1.2 PvP Patch is a Disaster - How to fix it

[Timadan]

No, the fundamental problem is that you are 2 Tiers of gear lower and whining on the forum. I am sorry the game is not balanced around recruit gear, but the problem is you and not the game.

 

Whats next, whining that you can not compete in quest gear? i mean some ppl are cba even to buy recruit gear. Where does it stop?

 

Wait in one sentence you say the problem is the player is 2 Tiers of gear lower. Then in the next you say the problem is not the game it's the player. You funny!

[SabaTheHobo]

Healing was overnerfed... that's a good one.

 

In a game where it takes 20 seconds to kill someone, but a healer can patch them up from nearly-dead to full health in 6 seconds... you would buff healing more? The way it is right now it is nearly impossible to kill someone who is receiving healing unless you stop the healer somehow -- trying to outDPS their heals takes 3 or more players.

 

Are you sure you're playing a DD class (properly)?

[Dmasterr]

Wait in one sentence you say the problem is the player is 2 Tiers of gear lower. Then in the next you say the problem is not the game it's the player. You funny!

 

The game made a set of rules and game mechanics, gear progression etc. The player(some) does not wish to follow them.

 

Said player ends up qqing on forum about poor performance. The choice of not playing by the games rules is knowingly made by the player.

 

Fault lies where?

 

I'm sorry, are you ppl not familiar to MMO's?

[blackadda]

Are you sure you're playing a DD class (properly)?

 

Max HPS is still roughly double max DPS. its just not as bad as it used to be....even a proper dps class has trouble...healers are supposed to be focus fired not soloed because without that focus fire becomes too strong versus healing.

 

Right now its about perfect heals vs dps

Edited May 13, 2012 by blackadda

[Ossos]

Jesus....

 

If anyone has ever read anything that comes from these devs, you would see that the LAST THING THEY EVER DO is listen to the community. Sheesh, I've seen several sigs on these forums that has a dev stating more or less "...don't like it? Well, suck a f@rt out of my @-$$!"

 

The devs did the guild summit thing, but it was a gimmick and nothing more than A MASSIVE SALES PITCH FOR 1.2.

 

Oh, and did you see their answers to valid questions regarding bugs, hacks, pve and pvp roles, expanded content i.e. not weekly lockouts). Every time someone had a valid point that did not directly pertain to the NEW HOT 1.2 PATCH...they were met with a smug look, and the subject was IMMEDIATELY CHANGED.

 

BW does NOT CARE WHAT YOU THINK! Jeez man, take a look at the Test Server. It's down, there is nothing new. They don't do level 50 character copy to the test server because the last thing they want players to do is be familar with the content so it doesn't go stale as fast, not to mention how the new patches negatively affect the game.

 

Finally, please oh please oh please remember that SWTOR was made by developers contracted out all over the world. Meaning that every cheap little developing mom and pop shop had a hand in XYZ. Thus, all the retained BW programmers (the ones they kept after the massive layoffs in November) are trying desperately to catch up with what was done by some random programmer in the EU.

 

So how to fix it, I mean really fix it...who knows. They're still trying to figure out how things work themselves and the last thing they want is input from the playerbase. I thought Illum would have taught you all that.

[Asynch]

The problem is that at the end of the day, MMO players think a game is good if they enter a fight believing they had a chance. This is true even when the reality is that they lost the second the que brought them into the warzone with us.

 

Healers prolong a fight, even against premades, long enough for casuals to have the perception of competing. Patch 1.2 is a complete revamp from a team based mmo to an FPS where that perception is gone. If EA/Bioware thought they had a problem with healers 1v1 they should have added outgoing heal debuffs on a longish timer (or the like) that are only cleansable by another class. Other ways to give people the perception of a good fight is to give group active buffs that reduce damage for, say, 20-30sec on a 5min time or the like. Creative little things that make a fight last longer and perhaps allow pugs to cap something but don't completely destroy archetypes (e.g., healers).

 

They didn't completely destroy healers - they still work really well in a synchronized group with a taunter/guarder. But they destroyed healers for 99% of the playing population.

 

Btw, despite what anyone at bioware thinks, the only people that come to an MMO looking to play an FPS are the types that nobody can stand to socialize with. Catering to social outcasts who think healing is bad design is, well, .... bad design.

 

Both our republic and empire side guilds are all leaving for GW2, many jumping to D3 once the free time runs out because shooting fish in a barrell is only fun for personality types that also like to kick kittens. 100% is a solid indicator. Our rockstar dps is going to keep an account because he likes leveling through the story lines.... whatever. But his PvP time is 100% with us <shrug>.

[fungihoujo]

Healing was overnerfed... that's a good one.

 

In a game where it takes 20 seconds to kill someone, but a healer can patch them up from nearly-dead to full health in 6 seconds... you would buff healing more? The way it is right now it is nearly impossible to kill someone who is receiving healing unless you stop the healer somehow -- trying to outDPS their heals takes 3 or more players.

 

Good luck with that- in 7.5 seconds considering the chance to crit- and if I can get off 3 2.5 second DI- in full BM gear mind you... I will heal 2.5k, 2.5k, and get a 4.5k crit- that's 9.5k healing IF nobody interrupts me or CCs me, which is impossible since I have a bit flame or shield above my head saying 'come kill me, I'm a healer!'- and considering a marauder can lock out my DI forever.

 

That's right- literally, forever.

 

It'd take me about 15 seconds- if nobody bothered me, to heal someone to full using my best, but easiest to interrupt, heals- at which point I'd have to start cutting myself to get back force and take about half my health away and thus spend another fifteen seconds recovering from healing someone- while they are likely killed.

 

If you just look at the raw numbers of it- healing is simply weaker than DPS, by a metric tonne- and that's before considering how vastly easier it is to CC/interrupt/lockdown a healer than a DPS- or how easy it is to prevent a healer from healing than it is to prevent a dps from dpsing.

[Lulzbot]

"Healers can no longer keep themselves alive in PvP."

 

Lol, I can heal myself through 3 people damaging me. Pretty easily.

 

Baddies be bad imo.

[fungihoujo]

"Healers can no longer keep themselves alive in PvP."

 

Lol, I can heal myself through 3 people damaging me. Pretty easily.

 

Baddies be bad imo.

 

K, let's see you healing with 3 decent DPS on you. FRAPS is easy to use- you show you can outheal three good players on you, and I'll admit healing's fine, stop posting on the forums, and learn to be as good as you at healing.

 

 

Or, don't because you're full of it and can't do that and likely only have a level 50 marauder and love the easy kills 1.2 gave you.

[Samaul]

"Healers can no longer keep themselves alive in PvP."

 

Lol, I can heal myself through 3 people damaging me. Pretty easily.

 

Baddies be bad imo.

 

Screenshot or it didnt happen.

[rjkishida]

OP is right but Bioware doesn't seem to be able to listen very well. Guess that's one reason why server pops are dropping like stones.

[supafreak]

Healers are fine?

 

I die in less than 5 seconds in recruit gear as a healer. I dont get a chance to heal myself much less anyone else. I die so fast and so often that at my current pace of earning commendations, I can get one piece of BM a week.

 

If SWTOR pvp is fine, why have so many pvpers quit the game?

 

Citation needed

 

Im not sure what game you're playing but healers are doing great in matches Ive played. As for taking down a healer, unless they are focused down they can be wailed on, interrupted and they get back to full health if you miss even one interrupt.

Recruit gear isnt supposed to make you a bawse but it really does work well, and you cna get full BM in a few days anyway

[Ahhmyface]

Healers are fine. Healers win matches. In 1.2, the single most important "must have" role is a healer.

 

Ok, so you don't godmode around while everybody dies but you.

 

Newsflash: the reason everyone attacks you is because you are incredibly powerful, and cannot be ignored.

[Razuache]

it takes like 2 weeks to get full battlemaster that is nothing lol and warhero actually gives a good amount of everything just not expertise if you think pvp was more balanced pre patch you either didnt play only pvpd below level 50 or are a troll from blizzard lol

[Azerok]

I totally agree with this. As a sorc I hate doing pvp because my survivability has dropped considerably. In a warzone where I used to actually be able to take 3 or 4 deaths is now 13 or 14 deaths. Yes dieing in pvp is part of the experience but it has just got to the point where the frustration of being CC'd constantly and not dealing half as much damage as I used to makes me not want to play at all. Feels like a big waste of 50 levels worth of time.

[AlyxDinas]

A minor TTK adjustment would be welcome. This notion that his either needs to be immortal healer based stalemates or incredibly short gibfests is fairly silly. A proper balance can and should be struck. And asking for this is not unreasonable.

[Samaul]

A minor TTK adjustment would be welcome. This notion that his either needs to be immortal healer based stalemates or incredibly short gibfests is fairly silly. A proper balance can and should be struck. And asking for this is not unreasonable.

 

/agreed

 

Good post. No one is asking for god mode, I know I am not.

[Butterstuffs]

This seems to be a recuring theme in threads like this. As I look down the pvp forum section its full of reasons and legitimate issues that need to be resolved.

 

for example if you look down the forum list of threads in the pvp section every other one is about the same thing. Whats wrong with pvp and how to fix it.

 

What we all need to do as the player base is make a list of the things that need to be fixed and send them to BW.

 

or at least keep up post such as this, so they can make their own list and get to resolving one of the largest issues in the game, PVP.

 

Take a look here. another example of someone trying to do the same thing

 

We are all on the same team as the user base goes. Keep posting your issues and how you think we as users can get BW to resolve them. As we have seen flaming gets us nowhere and nerd rage just gets us kicked. Its constructive posting like the OP of this thread that gets things heard. My list of things that need to be fixed are posted in the thread linked above. I am to lazy to type it again

[flem]

A minor TTK adjustment would be welcome. This notion that his either needs to be immortal healer based stalemates or incredibly short gibfests is fairly silly. A proper balance can and should be struck. And asking for this is not unreasonable.

It *has* been struck. Get a bodyguard. (Or crosshealer.)

 

"Reasonable" TTK without bodyguard = unkillable with bodyguard.

 

Bioware *does* listen to the PvP community. Look at the reward changes. But guess what -- your personal complaint may be wrong. In this case, it is, as the people in this thread are telling you.

[Fafryd]

You left out that Legacy is a major disappointment filled with fluff.

[Dasgruberg]

All but 5 or 6 of the pvp servers in SWTOR are light population. Most pvp servers in SWTOR are dead or dying. I mean 5-10 people in Carrick Station, empty leveling zones and therefore empty servers. My own server has lost over 60% of its population since patch 1.2. The pvp player base has overwhelmingly rejected patch 1.2. Players that are new to the game stop queing for Warzones when they hit level 50 because the gear gap is just too large.

 

What went wrong with the 1.2 PvP patch:

 

• Damage was overbuffed - expertise damage buff and damage buffs to some dps classes/specs was just too much. Players in full Recruit gear are dying in under 5 seconds.
  
• Healing was overnerfed - expertise healing nerf and nerfs to healing classes/specs was just too much. Healers can no longer keep themselves alive in pvp, much less anyone else.
  
• The new PvP gear system has huge holes in it - the gap between recruit and battlemaster is too large. The gap between battlemaster and war hero is too small.
  

 

How to fix SWTOR pvp:

 

• Do a complete rollback to the pre-1.2 pvp system.
  
• Roll back the expertise change.
  
• Bring back the Centurion/Champion/Battlemaster pvp gear progression.
  
• Put whoever is responsible for the SWTOR 1.2 PvP changes on help desk where they can never ever come up with a set of pvp changes like 1.2 again.
  

 

How to get it right next time:

 

Listen to the PvP community.

 

I think i disagree with everything in this post except healing nerf and dmg buff.

[AlyxDinas]

It *has* been struck. Get a bodyguard. (Or crosshealer.)

 

"Reasonable" TTK without bodyguard = unkillable with bodyguard.

 

Bioware *does* listen to the PvP community. Look at the reward changes. But guess what -- your personal complaint may be wrong. In this case, it is, as the people in this thread are telling you.

 

Why are you talking as if I've been an active participant in this thread? Were you so eager to say anything that you forgot to same something worth hearing? If you want to talk to the OP, I'd suggest you do that and leave me out of it. Either that or stop being foolish enough to assume that we absolutely must all have the same notion of reasonable.

 

I thank you for only proving my point with your reactionary nonsense, however. This notion of two extremes, erring on the side of gibbing, is fundamentally ill thought and the fact that you cannot even take the most minuscule time to reflect upon this doesn't do anything except expose you the bag of wind you are.

 

So, regardless of your infantile display, I remain resolute that TTK still seems remarkably high in my estimation, both incoming towards me and even the extent of my outgoing damage. So yes, I think these changes we've seen are generally good in theory and close to what I think would be the best for the game, but I still would say that the developers overextended somewhat.

 

A minor adjustment is just what it says on the tin. A minor adjustment. It isn't a massive rollback like some people have called for nor is it something substantial. Stop for a single minute, exercise some of that gray matter you miraculously managed to use to remember to breath when you woke on this morning, and get some perspective.

Edited May 13, 2012 by AlyxDinas

[Ballzz]

I love how the pat answer to the OP is essentially "L2P" which is standard fare I guess but it's amazing you all don't see the irony of your posts. Why doesn't that same judgement apply to DPS pre-1.2? Skilled DPS pre-1.2 could occupy a healer and force him to heal himself instead of others. 2 skilled DPS could easily kill 1 healer. It was hardly "god-mode" unless you didn't know how to interrupt/cc. The number of interrupts in this game is ridiculous so to imply you didn't have the tools before to stop a healer is laughable. The fact that some of you think healers pre-1.2 were "god-mode" casts the same questionable light on your skills so you shouldn't be so quick to judge. Yes, healers needed to be tweaked a bit and the healing bug for sages needed to be fixed but it went way too far considering the DPS buffs that also happened.

 

Dying in pvp is a reality but it's not fun to die as often as people die now in the post-1.2 game. Some of you also fail to realize that healers are *routinely* focus fired so it's not like some strange anomaly (especially now with the moronic "I'm a healer if you were too stupid to know" icon over our heads). If a healer can't withstand at least a little focus firing they are of minimal use and with the insane DPS in game right now it only takes 1 skilled DPS to bring down a healer pretty easily.

 

Mentioning that healers need guard or other players to save them only diminishes your argument that healers are fine. A fully heal spec'd healer can't kill anyone 1v1 and the trade-off for that should be survivabilty not reliance on others. Healers can't kill anyone and can't heal anyone without coordinated effort by others so that seems pretty broken to me. DPS seem perfectly able to kill people on their own without a coordinated group effort so why should healers require that?

 

It's not completely impossible to heal given certain circumstances (really good team play, having guard, other team is poorly geared/skilled) but why should healers be so dependent on circumstances out of their control to be able to do the absolute minimum of their designated role?

 

I'm in almost all BM gear and I frequently have a very hard time surviving (827 expertise)..which means I can't keep myself up let alone anyone else. Pre-1.2 I could heal 300-450k in a WZ match but now I'm very lucky to break 200k (and I have a lot more PVP gear now than I did then)..much of that healing myself just to stay alive. Not all matches are like that but it's more the rule now than the exception.

[Metalmac]

I love how the pat answer to the OP is essentially "L2P" which is standard fare I guess but it's amazing you all don't see the irony of your posts. Why doesn't that same judgement apply to DPS pre-1.2? Skilled DPS pre-1.2 could occupy a healer and force him to heal himself instead of others. 2 skilled DPS could easily kill 1 healer. It was hardly "god-mode" unless you didn't know how to interrupt/cc. The number of interrupts in this game is ridiculous so to imply you didn't have the tools before to stop a healer is laughable. The fact that some of you think healers pre-1.2 were "god-mode" casts the same questionable light on your skills so you shouldn't be so quick to judge. Yes, healers needed to be tweaked a bit and the healing bug for sages needed to be fixed but it went way too far considering the DPS buffs that also happened.

 

Dying in pvp is a reality but it's not fun to die as often as people die now in the post-1.2 game. Some of you also fail to realize that healers are *routinely* focus fired so it's not like some strange anomaly (especially now with the moronic "I'm a healer if you were too stupid to know" icon over our heads). If a healer can't withstand at least a little focus firing they are of minimal use and with the insane DPS in game right now it only takes 1 skilled DPS to bring down a healer pretty easily.

 

Mentioning that healers need guard or other players to save them only diminishes your argument that healers are fine. A fully heal spec'd healer can't kill anyone 1v1 and the trade-off for that should be survivabilty not reliance on others. Healers can't kill anyone and can't heal anyone without coordinated effort by others so that seems pretty broken to me. DPS seem perfectly able to kill people on their own without a coordinated group effort so why should healers require that?

 

It's not completely impossible to heal given certain circumstances (really good team play, having guard, other team is poorly geared/skilled) but why should healers be so dependent on circumstances out of their control to be able to do the absolute minimum of their designated role?

 

I'm in almost all BM gear and I frequently have a very hard time surviving (827 expertise)..which means I can't keep myself up let alone anyone else. Pre-1.2 I could heal 300-450k in a WZ match but now I'm very lucky to break 200k (and I have a lot more PVP gear now than I did then)..much of that healing myself just to stay alive. Not all matches are like that but it's more the rule now than the exception.

 

I have to agree that Bio Ware has head up rear about PVP in general. They cater to DPS only and that sums it up.

[Herboss]

Healing is fine, before you could not only keep yourself alive while people bashed on you and you sat in the one spot not moving, but keep someone else alive at the same time, that was stupid. Now, tanks actually need to protect healers a little, I've still seen plenty of games dominated by a few healers pulling off MASSIVE healing numbers. Any healer that left the game was simply a trash player missing their godmode healing.

 

It has barely taken me a week of on off play to be kitted out in nearly all the main pieces of BM gear on my new 50 (that's solo queue btw, no always win premades), Recruit gear is definitely lacking compared to BM gear, but it can be purchased for cash instantly and honestly doesn't take that long to upgrade to BM gear. So the gear situation is actually good IMO as it goes, crappy recruit gear for about a week - week and a half MAX, then it takes a LONG time to upgrade to War Hero which only provides a minor buff over BM gear meaning PVP stays reasonably balanced gear wise. Anyone who is unhappy enough to quit over their WH gear not having a big enough advantage over BM gear is pathetic IMO.

 

I would say the REAL problem with PVP is their seems to be a few classes still needing some balancing...