Sentinel/Marauder - The Problem is NOT DPS.

[LiveandDieinLA]

Is the CD on Force Camo 45 seconds? If so that should be a 3 minute skill if not removed altogether.

 

It's silly for the game's primary melee class to have a combat breaking stealth at all.

 

Why is it silly? Its the Sentinels agro drop ability.

 

And force camo does not break combat.

[fungihoujo]

Interesting to see you conveniently leave out Sentinels and Marauders, who currently deals the highest and most intensely powerful internal/elemental damage in a continuous stream of DoTs. Pyros have the classic burst-impotency cycle, sorc/sages have the classic tick-tick-tick DoTs, whereas the current FotM Watchman/Annihilation Mara/Sents are like wham! wham! wham! wham! DoTs, on top of their own burst attacks.

 

The highest internal/elemental damage dealers, as it is, ARE the sentinels and marauders themselves.

 

The problem IS the DPS.

 

Well, yes- but it becomes kind of ironic when the only damage a marauder can complain about is the damage another marauder is doing through their armour. But, it'd make little sense for marauders to want to nerf the only class that can beat a marauder when that class is a marauder.

 

Not to mention marauders get a 31 point anni talent that does massive damage against dotted foes- sorcs get a dot that does less damage than the two dots they already have.

 

 

Hooray!

[fungihoujo]

Why is it silly? Its the Sentinels agro drop ability.

 

And force camo does not break combat.

 

Good point. Have it reduce their threat to zero and not stealth them then, since it's just their aggro drop ability.

 

Oh, don't like that do you?

[Achyllis]

Why is it silly? Its the Sentinels agro drop ability.

 

And force camo does not break combat.

 

I get a dps class needing an agro dump. It doesn't need to be on 45 second CD. It certainly should not allow you to simply disappear in PvP.

 

It absolutely breaks combat in PvP. Or is that a hack?

[doctorfirepants]

Maybe you should take a tip on learning what abilities other classes have. The marauder- who is used to having an endless supply of CC, escapes, defensive CDs and gap closers- listed all sorts of ways to counter a few of the marauder abilities- without noting that no class actually has enough CC to get through them all.

 

Asking classes to knockback twice? No class can do that. Multiple stuns needed? Not many classes have more than one, and you have forgotten there's a thing called resolve- no surprise you've forgotten when you can have up to 3 roots on very short CDs as a marauder and never have to worry about it- too bad most other classes don't get the same freebies marauders do. Defensive CDs? Most classes get one or two- some get zero.

 

I know, you've been spoiled by free wins as a marauder because you actually have all the utility abilities to do all that stuff- but try playing another class with a single knockback and stun, no defensive CDs and you'll understand.

 

Whoa there, telling me to learn classes and you claim marauders have an endless supply of CC's and gap closers, sure you can have up to three roots if you spec into it and play carnage class, which most marauders don't. But you wouldn't know that. Not to mention that roots only do just that root you in place. You can still attack, and as a melee that means I will be in range for you to attack me if I plan on attacking you. What about knock backs that are ties to roots. Range classes can sit there and strike me without a care in the world and I can't do a single thing about it. What about knock backs followed by snares. Yes you right some classes don't have to use abilities for defense because they have it built into there class design. Armor, range , stealth, speed....some classes have an abundance of CC. I don't have the luxury to knock someone back and root them in place. Despite your claims of endless CC, I can't stun them and strike at will without fear of retaliation. Your big statement is try playing a class with a single knock back and stun....that's more than I have. Oh wait, I have a 4 meter mez which does absolutely nothing for me. Im fine with getting rid of all my defensive CD's, just make all my abilities ranged then. It's clear that you have read through the marauders skills, but you have absolutely no idea how the class functions. Which is why you get beat by them, so I guess l2p. You should take your own advice and try playing one...then you'll understand.

[LiveandDieinLA]

I get a dps class needing an agro dump. It doesn't need to be on 45 second CD. It certainly should not allow you to simply disappear in PvP.

 

It absolutely breaks combat in PvP. Or is that a hack?

 

I can confirm 100% that it doesnt break combat in PVP or PVE.

 

And as far as taking away the stealth to make force camo a pve only agro drop, that's cool, I'd take it, as long as taunts don't decrease damage in pvp either. I mean, I get a tank class having a taunt for PVE purposes, but such an ability shouldn't have any place in pvp right?

[Blloodbane]

I can confirm 100% that it doesnt break combat in PVP or PVE.

 

Yes this is true, in fact, if you look at your radar you will see red blip... only thing it drops is targetting... I think... Some times I still hear a grav round going off after I stealth and kills me...

 

You can also be rooted....

[Ahhmyface]

I think marauders are slightly overpowered on the defensive CD side. Yes, they can be countered. That doesn't mean that they aren't still better than everyone else's defensive cds, which are countered much much easier.

 

Anybody want to tell me to L2P? Go ahead, I'm ready to laugh at you.

Edited May 11, 2012 by Ahhmyface

[Blloodbane]

I think marauders are slightly overpowered on the defensive CD side. Yes, they can be countered. That doesn't mean that they aren't still better than everyone else's defensive cds, which are countered much much easier.

 

Anybody want to tell me to L2P? Go ahead, I'm ready to laugh at you.

 

First, if you beleived every QQ thread here that is posted, EVERYTHING is OP and needs to be nerfed. Next, I think most of the threads center around Expertise and the changes they made. Not all Marauders and Sentinels play Anhilation and Watchman specc's, and I do know many of the proposed changes would make the other trees less viable and more than likely useless.

 

So if ANYTHING gets changed, I would suspect it might be expertise, but that depends BW and what they set the TTK too. Some people love the quicker combat, some people hate it...

 

Of the thousands that PVP, at best, 40 to 60 of them post here (through out the day)... half of of those do nothing but constantly BMC and whine.

[Achyllis]

I can confirm 100% that it doesnt break combat in PVP or PVE.

 

And as far as taking away the stealth to make force camo a pve only agro drop, that's cool, I'd take it, as long as taunts don't decrease damage in pvp either. I mean, I get a tank class having a taunt for PVE purposes, but such an ability shouldn't have any place in pvp right?

 

Thanks for the info. If it breaks combat it's a hack. Is the 45 second CD right?

 

On the tank side do you mean the guard skill or the taunt skill?

 

I would argue the "holy trinity" mechanic is the dumbest idea in MMOs. What sentient being is going to ignore a healer to focus on the meat shield?

[LiveandDieinLA]

Thanks for the info. If it breaks combat it's a hack. Is the 45 second CD right?

 

On the tank side do you mean the guard skill or the taunt skill?

 

I would argue the "holy trinity" mechanic is the dumbest idea in MMOs. What sentient being is going to ignore a healer to focus on the meat shield?

 

Yes the CD is 45 seconds.I could see BW increasing that CD, as well as the CD on UR (or maybe just getting rid of the PVP set bonus which decreases the CD of UR).

 

I was just being cute about the taunt thing. I actually think its a good thing that abilities like guard, taunt, and force camo, which in design are PVE abilities, have their place in pvp.

[Xerain]

DPS and Defenses are not the problem with Marauder/Sentinel. It's the lack of player skill on everyone's part that is the problem. "herp derp spam lightning get beat in the face with two lightsabers!"

[Blloodbane]

DPS and Defenses are not the problem with Marauder/Sentinel. It's the lack of player skill on everyone's part that is the problem. "herp derp spam lightning get beat in the face with two lightsabers!"

 

The problem is that everyone got use to PVP with Expertise and the TTK in pre 1.2 and the changes to expertise post 1.2 and the lowering of the TTK is what people are complaining about it, they just dont know it...

 

All the QQ threads are about DPS and how fast they die, its not limited to Marauders and Sentinels, the problem is some people face class X more than Class Y and get spanked and instantly assume the class is OP that killed them. As such since there was a rather abundant amount of non-melee pre 1.2 equates to shock value and most not willing to adapt to the new changes by using the same tactics as before.

 

If ANYTHING happens, it will be a tweek to expertise.

[otherworlder]

best offensive with the best defensive cooldowns. thats the problem

 

Right here. Wisdom.

 

Classes with the same or even far less burst have considerably fewer and/or worse defensive CDs on considerably longer timers. 2+2 folks.

[HurricaneXXIV]

You don't need as many CD's when you are a range class. Range in itself is a defense.

 

Jugs/Guardians have tank specs, gear and stances to reduce damage. Ranged has range and ways to slip melee ie gunslingers and sages. Your two stealth class have very limited ranged but more stuns and the ability to stealth. It's all give and take.

 

Melee should also always out damage in ranged class if both are in melee range.

Edited May 11, 2012 by HurricaneXXIV

[LiveandDieinLA]

You don't need as many CD's when you are a range class. Range in itself is a defense.

 

Jugs/Guardians have tank specs, gear and stances to reduce damage. Ranged has range and ways to slip melee ie gunslingers and sages. Your two stealth class have very limited ranged but more stuns and the ability to stealth. It's all give and take.

 

Melee should also always out damage in ranged class when they are on a target to make up for the times when they can't attack. Any advance class can top a damage meter!

 

QFT

 

5char

[otherworlder]

You don't need as many CD's when you are a range class. Range in itself is a defense.

 

Jugs/Guardians have tank specs, gear and stances to reduce damage. Ranged has range and ways to slip melee ie gunslingers and sages. Your two stealth class have very limited ranged but more stuns and the ability to stealth. It's all give and take.

 

Melee should also always out damage in ranged class if both are in melee range.

 

If you're implying that a juggernaut has anything close to the survivability of a marauder right now, I suspect you've not played one (tank or dps).

 

Also, any melee dpser that cannot stay on top of a ranged AC in the present state of the game is playing incorrectly. There are far, far too many melee gap closers compared to ranged escape abilities and snares, making "but range is a defense!" a largely moot argument.

 

If you're in range for me to shoot you with a blaster, I'm in range for you to charge. That is not a usable deadzone.

[Vodrin]

Yes the CD is 45 seconds.I could see BW increasing that CD, as well as the CD on UR (or maybe just getting rid of the PVP set bonus which decreases the CD of UR).

 

I was just being cute about the taunt thing. I actually think its a good thing that abilities like guard, taunt, and force camo, which in design are PVE abilities, have their place in pvp.

 

My only beef with these abilities and sent/mara overall is the (relatively) short cooldowns on them. The class can be very tough to counter if they have all those cooldowns available and use them well.

[Xerain]

The problem is that everyone got use to PVP with Expertise and the TTK in pre 1.2 and the changes to expertise post 1.2 and the lowering of the TTK is what people are complaining about it, they just dont know it...

 

All the QQ threads are about DPS and how fast they die, its not limited to Marauders and Sentinels, the problem is some people face class X more than Class Y and get spanked and instantly assume the class is OP that killed them. As such since there was a rather abundant amount of non-melee pre 1.2 equates to shock value and most not willing to adapt to the new changes by using the same tactics as before.

 

If ANYTHING happens, it will be a tweek to expertise.

 

well we all are going to have much higher HP too than pre 1.2 and the way it stood pre 1.2 expertise wasn't working as intended and we were taking less damage than we should of now the +damage and +defense is evened out so 100 damage = 100 damage.

[HurricaneXXIV]

If you're implying that a juggernaut has anything close to the survivability of a marauder right now, I suspect you've not played one (tank or dps).

 

Also, any melee dpser that cannot stay on top of a ranged AC in the present state of the game is playing incorrectly. There are far, far too many melee gap closers compared to ranged escape abilities and snares, making "but range is a defense!" a largely moot argument.

 

If you're in range for me to shoot you with a blaster, I'm in range for you to charge. That is not a usable deadzone.

 

How geared is your jug or guardian? In our matches they normally are the last ones standing. We run with 3 different speced ones. One is full tank, impossible for one person to bring down, 1 is 10/31/0 with a mix of tank/dps and the other is a force sweep spec. The only one that may be less durable is the force sweep spec, he is also smart enough to change stances to hold nodes. Lots of games he is top dps.

 

If you play with teamates at all melee is extremely easy to kite. There is far more CC than leaps or gap closers. Unless you play a merc I'm not sure how you don't see that.

[HurricaneXXIV]

My only beef with these abilities and sent/mara overall is the (relatively) short cooldowns on them. The class can be very tough to counter if they have all those cooldowns available and use them well.

 

The respawns in this game are very short. It's rare you will ever catch them when they are all up. It's the same for every class.

[leechiwan]

Force shroud also makes you immune to all cc in the game, and since it doesnt cost you half your life it can be used whenever the assassin wants.

 

this is so wrong.. sins can be rooted by leaps, pushed by juggs, rooted by a creeping terror, and low slashed by deception sins, and there is one other skill that will cc a sin while force shroud is up.. Just cant think of the name..

[Vodrin]

The respawns in this game are very short. It's rare you will ever catch them when they are all up. It's the same for every class.

 

Not entirely true. The only other class setup that has as many solid defensive abilities with comparable cooldowns is a Immortal/heavy vengeance hybrid (14/27 or something close). It's the only other class I have played (and I've played most of them) that can bring heavy damage while having extraordinary survival skills.

[Vodrin]

this is so wrong.. sins can be rooted by leaps, pushed by juggs, rooted by a creeping terror, and low slashed by deception sins, and there is one other skill that will cc a sin while force shroud is up.. Just cant think of the name..

 

Almost correct. Force push does not work on a sin with force shroud up. None of the Jugg CC's, other than the root attached to force charge, do as they are all force abilities. The marauder snare does though, as do the roots on ravage and the heal debuff if spec'd in carnage. The sniper/gunslinger root also works, and low slash does work. Basically only melee/ranged CC's work in that instance. Force/Tech do not.

[criminalheretic]

Right here. Wisdom.

 

Classes with the same or even far less burst have considerably fewer and/or worse defensive CDs on considerably longer timers. 2+2 folks.

 

And heavy armor, and the ability to attack from range or close up... So yes it is 2+2...