This is the type of gaming I miss..

[Giondi]

EQ is F2P. Enjoy.

 

This. You don't see me buying Call of Duty and saying "Wow, another gun, let's see what it does. Oh, it shoots people. I wish the different weapons did different stuff and also you punch mythological creatures to death." People would tell me to go play God of War and they would be right. The game you want to play exists, go away.

[Skidrowbro]

This. You don't see me buying Call of Duty and saying "Wow, another gun, let's see what it does. Oh, it shoots people. I wish the different weapons did different stuff and also you punch mythological creatures to death." People would tell me to go play God of War and they would be right. The game you want to play exists, go away.

 

No one is asking for anything. You are confusing the "I want" threads with this one. Reading comprehension 101

[whatthefett]

Brings back memories. Now I am a robot. Brrrrzzzttt.

[AndasKastor]

You can never get the magic of your first MMO back. There were also some special circumstances involved. The following is in reference to EQ1

 

The character classes weren't balanced. There were some classes that could solo and one or two classes that couldn't. Some classes were not meant to solo, but people found a way to solo.

 

The classes were (relatively) unique. A necro did not cast a death spell that did the same as a druid fire spell, but just had a different name. The bard was one of the most unique classes ever. Good bards were invaluable - nothing makes you feel better than getting a /tell asking why the group is now struggling so much after you have left.

 

For the first few years at least there were not a bunch of spoiler sites.

 

Now:

 

Classes are homogenized. Few have unique abilities. Everyone has to have the same ability to tank/damage/heal as other classes designed for the same role. I assume that it is mainly from PvP complaints, but I could be wrong.

 

Everyone expects that the game will not start until level cap. For me the game will end at level cap. Once I have run the dailies once my wife and I will start alts. Once we get to 50 on the alts I assume that we will be on to the next game. She doesn't like the Imperial side and she will have seen at least one of each classes Republic stories by then. This is not a criticism, it is an observation.

 

Would I go back to EQ1 or EQ2 - no. That phase is over. I will continue to play games that I have fun at and leave (quietly) when they are no longer fun.

 

This thread brought back some memories (good and bad ).

[Arkerus]

What other games? Most have changed their design to appease this new game console generation because that is the HUGE cash cow in the market.. psst.. any game design can change, Everquest did .. sadly..

 

I never meant age in that fashion. Stop taking things the wrong way.

The open areas of Hoth and Tatooine are there for a reason. They use 90% of the terrain.

 

Anyway....

[TheREALKyias]

Couldn't leave it at 'agree to disagree' huh? had to toss in 'carebear', as if my prefered playstyle is lesser somehow. That's fine.

 

I know games will be catering to me long after your 'high risk-moderate reward, elitist snob fest, second-job, "games" are long gone.

 

But, hey, just differences of opinion. BTW, you may want to google something called "project 1999". All your prayers are answered.

 

 

There is a difference, after the OP plays his/her game OP's brain size will maintain its current state.

 

Your game type will make your brain reduce to the size of a walnut.

 

Why you might ask? That is an excellent question and the answer is simple! One game makes you think, interact and be curious about the game world around you and your version makes you want to get to your happy place as FAST as possible.

[Mashy]

Agreed. I couldn't say it any better really. I miss the good old days where the entire game was just wide open and you made your own way through it.

 

^^ This and what the OP said. MMO's are so far off track it isn't funny.

[Finis]

Nostalgia is fine. I enjoy being nostalgic now and then.

 

"Be careful whose advice you buy, but be patient with those who supply it. Advice is a form of nostalgia. Dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it's worth. " (From the "Wear Sunscreen Speech")

 

That seems to me to be what people from "Camp #1" are doing. Picking the past up, painting over the ugly bits, and presenting it as more than it's worth.

 

Sure EQ1 was fun - for it's day. So were MUDs, the things EQ copied from. Everquest's core mechanics were taken whole cloth from DikuMUD code. It even had some of the same error messages. Which is fine. I loved MUDs. I ran up huge bills back in the mid 90's when CompuSERVE and Delphi still charged for internet access by the hour. Good times. And so was EQ, good times. Back then. Do I have fond memories of it? Sure, even some of the bad ones make me laugh now. Time and distance does that for all things. You gloss over the bad, and remember only the good. We're human, that's how we work.

 

But would I want to play that way again now? Hell no. Does that make me a carebear? Uhm, no? I PvP all the time. I've put in enough hours to make War hero if only i could stick to a single toon. (but alas, I am too much of an alt-whore). Carebear = not PvPer in my understanding of the term. But I think you mean it to mean "doesn't like things to be too hard." Which is also not the case. I like hard encounters. I like figuring out how to do hardmode stuff. And unlike an encounter in EQ, you can't just add more people to a tough encounter in this game. You have to figure out a better way of doing things, or get better gear, or probably both.

 

Or maybe you mean that I don't like exposing myself to the chance of other players deliberately spoiling my fun. If that's the case, then I'll agree that I don't like that. I don't think the virtual equivalent of being dumpstered, 'enhances' the 'good times'. I have plenty of good times without being forced by game mechanics to deal with jackholes. Defeated a tough boss is just as rewarding in an instance as it is in the open world. I don't need the added 'fun' of three or four *********s getting off on ruining twenty people's evening by abusing game mechanics while we're fighting the boss.

 

You seem to be under the impression that having a detailed, linear story 'takes away' from the leveling experience. I disagree with your premise. I think having Eight highly detailed, rich class quests gives infinity more replayability than siting at the same camps your previous characters sat at, doing the exact same things. EQ was merely about the math. XP per hour. anything beyond that was something you the player sought out with other players. And that is something not dependent on the game, that's on you.

 

You think there is nothing to explore in the 'theme park' zones. I disagree; and the presence of holocrons, codex lore items, and the like would seem to agree with me. I don't remember EQ having rewards for exploring a zone. Best case scenario, you found a new camp to sit at for a few hours. Worst case, you lost your corpse in an unknown spot and spent the next few hours looking, or paid off a necro to summon it.

 

You seem to think that going afk in a zone and getting killed because someone brought a huge giant over to you adds to the fun; risk factor. I guess you've never had to go afk because a child or pet threw up on the floor, and came back to find a corpse and the last 4 hours of xp work undone. That's not fun, that's adding insult to injury.

 

You seem to think that Quality of Life enhancements detract from the game, and once again I have to disagree. I think quality of life features are just that; they improve the quality of my game life. I've made the run to the shuttle port once already, now I've unlocked the flight point, I don't need to make the run EVERY time now. Once is enough for me to experience the thrill of exploration. Everything else is just a time sink.

 

TL;DR. I like horse back riding too. but when making a road trip to Powell's books in Portland. I like doing it in a couple of hours, with my iPod hooked into the car stereo and the AC on. I don't need to take a week long horse back ride through the wilderness, with no electricity or indoor plumping to enjoy the journey. And frankly, I just don't have the time for it either. I'll keep my car. You can keep your horse.

[Michaelo_Denwar]

Maybe this has already been said, but wouldn't it be awesome if they had a starwars, mmo, version of Skyrim?

Where skill made a difference, you could block and shoot and had to actually aim to hit things, not just lock and hit some skills till they die? I'm just waiting for something of that sort to come out.

[Finis]

There is a difference, after the OP plays his/her game OP's brain size will maintain its current state.

 

Your game type will make your brain reduce to the size of a walnut.

 

Why you might ask? That is an excellent question and the answer is simple! One game makes you think, interact and be curious about the game world around you and your version makes you want to get to your happy place as FAST as possible.

 

Wow, are you so far off track I don't even know where to begin.

 

But I guess if you can't understand my point, calling me stupid is the way to deflect.

[Cerion]

In my continuing effort to provide you all the happiness you deserve, let me suggest Vanguard then. Oldskool feel, with newer, modern, quality of life elements. Did I mention it's f2p now? Edited May 9, 2012 by Cerion

[Finis]

I find this demotivational to be relevant to this thread.

 

http://verydemotivational.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/demotivational-posters-misfortune.jpg

 

 

50% of my EQ time felt like being the guy standing in on the sidewalk.

Edited May 9, 2012 by Finis

[Cerion]

I find this demotivational to be relevant to this thread.

 

http://verydemotivational.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/demotivational-posters-misfortune.jpg

 

 

50% of my EQ time felt like being the guy standing in on the sidewalk.

 

haha...that reminded me of the last time I grouped in EQ. Tanking/pulling as a paladin in The Dreadlands. I'd bring the lone mob back to the group consisting of an enchanter, a wizard and some others I don't recall (probably a cleric). The enchanter would occasional cast buffs, but usually just sat there, while the wizard would sit there and do his nova when the mob hp was at 1/4. It was my last group, and I remember it vividly, because I realized I was doing all the freaking work...running around pulling, holding agro, bashing...I realized this was the way it was with pretty much every group I had experienced.

 

From then on, I just solo'd.

Edited May 9, 2012 by Cerion

[MaverickXIV]

Oldskool feel, with newer, modern, quality of life elements. Did I mention it's f2p now?

But the point is that, to a lot of people, those quality of life elements bar a game from being "old school." Old school games didn't have quality of life, they just had soul sucking "features" that were fun when compared to no other alternatives.

[thominoh]

Wow, are you so far off track I don't even know where to begin.

 

But I guess if you can't understand my point, calling me stupid is the way to deflect.

 

Well .. isn't that interesting.. Isn't it you that started calling others out because YOU don't like their play style or gaming.. YOU arguing to me about my likes and dislikes about PvE play style is like arguing to a PvP fan that only PvE is real gaming and PvP sucks....... THEY can both co exist if the devs allow it.. Get the point yet?

[Finis]

Well .. isn't that interesting.. Isn't it you that started calling others out because YOU don't like their play style or gaming.. YOU arguing to me about my likes and dislikes about PvE play style is like arguing to a PvP fan that only PvE is real gaming and PvP sucks....... THEY can both co exist if the devs allow it.. Get the point yet?

 

There is a difference, between arguing opinion vs opinion, and disagreeing with someone's opinion and resorting to insults. I may disagree with your (and those who share your opinion) but I didn't resort to insults. I was responding to a post that said the way I like to game makes my brain smaller; so yeah, I was insulted.

 

I never said anyone was wrong. I never said anyone was stupid for liking one or the other. Calling someone out on their opinion is not the same as calling them stupid for their opinion.

 

You started this discussion on an open public forum, don't be shocked when people disagree with you.

 

And as I pointed out in my original response, and subsequent ones. Your apparent preferred style of gaming is freely available whenever you chose to avail yourself of it. If you chose to ignore the quest lines, you may do so. There are mobs. Go grind them. Find some friends who wish to do the same and hit a heroic area. Plenty of world bosses out there for you to have open world raids against if that's what you want.

 

Get my point yet?

Edited May 9, 2012 by Finis

[Vonb]

So you were a bad player and had social problems with others.. No reason to blame the game.. What I did like about EQ1, was the way we policed our own.. If you were not a team player, welcome to blackball list.. I sense you would know that first hand based on your tone here .. You might want to stay with solo carebear games.. Sorry

 

Not to say this is the right way to answer his post, but that's what I miss about EQ: a real sense of community. The need to have a good rep on your server, because it was the key to being successfull... helping others so you would get help when you need it. Yes EQ1 sucked in many ways, too much time wasted on many things... but it did have a community and made people get together to achieve stuff. The community was at the server level, not just your 8 man run ether. No other game came close, except DAOC in a very different way as it was RVR.

 

 

Now it's all about 'I can do it all myself!' everyone is a superhero... "oh you killed this lvl 1 Bandit byt spamming a skill three times, you are a true Hero!'

Your story.. is not your story, its a predefined path from which you can not escape longer than a couple of lines in the dialog.

The game is so easy from level 1 to 50 it's only funny the first time, then less so afterwards just like most single player games. 90% of the current gameplay in TOR is single player... and does not justify a monthly fee.

 

Bring back the community, the cooperation, the challenge and the adventure.

[Jedipwnsauce]

Instancing and removing death penaltys killed the MMO genre.

[Skidrowbro]

Instancing and removing death penaltys killed the MMO genre.

 

Someone give this man a Hero cookie

[Finis]

Not to say this is the right way to answer his post, but that's what I miss about EQ: a real sense of community. The need to have a good rep on your server, because it was the key to being successfull... helping others so you would get help when you need it. Yes EQ1 sucked in many ways, too much time wasted on many things... but it did have a community and made people get together to achieve stuff. The community was at the server level, not just your 8 man run ether. No other game came close, except DAOC in a very different way as it was RVR.

 

 

Now it's all about 'I can do it all myself!' everyone is a superhero... "oh you killed this lvl 1 Bandit byt spamming a skill three times, you are a true Hero!'

Your story.. is not your story, its a predefined path from which you can not escape longer than a couple of lines in the dialog.

The game is so easy from level 1 to 50 it's only funny the first time, then less so afterwards just like most single player games. 90% of the current gameplay in TOR is single player... and does not justify a monthly fee.

 

Bring back the community, the cooperation, the challenge and the adventure.

 

I get what you are saying. And I'll grant you the game is easy to solo. But I disagree on the lack of community.

 

First off, even in the Hay-day of Everquest, the only community you had was one the players made for themselves. The game or devs did nothing to encourage or discourage it. Just being a player in EQ did not guarantee you access to the community. If you were introverted and didn't talk or socialize, you could still progress in the game by playing the right class, and no one would ever know you existed. I had a druid who's sole purpose was for me to solo when I was feeling anti-social. Got to 55. Never grouped. I also had a bard, who was 65, and grouped all the time. You had to activally participate in the community to even notice it was there. Using outside game resources. There were no 'Official' EQ forums, not at first anyway. You had to go to other, fan crated, sites to participate, or belong to the right channels (once they added channels) to be a part of this 'grand Community'. And even then, most servers, and I'll be yours was no different, were basically the same few dozen people. Organizing, chatting, putting the alliances together. Few dozen. Maybe even as high as 50 people on a high pop server. They were the ones organizing everything. Everyone else went along for the ride. Sure maybe there were a couple hundred people total in your alliance, but most of those people came and went unnoticed. Every server had a core group of community leaders that held everything together.

 

Players. Not Devs. Not game mechanics. Players.

 

Flash forward to now. SWTOR, WoW, maybe the next great one, ESO or something. They all have (or will have) great communities. But you have to know to look. You have to go out and participate. Being on the server doesn't guarantee you access. Most of them are using unofficial resources to organize and stay in touch. Fan sites, facebook pages, twitter, in-game chat channels. Just like old times.

 

Players. Not Devs. Not game mechanics. Players.

 

Players drive the community, and if the community sucks, it's not on the devs. It's on the players. If you don't think your server has a community, go out and look. Get involved and build one worth having. Keep your blackball lists if you think those make such community builders (they don't). Make a chat channel for guild alliances and flash point LFGs. Make sure other people know about it. You'll find the community is there.

 

Regarding 'Your story is a predefined path from which you can not escape longer than a couple of lines in the dialog.". How is any other video game any different? Either you're a grain of sand in a sand box, and the only impact you have on the game is the impact on the community (see above), and not the game itself. Or there is plot that you can follow, and while it feels immersive to you while you are in it, you know it's not unique to you, because everyone else is doing the game thing. At least the later offers you the illusion of impacting the game (See the end of any Class's story line). big sand box games offer you no chance to impact the game world. Just the community. (Which again, is on the players, not the devs.)

 

Video games are lines of code executed by machines. You're never goign to get a personal story unless you have a personal coder. At which point, go grab a case of beer, a few bags of chips, some dice, and some pencils and paper and invite some friends over for DnD night, because that's what you are really looking for. Skip the video games.

[Arkerus]

Instancing and removing death penaltys killed the MMO genre.

 

Because death penalties made sense how?

 

Every game has instances. Every single one of them. It just depends on where and how they are implemented.

[Finis]

Instancing and removing death penaltys killed the MMO genre.

 

Yeah. WoW looks dead to me. Man, I can't believe how it's instancing and lack of death penalties killed the MMO genre.

 

Don't look now, I think there's some stupid kids getting on your lawn.

[Jaxarale]

I pay a sub and can post my thoughts and opinions in any thread I feel like it.

 

Why did I get the image of my 5 yea old nephew crossing his arms, poking out his lip, and stomping his feet while trying his hardest to push out a crocodile tear when I read this...

 

Gotta love the new gen MMOers....

[Vonb]

Players. Not Devs. Not game mechanics. Players.

 

Flash forward to now. SWTOR, WoW, maybe the next great one, ESO or something. They all have (or will have) great communities. But you have to know to look. You have to go out and participate. Being on the server doesn't guarantee you access. Most of them are using unofficial resources to organize and stay in touch. Fan sites, facebook pages, twitter, in-game chat channels. Just like old times.

 

Players. Not Devs. Not game mechanics. Players.

 

Players drive the community, and if the community sucks, it's not on the devs. It's on the players. If you don't think your server has a community, go out and look. Get involved and build one worth having. Keep your blackball lists if you think those make such community builders (they don't). Make a chat channel for guild alliances and flash point LFGs. Make sure other people know about it. You'll find the community is there.

big sand box games offer you no chance to impact the game world. Just the community. (Which again, is on the players, not the devs.)

.

 

The game mechanics are what give people a reason to get together, be it for combat or crafting. Or even talk to each other.

 

In SWTOR levelling people are mostly involved in solo quests or cut scenes with voice over, therefore not even available to participate in the community.

 

At level 50, they will run dailies with the occasional heroic, again most of the time on their own (the Black Hole H4 being the exception) while waiting for their guild's ops. Hard Modes are difficult to find because kind of pointless when you can gear up faster and easier running ops, so most people don't bother, and will play an alt once their dailies are done... back to 'levelling' gameplay...

 

I understand what you are saying, but this game is so compartimented that it does a lot to discourage a sense of community, the game, not the players.

 

Nos imagine you change the mix with:

- Real World RVR, with a real impact on the world, and rewards accordingly

- Public high level heroic / raid areas that require cooperation to achieve

- at a smaller level, scalable events that will give an incentive for grouping instead of soloing

 

I won't even mention Crafting as it's an all 'do it all yourself' affair.

 

And yes even in a sandbox game you will have a limited impact on the gameworld, but you will have 'some' impact which is better than none at all like now. And the impact you have on the community is reward enough.

Remember the best armorsmith on the server in SWG? everyone knew him!

Remember the friendly necro/cleric/rogue/monk who would come and bail you out in EQ1? everyone knew him!

etc etc...

[Lt_Latency]

Yuck EQ was bad.

 

Ok guys we are going to sit in this spot for 12 hours and keep killing these enemies one at a time as they respawn until one of us pass out. The only challenge that might happen during that time is needing to break the camp and the start to get the respawn cycle spaced out. BORING!!!

Edited May 9, 2012 by Lt_Latency