A short comparison - travel time

[asbalana]

This is meant to compare one aspect of swtor to that other game and suggest that the issue of "getting around" be looked at. I submit the following as just one example of my meaning. I will try to be as accurate as possible, but am sorry for errors.

 

I have my level 50 SI next to the GTN kiosk in fleet and want to do the Correllia dailies. I also have my level 85 Lock standing by the AH in SW and want to do the TB dailies.

 

Other Game -

 

Summon mount. Short flight to portal. Click on portal and after a quick loading screen, I am standing by the quest givers ---> Done.

 

Swtor - Summon speeder. Short run to SI hanger. Click on SI hanger (short load). Speeder run though hanger to ship (short run). Click on ship door (loading screen) and then am in ship. Short run through ship to star map. Click on map, click on region, click on planet, click on travel. Short grapic ensues. Run back through ship to door and click on door. Very long loading screen after space bar click through graphic. Summon speeder and short trip through SI hanger. Click on elevator button, short load. Ride through space port to entrance. Short ride to Shuttle to Black Hole. Click on shuttle door, short loading screen. Run into Imp headquarters. Click on elevator, short load. Short run down ramp to mission terminal ---> Done. I note that this set of dailies (if I am remembering correctly) does not have an Orbital Station that you must make your way through as I remember do the other two daily planets.

 

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I respectfully would submit that something should be done about the effort to get around in the game.

[Delta_Fixer]

I agree that it can be a bit tedious at times getting around as you described. If I am not mistaken, however, they did add the ability to use your mount in orbital stations, hangers, and a few other spots where you couldn't before, thus speeding up the transit time.

 

Maybe they could just cut out the orbital stations so you go straight to the space port on the surface? Not really sure if there's a technical reason for the orbital stations or if there's some other reason they're there, but they don't seem to really serve a purpose from a player's point of view.

[Jenzali]

Summon mount. Short flight to portal. Click on portal and after a quick loading screen, I am standing by the quest givers ---> Done.

 

I always thought the "instant portal to everywhere" was a bit unfortunate for that other game because they made a big expansive world that no one ever got to see, since all they did was sit around in cities and get teleported to places.

[noodlehaus]

I always thought the "instant portal to everywhere" was a bit unfortunate for that other game because they made a big expansive world that no one ever got to see, since all they did was sit around in cities and get teleported to places.

 

i think it actually makes sense. at least for me. i've already explored the maps while leveling, and gone through the waypoints with my leveling quests. at max level, all i want to do is focus on gearing up, clearing end-game content and PvP. the only reason to explore is to farm nodes for crafting, but that's by choice. i don't want to be forced to explore if i have no time or interest in it.

 

and not to forget, the ridiculous amount of load screens you have to go through getting from fleet to your ship to the orbital station to the airlock to the planet. it's just dog balls stupid. this is what primarily drove me to quit.

[TheOnlyKyrenS]

2 different types of mmos. One is fantasy, the other is sci-fi. 2 different tech.

[noodlehaus]

2 different types of mmos. One is fantasy, the other is sci-fi. 2 different tech.

 

it's not really a question of tech, but a question of approach. how much QoL features do you want to give to your players.

 

in wow, the sequence of zones you go through is not strict (ie, starting off as human vs starting off as dwarf, and it goes beyond the starting maps). exploration is also not required. you have the choice to level by questing, or just by sitting in the capital city waiting for LFG to pop. you are not forced to choose either, you can even do both (quest while waiting for LFG to pop).

Edited May 16, 2012 by noodlehaus

[Roccobb]

I just want the shuttles on fleet to go to every planet. Every planet has a shuttle to fleet. Have the terminal near the shuttles become a select a planet.

 

But again, I hate the ship. I hate everything about it, and would love the chance to never board it again. But it would greatly help with all the travel...

[vincent-]

2 different types of mmos. One is fantasy, the other is sci-fi. 2 different tech.

 

Bull crap!

 

Galaxies you had the choice to go into your ship or get to a place quickly.

 

You went to the starport and click on a terminal select the planet than select which starport you want to go with a few mouse clicks than with just one load screen you're there.

 

It's not hard there should be a choice right in the starport either go to the hanger doors or head to the center of the waiting area and click on a terminal with the galaxy map. If there are more options for the planet if the planet has other instances to click too for example corellia. One just needs to select the planet an option of Cnet or black hole than click and done.

[Vonb]

Agreed with OP, this is way tedious and something needs to happen in this department.

 

Doing it several times a day is one thing, seeing in summarised in that post just makes too obvious

 

And to those who argue that travelling should be part of the game I agree, however, it should be meaningfull travelling, with events, exploration and adventure, not just running through corridors and waiting for loading screens... these add NOTHING to the experience, they just waste time.

 

I am all for taking time to travel, provided that said time is entertaining.

 

Now if your spaceship could be ambushed (ok maybe not as I hate the rail shooter space combat, but you get my drift) or something like the NPCs agroing you during the Rakghoul plague event was to occur, it would make sense.

As it is now it doesn't.

 

Or if you actually had to plot your jumps, say with choices of a longer but safer route or a shorter but more dangerous one...

Edited May 16, 2012 by Vonb

[Dawginole]

We just need a shuttle on Fleet that lists all Dailies/Flashpoints/Operations and upon clicking it you choose the Daily/Flashpoint/Operation you want it and it takes you and your party straight to the starting door. Edited May 16, 2012 by Dawginole

[rbkrbk]

This is meant to compare one aspect of swtor to that other game and suggest that the issue of "getting around" be looked at. I submit the following as just one example of my meaning. I will try to be as accurate as possible, but am sorry for errors.

 

I have my level 50 SI next to the GTN kiosk in fleet and want to do the Correllia dailies. I also have my level 85 Lock standing by the AH in SW and want to do the TB dailies.

 

Other Game -

 

Summon mount. Short flight to portal. Click on portal and after a quick loading screen, I am standing by the quest givers ---> Done.

 

Swtor - Summon speeder. Short run to SI hanger. Click on SI hanger (short load). Speeder run though hanger to ship (short run). Click on ship door (loading screen) and then am in ship. Short run through ship to star map. Click on map, click on region, click on planet, click on travel. Short grapic ensues. Run back through ship to door and click on door. Very long loading screen after space bar click through graphic. Summon speeder and short trip through SI hanger. Click on elevator button, short load. Ride through space port to entrance. Short ride to Shuttle to Black Hole. Click on shuttle door, short loading screen. Run into Imp headquarters. Click on elevator, short load. Short run down ramp to mission terminal ---> Done. I note that this set of dailies (if I am remembering correctly) does not have an Orbital Station that you must make your way through as I remember do the other two daily planets.

 

-------------

 

I respectfully would submit that something should be done about the effort to get around in the game.

 

The game is lacking in true content. Travel time was put in as a time sink, to make it more difficult to get through everything. The two most evident (the first being absolutely infuriating) examples are:

 

1. Pre-1.2, while leveling, before and after finishing Chapter 1 (and later 2), you were required to hop between two different planets, a number of times. THEN you had to go to the fleet to interact with someone who had NOTHING to say, simply to waste time and push you back from finishing things as much as possible. After much outcry about how absolutely insulting this was to a player (including quite a furious rant from Penny Arcade's Mike Krahulik), you are now given a fleet pass.

 

2. The travel times in Raids. This was not an oversight or a technical issue. This was done simply for ONE reason. It is a time sink to limit on how much you could accomplish in a day of play in the endgame. To keep you from quitting the game out of boredom, by offering you one of the most boring things you can do; sitting and waiting. All they had to do was create a checkpoint/waypoint once a certain area had been cleared. That's it. It's that simple. That is where you respawn if you die. It doesn't have to be super close. Put an invisible wall on entrances to Boss Fights (since they all have one anyway) to prevent players from entering if they die while the group is in combat.

[Kubernetic]

If they're going to keep with Star Wars lore, matter transporters don't exist, if I'm not mistaken. This ain't Star Trek, after all. We use shuttles and speeders to get around, here.

 

If they can eliminate or minimize the loading screens, I think that will go a LONG way to alleviating these issues.

 

But if they DO end up adding some kind of quick option, maybe there's some way to add in a Legacy feature where you can get a "Shuttle To Anywhere" ability that has a cooldown on it or something, with the cooldown reducible by further unlocks...

 

As a funny aside, here's a brief blip from StarDestroyer.net on transporter technology, and why the Empire would never use such blasphemous methods.

 

Since the original living subject is essentially disintegrated and a functionally identical copy is manufactured from the resulting material, the process effectively constitutes a cycle of death and cloning. This was demonstrated quite clearly in Second Chances when William Riker was effectively duplicated twice, by a transporter mishap. This proved that transportation is actually a disintegration and cloning process rather than a process of intact matter translation, in spite of Federation cultist claims to the contrary. Although some might claim that life continues if a precise duplicate is created from the original, many feel that the discontinuity of consciousness represents death. This may be regarded as a mere philosophical issue, but our officers and scientists are unanimous in their condemnation of this process as an unconscionable concept.

 

Read more from StarDestroyer.net here. GREAT site, especially for hybrid Star Wars / Star Trek fans.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Special/Special1.html

Edited May 16, 2012 by Kubernetic

[Nyla]

The game is lacking in true content. Travel time was put in as a time sink, to make it more difficult to get through everything. The two most evident (the first being absolutely infuriating) examples are:

 

1. Pre-1.2, while leveling, before and after finishing Chapter 1 (and later 2), you were required to hop between two different planets, a number of times. THEN you had to go to the fleet to interact with someone who had NOTHING to say, simply to waste time and push you back from finishing things as much as possible. After much outcry about how absolutely insulting this was to a player (including quite a furious rant from Penny Arcade's Mike Krahulik), you are now given a fleet pass.

 

2. The travel times in Raids. This was not an oversight or a technical issue. This was done simply for ONE reason. It is a time sink to limit on how much you could accomplish in a day of play in the endgame. To keep you from quitting the game out of boredom, by offering you one of the most boring things you can do; sitting and waiting. All they had to do was create a checkpoint/waypoint once a certain area had been cleared. That's it. It's that simple. That is where you respawn if you die. It doesn't have to be super close. Put an invisible wall on entrances to Boss Fights (since they all have one anyway) to prevent players from entering if they die while the group is in combat.

 

1. It's your POV, I already have a fleet pass at that time, so not really a problem for me. Also, you missed another reason we are sent there, it's to give players acces to bonus quest series if people takes the time to explore the fleet.

 

2. Again, just your opinion on why they did or didn't do something.

 

I understand every designer use timesinks, I also agree that something should be done to improve TOR in that field but no, they couldn't have done everything people asks at launch without postponing the game one more year.

 

As for the comparison with that game, they changed so many times their stances there that I don't know how you can use it as good practices in a MMO. They got slow taxis, portals (but they added some they removed later) and imo the result of all their changes on travel when I last played it was that they managed to shrink a big world in something so small I thought it was quite bad choices.

[Chinsei]

Personally i don't mind..slow trips i tend to walk everywhere(sometimes i may feel impatient and run) quick travel.. swoops kinda i don't see the point..though i tend to consider myself an rp'er o.o though i don't really socialize much..

 

generally i think it'd be nice if we could be in the ship , give one of our companions an order- or pilot ourselves and take the ship to where we wanna go with out the load screen maybe a somewhat slower travel time there..perhaps add windows to the ship so sight seeing could occur...

 

I don't like rushing through everything but, i think it'd also add fun to it if we could play pazaak during trips..maybe actualyl talk to and get to know the companions more..not just as there affections increases/decreases.

 

I like the ship..i think its kinda cool though i'd like to customize it more..paint the colours...edit the interior..but generally i think the travel is generally one of the less important aspects .

 

however there should always be choices for people, instant , slow, inbetween. ideally i'd like the interior of the ship to open when i go into the hangar, and then i could just walk into the ship,the door auto sliding open when i approach.

 

and go through the ship, do whatever it is i'm there to do with the ship. before the 'loading' and taking off. it at minimum would remove on e or two load screens..especially if you're simply going on the ship for a brief moment to talk to a companion , or using the holo terminal for a quest.

[Roccobb]

If they're going to keep with Star Wars lore, matter transporters don't exist, if I'm not mistaken. This ain't Star Trek, after all. We use shuttles and speeders to get around, here.

 

If they can eliminate or minimize the loading screens, I think that will go a LONG way to alleviating these issues.

 

But if they DO end up adding some kind of quick option, maybe there's some way to add in a Legacy feature where you can get a "Shuttle To Anywhere" ability that has a cooldown on it or something, with the cooldown reducible by further unlocks...

 

As a funny aside, here's a brief blip from StarDestroyer.net on transporter technology, and why the Empire would never use such blasphemous methods.

 

 

 

Read more from StarDestroyer.net here. GREAT site, especially for hybrid Star Wars / Star Trek fans.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Special/Special1.html

 

What are those transporters on the prison world? You magically enter one, come out far away. They are transporters. No, I don't think in the lore this was in it. However, in this game it is, and therefore lore does not matter when it comes to the game.

[Willhousefour]

Well, the OP comparison is a little extreme. Most daily quests in WoW require a griffon/wyvern ride to the quest givers at least (adding a minor time sink). For example, the Molten Front Dailies weren't as accessible as TB. Even with TB, if your faction had the island, you did have to run up to the prison to get all the quests (another time sink). Further getting around in WoW isn't always great and without mage portals can be downright tedious at times. Continent to continent travel can require boat rides, loading screens, long griffon/wyvern flights.

 

I short, I don't find the comparison to WoW entirely fair, but I would like swtor to automate travel better and reduce many of the steps required. I'm not crazy about orbital stations and elevators.

[xandax]

If they're going to keep with Star Wars lore, matter transporters don't exist, if I'm not mistaken. This ain't Star Trek, after all. We use shuttles and speeders to get around, here.

<snip>]

 

'Shuttles' that can pick you up inside a cave and transport you to either a 'bind' location or fleet is effectively 'matter transporters'. So apparently - it's Star Trek??!

Exit Area inside a dungeon is also teleportation,

Plus as mentioned - the teleportation on Belsavis.

 

So .....

 

 

 

Personally i don't mind..slow trips i tend to walk everywhere(sometimes i may feel impatient and run) quick travel.. swoops kinda i don't see the point..though i tend to consider myself an rp'er o.o though i don't really socialize much..

<snip>.

 

It's not travel time that's an issue as such.

It's the number of transitional screens and loading screens - some of rather long duration - all over.

Something Bioware said they'd keep to a minimum back in the development days. If this is minimum .... I'd hate to see what they consider average or max

Edited May 16, 2012 by xandax

[mdob]

I agree that travel time is painful.

 

I don't know that a shuttle to each planet is the answer though as it bypasses your ship.

 

Perhaps the class hangar portals should show a cut scene of you getting on your ship, sitting in your pilot seat and taking off, and the reverse could be done when landing at a planet? That would at least cut down on some of the annoyance without bypassing your ship.

 

I suppose for dailies you could have NPCs recruiting individuals and offering to shuttle them back and forth?

 

I'm hoping the LFG tool will shuttle you directly to the FP but they haven't mentioned anything like that so far.

Edited May 16, 2012 by mdob

[ZenMorph]

It's not travel time that's an issue as such.

It's the number of transitional screens and loading screens - some of rather long duration - all over.

Something Bioware said they'd keep to a minimum back in the development days. If this is minimum .... I'd hate to see what they consider average or max

 

I'm with you on that. I don't so much mind the time as I do the abundant clicking of elevator buttons and doors, etc. It would be nice if were just a little more "hands-off." That way I have a few minutes to stuff my face with chips and beer.

[jgelling]

Maybe they could just cut out the orbital stations so you go straight to the space port on the surface? Not really sure if there's a technical reason for the orbital stations or if there's some other reason they're there, but they don't seem to really serve a purpose from a player's point of view.

 

The orbital stations serve a CRITICAL purpose in this game!!! Without the orbital stations, how would you know you're about to be obviously surprised ambushed outside your ship's airlock?

 

If you could just go straight to and from your ship, the game couldn't direct you to go "outside the airlock to your ship" instead of the usual "use your ship's holo terminal" so you can be ambushed on the way.

 

I mean duh, you can't fight comfortably on your own ship so the orbital stations are a nice location for the obvious surprise ambush.

 

In patch 1.3, surprise ambushes will be marked with a triangle on the map to address this issue, however, and then the orbital stations can be dispensed with.

Edited May 16, 2012 by jgelling

[mdob]

The orbital stations serve a CRITICAL purpose in this game!!! Without the orbital stations, how would you know you're about to be obviously surprised ambushed outside your ship's airlock?

 

If you could just go straight to and from your ship, the game couldn't direct you to go "outside the airlock to your ship" instead of the usual "use your ship's holo terminal" so you can be ambushed on the way.

 

I mean duh, you can't fight comfortably on your own ship so the orbital stations are a nice location for the obvious surprise ambush.

 

Once you choose the planet you want to fly to, they should just do a cut scene of you getting to the planet surface and just interrupt that if an ambush is set to occur in your story.

[Socialist]

You guys are spoiled.

 

 

Can't fancy your precious pixel legs to walk a bit?

[jgelling]

Once you choose the planet you want to fly to, they should just do a cut scene of you getting to the planet surface and just interrupt that if an ambush is set to occur in your story.

 

Sure, but shouldn't you have the option of walking the long unnecessary distance to your guided ambush?

 

That's what I like to call, "player involvement."

[mdob]

You guys are spoiled.

 

 

Can't fancy your precious pixel legs to walk a bit?

 

I play games for FUN. Travel is the opposite of fun. So is Trolling to me, but apparently we differ.

[NoaFlux]

I agree in many ways. This is a common RPG/MMORPG problem.

 

Everyone I meet mentions this when we talk about one of these games including TOR.

 

I recently made a similar post as well, though it doesn't mention getting around in the game,

it speaks of the exhuastiion (caused by tediousness) of the game. i focused more so

on just missions and how the game is organized, but walking around adds to what I call

...The Blob. Let me know what you think....

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=456272

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In my opinion I can understand both sides of this story.

The SWTOR world's must be experienced> But it becomes stressful, just walking around.

 

This is one of the major paradox's of modern gaming, and is a challenge for every developer

and again it goes deeper with...the world, missions, and UI's become plagued by just being TOO LARGE.

Here's what they got right;

 

-Letting the character explorer, and restrict speed at lower levels. As you grow in experience points

you can run faster, get vehicles, use quick travel etc.

 

-Speed boost is fun.

 

-Even though it was annoying at first, having Taxis, Vehicles, and Quick Travel make traveling interesting.

 

-Different kinds of taxi's (like on Alderaan, Elysium Thranta and more?). Please give us more different kinds of taxi's!

 

What needs change;

-In conjunction with "Legacy"

when you are playing as any of your second or third

characters have the speed increased since we have already experienced most of the game.

 

-There needs to be a little bit more speed ...everyone still agrees on this

its just a matter of finding that balancing point and Bioware is close. I would suggest...some easy to grab

speed points on the Skill Tree. There are many options for increasing speed in general.

Edited May 16, 2012 by NoaFlux