Boba Fett is Both Dead and Alive (Technically)

[bmhale]

just to be clear here I have not gotten anyones arguement mixed up here.

 

If everything Lucas aproves is C-canon then Explain The Holiday Special, Star Wars demolition, Star Wars masters of teras Kasi, and The HOliday Special.

 

Answer me this what are the rules for G-canon and C-canon specifcally. Then you will find your answer. As for proof I have shown MULTIPLE quotes from George Lucas and others saying Boba Fett is dead.

 

Tell you what I will make it real simple for you.

 

 

G-canon is absolute canon; the movies (their most recent release), the scripts, the novelizations of the movies, the radio plays, and any statements by George Lucas himself. G-canon overrides the lower levels of canon when there is a contradiction. Within G-canon, many fans follow an unofficial progression of canonicity where the movies are the highest canon, followed by the scripts, the novelizations, and then the radio plays.

T-canon[2] refers to the canon level comprising only the two television shows: Star Wars: The Clone Wars and the Star Wars live-action TV series. Its precedence over C-Level canon was confirmed by Chee.[3]

C-canon is primarily composed of elements from the Expanded Universe including books, comics, and games bearing the label of Star Wars. Games and RPG sourcebooks are a special case; the stories and general background information are themselves fully C-canon, but the other elements such as character/item statistics and gameplay are, with few exceptions, N-canon.

S-canon is secondary canon; the story itself is considered non-continuity, but the non-contradicting elements are still a canon part of the Star Wars universe. This includes things like the online roleplaying game Star Wars: Galaxies and certain elements of a few N-canon stories.

N-canon is non-canon. "What-if" stories (such as stories published under the Star Wars: Infinities label), crossover appearances (such as the Star Wars character appearances in Soulcalibur IV), game statistics, and anything else directly contradicted by higher canon ends up here. N-canon is the only level that is not considered official canon by Lucasfilm. A significant amount of material that was previously C-canon was rendered N-canon by the release of Episodes I-III.

 

 

Do you disagree with the rules of Star Wars Canon?

 

See, you say it is just that simple, but you are ignoring a key part of those rules. It's the paragraph just before the definitions you posted that spells out the case-by-case caveat:

 

G, T, C and S together form the overall Star Wars continuity. Each ascending level typically overrides the lower ones; for example, Boba Fett's back story was radically altered with the release of Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones, forcing the retcon of older source material to fall in line with the new G-canon back story. However, this is not always absolute, and the resolution of all contradictions is handled on a case-by-case basis.

 

Following this is the definition of the canon levels which you posted. Note the use of the word "typically" (meaning "usually") and the fact that it is specifically noted that what you're saying is "not always absolute."

 

Fett was one of those cases: his back-story was retconned, making the previous versions of his back-story into false rumors that circulate about him (I should note: retcon does not necessarily mean deletion -- usually it is a rather minor alteration to a story to make it retroactively fit continuity). However, his story beyond the movie was one of the two exceptions where C-canon was allowed to live on despite being declared dead by Lucas's statement, as specifically pointed out by Chee (who created the G/T/C/S/N hierarchy in the first place) about one year after Lucas's statement. Chee explains the entire system pretty thoroughly on this FAQ on his blog.

 

The OP was right in his post, and there is plenty of evidence to back it up. It is a contradiction, and for some reason that really seems to bother you, but it is correct.

[Captain_Zone]

Paraphrasing for brevity here:

 

George's WORDS: Boba Fett died in my story.

 

George's ACTIONS: Boba Fett approved to return in the Expanded Universe in post-RotJ C-Canon.

 

George's WORDS: (Testifying before Congress) Movies should not be altered, but should be left the way they are for everyone to enjoy in their original form.

 

George's ACTIONS: Altered - drastically in some ways- the Original Trilogy so that things we have held as true for many years are no longer true in his view. He retconned himself.

 

His credibility is already in the toilet when it comes to his actions and words contradicting each other. Like I said, I paraphrased here since I have to get ready for work and don't have time to post the actual quotes.

[Tuscad]

 

George's WORDS: (Testifying before Congress) Movies should not be altered, but should be left the way they are for everyone to enjoy in their original form.

I remember reading that. What a hypocrite, lol.

[bmhale]

Paraphrasing for brevity here:

 

George's WORDS: Boba Fett died in my story.

 

George's ACTIONS: Boba Fett approved to return in the Expanded Universe in post-RotJ C-Canon.

 

George's WORDS: (Testifying before Congress) Movies should not be altered, but should be left the way they are for everyone to enjoy in their original form.

 

George's ACTIONS: Altered - drastically in some ways- the Original Trilogy so that things we have held as true for many years are no longer true in his view. He retconned himself.

 

His credibility is already in the toilet when it comes to his actions and words contradicting each other. Like I said, I paraphrased here since I have to get ready for work and don't have time to post the actual quotes.

 

It's a bit off topic, but I had a couple minutes before heading to work myself, so I dug up a link to the speech for those who are interested in reading it. As well as an interesting article describing his refusal to submit original versions of the OT to the Library of Congress for archival in the National Film Registry. They do have copies, according to a quoted official statement, but those copies have suffered some damage and degradation.

[Captain_Zone]

It's a bit off topic, but I had a couple minutes before heading to work myself, so I dug up a link to the speech for those who are interested in reading it. As well as an interesting article describing his refusal to submit original versions of the OT to the Library of Congress for archival in the National Film Registry. They do have copies, according to a quoted official statement, but those copies have suffered some damage and degradation.

 

God bless you, sir. And God bless my Droid. I love it when work is slow in the mornings.

Edited May 14, 2012 by Captain_Zone

[jarjarloves]

It's a bit off topic, but I had a couple minutes before heading to work myself, so I dug up a link to the speech for those who are interested in reading it. As well as an interesting article describing his refusal to submit original versions of the OT to the Library of Congress for archival in the National Film Registry. They do have copies, according to a quoted official statement, but those copies have suffered some damage and degradation.

 

that's no where near as bad as this

 

Yeah Lucas has changed his mind and contradicited himself many many times but that doesn't matter it's still HIS universe.

 

Leeland Chee and everyone else has say the canon changes on Lucas's whim. If Lucas wants to come out tomorrow and make it so Boba Fett is alive then he can do it and that's fine, Just like how he changed how now Greedo shot first, its a stupid idea and destroy's Hans Character but that is the OFFICIAL story.

 

If you like the unofficial Han shoots first version better that's cool I know I do but I also know it's not the official story.

 

Captin Zone you say again and again look at Lucas's actions well his actions show that after the long list of things he has changed or added to the OT (including what 4 new shots of Boba Fett) he has never added a 2 sec shot of Boba Fett crawling out. Or even the Sarlac exploding in the background as they speed away. He has remaind firm on the grounds that Boba Fett dies yes I know he gave permsion to allow him to come back in the EU. but he has allowed a TON of stuff to come out in the EU that is not considered canon. The onlly difference is you really want it to be true so you ignore the actual truth.

Edited May 14, 2012 by jarjarloves

[Captain_Zone]

that's no where near as bad as this

 

Yeah Lucas has changed his mind and contradicited himself many many times but that doesn't matter it's still HIS universe.

 

Leeland Chee and everyone else has say the canon changes on Lucas's whim. If Lucas wants to come out tomorrow and make it so Boba Fett is alive then he can do it and that's fine, Just like how he changed how now Greedo shot first, its a stupid idea and destroy's Hans Character but that is the OFFICIAL story.

 

If you like the unofficial Han shoots first version better that's cool I know I do but I also know it's not the official story.

 

Captain Zone you say again and again look at Lucas's actions well his actions show that after the long list of things he has changed or added to the OT (including what 4 new shots of Boba Fett) he has never added a 2 sec shot of Boba Fett crawling out. Or even the Sarlac exploding in the background as they speed away. He has remaind firm on the grounds that Boba Fett dies yes I know he gave permsion to allow him to come back in the EU. but he has allowed a TON of stuff to come out in the EU that is not considered canon. The onlly difference is you really want it to be true so you ignore the actual truth.

Fixed your half-witted attempt at an insult.

 

I've tried to appeal to your common sense.

 

Others have posted quotes by Steve Sansweet where George Lucas APPROVED his return in the Expanded Universe. They also pointed out the canon regs you conveniently ignored. Most notably the one where exceptions to G-Canon are handled on a case by case basis. He was an EXCEPTION according to Leland Chee. His survival in the ExU is C-Canon. You don't want to believe that? Fine. That's on you. Just don't try to force your beliefs on the rest of us when even your boy George approved it. You're out of arguments.

[jarjarloves]

Fixed your half-witted attempt at an insult.

 

I've tried to appeal to your common sense.

 

Others have posted quotes by Steve Sansweet where George Lucas APPROVED his return in the Expanded Universe. They also pointed out the canon regs you conveniently ignored. Most notably the one where exceptions to G-Canon are handled on a case by case basis. He was an EXCEPTION according to Leland Chee. His survival in the ExU is C-Canon. You don't want to believe that? Fine. That's on you. Just don't try to force your beliefs on the rest of us when even your boy George approved it. You're out of arguments.

 

rofl I fixed i honestly thought that was your name. I never looked that close lol

 

NO ONE EVER ARGUED THAT LUCAS DIDN"T APROVE IT.

 

No where does it say Boba Fetts return is an exception. It says something ABOUT Boba Fett is an exception but it never says what.

 

Again how many things are approved by George Lucas that are not considered C-canon? you have yet to proide ANY proof that says otherwise.

[Tuscad]

Let's just write George Lucas and see what happens, hell, we would all probably get different answers if he replied. This is the only way that this can be settled.

[jarjarloves]

Let's just write George Lucas and see what happens, hell, we would all probably get different answers if he replied. This is the only way that this can be settled.

 

it's pretty clear he wants him to be dead otherwise he would have said he survives or even added a scene in ROTJ. But he allows books to be made because he wants the money.

 

Captain Zone thinks that since he is allowing books to be written so he can get money for it then that proves that he is alive in the Canon. Completely ignoring the fact that lucas on many occasions has aproved things and not made them canon.

 

Captian is under the entitled belief that if George is taking his money it better be considered canon.

[Tuscad]

it's pretty clear he wants him to be dead otherwise he would have said he survives or even added a scene in ROTJ. But he allows books to be made because he wants the money.

 

Captain Zone thinks that since he is allowing books to be written so he can get money for it then that proves that he is alive in the Canon. Completely ignoring the fact that lucas on many occasions has aproved things and not made them canon.

 

Captian is under the entitled belief that if George is taking his money it better be considered canon.

 

I agree with the Captain, oh Captain, my Captain. I seriously agree with Captain Zone. Everything that George approves is canon unless he or Chee says that it is not (or it is released under the infinities brand).

Edited May 14, 2012 by Tuscad

[jarjarloves]

I agree with the Captain, oh Captain, my Captain. I seriously agree with Captain Zone.

 

it's ok to agree with him but you are wrong. George Lucas said that Boba Fett is dead he has never said otherwise. His actions prove that he is dead. Not much left to argue really. They still can't provide me with one quote from Lucas saying he is alive.

[Velaran]

Just let him get the last word. It's pretty clear JarJar is going to ignore the veritable mountain of evidence against his argument, and just keep pushing his viewpoint down everyone's throat.

 

It's best to just let this go now.

[jarjarloves]

Just let him get the last word. It's pretty clear JarJar is going to ignore the veritable mountain of evidence against his argument, and just keep pushing his viewpoint down everyone's throat.

 

It's best to just let this go now.

 

WHAT EVIDENCE?? Show me please show me.

 

Meanwhile you ignore George Lucas saying that Boba Fett is dead.

[Velaran]

WHAT EVIDENCE?? Show me please show me.

 

Basically, anything anyone has posted for the last five or so pages.

[jarjarloves]

Basically, anything anyone has posted for the last five or so pages.

 

which is what? the only thing people have posted is "well lucas aproved it"

 

great he also aproved the Holiday Special Star Wars Demolition and Star tours none of which are canon which proves just because it is aproved it doesn't mean its canon.

 

NO ONE has provedid a single quote where Lucas said Boba Fett is alive. Lucas's actions show that he wants him to remian dead as he has not even willing to put anything in ROTJ to say he is alive.

[Roccobb]

Has Mr. Lucas allowed this character to show up in every major series in the last 15 years? Yes. He was a little part of the New Jedi Order. He plays a significant role in Legacy. He played a part in Fate of the Jedi. Not to mention all the other novels that have come out lately.

 

Of course, I have a hard time understanding what George Lucas thinks. He says something that always contradicts something he has said in the past. Half of the things he says, it seems as if he just pulls it out of his ..... It is his universe. No, it was his universe. It is now ours. The day he let Timothy Zahn write the first word in a novel, it became ours.

 

 

The day he allowed them to kill Chewie, it really became ours.

 

[jarjarloves]

Has Mr. Lucas allowed this character to show up in every major series in the last 15 years? Yes. He was a little part of the New Jedi Order. He plays a significant role in Legacy. He played a part in Fate of the Jedi. Not to mention all the other novels that have come out lately.

 

Of course, I have a hard time understanding what George Lucas thinks. He says something that always contradicts something he has said in the past. Half of the things he says, it seems as if he just pulls it out of his ..... It is his universe. No, it was his universe. It is now ours. The day he let Timothy Zahn write the first word in a novel, it became ours.

 

 

The day he allowed them to kill Chewie, it really became ours.

 

Lucas actually didn't allow Chewie to die. What happeend is they never asked for permision to kill him. Which goes to show that some times they don't need permision to do things but it still doesn't make it canon. '

 

SS (Shelly Shapiro, Editorial director, Del Ray Books):

We didn’t get George’s permission to kill Chewie in particular: Chewie was simply not one of the characters George said we could not kill.

 

Lucas' statements in Starlog were commented on in a December 7, 2005 post on the starwars.com forums by Leland Chee, who maintains Lucas Licensing's continuity database:

CHEE: "GL is certainly not bound by the EU, though he's certainly open to using things created in it (Aayla Secura and the Coruscant name, for example). On the other hand, the quote you provide makes it sound like the EU is separate from George's vision of the Star Wars universe. It is not. The EU must follow certain tenets set by George through the films and other guidelines that he provides outside of the films.

 

 

This policy has been further refined and fleshed out over the years. The official Star Wars website has also detailed the role of canon, Expanded Universe, or "EU" sources, and how they fit into overall Star Wars continuity. In a 2001 "Ask the Jedi Council" response by Steve Sansweet (director of fan relations) and Chris Cerasi (an editor for Lucas Books at the time), it was stated that:

“ When it comes to absolute canon, the real story of Star Wars, you must turn to the films themselves — and only the films. Even novelizations are interpretations of the film, and while they are largely true to George Lucas' vision (he works quite closely with the novel authors), the method in which they are written does allow for some minor differences. The novelizations are written concurrently with the film's production, so variations in detail do creep in from time to time. Nonetheless, they should be regarded as very accurate depictions of the fictional Star Wars movies.

The further one branches away from the movies, the more interpretation and speculation come into play. LucasBooks works diligently to keep the continuing Star Wars expanded universe cohesive and uniform, but stylistically, there is always room for variation. Not all artists draw Luke Skywalker the same way. Not all writers define the character in the same fashion. The particular attributes of individual media also come into play. A comic book interpretation of an event will likely have less dialogue or different pacing than a novel version. A video game has to take an interactive approach that favors gameplay. So too must card and roleplaying games ascribe certain characteristics to characters and events in order to make them playable.

The analogy is that every piece of published Star Wars fiction is a window into the 'real' Star Wars universe. Some windows are a bit foggier than others. Some are decidedly abstract. But each contains a nugget of truth to them.

 

Is there anything post-Return of the Jedi that is G level?

Leeland- Not in the database, no. If there is anything anywhere, only George knows.

Edited May 14, 2012 by jarjarloves

[Roccobb]

Lucas actually didn't allow Chewie to die. What happeend is they never asked for permision to kill him. Which goes to show that some times they don't need permision to do things but it still doesn't make it canon. '

 

LOL, if someone takes the time to put something in spoiler tags, why would whatever you respond with not be in spoiler tags? That's just messed up.

 

Edit: But I am kind of wondering who is still on the do not kill list... I fully expected Luke to die in Fate....

Edited May 14, 2012 by Roccobb

[jarjarloves]

LOL, if someone takes the time to put something in spoiler tags, why would whatever you respond with not be in spoiler tags? That's just messed up.

 

Edit: But I am kind of wondering who is still on the do not kill list... I fully expected Luke to die in Fate....

 

it's reallly not a spoiler anyomre it's at the level of Snape Killed Dumbledoor.

 

Luke is on the do not kill list as is Leia and Han. Not sure who else though.

[Tuscad]

it's reallly not a spoiler anyomre it's at the level of Snape Killed Dumbledoor.

 

Luke is on the do not kill list as is Leia and Han. Not sure who else though.

 

Boba Fett. (Trollface.jpg)

[jarjarloves]

Boba Fett. (Trollface.jpg)

 

well played

[Hambunctious]

So you think of Star Wars as nothing more than comic books with better continuity??? Well, that's your right to not want the ExU to be canon. Although, in order to get that changed, you'll need to write a very persuasive letter to either George Lucas or Leland Chee. Good luck with that.

 

I don't have to do any such thing. He's already said the movies are the only real canon to him. I could make up my own stories about what happened after rotj, and I would be just as valid as those writers that came up those alternate reality stories. That's how it works. Anything they make up is their universe, not GL's. You have the right to enjoy the happenings in their universe, more power to you. I'll enjoy the one I choose, more power to me.

 

Fett is dead in GL's universe, but I am sure he's alive, and well in an infinite number of other universes. This post might be beyond many of you.

[Tuscad]

I could make up my own stories about what happened after rotj, and I would be just as valid as those writers that came up those alternate reality stories. That's how it works.

 

 

No it isn't, that would be Fanon.

[Hambunctious]

No it isn't, that would be Fanon.

 

Yes it is, but the concept is beyond you.