Blistrich Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Ever played a F2P game? They are pay to win. F2P saved DDO and LOTRO without it being "pay to win". Argument fails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temad Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Decline from when? Opening weekend? If so, that's really, really not a bad number. No, from their last quarterly report in early Feb. They lost 400K Subs in March and early April. They are down from 2.4 million total box sales to 1.3 million subscribers since launch. Not out of line percentage wise with games like Rift, Star Trek Online, and LOTR. On the other hand, being in line with those games isn't exactly a good thing if the trend continues which is almost certain without server transfers and LFG added before "summerish". The MMO business is cut throat and unforgiving. The longer you let big problems go, the more you permanently lose customer base and get the dreaded "word of mouth" kiss of death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawginole Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 If this game goes to a Free to Play model, I may possibly return to it and continue to play it as a 2nd game along side GW2. According to CNBC , this may not be a complete pipe dream..24% decline in subs that EA is admitting to at least is always a good sign Have a great day folks! Not a chance. FFXI lasted for 5 years at 400k dedicated players before peaking at 2 million in 2009. At just a million subs, BW can make up their initial investment in 2 years. For an MMO that is always a long term investment that is a huge success. Further investment will have to be made for development of expansions, infrastructure upgrades, salaries, etc in that time. But this game will be profitable within 3 years easily. Why would you go f2p and ruin that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaksith Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 The MMO business is cut throat and unforgiving. The longer you let big problems go, the more you permanently lose customer base and get the dreaded "word of mouth" kiss of death. In this thread, and all the other threads, I've yet to see anyone point out an MMO that is thriving in sales or customer reviews. Don't point out the 3x increase from LOTRO, one it's F2P and any F2P is a bad comparision, two, the 3x increase was one month after the initial switch, show me some recent data. Everyone's opinion has been subjective. If anything, we can assess subscription MMO games in general are on a decline due to failing economy and the lack of any dramatic change in the industry. It's still kill x,y,z with different artistic styles and backgrounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikelGoff Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 IMO, I already bought the game, paying a subscription to play it offends me. I never played WoW because of this. How does it offend you to pay for a service? That's what an MMO is, a service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blistrich Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 In this thread, and all the other threads, I've yet to see anyone point out an MMO that is thriving in sales or customer reviews. Everyone reading this thread... if you don't check out the following link, you're out of the loop... big time. Galactica Online hits 9.2 million users... There are many ways to interpret that data, but the simple fact is, conventional subscription MMOs are dying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfeisberg Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 if swtor becomes F2P i will quit.... You quit, 5 others would join because of it being Free to Play and will more then likely spend more then $15 a month between all of them together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xarec Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Free 2 Play is Pay 2 Enjoy, otherwise you're playing a truly watered down version of the game. The only F2P game I can stomach is LotRO, and that pay model seems to be the one model no one else uses. But It's sooooooooooooooo p2w as far as PvP goes lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfeisberg Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Ever played a F2P game? They are pay to win. I have, some are pay to win, the good ones are not though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalgearyoda Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 (edited) Sub retention from box sales is still above average for an MMO. Stop posting the truth. It just makes them less intelligent. (They are like gremlins and food past midnight) Edited May 8, 2012 by metalgearyoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfeisberg Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Decline from when? Opening weekend? If so, that's really, really not a bad number. From opening weekend, they have lost 1.1 million out of the 2.4 million sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalgearyoda Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 (edited) Everyone reading this thread... if you don't check out the following link, you're out of the loop... big time. Galactica Online hits 9.2 million users... There are many ways to interpret that data, but the simple fact is, conventional subscription MMOs are dying. Well... Duh. Sub based MMOs have been dying out for years. Casey Shriner called it like... 2 years ago. As to whether this goes FTP? I'll will take way more then a 400k drop to do that. Try 1m. Edited May 8, 2012 by metalgearyoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blistrich Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Well... Duh. Sub based MMOs have been dying out for years. Casey Shriner called it like... 2 years ago. Still, 2 million+ for a web mmo? C'est impressive, non? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thominoh Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Ever played a F2P game? They are pay to win. Aren't all games like that? You think monthly subs are free.. it's 15 a month to play to win, IF you have the time to GRIND..... I think what the issue is.. a F2P. might mean that ANYONE regardless of skill OR TIME spent grinding, can buy what they need.. So if Mr Casual wants top end game gear to OWN a mob or someone in PvP, he can buy what he needs, and not grind hours for it....... Welcome to LIFE.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalgearyoda Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Still, 2 million+ for a web mmo? C'est impressive, non? Eh. Idk, they have a very loose definition of "users". League of legends supposedly has 3.6m "users". They define "users" as people who have made accounts. Since its free to play its not like they have sub numbers or anything. I'd be interested to see their concurrent users. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temad Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 In this thread, and all the other threads, I've yet to see anyone point out an MMO that is thriving in sales or customer reviews. Don't point out the 3x increase from LOTRO, one it's F2P and any F2P is a bad comparision, two, the 3x increase was one month after the initial switch, show me some recent data. Everyone's opinion has been subjective. If anything, we can assess subscription MMO games in general are on a decline due to failing economy and the lack of any dramatic change in the industry. It's still kill x,y,z with different artistic styles and backgrounds. It has very little to do with the economy, we aren't talking caviar and champagne we are talking about 15 bucks a month. It most certainly has to do with shocking lack of new MMO design. The reason people are a bit more let down by SWTOR is that Bioware, a company that did some nice creative work over its history, was expected to break the mold. To their credit, the story cut scene content is new and different for MMOs. Unfortunately, it appears all that work on the story scenes cut deeply into the design of the rest of the game. It was released without key standard features for an MMO circa 2011/2012 and was shockingly copy/paste of some of the worst aspects of MMOs in general. The difference between other more recent MMOs that have fizzled and SWTOR was that it had two of the biggest names in the gaming industry, large financial backing, a super popular name brand in Star Wars and many years to develop. People rightfully expected a polished, modern product that offered a new direction in MMOs: They got a multiplayer version of KOTR 3 with the multiplayer part thrown in as an after thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfeisberg Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Cosmetic is a very strong word, considering that charging solely for cosmetic items is a huge gamble. If the customer can obtain the items in game already, they won't be as likely to buy. If you restrict the best stuff to the shop, then you are no better than F2P done wrong, who restrict the high value content behind a pricetag which has already been done by NCsoft already. I don't see Guild Wars 2 being truly "free", I just see another City of Heroes: Freedom. All the stuff you want that's already in the game requires a valid credit card. It's like buying Day One DLC every single day. At least with Pay 2 Play, they just give me the content, whether I want it or not. Considering they used the same model for Guild Wars 1 and have lots of experience in it, and saw the profits coming from it, just proves that a cash shop does not need to be a pay to win model to be successful. Nor do they need to put items in there to make the game not so annoying to play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benagain Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 I will not support a F2P game. If SWTOR goes F2P, then I'm out. As mentioned by many others, F2P actually means "Pay to win". I will not. I don't see this happening with the current state of things. Subs are down a bit since launch which is to be expected. The game seems to be doing fine to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celebrus Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 (edited) The wheel of time will stop spinning, the end of days will be nigh, and the rapture will be imminent. No seriously. If this game goes f2p I'll probably wake up and go to work the next day, but in a much more different way than how I woke up and went to work during days that I had paid for ToR. Big change for me if that happens. Big change. Edited May 8, 2012 by Celebrus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobomb-nik Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 (edited) Ever played a F2P game? They are pay to win. LOTRO does just fine, and is not "pay to win" at all. A big key is only offering things for sale that have no impact on actual gameplay. You sell things like exclusive clothing, armor, weapons (MODELS ONLY, no specific stats), mounts, races, customizations, etc. You still have an even playing field, and people that want to buy the niceties can do so. The only thing even close in LOTRO is the ability to buy items that grant boosted XP gain for a set amount of time. But in that regard, you still don't have an actual advantage against other people. This "pay to win" concept is outdated. Do some games operate that way? Sure. Does F2P automatically mean PaytoWin? Not at all. Edited May 8, 2012 by Bobomb-nik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlacke Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 SWTOR will never be F2P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celebrus Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 (edited) LOTRO does just fine, and is not "pay to win" at all. A big key is only offering things for sale that have no impact on actual gameplay. You sell things like exclusive clothing, armor, weapons (MODELS ONLY, no specific stats), mounts, races, customizations, etc. You still have an even playing field, and people that want to buy the niceties can do so. Yeah. That way the stingy folks can simply leech from the spendy habits of people with either full pockets or no willpower. Sounds good for the thrifty gamer. I'd rather pay my 15 bucks/month for a premium MMO, which I personally believe this one to be, but in the end, I really don't care. Edited May 8, 2012 by Celebrus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlacke Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 I'd rather pay my 15 bucks/month for a premium MMO, which I personally believe this one to be. Most definitely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfeisberg Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 SWTOR will never be F2P. You don't know that for sure, you don't know what EA may do in the future. As is, the Pay to Play model is slowly going away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parali Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 (edited) Greetings, We understand that many of our players enjoy talking about subscription models. That conversation is already in progress, so you may want to join the discussion here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=370289 You may also want to add your thoughts to these threads: Investor Call: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=447688Subscription Numbers: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=448029 We will be closing this thread now. Thank you for your feedback! Edited May 8, 2012 by Parali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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