husks that they have nothing to fill them with. Armorings is the best way I can think to do that but if you have a better idea, go for it. I don't see the problem with having overlap between the crew skills, I think that's a very good thing, to have each skill specialize in a few things, but also dabble in some other stuff that the other skills specialize in, like how gunslinger/Snipers are DPS only, while several other classes can DPS while also having some healing or some tanking capabilities. The ones that can do a little bit extra are clearly superior to those that are only capable of DPS.

 

Like I suggested in another thread ... maybe armortech should get the option to pick a skin for the items they craft.

 

If they could do that it could be worth doing, but it sounds tricky to implement. Like if they could make a top tier purple armor, but instead of getting stuck with whatever model the devs attached to that armor they could choose any unlocked style for it, that could be very cool, but it would be a whole new mechanism that the game doesn't currently include in any form, so I doubt they would do that. We're better off hoping for an appearance tab system, would would automatically fix Armormech's problems (along with many other flaws in the game).

[Terraluna]

I'm sure it's been mentioned here already but the obvious thing for armortech and synthweaving is it's the only way in the game to get orange gear with an augment slot on it.

 

That is pretty much the most desirable thing in the game and considering it's a crit craft and everyone will want their specific look they will be the most lucrative items available.

 

 

say it once again just to make sure. You can get orange gear pretty much anywhere but orange gear with that magical 5th slot is crafted only

[Ohoni]

I'm sure it's been mentioned here already but the obvious thing for armortech and synthweaving is it's the only way in the game to get orange gear with an augment slot on it.

 

I still consider this a rumor. I've heard plenty of people say that they assume this is possible, but I've yet to see a single person claim to have done it themselves, and I've seen plenty of people claim to have made dozens upon dozens of orange pieces without a single Augment slot, so for the time being I think it's safe to say that this is either not a real thing, or, if it is possible, it's far too rare to be considered a function of the set, it's like unicorns.

[Adramelk]

I'm firmly in the camp agreeing with the OP. You can spin and defend it all you want, but there are major structural problems with how the crafting system was implemented. What the OP firmly hit on the head, as I am already seeing it broadly, is that most people as they progress towards 50 pretty much move to only using orange equipment and update the mods. Moreover, this orange equipment is easily obtained from sources other than crafting (drops, vendors, etc), and will not be replaced by most players very often (and by some, never). My take is the devs came up with an original crafting system sans modifiable orange armor, then later came up with the idea and forced it in without overhauling or even tweaking the originally-planned system.

 

As a result, most of the functionality of the crafting skills are simply obsoleted except for the following two points:

 

1) Altering appearance - if someone desires to take a new look, they can buy another orange item and swap their mods. OP is correct in that this will not be very common (not enough I believe to establish a reasonable/profitable market) and it also somewhat turns crafts into appearance botiques ("hairdressers"), which is not very alluring.

 

2) Critted orange gear - if it actually is possible to crit orange gear to add an augment slot, which is not obtainable otherwise, these items will sell for ridiculous sums of money. Two issues I see already mentioned are 1) I have yet to see any of these exist in the wild and have only heard of them as being theoretical on the forums; 2) supposing they actually do exist, the extremely low chance of critting one does not make it viable as an actual craft really.

 

I'm seeing progressively more people coming around to the realization that the only really useful output of the various crafting skills are mods, armoring, hilts, enhancements, and so on. Basically, the item modification section in the GTN for all intents and purposes. Of course, there are implants, relics, etc, but these don't seen broad enough to be profitable either. The narrow-focused topic of this thread (the utility of armormech/synthweaver) is frankly just a small part of what appears to be a large number of inherently structural problems with the crafting system and economy at large as designed. Just see the plethora of other threads on the total lack of utility/reason for crafting skills at lvl 50 due to PvP, PvE, and raid content, as well as currency-related issues caused by slicing.

 

I was initially excited about the SWTOR crafting system, but have become disillusioned very quickly. It's pretty clear at this point the most effective approach to crew skills is to ignore crafting, develop and run an optimal rotation of high-yield slicing missions constantly, and just buy whatever you need. If there existed a crew skill that could create all the mod types, I would just go with that, as well as a strong majority of everyone else. No offense, but I believe most of the naysayers are simply deluding themselves of these problems at the moment.

[Vaestmannaeyjar]

The only problem I see with it is you can get a whole matched suit of orange gear in one afternoon of battlegrounds. Some NPCs offer full sets against credits, too.

 

So, before continuing this way...we need to actually know all the skins that require a player to be made. Just getting shells isn't an issue and doesn't require any crafter. My bank has 15ish orange items in it and I'm only 42.

 

Also, note some orange stuff are just random drops, got some on lousy guards on Tatooine

 

1) I have yet to see any of these exist in the wild and have only heard of them as being theoretical on the forums; 2) supposing they actually do exist, the extremely low chance of critting one does not make it viable as an actual craft really.

 

And without a combat log, we don't know if it's actually worth it of if it's a meaningless upgrade. (ie, one you can live without and still kill bosses)

Edited December 25, 2011 by Vaestmannaeyjar