Nerf Marauder? Marauder can't do this:

[SinnedWill]

I consider pyros the mid-range snipers. Good ones are rare because they don't play the mid range. Most tend to come to melee range.

 

Good ones need to come within 10m (or just grapple someone) to spam flame burst so that they can spam rail shot. They typically result in dps races with their targets and usually win. They can also keep outside of melee range (kite) while still spamming flame burst/rail shot. It's a very nice class (and very fun).

 

Also, the best sniper on my server is lethality specced (very mobile -compared to engineer/marksman- and tends to prefer to get into the fray before entrenching + cover pulse) and keep most enemies at medium range. He also wearsPVE gear with pvp armor's mods/enhancements for the better set bonuses and despite having ~ 250 less expertise than everyone else, he can still dish out the pain.

Edited May 10, 2012 by SinnedWill

[Zaodon]

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/192/51371630.jpg/ - Screenshot of Tankasin dealing 7k+ energized shock.

- Vid of Pyro Powertech with sustained damage being more than most burst dps's burst.

 

So, yeah. Pyro P-tech easily out damages maras/sents burst damage with their sustained damage cycles (lol). Tankasin/Shadowtanks can get off 3 recklessness induced energized procs - only takes 2 of these to deal as much (or more if target is squishy) damage as a carnage marauder's gore procced ravage does from a full cycle.

 

Still think maras/sents are #1 on the list to need some changing?

 

This thread scores 1 out of 6 on Zaodon's Guide to Crying for Nerfs (see link in sig)

 

Point #6.

Edited May 10, 2012 by Zaodon

[SinnedWill]

This thread scores 1 out of 6 on Zaodon's Guide to Crying for Nerfs (see link in sig)

 

Point #6.

 

Considering I'm not asking for a nerf to any class and am merely pointing out that many classes are capable of dishing out equivalent (or more) damage compared to marauder, why exactly would you even consider giving me "points"?

[Tremont]

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/192/51371630.jpg/ - Screenshot of Tankasin dealing 7k+ energized shock.

- Vid of Pyro Powertech with sustained damage being more than most burst dps's burst.

 

So, yeah. Pyro P-tech easily out damages maras/sents burst damage with their sustained damage cycles (lol). Tankasin/Shadowtanks can get off 3 recklessness induced energized procs - only takes 2 of these to deal as much (or more if target is squishy) damage as a carnage marauder's gore procced ravage does from a full cycle.

 

Still think maras/sents are #1 on the list to need some changing?

 

Are you saying that a well played Pyro ownes a mara? This is correct. And I mean pre-50 also. Saber classes aren't my concern in PvP except for the occasional well played Shadow.

[vimm]

I think the issue most people have with marauders is their defensive cooldowns.

[SinnedWill]

I think the issue most people have with marauders is their defensive cooldowns.

 

While I can admit that one spec of marauder benefits more in terms of survivability from the defensive cooldowns than most other classes do from theirs, the other specs still die with a quickness even with all 3 of them - pretty much the only time they will always give the marauder a guaranteed edge is in a 1v1 - but even in 1v1, they are easily countered by a good player of ANY class/spec that knows how/when to employ their abilities that counter them (which about 90% of the pvp regulars on my server now do successfully).

[Faat]

Considering I'm not asking for a nerf to any class and am merely pointing out that many classes are capable of dishing out equivalent (or more) damage compared to marauder, why exactly would you even consider giving me "points"?

 

Don't nerf me bro, in other words.

 

/popcorn

[vimm]

While I can admit that one spec of marauder benefits more in terms of survivability from the defensive cooldowns than most other classes do from theirs, the other specs still die with a quickness even with all 3 of them - pretty much the only time they will always give the marauder a guaranteed edge is in a 1v1 - but even in 1v1, they are easily countered by a good player of ANY class/spec that knows how/when to employ their abilities that counter them (which about 90% of the pvp regulars on my server now do successfully).

 

Force Camo is a get out of jail free card, lol.

[SinnedWill]

Are you saying that a well played Pyro ownes a mara? This is correct. And I mean pre-50 also. Saber classes aren't my concern in PvP except for the occasional well played Shadow.

 

Heh, yeah, p-tech is very fun. I'd say my p-tech (sub-50)'s weaknesses happen to be internal damage dealers (multiple DoT stacks add up quickly and I hate when they're on a platform in huttball where I grapple them and they strike the edge or an obstruction so I waste my attempt to bring them to me) and the occasional assassin/shadow. Fortunately, I haven't seen many ops/scound (melees), so I'm not sure how well they perform against my P-Tech. But yes, everything else is pretty much cake (snipers/slingers just prolong the inevitable when they blind me) - maras/sents usually die with me only taking a few hits.

[Varicite]

While I can admit that one spec of marauder benefits more in terms of survivability from the defensive cooldowns than most other classes do from theirs, the other specs still die with a quickness even with all 3 of them - pretty much the only time they will always give the marauder a guaranteed edge is in a 1v1 - but even in 1v1, they are easily countered by a good player of ANY class/spec that knows how/when to employ their abilities that counter them (which about 90% of the pvp regulars on my server now do successfully).

 

The real problem is that NO OTHER CLASS OR AC IN THE GAME has so MANY cooldowns that basically mean: You cannot hit me for the next 5 seconds.

 

Undying Rage

Cloak of Pain

Vanish

 

10 seconds of Mara DPS'ing you while you cannot do anything back to them, or have to save 10 seconds worth of CC to stop them, or simply do 20% less damage to the Mara for the duration of the fight. You say "employ their abilities that counter them", but most classes do NOT HAVE 10 seconds of CC. They definitely do not have 10 seconds of CC for every Mara on the battlefield. That's the problem. Most classes are a free kill for a Mara worth their salt.

 

That list of defensive cds is about equal to the list that every other AC in the game receives (more than some, like PT). Now you need to add Obfuscate, Saber Ward, and fairly decent self-heals into the mix on top of some of the best group buffs in the game.

 

No one complained about Mara "burst", so I don't see what the point of this thread is.

[PloGreen]

Do peopel really think this is balanced? Because in all honesty (imo) it was better before 1.2.

[SinnedWill]

Don't nerf me bro, in other words.

 

/popcorn

 

Well, if they DO nerf mara, they'll likely have to nerf everything else... OR they could just make some changes to the metrics involving expertise (considering this is the real issue). Marauder isn't even my main character, and I have NO problems with how they perform against me on any of my other characters (I suppose I learned more quickly than the people that QQ in therms of what to do to counter them since I have one).

 

And share the popcorn! =p

[PloGreen]

Well, if they DO nerf mara, they'll likely have to nerf everything else... OR they could just make some changes to the metrics involving expertise (considering this is the real issue). Marauder isn't even my main character, and I have NO problems with how they perform against me on any of my other characters (I suppose I learned more quickly than the people that QQ in therms of what to do to counter them since I have one).

 

And share the popcorn! =p

 

Why would they have to nerf everyone else?

[Zaodon]

Considering I'm not asking for a nerf to any class and am merely pointing out that many classes are capable of dishing out equivalent (or more) damage compared to marauder, why exactly would you even consider giving me "points"?

 

Lies.

 

These are your words:

 

"Still think maras/sents are #1 on the list to need some changing? "

 

I highlighted the word you used to ask for nerfs, in case you missed it.

Edited May 10, 2012 by Zaodon

[Jarfunkz]

Please, I would love to see you make any class other than pyro p-tech dish out the same damage in 3 GCD's trinketed and untrinketed (sure sins/shadows and ops/scounds can come close, but they can't spam like this - tankasin/shadtank being the closest thing to an exception). Furthermore I consider that sustained damage since I'm referring to the abilities (railshot CD resets on flame bursts/rocket punches, thus there is no real downtime unless you overheat). I have a Pyro P-Tech myself, though it's only 27 and I'm well aware of how easily it can overheat. I also have a Carnage Marauder (50 with BM/WH gear), Tankasin (50 with recruit/BM/WH gear), MM Sniper (32, and thinking of going lethality at 50), and Madness Sorc (50 with 3 pieces missing from full WH gear). Again, just pointing out facts to show people that there are other things to QQ about than Marauders.

 

The only thing you have proven is that you have never known the love of a woman or had a life outside a computer monitor.

[kuey]

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/192/51371630.jpg/ - Screenshot of Tankasin dealing 7k+ energized shock.

 

Hi.

 

http://www.rogean.com/images/7479ks.jpg

 

What was that about can't do 7k?

[Jarfunkz]

Are you saying that a well played Pyro ownes a mara? This is correct. And I mean pre-50 also. Saber classes aren't my concern in PvP except for the occasional well played Shadow.

 

mara's wreck pyros, you must be thinking of fresh 50 maras vs wh pyro.

[SinnedWill]

The real problem is that NO OTHER CLASS OR AC IN THE GAME has so MANY cooldowns that basically mean: You cannot hit me for the next 5 seconds.

Undying Rage

Cloak of Pain

Vanish

10 seconds of Mara DPS'ing you while you cannot do anything back to them, or have to save 10 seconds worth of CC to stop them, or simply do 20% less damage to the Mara for the duration of the fight. You say "employ their abilities that counter them", but most classes do NOT HAVE 10 seconds of CC. They definitely do not have 10 seconds of CC for every Mara on the battlefield. That's the problem. Most classes are a free kill for a Mara worth their salt.

That list of defensive cds is about equal to the list that every other AC in the game receives (more than some, like PT). Now you need to add Obfuscate, Saber Ward, and fairly decent self-heals into the mix on top of some of the best group buffs in the game.

No one complained about Mara "burst", so I don't see what the point of this thread is.

Even with every defensive CD ready (unless I use force camo to escape - which is rarely the case), my Carnage Marauder still dies more quickly than every other class I play. Yes, every class CAN counter them - if you lack CC, you'll need to resort to strafe-attacking while they're slowed (I understand this is difficult for Arsenal/Gunnery specced Merc/Commandos being the only exception - but this spec isn't meant to be played solo and cannot even perform well without group-mates peeling aggro). Furthermore, by countering, I mean avoiding their primary damage (for instance, a knockback + slow or root will typically result in my carnage marauder's gore proc fading before I can even take advantage of having it and I will do minimal dps until it returns - similar tactics apply for annihilation marauder after they pop deadly saber or rage marauders with shockwave stacks) and knowing when to stun a marauder (saving stuns for when they're at ~30-40% health is typically enough time for pretty much any class to apply burst damage to finish them off before they can pop undying rage).

Assassins/Shadows have more defensive CD's (counting taunts) and arguably the best defnsive bubble - Sorc/Sage, Ops/Scounds, Snipers/Gunslingers all have roughly the same amount of defensives though not all of them are activated cooldowns and not all are equally effective (some better, some worse). Yes, I understand BH/Commandos have less, but when you consider their innate armor value coupled with defenses obtainable from talents + potential debuffs in addition to their bubble... well, do the math (and although most people don't count taunts as a defensive, it is the most significant -due to short cooldowns and over time- due to the fact that taunts and other damage debuffs stack, it just doesn't apply for you if you're the taunt source).

There is a lot of QQ about marauder damage (namely ravage coming from carnage marauders) - look for a thread with "RAVAGE" in the title, and it seems much of the other QQ is about how every marauder can apply 4 DoT's (which tick for "9999 damage", get 100% armor penetration 6s windows from gore, and also be able to dish out 6.5k smash damages - you know, the whole 31/31/31 spec ever marauder has, lol.

[SinnedWill]

Lies.

 

These are your words:

 

"Still think maras/sents are #1 on the list to need some changing? "

 

I highlighted the word you used to ask for nerfs, in case you missed it.

 

It's a question I posed in light of the facts that expertise is the culprit behind the current damage insanity and it stil stands. If they fixed expertise, do you really think marauders would need a dps nerf when other classes can accomplish just as much (or more) dps in the same time-frame?

[DarthOvertone]

Garbage

 

Awesome. Another nerf thread started by someone that plays on a PvE server.

[SinnedWill]

Hi.

 

 

 

What was that about can't do 7k?

 

Nice hit, but Gore-procced ravage (full, uninterrupted cycle) still does more than 7k (with relics/adrenal) and since that most likely came from a force scream (whatever sentinel's mirror happens to be), we can't use that repeatedly, due to gore and force scream having cooldowns - yet people still QQ that mara/sent dps is unrivaled. But I like that - very nice. Makes me wish I'd get some fights AGAINST the fresh 50's that seem to always be appearing on MY teams since tuesday's patch.

Edited May 10, 2012 by SinnedWill

[SinnedWill]

Awesome. Another nerf thread started by someone that plays on a PvE server.

 

No idea where you took that partial quote from, or what it even pertained to, but I'm not asking for any nerfs. Trying to put a stop to the "omg nerf class x" threads because they did "x" damage to my PvE geared 50. So I tried showing others that other classes are capable (not just Marauder) of huge damage in same amounts of time (some capable of more in less time and able to do it more frequently), then I further went on to explain how/why these classes are doing this - and finally revealed that the culprit behind all of it happens to be expertise metrics on high base damage abilities. The only class I don't play (yet I've experienced first hand as a recipient consistantly) that was included in my list happens to be ops/scoundrel (which is actually the least fortunate class among the list IMO, since after they dish out their big burst damage, their sustaind damage is poor and they'll require more downtime than the others).

Hell, my best character is a sorcerer - and although it can't dish out burst (or even come close) compared to the list, that's not what it's meant to do, and I feel that it still performs great right now (despite the fact that it benefits far less from the expertise damage bonus values than most other classes since it doesn't have any abilities with significant base damage).

Edited May 10, 2012 by SinnedWill

[Motro]

Ops/Scounds (melee - and yes, even post 1.2)

 

LOL'd then stopped reading right here. Enjoy the nerf.

[SinnedWill]

LOL'd then stopped reading right here. Enjoy the nerf.

 

If you finished reading it, I did say I fealt sorry for them once their burst damage is done - I think it's pretty fair to say they need some sustained dps increase (or a complete change to how it currently plays) to revive the spec. You can't deny that it still does nice burst damage potential (if you're actually lucky enough to get your stealth opner in).

[Silwyth]

I only call it sustainable due to the fact that Rail Shot (biggest hit, has 15s CD) gets reset by Flame Burst (spammable and deals ~2k crits without trinkets) - Rail Shot (without power relic/expertise adrenal) still tends to crit for 3.5-5.2k. Thus, the cycle can be used until overheated (and lets be honest, with all the slows/roots/stuns being applied in group combat, it's very easy to spam that cycle until death due to the skill tree). Yes, deception sins are nasty right now, but they really have more down-time to set up their burst damage assaults.

 

Except that PPA (the talent that resets the cd on Rail Shot) also has a cooldown, nice try though.

 

Also, it isn't Mara dmg that people are complaining about. It is the fact that their defensive CDs are better than any tanks.