Subs down 25%

[Astarica]

MMORPG players are pretty much the only guys I know of that wanted to be ripoffed and thank the company for doing so.

 

WoW makes $1 billion/year and Blizzard announces the maintenance cost is on the order of $50M/year.

 

That means WoW could charge $1/month and still be hugely profitable.

 

Likewise SWTOR losing 25% or whatever population, it's still hugely profitable. It might not be enough to cover for other games in EA flopping or the CEO's private 10 yachts anymore, but the game itself is still going to be quite fine in terms of bottom lines. So no need to cry about doom and gloom. Even absolute failures of MMORPGs like FF14 are still running, and companies don't run MMORPGs to lose money.

 

By the way WoW seem to have lost around that range too between what they quote for numbers now (over 10 million) compared to peak. That means instead of getting $1 billion/year they might be down to $600M an year. I'm sure Blizzard is worried. Well, they could be worried if it's expected to pay for every other game's development cost under the ActivisionBlizzard label, but that's a different issue.

[Andryah]

If I remember well Rift budget is around $60 millions so TOR budget is over 3 times RIFT one.

 

Apart the lack of a well know IP behind it, there's also another difference: RIFT launched from a totally unknown studio while TOR capitalized also on BioWare fame.

 

Considering all the above and how polished RIFT was at launch and how unevenly polished was TOR... well you get the picture.

 

Development budget has NOTHING to do with post launch production (ie: ongoing patching), operations, etc.

 

Development budget is about how deep your pockets are and how much risk you want to take. You budget the R&D investment, you accure the sunk costs as capital to be depreciated later on. Not a single dollar of R&D is ever tied to a product as production cost. It's a sunk capital investment cost.

 

Hence, comparing development costs between different MMOs is a meaningless exercise, other then to demonstrate that EA has much deeper pockets then Trion. Heck, EA is going to invest $60 Million this year just in gen4 console technology which is prepatory investment for future game development for next gen consoles.

[RicoFrost]

Considering all the above and how polished RIFT was at launch and how unevenly polished was TOR... well you get the picture.

 

I would not agree with you there, when i played RIFT its ui seem rather laggy and slow, and the graphics where not at all impressive. After about 30 minutes i couldn't stand it anymore.

Edited May 9, 2012 by RicoFrost

[Andryah]

Why are you trying so hard to white knight right now?

 

Wishful thinking on transfers 6-8 weeks from now. Just like Ranked warzones would be in 1.2 after 3 months of development, right?

 

Objectivity is not being a white knight.

 

I am simply reading the posts here and responding to some of them. You can always put me on ignore if my perspecitve offends you.

Edited May 9, 2012 by Andryah

[CrunkShizzle]

what? now you are trying to say only 2 servers have a decent population while also claiming that every other mmo has full servers???

 

i dont know,but im sure every other mmo that would add server transfers would also have those people moving around to every server.not to making every server but the high population ones ghost towns

 

but whatever,i told myself when gw2 came out id play both sw tor and gw2.but im thinking more lately about just giving up and playing gw2,no point in sticking with an mmo that obviously doesnt have a very bright future ahead of it

Edited May 9, 2012 by CrunkShizzle

[BJWyler]

So you are saying that it's acceptable for a company to completely change a class without any testing whatsoever and anyone who doesn't like it shouldn't play the games in the first place? Do you realize that every game would be limited to a couple hundred thousand noobs who only enjoy masochism or are too inexperienced to realize any difference?

 

Class and game design changes are one of the main reasons many people stop playing MMOs. Why play something that is no longer fun? Perhaps MMOs are the perfect type of game for me but one that uses common sense and proper testing before implementing changes!

 

They did test - for several weeks on the PTS. Perhaps you should have been there. And yes, Developers have every right to change the classes they create in their game if certain classes end up having an unfair advantage (i.e. are overpowered) in the game - and it continues to happen to this day in those games, years after their launch. Happened in every MMO I played. Know what players said in those forums to the whiners - LRN2PLAY. If you need an overpowered class in order to compete in this game, then yeah, SWTOR probably was not the game you should have been playing. The class balance is better now, but there is still a long way to go, but at least every class continues to be viable in this game, with a little bit of practice and play time.

 

BJ

Edited May 9, 2012 by BJWyler

[jarjarloves]

i dont know,but im sure every other mmo that would add server transfers would also have those people moving around to every server.not to making every server but the high population ones ghost towns

 

but whatever,i told myself when gw2 came out id play both sw tor and gw2.but im thinking more lately about just giving up and playing gw2,no point in sticking with an mmo that obviously doesnt have a very bright future ahead of it.not to mention i guess bioware has never heard of the phrase "you cant polish a turd"cuz sw tor is pretty much one of the examples of trying to polish a turd

 

WoW didn't add server transfers until Burning Crusade.

 

BTW Normal servers are NOT ghost towns. The Light ones defently are ghost towns but there are only a few of them. Which is why they are adding server transfers.

[JeramieCrowe]

Please, , it's not a question of 'finger on the pulse etc' , most companies have 3-5 year projections, No company points back to a 4 year old projection because by definition you have a more current one.

 

You talk about reading the whole thing, well if you can't see the general,downplay of SWTOR in the overall presentation you must be blind.

 

I *can* see it. But it's not because they're trying to hide some truth. It's because they're not worried about TOR's income. Otherwise they would NOT have said that it's "very profitable".

[Frostvein]

"The subs aren't dropping"

 

"Err, no MMO retains 100% of their initial box sales...the subs are dropping and the stupid amount of light and underpopulated servers show this"

 

"Nut uh"

 

*subs drop*

 

"The subs dropping always happens, Lolz"

[Killgroth]

So earlier today I was reading articles and reviews of TOR and it seems to be very surprising that out of the 1.7 million subscribers the game originally had upon release 400k of them have jumped shipped. The most common responses I have gotten is that it lacks the true Star Wars feel, and the content people expect is just not there. I am going to post a brief discussion between myself and another player about the game and would like to get some input on what you all think about this. It's a little on the longer side but I believe it has some very valid points...

 

Sadly enough you're losing your players because you have failed to deliver on this MMORPG successfully. Free trials and item give aways will not keep the fan base. You gave a very linear story with the Star Wars franchise tag which is fine, but some serious revamping of the game needs to be done or this game will fall undoubtedly to a free to play and then closure in due time. You have already lost 400k fans and counting because you failed to deliver the ground breaking MMO that was promised. This game deeply saddens many fans of the franchise and many MMORPG players because this game needs improvement in not allthe but a majority of its areas. Sadly enough when my game cards I have bought when I first bought the game expire, I will leave the universe alongside many others unless there are going to be promises of changes.

 

5 hours ago ·

 

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John Kolb 1. EA nor Bioware read complaints on this page. You are using the wrong forum

 

2. The remaining 1.3 million subscribers and the many that will follow upon release to 38 more countries will not miss you nor your unfounded complaints. I think the majority are happy with the game as is and recognize it's long term potential.

 

3. Any game his ambitious will need some tweaks along the way as did WoW and every other MMO to hit the market. I have yet to see an MMO release as a finished product. 4 hours ago · Like

 

John Kolb this ambitious* 4 hours ago · Like

 

Johnny Gonzalez It's better than WoW 4 hours ago · Like · 3

 

Dennis Hall lol they arnt happy, they are just waiting for D3 and GW2 4 hours ago · Like

 

Leigh Groves This game has delivered more in it's first five months than others have in years. The unfortunate thing is the "me, me, me, I want/expect it now, now, now" mentality of so many players. Yes there are bugs. Yes there are some minor issues (These vary, depending on who you ask). If people don't have the understanding that these things can't be done with a push of a button & don't want to watch the game continue to grow: Those of us that are still playing, don't need you. Bye-bye. 4 hours ago · Like · 1

 

Adam Kempf @Leigh I think we should both give up, people are entirely too stupid to listen to logic... 4 hours ago · Like · 2

 

Phill Hardy 1. You're absolutely correct.

 

2. I'm not worried about anyone missing me smart guy. And I'm fully aware of their release plans, but thanks though on trying to shed light on nothing beneficial. The main reason I put this up here is to not attract you but just a small bit of attention to the increased problem they are facing now with declined sales an and ever slimming fan base. Which in turn is hurting their marketing value and possibly future money which could be spent making this game into a ground breaking MMORPG. The game had plenty of potential and is very fun, but after a certain point it loses its replay value which again in turn cuts back on marketing and gaining new players. To have 1.7 million subscribers to this game and lose 400k in the few months after release is a big statement by the people. If you haven't realized by now many games that start out like this tend to have a very short life. Not to mention when articles are written about this game and focusing heavily on the majority of negative aspects it tends to have negative impact on the future of the game. I fully understand that there will be a waiting period between major updates and content changes since it is a new MMORPG but what I am saying is if they do not proceed down the right path or do too little for players who expect and want more there will be the inevitable fate of the game possibly shutting down.

 

3. There will never be a prefect game from release or a finished product, which is understandable. I am simply saying this is not the first Star Wars MMORPG and they can learn alot about what can make it a successful franchise if they take the good aspects from the past ones and implement it into this one. 4 hours ago · Like

 

John Kolb Let me clarify... "They have a great game from release and have only improved it with more new content and fizes than any other MMO that has been released" (More content and fixes in the 5 months that the game has been out in comparison to the amount of content released for other MMO's in the same amount of time from release) 4 hours ago · Like

 

Phill Hardy You're right and I'm not saying it hasn't. But to be fair they also have a very linear game and story line, which makes it a little more easy to do so then the open world MMOs. So really in essence it wouldn't be as fair to compare the content released lately to other games. 3 hours ago · Like

 

John Kolb I've heard this multiple times and I don't get it. I wish someone would explain "linear storyline" to me. There are 8 different stories, one for each class in which you can make decisions which can affect the outcome to some extent. Is there an MMO that's doing this way better and no one told me? And doing it better while having a fun and competitive PvP? IDK, I've played Warhammer and WoW before this. WoW made me want to take a bath with a toaster it was so boring and Warhammer I actually thought was pretty good and SWTOR could really use some ideas from the open world PvP to improve the game but in the end.... I haven't seen anything "linear" about SWTOR. 3 hours ago · Like

 

Phill Hardy Linear is pretty much saying its not as open of world. There's only one set way to go, and yes you can make choices but in the end those choices dont effect your game or anyone else's really. Think double dragons on Nintendo, that was a side scrolling linear game. One set way to go but without options. If they were true to the franchise they could keep the quest all class specific and what they have now but more free roam and more expansive. There are boundaries in the game that make it "one set path" compared to the others that are out there. 2 hours ago · Like

 

John Kolb I don't have enough MMO experience to properly compare to others but as far as the mission/quest grind. I was very happy with how entertaining it was in comparison to WoW and Warhammer. But agian... those are the only 2 other MMO's I've invested ANY time into. 2 hours ago · Like

 

Phill Hardy The grind in the game was very unique and refreshing, but I along with other people think there needs to be more of a open world/sandbox aspect of the game to really explore the world and stay true to the Star Wars franchise. If they were to do that then they could actually provide more for players to look forward to for example, player housing and guild community's, actual space combat and customization of ships not just the one set ship per class, more unique mounts and class specific perks or travel modes. They could've bring back the pet trainer class to the game so you can tame and create your own mounts in the game for more diversity. PvP zones or even PvP worlds with quests to influence how the economy and world security operates. Cybernetics for a real Star Wars feel.

 

Like I was trying to state in the beginning this feels more of a basic MMO with just a Star Wars tag then what you would expect from an actual game set in the Star Wars universe/galaxy, which from that is why most people and myself are a little torn and don't see the reason to stick around if there are the other MMOs doing it better regardless of how long they've been out. I've played WoW, EQ, EQ2, Age Of Conan just to name a few and it feels like all of them not actual Star Wars. I've also played Star Wars Galaxies before the major updates and that by far felt like you were living seeing exploring and playing in the real Star Wars. If they took the good from that and put it into this game, I believe they would have their very own undeniable ground breaking award winning MMORPG that so many are/were looking for and the fan and franchise retention would be 100 fold better then what it is succumbing to as of right now

[CrunkShizzle]

WoW didn't add server transfers until Burning Crusade.

 

BTW Normal servers are NOT ghost towns. The Light ones defently are ghost towns but there are only a few of them. Which is why they are adding server transfers.

 

normal servers? the last time i looked at the server list,i didnt really see any servers that had a status of normal

 

but whatever,you keep drinking your kool aide and thinking that server transfers are going to do anything but clog up the already overcrowded servers in this game.they arent really going to solve the server population problem

[Andryah]

BTW Normal servers are NOT ghost towns.

 

I agree.

 

The Light ones defently are ghost towns but there are only a few of them.

 

Actually about 30% of them are LIGHT perpetually and are suffering. It looks like about half of those are truly ghost towns. So that means 30-40 servers total between NA/EU are in ghost town status.

 

The more intersting data point though is that most of the ghost town servers are PvP servers. Which is further evidence that the PvP crowd hate the game and are looking for their next PvP salvation game.

[JeramieCrowe]

If I remember well Rift budget is around $60 millions so TOR budget is over 3 times RIFT one.

 

Which is a moot point since, according to the whole document, particularly page 7, EA is not worried about making they're money back AND profiting.

[Andryah]

normal servers? the last time i looked at the server list,i didnt really see any servers that had a status of normal

 

but whatever,you keep drinking your kool aide and thinking that server transfers are going to do anything but clog up the already overcrowded servers in this game.they arent really going to solve the server population problem

 

He meant to say STANDARD. And you know it.

 

And during prime time (server time) the majority of servers are STANDARD. You also know this, it's just that the hyperble is strong in you I guess.

 

Server transfers will not clog overcrowded servers because they won't let you transfer to them.

[CrunkShizzle]

but there are only a few of them.

 

so i guess my eyes just felt like making 95 percent of servers say light the last time i logged in then? when i can scroll down and see like 5 servers out of how many say normal or heavy.id say the rest of those servers are a tad bit more then "a few"

[jarjarloves]

normal servers? the last time i looked at the server list,i didnt really see any servers that had a status of normal

 

but whatever,you keep drinking your kool aide and thinking that server transfers are going to do anything but clog up the already overcrowded servers in this game.they arent really going to solve the server population problem

 

this is a joke right? you know how to log in and look at the servers right? more then half of them are Standard or above and it's not even prime time on the West coast yet. Usually there are less then 30 light servers during prime time out of a 110+ servers thats pretty good.

[CrunkShizzle]

Server transfers will not clog overcrowded servers because they won't let you transfer to them.

 

and then no one will transfer,why would someone want to transfer there characters to a dead server

 

it just shows how little bioware knows about there games community

[JeramieCrowe]

I would not agree with you there, when i played RIFT its ui seem rather laggy and slow, and the graphics where not at all impressive. After about 30 minutes i couldn't stand it anymore.

 

Yep, people have rose-colored glasses on when it comes to Rift at launch. But here's the truth:

 

Let's see, RIFT launched:

 

Without a customizable UI

Without an LFG tool

Without open-world PvP (PvP rifts were almost 8 months later)

Without server transfers

Without an endgame, only one raid (Tor launched with 2)

With only one storyline for all classes

With 6 hour queues

 

The first major patch in RIFT had only one raid that became available April 16th, 47 days after launch. It had a plethora of attempted class balance nerfs that broke more than it balanced, and was only about half the size of TOR's first major patch. 47 days after launch to get 2 raids, the number of raids TOR launched with. And they were easy, cleared by guilds in no time.

 

In contrast, TOR's first major patch was January 17th, 28 days after launch, almost half the time of RIFT, and included a new Flashpoint, doubled the size of an Op (effectively a new raid zone), and fixed more bugs right the first time than Rift ever wish they did.

 

The next major patch in RIFT brought the LFG tool and wardrobe slots on May 10th. It offered NO NEW CONTENT. The next patch to offer new content wasn't until Hammerknell on July 27th, 149 days after launch.

 

In contrast, TOR's next major patch brought another Warzone, another Operation, Legacy, new dailies and gear on Corellia, balance passes that fixed more than it broke on April 12th, 114 days after launch. TOR had more endgame content faster than RIFT did.

 

So far, TOR's doing better.

[Andryah]

so i guess my eyes just felt like making 95 percent of servers say light the last time i logged in then? when i can scroll down and see like 5 servers out of how many say normal or heavy.id say the rest of those servers are a tad bit more then "a few"

 

Stop logging in at 3 AM local play time.

[Theology]

Which is a moot point since, according to the whole document, particularly page 7, EA is not worried about making they're money back AND profiting.

 

You're right. EA just wants to put out a good quality game for everyone to enjoy. They realized that money isn't everything and there should be a good, quality game out there for people to play, even if it loses them money.

 

GET REAL BRO, ARE YOU DELUSIONAL?

Edited May 9, 2012 by Theology

[CrunkShizzle]

this is a joke right? you know how to log in and look at the servers right? more then half of them are Standard or above and it's not even prime time on the West coast yet. Usually there are less then 30 light servers during prime time out of a 110+ servers thats pretty good.

 

yeah,i looked at them like a half hour ago

 

pretty much 90 percent of them if not more said light,a few said standard.and one said heavy

[CrunkShizzle]

Stop logging in at 3 AM local play time.

 

3 am?

 

i didnt know 7 pm eastern time was 3 am.my clock must be lieing to me today

[JeramieCrowe]

You're right. EA just wants to put oput a good quality game for everyone to enjoy. They realized that money isn't everything and there should be a good, quality game out there for people to play, even if it loses them money.

 

GET REAL BRO, ARE YOU DELUSIONAL?

 

Read the damned report, then get back with me. Why do people post without educating themselves on the subject first?

 

They're not worried because they ARE not only making they money back, but TOR is "very profitable". EA's words, not mine.

Edited May 9, 2012 by JeramieCrowe

[Theology]

read the damned report, then get back with me. Why do people post without educating themselves on the subject first?

 

get real bro, are you delusional?!

[JeramieCrowe]

get real bro, are you delusional?!

 

What are you, two?

 

They're not worried because they ARE not only making they're money back, but TOR is "very profitable". EA's words, not mine.

Edited May 9, 2012 by JeramieCrowe