SinnedWill Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 (edited) http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/192/51371630.jpg/ - Screenshot of Tankasin dealing 7k+ energized shock. - Vid of Pyro Powertech with sustained damage being more than most burst dps's burst. So, yeah. Pyro P-tech easily out damages maras/sents burst damage with their sustained damage cycles (lol). Tankasin/Shadowtanks can get off 3 recklessness induced energized procs - only takes 2 of these to deal as much (or more if target is squishy) damage as a carnage marauder's gore procced ravage does from a full cycle. Still think maras/sents are #1 on the list to need some changing? EDIT: I am not requesting a nerf to any class - I'm trying to increase awareness that Marauders aren't the only ones pushing out huge damage metrics. Ops/Scounds (melee - and yes, even post 1.2), Assassins/Shadows (all specs, though tank and middle tree being the most frequent), Snipers/Gunslingers (all specs), and the 7/3/31 VG/P-Tech spec are all dishing out similar or more damage metrics compared to Maras/Sents. The issue behind what's causing all this is expertise values having much more significant impact on abilities with high base damage values (which further get compounded when combined with talents that improve the damage values and/or grant bonuses to these values such as armor penetration/auto-crit/cooldown reset/crit damage value). So please stop QQ about any one specific class when every class (with 2 exceptions) is equally capable of similar effects. Edited May 10, 2012 by SinnedWill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YanksfanJP Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 (edited) Oh no, a whole whopping 7k against a fresh 50 with no PvP gear (notice his 11k health). Whatever will we do? Nice try, though. Edited May 9, 2012 by YanksfanJP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DweezillKagemand Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 (edited) You seem scared Edited May 9, 2012 by DweezillKagemand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twor Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 The second vid is a burst vid, like already stated its a compliation of CD crits. Not sustained dps. You didn't even read the title of that vid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 I don't even care about Maras. But still, your days are numbered. /shrug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dajag Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 I dont play a Pyro, but these videos are usless, any equipped class can put up those numbers aginst any poorly equipped players, I bet if you actually played a Pyro you would sing a different QQ song about some other class. Pyros are way squishy and are only useful if they go unchecked just like sorcs, the real pains are the AoE spamming Troppers get three of those guys on the other side and you feel the hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinxDuff Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 But still, ToR's days are numbered. FTFY 10 char Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinnedWill Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 I'm not scared. Just showing that rail shot + flame burst spam cycles leads to more damage (in shorter time window with less counterability) than maras dish out via burst. Not all of his targets are undergeared. Hell, in my opinion he could change some of his gear (he's still not even fully WH geared, mind you) and skill points to get even more out of it. And yes, I'm aware he's using relics/adrenals for his damage, my point was that not even a carnage marauder (with relics/adrenals) can out-burst a good pyro powertech even with a gore-procced ravage (which gets the most QQ) that runs for its entire channel-time. I'm only attempting to enlighten people. And LOL about the whole Eclipse pvp thing - I can assure you you never even faced me to be making statements like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overlord- Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 assassins days are numbered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monterone Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 (edited) http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/192/51371630.jpg/ - Screenshot of Tankasin dealing 7k+ energized shock. - Vid of Pyro Powertech with sustained damage being more than most burst dps's burst. So, yeah. Pyro P-tech easily out damages maras/sents burst damage with their sustained damage cycles (lol). Tankasin/Shadowtanks can get off 3 recklessness induced energized procs - only takes 2 of these to deal as much (or more if target is squishy) damage as a carnage marauder's gore procced ravage does from a full cycle. Still think maras/sents are #1 on the list to need some changing? That PT damage is not sustainable. Watch his bars and you can see that's a compilation of single target burst mostly, when 3-4 buffs are hit. That's a setup that can happen on one person every 2 minutes. Not at all different from other classes. Deception sin can set himself up for burst similar to that every 75 seconds. On top of that, some targets are around 12k-13k health, meaning not even wearing Recruit gear. And the pyro is ALWAYS in a pre-made, so it's also possible there are other damage boosts or debuffs present most of the time. Pyro burst is AMAZING... but it is NOT sustainable. Edit: On the other hand, look at focus/rage warriors/knights. They can do crits other classes can only dream about and can set that up a few times a minute. They don't even need to pop any cool downs to get crits higher than that pyro, but when they do their dps is INSANELY higher than what a pyro, operative or an assassin is capable of. Edited May 9, 2012 by Monterone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLakers Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 (edited) Oh no, a whole whopping 7k against a fresh 50 with no PvP gear (notice his 11k health). Whatever will we do? Nice try, though. Tanks shouldn't be criting for 7k. Or out damaging pure dps specs in warzones, which they do all the time without much effort. Nice try though. Anyways, the nerf order list goes as: Tanksin (been long enough) Mara (your class takes no skill to face roll) Pyro tech (your class takes no skill to face roll) Edited May 9, 2012 by TheLakers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 I'm curious where the OP got this silly idea that anyone cares about Marauder "BURST". Yeah, that's not what the complaints are about. At all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vid-szhite Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 (edited) Every single clip, he pops relic and adrenal and usually has the PvP Expertise buff running too. Anyone's burst would be massive with that kind of power stackage. Edited May 9, 2012 by Vid-szhite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinnedWill Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 I dont play a Pyro, but these videos are usless, any equipped class can put up those numbers aginst any poorly equipped players, I bet if you actually played a Pyro you would sing a different QQ song about some other class. Pyros are way squishy and are only useful if they go unchecked just like sorcs, the real pains are the AoE spamming Troppers get three of those guys on the other side and you feel the hurt. Please, I would love to see you make any class other than pyro p-tech dish out the same damage in 3 GCD's trinketed and untrinketed (sure sins/shadows and ops/scounds can come close, but they can't spam like this - tankasin/shadtank being the closest thing to an exception). Furthermore I consider that sustained damage since I'm referring to the abilities (railshot CD resets on flame bursts/rocket punches, thus there is no real downtime unless you overheat). I have a Pyro P-Tech myself, though it's only 27 and I'm well aware of how easily it can overheat. I also have a Carnage Marauder (50 with BM/WH gear), Tankasin (50 with recruit/BM/WH gear), MM Sniper (32, and thinking of going lethality at 50), and Madness Sorc (50 with 3 pieces missing from full WH gear). Again, just pointing out facts to show people that there are other things to QQ about than Marauders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vudu Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 A 7K crit on one target isn't that special when you consider one thermal grenade can do 10K, smash or force sweep can do up to 25K or more, obital strike/xs flyby can do 80K. I think about those times when I drop xs flyby and break 75K after 20 seconds in Void Star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vid-szhite Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 (edited) Tanks shouldn't be criting for 7k. Or out damaging pure dps specs in warzones, which they do all the time without much effort. Nice try though. Yeah, I've done 8k with my Juggernaut without even using Relic/Adrenal on a fresh 50 once, and I'm DPS spec. There's no imbalance here. Anyone can smash a fresh 50 for huge numbers, it doesn't mean a damn thing. If your tanks are outdamaging your DPS, you either have bad DPS or good healers who only heal the tank. Edited May 9, 2012 by Vid-szhite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinnedWill Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 Every single clip, he pops relic and adrenal. Anyone's burst would be massive with that kind of power stackage. Carnage Marauder relic/adrenaled gore procced ravage takes 2-3 GCD's + 3s Ravage channel time (which is easily countered) and deals a total of ~ 8-10k if stars align, every hit (including off-hands actually landing and critting - in actuality, it tends to deal a total of 4-6k with partial completion or 1-2k if you're facing someone that knows when/how best to counter it). This (carnage mara's gore-procced ravage) burst-damage cycle is the biggest source of forum QQ right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosomanic Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Okay, you do have to realize that that compilation was if all the stars line up. Yes, a PT/Vanguard with all cooldowns up can get a string of crits and absolutely destroy the other player. Guess what? Lots of other classes can do that too. Shadows/Assassins, Scoundrels/Operatives, Gunslingers/Shadows, and Sentinels/Marauders can all do massive damage in a couple of seconds if everything goes right. That requires a relic, adrenal, all cooldowns up, and several crits in a row, but almost every class can do it. Doesn't make PT/Vanguards OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vudu Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 I hate pyros. I'll admit it. But, something else I'll admit is the reason I hate them. Because when I first started warzones, my gear wasn't as good as those pyros that were burning me up. Now that the gear is levelled a bit, I'm finding that those same pyros that I used to never beat, and learned to hate, really aren't THAT strong. I'm not going to say learn to play, but that's part of it. Another part, a bigger part, is gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vid-szhite Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 (edited) Carnage Marauder relic/adrenaled gore procced ravage takes 2-3 GCD's + 3s Ravage channel time (which is easily countered) and deals a total of ~ 8-10k if stars align, every hit (including off-hands actually landing and critting - in actuality, it tends to deal a total of 4-6k with partial completion or 1-2k if you're facing someone that knows when/how best to counter it). This (carnage mara's gore-procced ravage) burst-damage cycle is the biggest source of forum QQ right now. Good for them. I've done that kind of damage (8-10k) with Ravage as Vengeance, no adrenal, and as a plus, I get to spam Ravage again in a few seconds because my rotation resets its cooldown, and then I get to blast them with a 5k Vicious Throw that automatically crits. Keep the Marauder QQ coming, it amuses me - the more time passes, the more it's starting to seem like everyone's damage is overpowered. Things I've heard QQs about post 1.2: Assassins Powertechs Juggernauts Marauders Sorcerers Operatives Snipers The only people I've missed are Mercenaries, and that's because the arsenal spec is utter, certifiable garbage in PvP, and everyone refuses to go Pyro Merc, and they are only off the list now because Arsenal has been nerfed since 1.2. Other than that, that's everybody! Edited May 9, 2012 by Vid-szhite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinnedWill Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 That PT damage is not sustainable. Watch his bars and you can see that's a compilation of single target burst mostly, when 3-4 buffs are hit. That's a setup that can happen on one person every 2 minutes. Not at all different from other classes. Deception sin can set himself up for burst similar to that every 75 seconds. On top of that, some targets are around 12k-13k health, meaning not even wearing Recruit gear. And the pyro is ALWAYS in a pre-made, so it's also possible there are other damage boosts or debuffs present most of the time. Pyro burst is AMAZING... but it is NOT sustainable. Edit: On the other hand, look at focus/rage warriors/knights. They can do crits other classes can only dream about and can set that up a few times a minute. They don't even need to pop any cool downs to get crits higher than that pyro, but when they do their dps is INSANELY higher than what a pyro, operative or an assassin is capable of. I only call it sustainable due to the fact that Rail Shot (biggest hit, has 15s CD) gets reset by Flame Burst (spammable and deals ~2k crits without trinkets) - Rail Shot (without power relic/expertise adrenal) still tends to crit for 3.5-5.2k. Thus, the cycle can be used until overheated (and lets be honest, with all the slows/roots/stuns being applied in group combat, it's very easy to spam that cycle until death due to the skill tree). Yes, deception sins are nasty right now, but they really have more down-time to set up their burst damage assaults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurricaneXXIV Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Burst of a pyro is great, what is more impressive is how much damage you can do while kiting a melee. It's a fun spec to play. You are like a Mara or Sent but not in melee range unless you want to go in for a stock strike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinnedWill Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 Good for them. I've done that kind of damage (8-10k) with Ravage as Vengeance, no adrenal, and as a plus, I get to spam Ravage again in a few seconds because my rotation resets its cooldown, and then I get to blast them with a 5k Vicious Throw that automatically crits. Keep the Marauder QQ coming, it amuses me - the more time passes, the more it's starting to seem like everyone's damage is overpowered. Things I've heard QQs about post 1.2: Assassins Powertechs Juggernauts Marauders Sorcerers Operatives Snipers The only people I've missed are Mercenaries, and that's because the arsenal spec is utter, certifiable garbage in PvP, and everyone refuses to go Pyro Merc, and they are only off the list now because Arsenal has been nerfed since 1.2. Other than that, that's everybody! Agreed - TTK is FUBAR'd right now due to expertise's damage bonus having more significant impact on any class with skills that have high base damage values. Only hoping to show others that marauders really aren't the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinnedWill Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 Burst of a pyro is great, what is more impressive is how much damage you can do while kiting a melee. It's a fun spec to play. You are like a Mara or Sent but not in melee range unless you want to go in for a stock strike. Sniper is more like Mara/Sent than anything. Similar burst-style, easy to play, difficult to perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurricaneXXIV Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Sniper is more like Mara/Sent than anything. Similar burst-style, easy to play, difficult to perfect. I consider pyros the mid-range snipers. Good ones are rare because they don't play the mid range. Most tend to come to melee range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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