GraunKrynn Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Well like the example I wrote in my last post, the pvp zone should equalize everyone's stats to the same except for the tank/dps stats so tank with a bit more health and dps with a bit more willpower/aim/cunning, etc. This doesn't even happen in lowbie WZ's. The bolster feature scales off your current gear. So a level 14 in purples would have higher stats in WZs than a level 49 in greens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vid-szhite Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 (edited) Like I said, for bads ^ You guys are the ones crying for your precious expertise shield. Your telling me the big bad PvE'ers would walk all over you without it? Give me a break, you're not a real PvPer. No, it's true. If you want PvP to be about skill and not gear, Expertise has to stay. The gap between Recruit and War Hero isn't too big, but it's enough to make people aspire to it. However, the gap between Rakata/Black Hole/Campaign and the purples that you can buy on the AH is over the freaking top. If it weren't for expertise, all the top raiders in the game would come into every warzone with 22k+ health (even Sorcs!), 2000+ of their main stat, and proceed to dominate everyone else who doesn't raid completely. Before 1.2, Expertise wasn't even enough to prevent that from happening - Rakata was just that good, and could be used to greater effect than Battlemaster. If you just hit 50, you'd have NO options except raid and do hardmodes for weeks and come back later (unfortunately, that was often the case pre-1.2 because of how slow it was to even get Centurion). Thanks to the emphasis on Expertise, you can be a fresh 50, buy some Recruit gear with credits, buy some Battlemaster with the Commendations you saved up, and do just fine if you have the skill, even against War Heroes. Without Expertise, you are penalized for playing lots of PvP instead of PvE, since the hardcore PvEers will have all the best gear, and will dominate PvP without even trying. Edited May 10, 2012 by Vid-szhite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayPres Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Expertise is fine. The ratio in adjustment to overall output or intake is to prevent longer cycles for PVP. It would literally take forever for players of any caliber to kill in combat. The gear is a de-equalizer in this case which isn't a bad thing. And the only reason I say that is because the rewards still require a bit of a grind and 45min warzones with low rewards even for winning is not ideal. Yes it is about the gear, but it has more to do with skill/committment. More time pvp'ing should net this same power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vid-szhite Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 (edited) Well like the example I wrote in my last post, the pvp zone should equalize everyone's stats to the same except for the tank/dps stats so tank with a bit more health and dps with a bit more willpower/aim/cunning, etc. What? So you want to equalize every stat except for every stat that does anything...? If you equalize everything but Endurance and the main power stats, people in Rakata will still dominate people in PvP gear because main stats are the only difference between Rakata and Battlemaster. Edited May 10, 2012 by Vid-szhite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuSeC Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Like I said, for bads ^ You guys are the ones crying for your precious expertise shield. Your telling me the big bad PvE'ers would walk all over you without it? Give me a break, you're not a real PvPer. Hey champ... I was in full BM prior to 1.2 because I GRINDED. Valor 83 as we speak. I did this by grinding to get the better gear. I did not qq.. took the lumps and moved on because I knew there would be better days. Dont forget all the people in BM/WH gear like me were all fresh 50s at one time as well. Only then we did not have any pvp gear we could buy we had to grind Cent. gear then champ gear then hope we got a box that had a BM token... I feel no pity for qq babies out there. Sorry you dont get handed BM gear when you turn 50... You actually have to play pvp and EARN it. You can argue skill all you want but when the grind is over... all there is.. is skill. Why not just give everyone free Black hole and WH gear as soon as they turn 50... Thats what you really want. I dont care if EXP is removed. Just as long as I have the tier equivalent so people running PVE cant come in and faceroll in PVP. Just make Black Hole gear be THE end game gear and that be that... As long as it is achievable by doing PVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sookster Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 (edited) What? So you want to equalize every stat except for every stat that does anything...? If you equalize everything but Endurance and the main power stats, people in Rakata will still dominate people in PvP gear because main stats are the only difference between Rakata and Battlemaster. No, like I said in my first post, your sets gets cancelled out in pvp in City of Heroes but you still get set bonuses like increase to stealth level, so in SWTOR only your set bonus would count like 2 piece 15% crit chance to tracer missile and the stats increase from gear would be irrelevant and cancelled out. But give tank stance (soresu, dark charge, ion gas cylinder) extra endurance and such. Edited May 10, 2012 by Sookster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxdragonragexx Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 You do know that City Of Heroes PvP sucks, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 well theyre basically handing out PvP gear at level 50, so im not really sure why people are still complaining. Well people complain about A so they change it to B then they start to complain about that so it gets changed to C and so on and so on. I wish I had it this good while I was gearing up. I know you may get man handled sometime but with the changes to the daily (recent I know but still) the changes to the medal count and how much you gain for a loss I just don't see a problem. It should take no time to get full BM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saerith Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 I wish they would split up expertise into DPS, healing, and mitigation. Expertise mods would have one of the three. if you wanted to do more damage, you'd have to give up mitigation. If you wanted more mitigation, maybe healers would have to give up some healing output. It's a rough idea, but I think it'd add a bit more variety to the system and give players more options for customizing their characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razot Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 (edited) Ya expertise is pure comedy gold in this tragedy of a game. Keep on holding on to that anchor tied around your neck Bioware.. Oh let me just sit here and wait 45 minutes for a match to pop,, such an astonishing success! Edited May 10, 2012 by Razot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timadan Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Ya expertise is pure comedy gold in this tragedy of a game. Keep on holding on to that anchor tied around your neck Bioware.. Oh let me just sit here and wait 45 minutes for a match to pop,, such an astonishing success! Best post in the thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogozhi Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 TTK too low? Raise mitigation in expertise or lower damage bonus. TTK too high? Lower mitigation in expertise or raise damage bonus. Does anyone really want job number one when entering 50 PvP to be grind a campaign set in PvE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razot Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 (edited) Well I am sick of the debate tbh.. Its a crap stat that is painfully needed as you have high end PVE gear on a PVP server and a bunch kids in both camps chasing shiny garbage in instances. My problem with it is that there will never be any chance whatsoever of good world PVP with that stat in game, but in reality i think Bioware killed any chance of that happening anyway with this wonderful engine they decided to use. So both sides of the table are correct and both are wrong. Yes you need it or else PVE gear would roll everyone, No its not the only solution to the problem as it creates a broken PVP environment such as we have here. If you cant see whats happening to the PVP player base then you must be seriously delusional. On top of that some people want progression others do not. I think the only real solution is to baseline the expertise stat and have minor primary stat increases per tier, then we can work on class balance and what not, as of now the nerfs seem random and illogical while the matches are mostly completely lopsided, this game is not fun atm and imo most of the problems that the game is having is cause the expertise values are out of whack. In the end i think its the only real solution, as more tiers of high end PVE gear makes it into the game the more screwed up and unbalanced PVP and all its tiers of gear will become with its endless tweaking and nerfing. A baseline could just be adjusted with the highest level of PVE gear current of the time. Edited May 11, 2012 by Razot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogozhi Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Recruit gear is at what, about 900 expertise? WH is at about 1200 expertise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalkingDinosaur Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Wall o text Expertise is fine. You get like 800 from a full set of Recruit gear, so if you have less then that it's your own fault. Also if you PvP 1-49 save your comms then when you hit 50 purchase the BM main hand. Bam, you're already on your way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobNightfall Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 all the bads cannot rely on expertise. if youre pvping, you need expertise. the damage boosts and damage reductions will cancel out on equally geared players. expertise is merely a content gate. if you want to pvp and not die a million horrible deaths, you need pvp gear. this isnt rocket science........ If you play this, Rift, or Wow then this is true. Of course, if you play other games, such as GW 2, then it's not true at all. I may not be fond of GW 2's graphics, but gear supremacy in PvP is and always has been a mistake, and they acknowledge it and have set their system up to remove it. A lot of other games are following the same model as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oompadouche Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 NO!!!!!!!! We dont mind if you wear your pve gear in pvp but you will die quickly. LEAVE our PVP gear alone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxdragonragexx Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 (edited) If you play this, Rift, or Wow then this is true. Of course, if you play other games, such as GW 2, then it's not true at all. I may not be fond of GW 2's graphics, but gear supremacy in PvP is and always has been a mistake, and they acknowledge it and have set their system up to remove it. A lot of other games are following the same model as well. Not really. Guild Wars 2 was a mistake. So is guild wars 1. All F2P games are a mistake. WoW and Swtor made more money in 1 month compared to 1 year of GW1. GW1 died so fast. Same thing will happen to GW2. Lots of hype but really failed system and failed gameplay. Most people that played GW1 won't buy that game. Edited May 11, 2012 by xxdragonragexx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razot Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 (edited) Not really. Guild Wars 2 was a mistake. So is guild wars 1. All F2P games are a mistake. WoW and Swtor made more money in 1 month compared to 1 year of GW1. GW1 died so fast. Same thing will happen to GW2. Lots of hype but really failed system and failed gameplay. Most people that played GW1 won't buy that game. Thank you Fox News for that fair and balanced report. Edited May 11, 2012 by Razot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ufasach Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Expertise is catering to fotm.weaksauce players. If everything was on a more level playing field I.E 10-49 pvp you would have overall better pvp. All they have to do is change expertise to morale/health/endurance problem solved the only difference will be that people get the pvp gear will have lot more health. Overall even if they remove expertise the remaining problem is chainstunning/resolve All i seen with expertise is people with expertise farming those who dont have it like there lvl 40 npc's. Even if you get the piece of bantha poo recruit gear your only gonna last 1 second longer then you normally would. All expertise is catering to 12 year olds who think there good farming fresh 50's Which leaves me to my last issue why are people with exeprtise sets not separated from those who dont have exeprtise? Its part of the problem why people drop. No one wants to be farmed then be expected to go blow money on recruit gear that doesnt even make a 2% difference against people with lot more. Dont matter though when gw2 out and the majority of pvp'rs go to thier youll see expertise dispear overnight and 100 times more qq from those people relying on expertise to be good lol oh noes we went to 1.1 mill subs haha People with Expertise sets ARE separated from those without expertise sets One group do warzones the other group do raids. The two easiest things to accumulate in SWTOR are armour and credits so there is no excuse other than laziness/uselessness for anybody to come into a warzone without at least a full set of recruit gear (in fact it should be impossible to queue without a min of 800 expertise ) A full battlenmaster set can easily be acquired in a week of playing . PVE players shouldnt stick theiur nose into PVP issues because no decent PVP player wants to operate without a stat that prevents idiots entering warzones in that rakata rubbish. As usual lazy useless feckless wannabees who want something for NOTHING Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oompadouche Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Thank you Fox News for that fair and balanced report. how is he wrong? Blizzard has a system that has worked longer than GW 1 and GW2 combined. GW2 is a free to play and this is the only way they will survive. Free game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razot Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 how is he wrong? Blizzard has a system that has worked longer than GW 1 and GW2 combined. GW2 is a free to play and this is the only way they will survive. Free game. Umm GW2 is out already? Combined, ya ok... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjkishida Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Bioware can't get rid of Expertise. They need a stat to justify the grind. Otherwise you wouldn't need to waste time in PVP and keep your subscription. They also won't EVER get rid of expertise because it forces you to get 2 sets of gear thus doubling your grinding time. Without Expertise, you would be able to have only 1 set of armor for PVP and PVE instead of 1 set for PVP and 1 set for PVE. The Expertise stat exists SOLELY for the benefit of Bioware. They will NEVER get rid of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oompadouche Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 (edited) Wow will always be the standard that all other MMO games will be compared to. swtor is taking the standards of wow and incorporating those to this game. Edited May 11, 2012 by oompadouche Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxdragonragexx Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Umm GW2 is out already? Combined, ya ok... Reading isn't your strong point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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