Subs down 25%

[mikegr]

You assume that the changes they make are ones that you want, not ones they feel is best.

 

They're not, never have been, never will be. I've heard all of these arguments before, usually from the "Its my $15 a month wahhhh i want my way" crowd

 

Like the old saying goes "the customer is always right". Well, here I am, the customer, still waiting for an explaination! So far, all I have received is "if you don't like it, then leave": Hardly a model for superior customer service!

 

They have a responsiblity to their customers and their investors to make informed decisions based on facts and testing, not based on "a best guess" senario or what I can best describe as inexperience and indifference. Like any business, this will insure their customers and investors are both happy. Mess up this simple rule and they are sure to lose both to the competition.

 

It's obvious that some people were very happy with the changes, only because they thought the changes were of huge benefit to them. Now it seems that even though their classes had been made all powerful, they have nobody left to play with! In that, we have the downfall of just about every MMO ever made!

[WrentheFaceless]

Like the old saying goes "the customer is always right". Well, here I am, the customer, still waiting for an explaination! So far, all I have received is "if you don't like it, then leave": Hardly a model for superior customer service!

 

They have a responsiblity to their customers and their investors to make informed decisions based on facts and testing, not based on "a best guess" senario or what I can best describe as inexperience and indifference. Like any business, this will insure their customers and investors are both happy. Mess up this simple rule and they are sure to lose both to the competition.

 

It's obvious that some people were very happy with the changes, only because they thought the changes were of huge benefit to them. Now it seems that even though their classes had been made all powerful, they have nobody left to play with! In that, we have the downfall of just about every MMO ever made!

 

The saying is more like "Make the customer think they're always right, because they're usually not"

[Lt_Latency]

Thats a different issue entirely. MMO's are probably the worst medium for any semblance of PVP

 

My problem is them only have 4 warzones then making us grind 20k coms 40 at a time.

 

I'm sure 4 warzones is NOT enough content to force you to play them 3 or 4 hours a day every day to even hope of getting geared up.

[JeramieCrowe]

"Weasely" is a very good word for it.

 

Smoke and mirrors. The game isn't performing the way they wanted it to, so they're downplaying its importance in the company's lineup as well as downplaying the scale of the subscription decline.

 

Don't mistake "downplaying" for "not worried"...

[Muskaan]

My problem is them only have 4 warzones then making us grind 20k coms 40 at a time.

 

I'm sure 4 warzones is NOT enough content to force you to play them 3 or 4 hours a day every day to even hope of getting geared up.

 

You are assuming instant queues. In some servers, it's impossible to even get a WZ going.

[JeramieCrowe]

I didn't play WoW, so I can't be sure; however, this chart makes it quite clear...

 

http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-1.png

 

Well, it's hard to see due to the scale of the graph, but WoW did, indeed, have a sharp decrease 6 months in. Then, it started to increase again, which is actually atypical.

 

So, so far TOR's subs are "on target", above the typical MMO curve. That's all well and good, but if BioWare doesn't want to keep losing subs, they have to act fast.

 

Also, if they want to realize the same atypical trend that WoW did, they really need to get their ducks that they have lined up out the door. And not soon, immediately.

[JeramieCrowe]

That first comment of theirs was very 'weaselly' ....

 

'First, the current number of active subscribers, 1.3 million, is very consistent with the original assumptions we made when we acquired BioWare in 2008.'

 

To refer to 4 year old assumption.....like any company doesn't update their financial assumptions every year.

 

You know, I mentioned a month ago that one of two things would happen when EA released the numbers. Either (1), if they were around 1.7 million, people would call them liars. Or (2) if it was less than that, people would use it to claim the sky is falling, disregarding any evidence given.

 

And, no, the middle ground is NOT doing both. Any decent company can EASILY project 4 years. When that fourth year comes, you double-check, and obviously they think they're still on target. You guys act like you have your finger on the pulse better than professionals, and it's mildly entertaining to see.

[WrentheFaceless]

My problem is them only have 4 warzones then making us grind 20k coms 40 at a time.

 

I'm sure 4 warzones is NOT enough content to force you to play them 3 or 4 hours a day every day to even hope of getting geared up.

 

Stuff does seem to cost a bit yes, but thats a carrot on the stick grind maystay of a MMO

 

I was refering to the fact that MMO's are almost impossible to balance for PVP

[Aaoogaa]

Lets see subscriber base down 24% in 5 months. Stock prices down 31% since the first of the year. Yeah I woudl consider the current trend a failure. EA might want to step in and get the BW dev team back on a positive customer driven trend to improve the game experience instead of gutting classes to dumbed down content. I know many 6 month subscribers that are letting their accounts go and those won't be included in this downturn. BW might want to wake up and smell the collapse and turn around the terrible trend the game has been taking. The Rakghoul plague was the only fun thing that this game has released since launch...1.2 was a complete failure and the number 1 reason so many subs were lost. It might be a good time to look at replacing the lead developer(s) to get this game back on the trend it had going from beta into launch. Edited May 8, 2012 by Aaoogaa

[Slurmez]

Lets see subscriber base down 24% in 5 months. Stock prices down 31% since the first of the year. Yeah I woudl consider the current trend a failure. EA might want to step in and get the BW dev team back on a positive customer driven trend to improve the game experience instead of gutting classes to dumbed down content. I know many 6 month subscribers that are letting their accounts go and those won't be included in this downturn. BW might want to wake up and smell the collapse and turn around the terrible trend the game has been taking. The Rakghoul plague was the only fun thing that this game has released since launch...1.2 was a complete failure and the number 1 reason so many subs were lost. It might be a good time to look at replacing the lead developer(s) to get this game back on the trend it had going from beta into launch.

 

1.2 was a disaster yes but they havent even began to see or count those numbers drop off as they are all still active thanks to the free month. Any subs lost due to 1.2 are still to come.

[Sanxxx]

You know, I mentioned a month ago that one of two things would happen when EA released the numbers. Either (1), if they were around 1.7 million, people would call them liars. Or (2) if it was less than that, people would use it to claim the sky is falling, disregarding any evidence given.

 

And, no, the middle ground is NOT doing both. Any decent company can EASILY project 4 years. When that fourth year comes, you double-check, and obviously they think they're still on target. You guys act like you have your finger on the pulse better than professionals, and it's mildly entertaining to see.

 

Please, , it's not a question of 'finger on the pulse etc' , most companies have 3-5 year projections, No company points back to a 4 year old projection because by definition you have a more current one.

 

You talk about reading the whole thing, well if you can't see the general,downplay of SWTOR in the overall presentation you must be blind.

[cujojax]

Just got my second 50, cant even begin to get them geared out. My once full server with 1 min pvp q's has become not getting into a WZ at all. Hell sunday I logged in, queued instantly and went and quested for 2 hours..... realized I was still in q when i logged for bed after not playing one WZ. Its REALLY fun when I do get in to get completely facerolled in my recruit gear with one piece of battlemaster I purchased from capping my comms in the 1-49 bracket. Dailies will pretty much become weekly's and weekly to monthly's.

 

Logged over to my one lvl 33 repub toon, 424 members in the guild hes in, not 1 online besides myself.

 

Im still playing, and paying to play a single player story game now, but only to pass the time until GW2, I played the beta, if your more into pvp then pve thats where if go. IMO pvp is a complete joke in SWTOR when stacked against GW

 

Im seeing fewer and fewer posters trying to spin this positive, I just dont see a favorable outcome anymore, I wanted to love this game like how I couldn't wait to get home and play wow, but I just never got that feeling here.... far to many issues.

BIO would gain alot of respect from me if they just admitted their mistakes instead of being so stubborn.

Edited May 8, 2012 by cujojax

[mikphobos]

what do you spect people?

like seriously, this game is about leveling alts, this is not a real MMO with endgame and pvp or pve that will keep you entertain and busy wanting to get something badly

 

its just a online game with a community , but that is played as a single player game, this is like ME3 Copy online

So stop complaining people, just get on you heads SW is NOT a MMO.

a MMO wont focus on alts, they will know what matters is the endgame, the leveling process is already solid

the endgame just doesnt exist.

Edited May 8, 2012 by mikphobos

[cujojax]

what do you spect people?

like seriously, this game is about leveling alts, this is not a real MMO with endgame and pvp or pve that will keep you entertain and busy wanting to get something badly

 

its just a online game with a community , but that is played as a single player game, this is like ME3 Copy online

So stop complaining people, just get on you heads SW is NOT a MMO.

a MMO wont focus on alts, they will know what matters is the endgame, the leveling process is already solid

the endgame just doesnt exist.

 

so why market it as one and charge a sub fee?

[mikphobos]

so why market it as one and charge a sub fee?

 

that my friend is the question many of us are making now, it was suppose to be a MMO, but i doubt a MMO have 50 players total on a server, IF you are lucky.

and correct me if im wrong but, even if you get ALL the classes of this game from 1 to 50, you will eventually become 50 with all, and then what? delete them and start again? Lol

 

MMO need a solid endgame, solid carrot people can keep following

this game lacks both, 24% drop on subs, being barely top 10 for EA, hell the sims are over SWTOR priority

So dont even try to defend anything, the truth is there, the game need a real change or will go F2P at best.

[bennygold]

500k subscribers will still be profitable, if an investor call from a few years ago is still correct.

 

Only with a fraction of the staff which were working on this game up until release. It costs a lot to maintain everything after going live.

[CrunkShizzle]

Rift has barely been out a year and its at 250k and you think its a good thing? how soon before its 150k then 50k then f2p just like this game will be and im also pretty sure rift didnt cost almost 300 million to make.

 

rift has been out for longer then a year

 

i guess you must have never followed it before it closed or whatever.eather way,that game looked like trash from the start anyway

[Zsavooz]

rift has been out for longer then a year

 

i guess you must have never followed it before it closed or whatever.eather way,that game looked like trash from the start anyway

 

is there a game besides SWTOR you like? You trash every game that is mentioned. Maybe you ought to save your breath for your inflatable date?

[jarjarloves]

You obviously never played SWG. In ONE DAY, SOE cut 32 classes down to 9. Totally removing an entire open-ended skill system and replacing it with a 3 tree talent system. They also lost 200k subs. But guess what? people still played it. Once they added new content they recovered quite a bit of subs as well. People will not just ragequit for life if there is at least something the game has to offer that the others don't.

 

swtor isn't the "ZOMG WORST MMO FAIL EVAH!" as so many attention seeking threads proclaim. There are FAR worse out there *cough* STO/AoC/WAR/LoTRO/Fallen Earth/Rift/etc *cough*

 

Edit: what if you logged in tomorrow and your whole class was gone? Not "no longer viable" but gone?

 

He's clearly never played WoW. He is also being WAY too overdramatic. It is no where near as radical of a change as he claims. It's really not even that bad. But some people....

[Angedechu]

WoW subs numbers are also released tomorrow.

[Kaden]

Only with a fraction of the staff which were working on this game up until release. It costs a lot to maintain everything after going live.

 

Had to unsubscribe today due to the low servers... what a shame.

[Andryah]

Problem is EA has to explain to its investors as to why their MMO can't make WoW numbers. Investors only care about return to their investments. That is $$$$$$

 

They never promised WoW numbers, so no explanation to investors is required.

[Andryah]

There are many MMOs out there that are profitable, SWTOR isnt, not yet, it wont even be close to covering the start up costs.

 

You, and several others need to learn how R&D costs are accrued and accounted for by corporations. They are a sunk cost investment that is capitalized and depreciated on an amortized schedule, amortized over a period of years (typically 5 years). They ARE NOT an operations cost.

 

THEY ARE NOT loaded to the product as a production cost (an operations cost) to be recouped before turning a profit.

 

As they said in the investor call, SWTOR is operationally strong (which is corp speak for PROFITABLE), meaning that it contributes positive revenue generation an a positive bottom line (net contribution after operations expenses are accounted for). They also said it was stable and profitable.

[CrunkShizzle]

They never promised WoW numbers, so no explanation to investors is required.

 

but they did promise an mmo that would go up against wow

 

its a shame all it did in that regard is attract its horrible playerbase

[bennygold]

You, and several others need to learn how R&D costs are accrued and accounted for by corporations. They are a sunk cost investment that is capitalized and depreciated on an amortized schedule, amortized over a period of years (typically 5 years). They ARE NOT an operations cost.

 

THEY ARE NOT loaded to the product as a production cost (an operations cost) to be recouped before turning a profit.

 

As they said in the investor call, SWTOR is operationally strong (which is corp speak for PROFITABLE), meaning that it contributes positive revenue generation an a positive bottom line (net contribution after operations expenses are accounted for). They also said it was stable and profitable.

 

It will be costing them more now the game is live than when it was in development so they were banking on this being successful and without some stimulus I cannot see the trend reversing from a 25% decline. I want to see SWTOR succeed!