Trying to understand why merc doesnt have certain skills

[Vaerak]

First off id like to say that i an NOT qqing about mercs or asking for new skills i am simply trying to understand why the class is how it is, i figured id ask people more experienced than i am.

 

I play a shadow and a merc both recently got to 50 and have 4-5 BM pieces each, i recently went back to playing my shadow after playing my merc for almost 2 weeks and i now really notice all the skills merc misses out on.

1) no interrupt

2) no mobility skills (jump, sprint, etc) or escape mechanism

3) no execute

 

so first the lack of interrupt, im not sure if its really necessary for us to have but seems strange to be the only one without it, against dps classes i just try to LoS them and avoid the damage, healers are rough but can usually burst them down by using electrodart right as thermal det goes off so i can do my combo, if there guarded then no chance and interrupting the next heal would be nice but perhaps too strong since the burst we do is so high before taking into account not letting them heal.

Second is the lack of mobility skills and/or escape mechanism, i know jet boost can throw melees off you but they usually have a jump/pull to brIng you back, also curious why someone with a JETPACK doesnt have a jump or sprint/boost skill(think powertech has one though) as pyro i can run Around while i do my damage but i cant really catch anyone that runs away.

Lastly is the lack of execute, this is fully understand, my shadows execute does 3-4k i think on a conditional execute ability while my railshot is critting for 3-4.5k everytime its off cd, mercs dont need more damage then need more utility.

 

Just my thoughts, hoping to get some sort of explanation of why this is. Like i said before im not really asking for anything, just thinking it would be cool to get some new toys that everyone else seems to have. i dont want to have merc to have everything i think its fine right now (besides healing spec)

 

Anyway comments and explanations welcome

[CerberusSeven]

Put simply: the developers didn't think things through. We don't have an interrupt because they didn't have the ability to think of a way to give us an interrupt without making us 'OP' in PvP. Yes, it's stupid, when you consider the mechanic of not applying an effect, or even disallowing an attack to hit a player AT ALL, is present in something like 20-30 different abilities that have been in the game since beta.

For movement / escape abilities, ya got me there. We have a jetback, but all it's apparently good for is to punch people and do an occassional knockback. It's silly and makes us easy targets when you consider our damage output and survivability isn't anywhere near OP when played competently, but then I guess having heavy armor makes absolutely everything okay with us, right? /sarcasm

This last part is kinda personal preference, but we don't rally NEED an execute ability, it's not necessary to balance PvE and PvP. Leaving out some abilities for the sake of variety between classes (as I think I've heard the devs state was intended) is fine, honestly; I'd think it was silly to have stealth on a guy carrying around ~50 kgs of heavy metallic arms and armaments who activates a jetpack every 30 seconds.

Just my $0.02.

Edited May 20, 2012 by LexiCazam
Inappropriate content

[GrumpySwe]

Not gonna attemt to reason around the first 2 things however the third, as pyro we do have sort of an execute ability.

In the skill tree there is a skill increasing the burn damage of dots by 30% when the target is below 30%.

No special ability but built into others, only for pyro tho.

[JuJu]

This may be slightly off topic but.... the problems with merc are not limited to just a lack of certain skills.

 

Merc is the only AC in the game who's resource to output is designed to liimit our output. By that I mean our resource pool is frontloaded while our effictive dps is backloaded. This design fits better with a tank or high survivability class. To put it more simply, we have to stack heat signatures, target locks, and Incendiary missles to reach our maximum dps potential. This scenario negates our ability to immediately dump damage on a target.

 

No interrupt, what can I say. I think anyone who plays a Merc can see how huge a deal it is to be missing this crucial skill. No other class in the game has to spec into obtaining a "semi-interrupt". No matter what explaination BW gives towards this line of reasoning it continues to baffle me given the importance placed on the interrupt mechanic in ToR.

 

Lacking the primary tenate of a ranged class, a reliable snare or any way to keep enemies at range for any reasonable amount of time. Currently we are forced to spec into having one of the worst snares in the game. While classes with the highest survivability/escapablity are given much better snares from there base class, regardless of there advanced class choice.

 

TL;DR version. The design choices for the mercenary class are fundamentally broken and in some cases actually work against themselves instead of boosting the build as a whole.

Edited May 19, 2012 by JuJu

[Agooz]

Not gonna attemt to reason around the first 2 things however the third, as pyro we do have sort of an execute ability.

In the skill tree there is a skill increasing the burn damage of dots by 30% when the target is below 30%.

No special ability but built into others, only for pyro tho.

 

And it's more of an advantage in in PvE, not PvP.

[T-Assassin]

First off id like to say that i an NOT qqing about mercs or asking for new skills i am simply trying to understand why the class is how it is, i figured id ask people more experienced than i am.

 

I play a shadow and a merc both recently got to 50 and have 4-5 BM pieces each, i recently went back to playing my shadow after playing my merc for almost 2 weeks and i now really notice all the skills merc misses out on.

1) no interrupt i'm usually about 25m or so away...so, while i'm STILL DOING DAMAGE, i take a few steps back...interrupted...healer u say. kill faster, learn ur rotation...they'll die.

2) no mobility skills (jump, sprint, etc) or escape mechanism i move NON STOP. most mobile ranged class in game, easily.

3) no execute incrased damage/crit on TD, FM, and ele dots <30%...i do more dmg under 30% on my merc than my Assassin(VR68 1.1 BM)

 

 

c'mon...there CANNOT be this many *****ty mercs out there!!!

[Gyronamics]

The boost to DoT under 30% health isn't that massive.

 

In a good rotation about 1/3 of my damage is elemental.

 

Lets say it's possible to do 1500dps with 500dps being elemental.

 

Increase the 500 by 30% = 650

 

So damage before 30% health = 1500dps and damage below 30% health = 1650dps

 

Still, various classes execute skill isn't such a massive boost either.

[fujeo-finel]

c'mon...there CANNOT be this many *****ty mercs out there!!!

 

Here's another "you do realize?" moment. You do realize Pyro isn't the only Merc spec?

[T-Assassin]

Here's another "you do realize?" moment. You do realize Pyro isn't the only Merc spec?

 

you're right. i've stated several times throughout these forums, granted not in this thread, that most, if not all of my knowledge, opinions, point of views, etc. are concerning the PT/Merc spec.

 

i should know by now people only read and see what they want to, have very short memories and attention spans, and find it difficult to value anybody's opinions/views other than their own.

 

i find a MAJORITY of the complaints, claims, whines, etc. to lack validity.

 

i'll give you a "you do realize?" moment.

 

you do realize BH has 3 specs! heals/pve/pvp and all are very good specs.

 

how many classes can say that?

 

how's the deception spec for assassin at the moment? engineering tree for IA? AP spec for PT?

 

i think people should be a bit more open minded and take a look at the bigger picture, maybe take off those blinders and see that BH is NOT in that bad of shape.

 

of course, constructive criticism, complaints, bugs, and severe issues should be taken into account.

 

if i were tasked balancing the classes, this would be the last place i would look. most people in here are clueless on how classes work, how they work as a team, what the strengths/weaknesses are, and how to maximize the class's potential.

[fujeo-finel]

you're right. i've stated several times throughout these forums, granted not in this thread, that most, if not all of my knowledge, opinions, point of views, etc. are concerning the PT/Merc spec.

 

Currently, your knowledge of the Arsenal spec is VERY limited. Perhaps you should spec into Arsenal(!!!) See how poorly you play it(!!!).

 

i should know by now people only read and see what they want to, have very short memories and attention spans, and find it difficult to value anybody's opinions/views other than their own.

 

Take a look in the mirror.

 

i find a MAJORITY of the complaints, claims, whines, etc. to lack validity.

 

Currently, your knowledge of the Arsenal spec is VERY limited. Perhaps you should spec into Arsenal(!!!) See how poorly you play it(!!!)

 

you do realize BH has 3 specs! heals/pve/pvp and all are very good specs.

 

Currently, your knowledge of the Arsenal spec (and Bodyguard) is VERY limited. Perhaps you should spec into Arsenal(!!!) See how poorly you play it(!!!)

 

i think people should be a bit more open minded and take a look at the bigger picture, maybe take off those blinders and see that BH is NOT in that bad of shape.

 

Take your own advice.

Edited May 20, 2012 by fujeo-finel

[T-Assassin]

Currently, your knowledge of the Arsenal spec is VERY limited. Perhaps you should spec into Arsenal(!!!) See how poorly you play it(!!!).

 

 

 

Take a look in the mirror.

 

 

 

Currently, your knowledge of the Arsenal spec is VERY limited. Perhaps you should spec into Arsenal(!!!) See how poorly you play it(!!!)

 

 

 

Currently, your knowledge of the Arsenal spec (and Bodyguard) is VERY limited. Perhaps you should spec into Arsenal(!!!) See how poorly you play it(!!!)

 

 

 

Take your own advice.

 

ah...here we are!!!

 

i respec'd to arsenal yesterday..just to varify the validity of these complaints...

 

they are FALSE.

 

i had NO problem managing heat and putting 1300+ DPS CONSISTANTLY according to ACT.

 

i was about 50 DPS lower as PT/Merc. and within 20 DPS ON AVERAGE with my full columni MM spec sniper.

 

sniper: 1708 cunn, 100(110)% accuracy, 36.91 crit, 74.69 surge 1200 DPS AVERAGE

 

BH: 1809 aim, 101(111)% acc, 30.59(37.79) crit, 74.37 surge 1170 DPS AVERAGE (PT) 1250 DPS AVERAGE (ARS)

 

almost mirror...and so was the damage.

 

oh...and just to toss it out there...full BM Assassin (he's missing columni gear...full BM, tho):

 

1552 WP, 100% acc, 39.05 crit, 72.31 surge 1175 DPS AVERAGE

 

oh...and i pvp'd about 8 WZ's as arsenal!!! 2nd match...536k dmg (2nd place was 235k) so...right on pace with PT.

 

tanks gave me more difficulty, but the 2 (TWO) knockbacks you get as arsenal ROCKS!!

 

arsenal is one root and instant cast ability away from perfect. (PT needs just a root)

 

both classes are fine, when properly played...

 

EDIT: (cuz i misspelled edit...lol, and i got my5k damage medal as arsneal...haven't done that as a PT)

 

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/8652/screenshot2012052018084.jpg

Edited May 21, 2012 by T-Assassin

[fujeo-finel]

How much expertise you have?

 

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on this one. Apparently full BM gear isn't enough to make this spec viable, so I'll try for full WH gear. 7k WZ comms per piece...

 

Edit: Hitting 500 damage per TM, getting executed with 3k Dispatches...

 

Edit 2: Healing more than I'm DPS'ing as Arsenal...something has to be wrong with expertise.

Edited May 21, 2012 by fujeo-finel

[NoTomorrow]

Make traer missle a ranged attack and you can have buffs for your class.

[T-Assassin]

How much expertise you have?

 

 

1264.

 

WH ear, BM rest, minus Champ relics. 41 expertise crystals x2.

Edited May 22, 2012 by T-Assassin

[T-Assassin]

Make traer missle a ranged attack and you can have buffs for your class.

 

care to clarify this?

[HeVans_]

How much expertise you have?

 

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on this one. Apparently full BM gear isn't enough to make this spec viable, so I'll try for full WH gear. 7k WZ comms per piece...

 

Edit: Hitting 500 damage per TM, getting executed with 3k Dispatches...

 

Edit 2: Healing more than I'm DPS'ing as Arsenal...something has to be wrong with expertise.

 

I spec between arsenal for PvE and pyro for PvP, but sometimes i find that I have to respec too many times and end up pvping in arsenal for a bit.

 

I have NO IDEA how you manage to hit 500 damage with tracer missile.

 

Most likely your skill distribution is horrible, for PVP: try stacking at least 75% surge, and ATLEAST 450 bonus ranged damage (cant remember the tech bonus off my head but if you get this much ranged bonus you are looking good, respectively).

 

This means you should be focussing on getting war hero eliminator gear, the stat distribution is lovely with an ideal amount of accuracy - the only mod fails in the war hero gear are in the pistols, get rid of those ****** crit/accuracy enhancements and get some power/surge.

 

In full war hero remodded eliminator gear, my tracers hit for 1-1.5k and crit for ~2.7k in pvp on 1000+ expertise targets, and that is without using an adrenal or a relic.

 

Having said all this. Arsenal is a PvE spec by nature. PvP is about mobility, you are doing nothing for your team in sitting there farming damage. Pyro is the only way to go in PvP if you are serious about it. I have done tens if not hundreds of duels to test the validity of mercenary specs in PvP, and the only DPS build that can hold it's weight against competent players is: 0/10/31

 

Pyrotech 10/31 spec

Edited May 24, 2012 by HeVans_

[T-Assassin]

the only DPS build that can hold it's weight against competent players is: 0/10/31[/color]

 

Pyrotech 10/31 spec

 

drop infrared sensors and pick up energy rebounder, and i would agree.

Edited May 24, 2012 by T-Assassin

[fujeo-finel]

I have NO IDEA how you manage to hit 500 damage with tracer missile.

 

Expertise doesn't work for Arsenal Mercs in warzones. Don't worry though, I switched to PvE gear and I'm now doing twice the damage I was doing in my BM gear, with the same survivability.

[Ifrit]

The role of BH is supposed to be high dps with minimal utility. The lack of utility adds balance to the high dps. That is why in theory BH has no good snare or interrupt. Of course, as it is right now bh has wayyyyyy to low of dps to make up for the lack of utility which causes bh merc to just suck. Can't wait for the buff!

[T-Assassin]

The role of BH is supposed to be high dps with minimal utility. The lack of utility adds balance to the high dps. That is why in theory BH has no good snare or interrupt. Of course, as it is right now bh has wayyyyyy to low of SIGNIFICANT BURST dps to make up for the lack of utility which causes bh merc to just suck. Can't wait for the buff!

 

^ fixed.

[Serpieri]

^ fixed.

 

Still waiting to see this burst.....

 

Oh there it is.....

 

poor merc destroyed by a powertech before he could shout merc y

[T-Assassin]

Still waiting to see this burst.....

 

Oh there it is.....

 

poor merc destroyed by a powertech before he could shout merc y

 

me personally, i don't have too much trouble with PT/VG, unless they are saving all their CD's for me...(i don't find myself, or allow myself to get into too many 1v1 vs classes that excel at 1v1).

 

keep em >10m and u remove the burst. (cleanse the dots, keep em from reapplying and spamming FB/IP).

[Ifrit]

^ fixed.

 

agreed, thx