What is my unique advantage Bioware?

[Darannt]

So when I went to cancel my account today I picked "imbalanced play" for my reason and a little thing popped up that said "Every class has unique advantages and disadvantages in terms of balance." That got me to thinking, and with the current state of our class I'm hard pressed to see any unique advantages so I thought I'd break some stuff down and get opinions on it. I'll be strictly speaking as gunnery as I don't consider assault a viable spec in either pve or pvp given it's lack of burst for a small tradeoff in mobility.

 

1) Commandos have no interupt. Every other class gets an interupt.

 

2) Commandos get one knockback and the ability in gunnery to talent a second smaller kb. These function as an interupt unless you are either a flashpoint/operations Boss or your opponents resolve bar is full. In addition, unlike an actual interupt, they fill your opponents resolve bar and provide no delay on the recasting of the ability.. Which makes them both far less useful in both pve and pvp then an actual interupt. To my knowledge we have never been given a reason why one of the most important tools in pvp has been denied to our class.

 

3) We lack mobility. Almost every other class recieves a leap, a pull, a charge, force speed, etc. We recieve nothing at all. We have the poorest mobility of any class in the game with the possible exception of snipers.

 

4) We do have a cc, it works on everything, it breaks on damage, it's usable in combat. Sages have the same cc, theirs is both much more recognizable as well as talentable to be instant and cc more then one mob. Other dps classes have cc's as well tho they can be limited by mob type and whether they can be used in or out of combat.

 

5)Our only slow requires talenting, 2 points high in the gunnery tree for a 2s slow on full auto. Every other dps class gets a slow or a snare. Sages get one built into their primary attack and an additional, actual slow, every 15s with the ability to talent it for faster refresh.

 

6) Coupled with our poor mobility we get one cc break. The standard one everyone gets. Period. Other classes get immunity to cc's off of abilities, or immunity to cc buttons. Plus a cc break. My shadow can clear any movement impaired effects with force speed every 20 seconds(talented), plus Resilience, plus his cc break.

 

7) Channelled attacks. All my primary abilities require a channel of between 1.5 and 2.5 seconds. Easily interuptable. Easily shut down by any decent player with an interupt. Furthermore to use other of my abilities it is necessary to first use one of my easily interuptable abilities. No other class is so limited in their rotation or as easily shut down. A marauder doesn't have any interuptable attacks, the one attack they had that was interuptable was made noninterupatble in the patch.

 

8) Aoe. Mortar volley's range was reduced. Sorcs equivelent ability, Force Storm, has kept it's range (the same as mortar volley pre nerf). In addition, force storm has no cooldown making it's huge aoe spammable. If moratar volley, which has a significant cooldown, was unacceptable why is force storm left alone? Snipers also have an aoe whose size was left alone.

 

8) Damage. We are no longer anywhere near the top in regards to dps after 1.2 Marauders are easily 300-400 dps higher. Snipers are higher. Parsers have us coming in at the bottom or next to last. Either their math is messed up, they don't know what they are doing or they just didn't want to announce how hard they were hitting us but our demo round "buff" causes me to do at least 2k less a hit.

 

I'm gonna pick on sages for a second. I don't want them nerfed, I like my sage. I just want to make a point. Sages get EVERYTHING. They get mobility, cc, snares and slows, aoe, two viable damage trees, an interupt, an awesome shield they can cast on themselves and others, Rescue/extricate, self healing, instant not los'able attacks, and damage at least on par with troopers. They seem to be distinctly and very obviously missing any significant disadvantage. I must just be missing it since "Every class has unique advantages and disadvantages."

 

So Bioware. What's my unique advantage in playing my commando? The ability to both do less damage and have less utility then any other class in the game? The current trooper is, in my opinion, a detriment to an ops group. With enrage timers as tight as they currently are a raid is much better off bringing a class that can either do more dps or bring more utility to a raid. Pvp currently no class is as bad off as a gunnery trooper, horrible 1v1 vs an equally geared opponent and almost sure to lose against any quality opponent that understands how to use their interupt and play their class.

 

My subscription is already cancelled. I have 42 days until my play time is expired. That's how long you have to make my class viable in both raids and pvp.

 

 

P.S. No, you can't have my stuff.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Darannt
spelling

[FrogSkin]

... I'll be strictly speaking as gunnery as I don't consider assault a viable spec in either pve or pvp given it's lack of burst for a small tradeoff in mobility.

...

 

I stopped reading after that statement as you clearly don't know how to play assault spec or possibly a commando.

 

Plasma Grenade, Incendiary Round, HIB, Plastics, Full Auto, HIB provides plenty of burst and most of it can be done while moving.

 

Gunnry spec post 1.2 is not a viable PvP spec.

[Jay_Stocker]

bioware hate commandos, and the class is a joke compared to others.

 

at launch we were the only healers that didnt get a in-combat res? why? if it was a jedi only force-style move unique to the sage, i could understand. but giving it to operatives aswell... then deciding commandos/mercs were the only one thats didnt deserve it? stupid....

 

it took them 6 months to make a small basic balance like that in 1.2, mainly because more people are dying from combat medics, so dont expect them to buff us with anything unqiue so we could bring something to a rated warzone team.

 

bioware are pathetic at balancing, this doesnt combine well with their hatred for combat medics...

 

reroll, or wait for GW2 like me.

[edenbass]

Commando sucks now. Wish I could respec to Vanguard. I have no Idea what my role is anymore.

[Verraton]

3) We lack mobility. Almost every other class recieves a leap, a pull, a charge, force speed, etc. We recieve nothing at all. We have the poorest mobility of any class in the game with the possible exception of snipers.

 

That.

[Darannt]

I just don't think anyone at Bioware actually has a clue as to what they are doing at this point. We get nerfed across the board and marauders and sentinels get buffred and turned into dps machines. I don't know about the rest of you but before the nerf a good mara would rock me, after even the bad ones just laugh while I get mauled and sent back to the spawn point. Edited May 8, 2012 by Darannt

[Echouza]

You explained this very well darannt. this class forum is stacked with complaints on what they did to us, we used to have a unique role which was survivability, but since 1.2 i feel like an annoying fly and all the other classes have their swatters. i'm probably going to be right behind you in leaving seeing as how i spent this much time in this class and it's getting screwed this hard. meanwhile BW isnt putting out any information or even acknowledging the problem.

[NeverRose]

Only assault is *playable* atm.

 

Still, you're better off with diffrent dps in your premade.

[Protanos]

Relax... Today age of Force users... Bioware love it and in last patch nerf tech and up force... for example marauder can kill 2-3 players with no problem, they have immunity eggs, huge dmg and invisibility.

 

This game made for force users ither meat for it. (Emperor Wrath, member of Dark Council etc.)

[snafus]

I stopped reading after that statement as you clearly don't know how to play assault spec or possibly a commando.

 

Plasma Grenade, Incendiary Round, HIB, Plastics, Full Auto, HIB provides plenty of burst and most of it can be done while moving.

 

Gunnry spec post 1.2 is not a viable PvP spec.

 

Assault spec is garbage for pvp, yes you are more mobile and harder to shutdown but you lack real burst damage. What little burst you get is very unreliable and any decent team with a competent healer just heals through all your damage. Overall you can match or out do the overall dps of a gunnery but the gunnery still wins out on burst dps, And burst is all that matters in pvp.

[Goibhnie]

While not unique to commandos we do get stealth scan, but we also get field aid which should in my eyes be usable while stunned and against force cc on self only while stunned. I always think of the trooper in the promo video that continued to bear down on the sith even while being force lightninged and thought we'd have some awesome cc resistance... *bubble bursting*.

 

If nothing else I think the 31 point skill in assualt and gunnery should provide an interrupt along with the damage, I know that is deep in the tree, but that would be a significant skill to be coupled in the regular rotation. I also think if that mortar volley is going to keep the radius it does have, it should only knock down and not back and knock down players as well.

 

Inquiring minds want to know Bioware - what gives us our unique advantage? I missed that blerb on my cancel interview, thanks for bringing it up OP.

[brutalor]

Our unique advantage is Heavy Armor.

 

It would be nice if it has not been nerfed like hell.

 

Heavy Armor do nothing against marauder wich kind of damage is internal.

 

I honestly see more usefull the Sorcerer Static Barrier ability than wearing a Heavy Armor.

 

Gunnery is broken.

Assault specialist is pretty better but is nothing compared as the same tree of Vanguard.

 

As i said thousands of times i want someone ask me: are you enjoying your class? after all those changes do you want to re-select your advanced class?

 

no... here there are only savage nerfing without any explaination!

[pbxsparx]

I'd trade heavy armor for all the things Commandos lack any day.

[Arzoo]

Only thing we have I can think of that another class doesn't is stealth scan...

 

Which frankly is really underwhelming since it's stuck on the global cooldown and doesn't even snare players you hit with it.

[pbxsparx]

Oh my god! I was just pvping and I just saw the COMMANDO'S UNIQUE ABILITY!

 

 

STEALTH SCAN!

[Easpeak]

**** that!

 

We get facerolled, we do not faceroll - that truly makes us unique!

[NeverRose]

Personally I call it "Drop The Beat Star Wars Disco Ballz" not stealth scan but whatever...

[Goibhnie]

Personally I call it "Drop The Beat Star Wars Disco Ballz" not stealth scan but whatever...

 

My favorites is dropping it on top of the turrets, far more entertaining Dance Magic Dance

[Fhrosty]

Only thing we have I can think of that another class doesn't is stealth scan...

 

After living the majority of my SW life on my Commando, I lol'd in pvp on my 14 assassin when I saw a commando solo-guarding a door drop a Stealth Scan. I just waited (while stealthed), just out of range of the scan before moving in for the maul.

[hulkweazel]

1) Commandos have no interupt. Every other class gets an interupt.

True. I don't see why Commandos don't have one either.

2) Commandos get one knockback and the ability in gunnery to talent a second smaller kb. These function as an interupt unless you are either a flashpoint/operations Boss or your opponents resolve bar is full. In addition, unlike an actual interupt, they fill your opponents resolve bar and provide no delay on the recasting of the ability.. Which makes them both far less useful in both pve and pvp then an actual interupt. To my knowledge we have never been given a reason why one of the most important tools in pvp has been denied to our class.

Scoundrels get no knockbacks.

3) We lack mobility. Almost every other class recieves a leap, a pull, a charge, force speed, etc. We recieve nothing at all. We have the poorest mobility of any class in the game with the possible exception of snipers.

Scoundrels and Gunslingers have none. Scoundrels have it far worse as they are melee class so can't even close the gap on others. (No, stealth is not a gap closer).

4) We do have a cc, it works on everything, it breaks on damage, it's usable in combat. Sages have the same cc, theirs is both much more recognizable as well as talentable to be instant and cc more then one mob. Other dps classes have cc's as well tho they can be limited by mob type and whether they can be used in or out of combat.

Scoundrels/Shadows - stealth, out of combat CC only, and a droid CC. Snipers - none except droid CC. Vanguards and Jedi Knights - no CCs. Commandos are one of two classes with combat CC against non-droids.

5)Our only slow requires talenting, 2 points high in the gunnery tree for a 2s slow on full auto. Every other dps class gets a slow or a snare. Sages get one built into their primary attack and an additional, actual slow, every 15s with the ability to talent it for faster refresh.

Incorrect. Commando knockback is also a slow.

6) Coupled with our poor mobility we get one cc break. The standard one everyone gets. Period. Other classes get immunity to cc's off of abilities, or immunity to cc buttons. Plus a cc break. My shadow can clear any movement impaired effects with force speed every 20 seconds(talented), plus Resilience, plus his cc break.

Uh, Commandos can cleanse certain abilities on a 5 second cooldown.

7) Channelled attacks. All my primary abilities require a channel of between 1.5 and 2.5 seconds. Easily interuptable. Easily shut down by any decent player with an interupt. Furthermore to use other of my abilities it is necessary to first use one of my easily interuptable abilities. No other class is so limited in their rotation or as easily shut down. A marauder doesn't have any interuptable attacks, the one attack they had that was interuptable was made noninterupatble in the patch.

Again, incorrect. Assault is not, and even in Gunnery you have a few abilities like High Impact Bolt.

8) Aoe. Mortar volley's range was reduced. Sorcs equivelent ability, Force Storm, has kept it's range (the same as mortar volley pre nerf). In addition, force storm has no cooldown making it's huge aoe spammable. If moratar volley, which has a significant cooldown, was unacceptable why is force storm left alone? Snipers also have an aoe whose size was left alone.

Agreed, the new AoE range is pitiful.

 

8) Damage. We are no longer anywhere near the top in regards to dps after 1.2 Marauders are easily 300-400 dps higher. Snipers are higher. Parsers have us coming in at the bottom or next to last. Either their math is messed up, they don't know what they are doing or they just didn't want to announce how hard they were hitting us but our demo round "buff" causes me to do at least 2k less a hit.

Marauders and Snipers are DPS only classes, of course they are on top. In any case, most parses I've seen have Operatives on the bottom.

 

Corrected a few inaccuracies. In addition, you are comparing various weaknesses to different classes (ie. less mobility than melee, less DPS than pure DPS classes, less AoE than sages). You can't just pick and choose comparisons like this. Of course things will seem worse than it really is.

 

I'm not saying Commandos need improvements, but you can't be selectively comparing things that weren't meant to be compared.

[Meshimashi]

hulkweazel I don't see why you felt like beating on a guy that unsub because he doesnt enjoy his class anymore.

 

I'm a fresh dinged Commando and I sometimes really regret I went commando and not vanguard, I can pull off decent damage sure (playing gunnery) but if someone with a lightsaber decides to attack me, or any melee class I'm doomed. You are playing a scoundrel? When use my knockback vs scoundrels they just use flashbang or get into cover to place a explosive prob on me, perhaps not a gap-closer but it still neutrilize my knockback. Frankly speaking my knockback is useless since every melee class counter it easily. Another huge problem with Gunnery is the lack of mobility like already mentioned which makes us a extremly good target for everyone since we just stand there trying our best to get out some damage before: interrupted, stunned, sapped, nuked, knocked down or simple just faced rolled by a marauder/sentinel.

 

back to the topic, what's unique for Commando Gunnery? lack of mobility, stealthscan, low health/survivability and easy targets in PvP.

 

I hope bioware pay some attention to all these threads if so I got some suggestions on making Gunnery playible in 1v1 scenarios.

 

 

1) stockstrike knockback immobilize the target for 3 sec or knockdown.

2) lower cooldown on reactive shield + casted/channeled abilities uninterruptible during up-time.

3) full auto snare immobilize instead of snaring

4) demolition round 5-10 meter knockback

5) grav round not interruptible or full auto

6) charged barrier/barrel stack up similar to vortex debuff. 2x instead of 1x (if talented)

7) remove gcd from demolitition round and high impact bolt

8) increase over all damage or over all survivability

 

 

motivation for these improvements:

 

We are a turret that stands still and every ability we have are pretty much based on the useage of grav round, grav round is a highcost ability with a cast time that doesnt deal much damage but is required for enabling other abilities. We are a ranged class which by it self is a advantage since we can quickly change targets and start our attack before melee but if we don't have the advantage of being ranged then what do we have? nothing. Melee classes deal alot more damage once they reach us and easily lockout our entire damage output WHILE dealing damage. Alittle more utility to stay ranged wouldnt hurt, even melee get ranged attack why doesnt ranged get any powerful melee attacks?

 

I'll not unsub or reroll I like my commando there was a reason to why I wanted a commando but it makes me sad when I so easily get killed in PvP. I don't mind getting killed but let me atleast give my oppenent a challange before I do.

[ArchangelLBC]

I'm gonna pick on sages for a second. I don't want them nerfed, I like my sage. I just want to make a point. Sages get EVERYTHING. They get mobility, cc, snares and slows, aoe, two viable damage trees, an interupt, an awesome shield they can cast on themselves and others, Rescue/extricate, self healing, instant not los'able attacks, and damage at least on par with troopers. They seem to be distinctly and very obviously missing any significant disadvantage. I must just be missing it since "Every class has unique advantages and disadvantages."

 

To be fair they don't get EVERYTHING. They lack an armor debuff, which does matter in PVE at the least, and stealth scan is somewhat useful, especially in Denova (maybe in PVP? I dunno, I don't PVP).

 

 

Everything else you said seems about right, and by next patch I expect sages to have both some sort of stealth break ability as well as a sunder since the class is really hurting without it. Commandos will see Curtain of Fire procs dropped to 15% when fully talented and damage across the board nerfed 25% to encourage more active rotations.

[ImariKurumi]

To be fair they don't get EVERYTHING. They lack an armor debuff, which does matter in PVE at the least, and stealth scan is somewhat useful, especially in Denova (maybe in PVP? I dunno, I don't PVP).

 

 

Everything else you said seems about right, and by next patch I expect sages to have both some sort of stealth break ability as well as a sunder since the class is really hurting without it. Commandos will see Curtain of Fire procs dropped to 15% when fully talented and damage across the board nerfed 25% to encourage more active rotations.

 

My Gunnery commando does better than Sages in PvP tbh, provided im left alone. But in PvP and PvE healing, Sages pawn me hardcore hard... They just have too many utility(shields, CC, speed burst), stronger, better, efficient, heals... I may wear Heavy armor, but the make up of Sage classes way more than compensate for their light armor...

Edited May 9, 2012 by ImariKurumi

[TimoTribal]

I too quit today for all the reasons that the OP posted. This game is no longer fun to play and is extremely imbalanced. The Commando/Merc is BY FAR the worst class in the game in both PvP and PvE. I am warhero/battlemaster geared for PvP and also blackhole/rakata geared for PvE and it is so annoying to see rerollers kicking *** with the current flavour of the month classes in scrub gear as fresh 50's while I have to bust my balls to even have a small impact in a WZ or OP.

 

I have waited several weeks and I will no longer pay for incompetence from the developers. The rated Warzones will not be far away now and who in the hell would want to play a Commando/Merc when that happens. Bioware will never get the game into a state of balance that is enjoyable in time. I will save myself the frustration and also keep my money.

[rjavig]

lol like everyone you guys make it sound like no commando has successfully beaten an operations or pvp match after 1.2. i guess the way you guys make it sound im so far the only one. which 1 means you guys suck a lot or 2 im just that good . what makes a commando unique both heals and dps is the reasons ill list. its long and if you feel i am wrong point out were and i wont mind discussing why i think this (WARNING this class isnt for the mentally handicapped or those players that don't like a challenge and sorry for the spelling but im tired)

healer-

1. trauma probe yes it cost 2 ammo (should be only 1 in my opinion) but once your good gear each tick can crit for 800+ which gives you a few seconds of dps in the beginning of a boss fight. definitely lets me dps a few seconds. (overall can heal from 3.5k-8.5k in total for one placement of 10 ticks)

 

2.no other class really has a heal on the move and we have insta heals as bacta infusion, kolto bomb, and hammer shot. if you use these wisely when your moving around you can heal a player during that transition phase (e.g fall downs during soa, most of all ev boss fights except for pylon and counsel, bone trasher, some ec fights, karagga, and many other bosses even in flashpoints) and i know that no scoundrel or sage can do that on the move.which gives us more breathing room once the real damage starts and not have to worry about bringing him up fast since the tank will be up.

 

3. our heals hit as soon as we place them not like sages which you either channel or its overtime which is not helpful during huge spike damages on a tank yes you can probably heal it but a commando has a much easier time healing through those.

 

4.our kolto bomb (yes nerf was a bit of a downer) still is usefully when doing a 8 man operations because it helps the healing over all even for sages or a scoundrel is in your group so if you place your kolto bomb down first before the sages aoe it will heal much better then without kolto bomb.

 

5.were the only ones that get 3 things that make our resources a bit easier to handle. one is ammo regen which gives 6 +2 extra over time if you out 2 in med tree and also one that makes insta heal and another one that makes no ammo cost. i am sure no sage or scoundrel get this unless the sage has to sacrifice his hp which commandos clearly dont. i talked to sage healers and after 1.2 there force regen is just as hard as commandos ammo regen.

 

6 . (troll comment) we get to probe people which heals them.. no other class can say i was able to keep people alive by probing them makes it a interesting thing to say when someone hears that without knowing the whole conversation

 

dps gunnery (pve only since its supposed to be for pve)-

 

1.our gravity vortex does much more damage then other armor debuffs by a lot still we hit from 1.5k+ while a jedi knight hits maybe from 750-1.3k

 

2.same as healer we can use a insta hit with grav round without activation and cost and hit high and we cans tart damage right away just like a gunslinger instead of having to leap or run to target. (and yes much faster than other melee class because during the leap i can easily pull two hits in before the melee class has a chance to do his)

 

3.our gravity vortex helps all classes out and stacks with the knights also so more damage overall

 

4.players say our movablity sucks but compared to a gunslinger were much more mobile then they are we dont have to go behind a cover every time to use out strongest hits and mind you were the only two realy range classes and easier to handle for bosses like the droid in lost island and so on.

 

5.high impact bolt which is a bit the same as dispatch can be used anytime after gravity vortex is on makes it usable during the whole fight and each charged barrel you get i believe it ups it by 8%? which with 5

makes 2.1k-2.9k (this is without bonus damage, crit multiplier and other important stuff just base damage with bonus from charged barrel so really inaccurate)

 

6.we can cleanse ourselves from physical effects while others cant unless sage is a healer so makes it easier to cleanse ourselves for fights like dr. lorrick in lost island and other bosses with physical effects.

 

 

these are a few of the things that make us unique and of course there is a few more. if you dont believe me put what you think i wont mind proving it to you since i played both dps and heals and enjoy it and proved it countless of times that this class is far from dead yes some changes would be good im not saying this class is perfect but like i said seriously your comments are just trolling ones our you cant play your class. we are not as bad as the scoundrels were before 1.2 and were not close or i would not be able to heal operations or hard mode flashpoints and i would not of been able to carry a low geared healer that had barley tionesse through hm ev or hm kp. (know this from experience have dps as commando and healed and tanked as guardian and dpsed)