Xaearth Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 (edited) Why do people continue to insist on arguing that Scrapper/Concealment is fine because they can 2+v1 people? Is there any DPS class that doesn't wreck face 2v1 in the current state of the game? Edited May 12, 2012 by Xaearth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aikiyc Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 All the strengths you think they have, deception assassins do it way better. The operatives and scoundrels must be really bad on your server then. Deception assassins hit like wet noodles compared to an operative pounding someone right out of stealth. It's much easier for me to ditch a Deception assassin than a concealment operative. They have more tricks up their sleeve. Yes. That means an operative is less useful when out of stealth for a long time and when all their CDs are down. But we're talking about unique niches here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twor Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Let us wait and see people, who will say its a L2p issue and "good" scoundrels are fine. They will be talking about best burst and overpowered stunlock. And about stealth as a gap closer. Lets hide behind a tree and watch them. I agree that scoundrels would benefit of a medium range gap closer (like 10m or so like zealous jump). But scoundrels can add a lot- in hybrid spec or as a plain healer. I agree that melee scoundrels don't have an easy time (and i'm not playing one nope) as their role of single target burst dps is with the current ttk difficult. A scouhndrel outside of stealth is caught with his pants down most of the time, and usually easy prey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaearth Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 The operatives and scoundrels must be really bad on your server then. Deception assassins hit like wet noodles compared to an operative pounding someone right out of stealth. It's much easier for me to ditch a Deception assassin than a concealment operative. They have more tricks up their sleeve. Yes. That means an operative is less useful when out of stealth for a long time and when all their CDs are down. But we're talking about unique niches here. You have Deception Assassins on your server? True deception assassins are rare. Hell, I've seen more "deception" (specced) assassins still running around in Dark Charge than I have full specced Deception sins running Surging Charge. And even rarer still than a full specced Surging Charge Deception Assassin is a player that knows how to play it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldin Posted May 12, 2012 Author Share Posted May 12, 2012 The operatives and scoundrels must be really bad on your server then. Deception assassins hit like wet noodles compared to an operative pounding someone right out of stealth. It's much easier for me to ditch a Deception assassin than a concealment operative. They have more tricks up their sleeve. Yes. That means an operative is less useful when out of stealth for a long time and when all their CDs are down. But we're talking about unique niches here. Or the Deception assassins on your server are really bad. Any assassin should be able to stay within melee range easier than an operative. 30 meter stun and short duration sprint ensure that. Operatives really do not get more tricks because outside of 10 meters is just some basic ranged attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wintervoid Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 That is because, opening on people that are around 50% hp and busy doing something else, is the concealment operative niche. At least that's what they have been nerfed to. Problem is other classes can do it better, and from 30-35 yards away, [/color] The thing is vs most ranged DPS classes I can LoS before they can do enough damage to me to really worry me. When I see cross-hairs on me or hear tracer missiles, I hit Dodge and move to LoS. Melee I can generally pre-kite before they are on me. I think OPs could use a small buff, but they still have their niche, no matter how small it is. IMO, I think that the ScrapBones builds are the best balance of DPS and Utility for a PuG Scoundrel right now, while a pure Sawbones is probably better for a Premade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmasterr Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 . Deception assassins hit like wet noodles. WHAT? Oh **** u srs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aikiyc Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 WHAT? Oh **** u srs. As an operative healer, yes. I do not worry too much when a deception assassin with surging charge jumps me. It's relatively easy to heal through unless he has help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svartalfimposter Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 DPS Scoundrel adds Nothing Unique to a Warzone And yet in no time at all people will be asking for new classes. MADNESS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phistonation Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Sorry scoundrels are still able to 3 shot most classes to 70%-50% HP. FIXED that for ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikedee Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 FIXED that for ya. Sorry it's a l2P issue for you. Good ones don't have that issue. Maybe your in recruit gear which would make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrXen Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Gutted lol. Sorry scoundrels are still able to 3 shot most classes. Maybe you think 1-2 shotting is more balanced? You guys are one of the strongest classes. If you want it all roll a mar/sent. There are classes in much worse shape. Just a l2p issue here. Nothing new... LOL, good joke dude. I don't even play operative as a main, although I have one (level 50). I play tank assassin as a main, which is borderline overpowered, and I also have a merc, as well as a marauder. Surprisingly marauders aren't LOLPWN like these forums claim, my darkness assassin can beat it anyday. Operative? Class is a joke as a dps. Playing an operative or scoundrel as anything but a healer right now is worthless and a detriment to your team. Yes, you can 1v1 that clueless guy in a corner with 70% hp who is partially afk eating cookies...yeah...great niche role to fill there. Meanwhile you COULD be playing an operative healer (brokenly overpowered thanks to healing buffs, and don't tell me its not, i play it and lul at people) or tank assassin, or a pyro PT, or a marauder with face peeling dps that far out weighs the burst OR sustained dps any operative can do with the same or better squish. To what you said in red: Possibly one of the dumbest things said on the forums in a long while. Operative in my server with about 50% war hero 50% battlemaster gear hits my unguarded, no defensive cooldowns tank assassin (with I would say 70% battlemaster and 30% war hero) for 2000-3500 with acid blade+hiddenstrike (when crit), followed closely by a backstab for 2400-3800 (when crit), naturally followed by the 4-second stun which I break, but lets say I don't this time, followed by 1 laceration for 1000-2500 (when crit), then a shiv 1000-2500 (when crit), then a laceration for 1000-2500 (when critting), and etc. When I have 16,900 hp unbuffed, I wear light armor, I use no defensive cooldowns, and i get hit for AT MAX 3500+3800+2500+2500+2500 (total = 14800) and that is me being very GENEROUS and taking his high end crit numbers from several duels and assuming every single hit he uses crits on me for the high end, then please explain to me in what way is 16,900 hp - (14800) = 2100 being killed in "3 shots" ? In reality land, I don't stand still getting hit by all that, and even if i did only 30-60% of those hits would crit in the first place and usually not that high etc etc and I STILL wouldn't die. Morons on this level make me want gene pool cleansing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiazabi Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Your suppose to put down your shotgun and pick up the TV remote and start zapping people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Populism Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 I like this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikedee Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 LOL, good joke dude. I don't even play operative as a main, although I have one (level 50). I play tank assassin as a main, which is borderline overpowered, and I also have a merc, as well as a marauder. Surprisingly marauders aren't LOLPWN like these forums claim, my darkness assassin can beat it anyday. Operative? Class is a joke as a dps. Playing an operative or scoundrel as anything but a healer right now is worthless and a detriment to your team. Yes, you can 1v1 that clueless guy in a corner with 70% hp who is partially afk eating cookies...yeah...great niche role to fill there. Meanwhile you COULD be playing an operative healer (brokenly overpowered thanks to healing buffs, and don't tell me its not, i play it and lul at people) or tank assassin, or a pyro PT, or a marauder with face peeling dps that far out weighs the burst OR sustained dps any operative can do with the same or better squish. To what you said in red: Possibly one of the dumbest things said on the forums in a long while. Operative in my server with about 50% war hero 50% battlemaster gear hits my unguarded, no defensive cooldowns tank assassin (with I would say 70% battlemaster and 30% war hero) for 2000-3500 with acid blade+hiddenstrike (when crit), followed closely by a backstab for 2400-3800 (when crit), naturally followed by the 4-second stun which I break, but lets say I don't this time, followed by 1 laceration for 1000-2500 (when crit), then a shiv 1000-2500 (when crit), then a laceration for 1000-2500 (when critting), and etc. When I have 16,900 hp unbuffed, I wear light armor, I use no defensive cooldowns, and i get hit for AT MAX 3500+3800+2500+2500+2500 (total = 14800) and that is me being very GENEROUS and taking his high end crit numbers from several duels and assuming every single hit he uses crits on me for the high end, then please explain to me in what way is 16,900 hp - (14800) = 2100 being killed in "3 shots" ? In reality land, I don't stand still getting hit by all that, and even if i did only 30-60% of those hits would crit in the first place and usually not that high etc etc and I STILL wouldn't die. Morons on this level make me want gene pool cleansing. Funny. I eat bads like you un geared. Sorry not everyone plays tank classes. Obviously a tank sin wouldn't know about being skilled. Never met a skilled one just ones ready to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phistonation Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Sorry it's a l2P issue for you. Good ones don't have that issue. Maybe your in recruit gear which would make sense. Ooook? Didn't know Mikey the Scoundrel could hit for 5k-6k a pop to simply "3 shot" most classes. You're lucky if you can barely open for 3.5k on a good day raged up on relic/stim/adrenal combo. Then, what? You're not doing anything else except getting a free trip to the spawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikedee Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Ooook? Didn't know Mikey the Scoundrel could hit for 5k-6k a pop to simply "3 shot" most classes. You're lucky if you can barely open for 3.5k on a good day raged up on relic/stim/adrenal combo. Then, what? You're not doing anything else except getting a free trip to the spawn. Lol my scoundrel is fine so is my sage. So many bads on these forums. The pvp vendor sells skill. Maybe you should check him out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldin Posted May 12, 2012 Author Share Posted May 12, 2012 Lol my scoundrel is fine so is my sage. So many bads on these forums. The pvp vendor sells skill. Maybe you should check him out. Constructive posts only please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chadicus Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Another whine thread from scoundrels. Yay. The other million just weren't cutting it. Good thing you're here to bring the whine to the forefront. A DPS scoundrel isn't a utility class, it's a burst damage class. So yes, if you want to remove your strengths from the discussion, then yeah, I guess all you're left with is weaknesses. Allow me to do the same. Deception assassins add nothing unique to the warzone. If we ignore my utility, pretty much all the other DPS classes out damage me, and have higher defenses. QQ, this is all the developers fault. Woah woah woah. Assassins are capable of great burst and have better sustained damage than an ops/scoundrel. Gunslingers and Vanguards put out more burst and sustained than ops/scoundrels do. One burst ability every 12 seconds and crap dps the rest of the time does not make for a good class. Just so you know, my marauders annihilate is a similar cool down and it does 900 more baseline damage than my ops backstab. (Both in mix of BM/WH gear) The simple fact is that ops/scoundrels are suffering with terrible on target time and terrible sustained dps when they are on target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squatdog_nz Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Woah woah woah. Assassins are capable of great burst and have better sustained damage than an ops/scoundrel. Gunslingers and Vanguards put out more burst and sustained than ops/scoundrels do. One burst ability every 12 seconds and crap dps the rest of the time does not make for a good class. Just so you know, my marauders annihilate is a similar cool down and it does 900 more baseline damage than my ops backstab. (Both in mix of BM/WH gear) The simple fact is that ops/scoundrels are suffering with terrible on target time and terrible sustained dps when they are on target. This. Not to mention that they can ONLY burst out of stealth, from behind a target and end up treading water for the next Backstab once they use up their initial rotation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarfunkz Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 They can hold a node indefinitely 1v1... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimso Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Lol my scoundrel is fine so is my sage. So many bads on these forums. The pvp vendor sells skill. Maybe you should check him out. hey scrub, prove it post a vid of you on you're scoundrel 3 shotting equally geared and skilled players otherwise shut the ********** up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldin Posted May 13, 2012 Author Share Posted May 13, 2012 They can hold a node indefinitely 1v1... Shadows do it a bit better with the defensive cooldowns they get. Also, not a unique feature of the class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaearth Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Meanwhile you COULD be playing an operative healer (brokenly overpowered thanks to healing buffs, and don't tell me its not, i play it and lul at people) A bit off topic, but I refuse to let this misinformation stand. Operative/Scoundrel healers were NOT buffed. Their 31 pt ability was made to actually be viable rather than a hindrance - in other words making hybrids no longer outright better than full spec, as the devs have done several times to other classes - and they got a few quality of life changes. The reason people think they're "overpowered" is because of the overwhelming number of DPS that fully believe healing shouldn't exist in a warzone and whined for the other two healers to get nerfed into the ground. And yet those same people complain that there's too much damage flying around now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaearth Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 As an operative healer, yes. I do not worry too much when a deception assassin with surging charge jumps me. It's relatively easy to heal through unless he has help. That's because Deception Assassin burst is very easy to telegraph, and thus easy to counter... Unless of course the player is smart enough to know their burst is very easy to telegraph, and either compensates or even uses that to their advantage. Myself, I prefer the "open on one guy and proceed to lol at his blown defensive cooldowns as I burst down his oblivious nearby ally" strategy. Like I said, Deception sins that know how to use their spec to its full potential are very very rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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