how do yall get 4k crits?

[KingofForce]

i have mostly battlemaster with some columi sprinkled in there, my crits is at 29%, but my surge is only at 59% my friend i need to get it to 70%. i have a relic that get me to 73% and my crit 35%, but it barely vvorks the most i get is random strings of 3k. i dont understand vvher the povver of the assassin comes from, like on my sentinel its clear i knovv hovv to get big crit and maximize the damage you do. but on the assassin no matter hovv much i try i cant figure it out hovv to get 4k crits.

 

the only guaranteed crits i cant get is vvhen i pop recklessness and use discharge or shock.

 

ive tried relic>adrenal>recklessness>overcharge saber, and i get a diminishing return on the backstab and the string of 3k crits vvith my force abilities. this in PVE.

 

im deception spec'd

TL;DR i cant get a 4k crit to save my life on my assassin, hovv do i get one?

Edited May 7, 2012 by KingofForce

[Skolops]

i have mostly battlemaster with some columi sprinkled in there, my crits is at 29%, but my surge is only at 59% my friend i need to get it to 70%. i have a relic that get me to 73% and my crit 35%, but it barely vvorks the most i get is random strings of 3k. i dont understand vvher the povver of the assassin comes from, like on my sentinel its clear i knovv hovv to get big crit and maximize the damage you do. but on the assassin no matter hovv much i try i cant figure it out hovv to get 4k crits.

 

the only guaranteed crits i cant get is vvhen i pop recklessness and use discharge or shock.

 

ive tried relic>adrenal>recklessness>overcharge saber, and i get a diminishing return on the backstab and the string of 3k crits vvith my force abilities. this in PVE.

 

im deception spec'd

TL;DR i cant get a 4k crit to save my life on my assassin, hovv do i get one?

 

Better tuned gear.

 

Essentially, more power. On my Shadow, I have around 76% surge and approximately 600 power BEFORE any relics or adrenals. The crit rating is around 27%.

 

Where you get these depends on what you want to be doing, but if you're looking to PvP you need to first get rid of the Columi stuff and go full BM. For PvE, the opposite is true. Next, start swapping out mods and enhancements. Also, get orange gear with augment slots for each item (head, chest, hands, legs, feet, saber) and fill them with willpower augments. If you haven't already done so, hunt down all 3 red matrix shards and make a matrix cube. Equip that with a power relic, and shelve the critical relic.

 

You get the mods and enhancements by buying whatever items have them - whether they are designed for your class or not - and pulling the mods out. For example, I believe the Marauder Battlemaster gloves have enhancements with better power numbers which can be put in in place of yours. Replace accuracy down to about 96% (for PvP in any case) and critical rating down to about 23 - 24% before the operative buff, which will keep it closer to 30% for you.

[Astarica]

I don't get why people come up with these Power/Crit numbers without context. You don't stack Power/Crit in this game because Power/Crit is automatically maximized on the best gear as long as you ignore tradeoffs of +Power/Crit -Endurance (this is a whole different issue). Whether the enhancement is Power/Surge, Crit/Surge, Power/Accuracy, or Crit/Accuracy doesn't change the fact that the highest level of enhancement has the highest possible Power/Crit values, so you can't 'stack' them unless you drop Crit for Power or vice versa, or you drop Endurance for Power/Crit. Likewise mods come in high offense low endurance or low offense high endurance flavors even for DPS. You're certainly welcome to take the low endurance variants but be aware there is a rather significant drawback for taking these stuff.

 

At any rate 4K crits are not hard to get on Assassinates but they usually won't show up in the leaderboard because the hit that killed the enemy doesn't register as 'highest hit' for whatever reason. I get smashed for 3800 and that's probably the biggest single hit ability in the game right now and yet people act as if it's easy to get past this damage against well-geared, high mitigation class targets. If you can hit a Marauder or Tankasin for 4K, that's an insanely good hit. Even 3K is awesome on one of those classes. I mean sure I can pop 5Ks easy on Sages with no expertise but who cares about those guys?

[Akyrashadowen]

this -> http://www.noxxic.com/

[Skolops]

I would not agree with the assessment that the website an above poster assert in putting critical rating as more important than power. I previously valued critical rating very highly and had it up to 35%, or 40% after the smuggler buff. After reading through the suggestions of some of the more skilled Shadows and doing significant number crunching, I found that power just provides more bang for the buck than either of those.

 

The difference between having 35% critical rating with about 350 power and 25% critical rating with 700 power (at about 76% surge in either case) was, in full BM gear with some WH, about 40 - 50k in total damage per warzone.

 

The site is also at least somewhat questionable in considering accuracy as more important than either critical or power. It's number is right: 95% melee or 105% force accuracy is just about what you want, but the site presents it as being more important while the good min/maxers are trying to get rid of their accuracy in favor of other stats, ending up at about that value of 5% bonus.

 

Ultimately, I think the numbers the site presents are fairly good, though I'd say drop that critical chance from 30% to about 27%, and keep in mind that in warzones you should have 5% additional coming from smuggler/operative buffs anyways.

 

Edit: Looking further at the site, it makes another rather large snafu for the Shadow, this time in the spec for Infiltration. It provides a fairly standard 2/31/8 build, with two large - one of the HUGE - errors.

 

First, it puts the 2 KC points into Applied Force, which has been mathematically proven to be worse than putting those 2 points into Technique Mastery. This is fairly well known at this point and its a rather surprising misstep.

 

The bigger problem is that it puts only 3 points into Deep Impact, which effectively turns the gigantic burst damage that Infiltration/Deception is good at into something far less. This is a tremendous error. It is the difference between a critical hit from Project/Shock or Force Breach/Discharge of about 5000 and one of about 5500, or more with better gear.

 

A nice site in some ways - and a GREAT concept - but given these two errors alone I'd be very wary to recommend it to anyone.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Skolops

[Exiled-Phoenix]

I hit 4k crits often without any pvp gear, i just have the mods from pvp gear because they are 61 willpower (same as rakata raid gear)

 

But can someone tell me how they get 30% crit, 76% surge AND 500-700 power?

[Astarica]

Crit is worse than Power point for point. The problem is that some of the hardest to take out targets are practically impossible to kill without a crit Assassinate so crit has a disproportaional value against very good players because nothing else can kill them. If you're not trying to win single handedly against tough premades, you can very well go with all Power at this point, but note that crit returns are a constant % while Power's return eventually diminishes since it's static. That is, if you do 1000 DPS, adding X crit will increase your DPS by 1%, while adding X Power might increase your DPS by 10. This ratio is static so when you do 2000 DPS, you still get 1% more DPS for the same amount of crit but you'd need twice the Power to get the same % DPS increase (need 2X for 20 DPS).

 

Of course given the relatively low number of Power available in this game, nobody is in danger of worrying about stuff like that at this point, but just keep in mind that it'll eventually happen.

[Astarica]

I hit 4k crits often without any pvp gear, i just have the mods from pvp gear because they are 61 willpower (same as rakata raid gear)

 

But can someone tell me how they get 30% crit, 76% surge AND 500-700 power?

 

I'm not even sure how it's possible because if you have 500 Power you've +Power on every slot and then you definitely won't have 30% crit base. Surge is doable if you have all +Surge secondary mods instead of +Accuracy. Due to how itemization works, Power + Crit has to be a constant number. You can never get Power without giving up Crit (or Endurance, but that's a different issue) or vice versa.

[nToxiK]

Crit is worse than Power point for point. The problem is that some of the hardest to take out targets are practically impossible to kill without a crit Assassinate so crit has a disproportaional value against very good players because nothing else can kill them. If you're not trying to win single handedly against tough premades, you can very well go with all Power at this point, but note that crit returns are a constant % while Power's return eventually diminishes since it's static. That is, if you do 1000 DPS, adding X crit will increase your DPS by 1%, while adding X Power might increase your DPS by 10. This ratio is static so when you do 2000 DPS, you still get 1% more DPS for the same amount of crit but you'd need twice the Power to get the same % DPS increase (need 2X for 20 DPS).

 

Of course given the relatively low number of Power available in this game, nobody is in danger of worrying about stuff like that at this point, but just keep in mind that it'll eventually happen.

 

Power has no diminishing returns like Crit and Surge do.

[Astarica]

Power has no diminishing returns like Crit and Surge do.

 

That itself is diminishing versus a constant % effect.

 

Let's say for the sake of argument 10 crit rating = 1% crit = 1% DPS increase and 10 Power = 10 DPS.

 

If your base DPS is 1000 then 10 crit = 10 Power.

 

If your base DPS is 2000 then in this case 10 crit = 20 Power because 1% of 2000 DPS is 20 DPS.

 

Since your DPS goes up as you add more Power, this means Crit is more favorable versus Power when you have more Power.

 

Yes Crit has diminishing returns too but you probably don't have to worry about hitting that anytime soon, especially not while you're stacking Power.

 

It's unlikely to be able to add enough Power at this point in time to significantly affect the Power to Crit tradeoff but there is a limitation to even Power.

[Exiled-Phoenix]

Crit is worse than Power point for point. The problem is that some of the hardest to take out targets are practically impossible to kill without a crit Assassinate so crit has a disproportaional value against very good players because nothing else can kill them. If you're not trying to win single handedly against tough premades, you can very well go with all Power at this point, but note that crit returns are a constant % while Power's return eventually diminishes since it's static. That is, if you do 1000 DPS, adding X crit will increase your DPS by 1%, while adding X Power might increase your DPS by 10. This ratio is static so when you do 2000 DPS, you still get 1% more DPS for the same amount of crit but you'd need twice the Power to get the same % DPS increase (need 2X for 20 DPS).

 

Of course given the relatively low number of Power available in this game, nobody is in danger of worrying about stuff like that at this point, but just keep in mind that it'll eventually happen.

 

Did you mistake power for crit or something?

Because its crit that diminishes as you stack it, power is always the same.

 

Crit gives you 0.043% PER POINT for 45 points, but for 440 crit points you will only get 0.033% per point.

power however will always give you the same amount of damage.

[Exiled-Phoenix]

That itself is diminishing versus a constant % effect.

 

Let's say for the sake of argument 10 crit rating = 1% crit = 1% DPS increase and 10 Power = 10 DPS.

 

If your base DPS is 1000 then 10 crit = 10 Power.

 

If your base DPS is 2000 then in this case 10 crit = 20 Power because 1% of 2000 DPS is 20 DPS.

 

Since your DPS goes up as you add more Power, this means Crit is more favorable versus Power when you have more Power.

 

Yes Crit has diminishing returns too but you probably don't have to worry about hitting that anytime soon, especially not while you're stacking Power.

 

It's unlikely to be able to add enough Power at this point in time to significantly affect the Power to Crit tradeoff but there is a limitation to even Power.

 

Dude you're theories are off by a mile.

i've asked members in my guild to give my their power numbers + damage boost it gives and up to 500 points in power, it will always, ALWAYS return the same number.

Crit and surge start dropping from the moment you go from 1 crit point to 2 crit points, just look further then the first 2 numbers on your calculator.

I use to have 530 crit points, i took off al my equipment and then re added it piece by piece to see how much % bonus i get per points.

Ofcourse i don't have a 1-2-3-4-5 chart but these are the numbers i got.

Using the most basic math formula...bonus % devided by number of crit points equals the % bonus per point.

 

45 crit points = 1.97% bonus == 0.043 percent bonus per point

90 crit points = 3.80% bonus == 0.042 percent bonus per point

101 crit points = 4.23% bonus == 0.041 percent bonus per point

131 crit points = 5.37% bonus == 0.040 percent bonus per point

202 crit points = 7.87% bonus == 0.038 percent bonus per point

246 crit points = 9.29% bonus == 0.037 percent bonus per point

290 crit points = 10.62% bonus == 0.036 percent bonus per point

324 crit points = 11.59% bonus == 0.035 percent bonus per point

354 crit points = 12.40% bonus == 0.035 percent bonus per point

440 crit points = 14.54% bonus == 0.033 percent bonus per point

464 crit points = 15.09% bonus == 0.032 percent bonus per point

536 crit points = 16.62% bonus == 0.031 percent bonus per point

[Astarica]

Wow, people really don't get this stuff.

 

Power adds a flat DPS number.

 

Crit adds a relatively flat DPS % to your total DPS since we're not dealing with any extreme ranges of crit values here.

 

Take a snapshot frozen in time you can compute something like say, your current DPS is 1000, so something that adds 1% of your DPS can be treated as something that adds 10 DPS. This is how you can even compare Power and Crit despite the one are fundamentally different modifiers.

 

To make the argument really simple let's say you can add enough Power for 10.5 DPS or enough Crit for 1% of DPS = 10 DPS. It's a no brainer to take the Power here.

 

The problem is that once you added enough Power you're no longer frozen in time. If you started out with 1000 DPS, then after adding 100 DPS, 1% of your DPS is now 11 DPS, not 10 DPS. This means crit now provides 11 DPS, while Power still only provides 10.5 DPS (it is a static modiifer). Now you should take the crit instead. In fact you should have added crit after adding 50 DPS worth of Power in this case.

 

Of course even without diminishing returns, crit effectiveness declines due to simple math (going from 99% crit to 100% crit is only about 0.5% DPS increase compared to 0% to 1% which is 1% DPS increase) so after you added enough crit, you'd be better off adding Power again.

 

For the achieveable values in the game right now one does not have to worry about getting enough Power to push Crit ahead again, though this completely ignores the fact that crits are extremely important versus strong healing.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Astarica

[Inncarnate]

I run a 7/31/3 build have mostly columi/rakata gear I've replaced certain mods from gear to keep my crit at 30% accuracy at 99% surge is currently at 73% and unsure what my power is as im posting at work lol with this build though i have little issues hitting 4.2 - 5k shock/discharge crits and if i run the 2/31/8 build have seen primary shock crit at 4.6 with the second one hitting 2.6 (7.4k) doesn't happen all the time but it is nice to see. I think all u need to do is increase ur surge and u will probably start seeing some nice numbers. If ur talking pvp though u have to take the other persons gear into account as it is hard to hit 4k against well geared ppl.

[Inncarnate]

I run a 7/31/3 build have mostly columi/rakata gear I've replaced certain mods from gear to keep my crit at 30% accuracy at 99% surge is currently at 73% and unsure what my power is as im posting at work lol with this build though i have little issues hitting 4.2 - 5k shock/discharge crits and if i run the 2/31/8 build have seen primary shock crit at 4.6 with the second one hitting 2.6 (7.4k) doesn't happen all the time but it is nice to see. I think all u need to do is increase ur surge and u will probably start seeing some nice numbers. If ur talking pvp though u have to take the other persons gear into account as it is hard to hit 4k against well geared ppl.

[Darth_Sookie]

I run a 7/31/3 build have mostly columi/rakata gear I've replaced certain mods from gear to keep my crit at 30% accuracy at 99% surge is currently at 73% and unsure what my power is as im posting at work lol with this build though i have little issues hitting 4.2 - 5k shock/discharge crits and if i run the 2/31/8 build have seen primary shock crit at 4.6 with the second one hitting 2.6 (7.4k) doesn't happen all the time but it is nice to see. I think all u need to do is increase ur surge and u will probably start seeing some nice numbers. If ur talking pvp though u have to take the other persons gear into account as it is hard to hit 4k against well geared ppl.

 

Did s 4.3k Maul yesterday on my level 27 Assassin with warzone adrenal popped.

[Exiled-Phoenix]

Wow, people really don't get this stuff.

 

Power adds a flat DPS number.

 

Crit adds a relatively flat DPS % to your total DPS since we're not dealing with any extreme ranges of crit values here.

 

Take a snapshot frozen in time you can compute something like say, your current DPS is 1000, so something that adds 1% of your DPS can be treated as something that adds 10 DPS. This is how you can even compare Power and Crit despite the one are fundamentally different modifiers.

 

To make the argument really simple let's say you can add enough Power for 10.5 DPS or enough Crit for 1% of DPS = 10 DPS. It's a no brainer to take the Power here.

 

The problem is that once you added enough Power you're no longer frozen in time. If you started out with 1000 DPS, then after adding 100 DPS, 1% of your DPS is now 11 DPS, not 10 DPS. This means crit now provides 11 DPS, while Power still only provides 10.5 DPS (it is a static modiifer). Now you should take the crit instead. In fact you should have added crit after adding 50 DPS worth of Power in this case.

 

Of course even without diminishing returns, crit effectiveness declines due to simple math (going from 99% crit to 100% crit is only about 0.5% DPS increase compared to 0% to 1% which is 1% DPS increase) so after you added enough crit, you'd be better off adding Power again.

 

For the achieveable values in the game right now one does not have to worry about getting enough Power to push Crit ahead again, though this completely ignores the fact that crits are extremely important versus strong healing.

 

Crit does not actually increase your dps... it just gives a higher chance to have critical hits.

Power increases all your attacks, thus increases your dps.

 

Either you dont know what you're talking about or you're confusing crit with surge.

[Payneintherear]

Crit does not actually increase your dps... it just gives a higher chance to have critical hits.

Power increases all your attacks, thus increases your dps.

 

Either you dont know what you're talking about or you're confusing crit with surge.

 

Please, stop posting.

 

PS.: Astarica, you're wrong as well. Crit chance suffers from the same "relative" diminishing returns as Power.

 

If your crit multiplier was 200% (150% base, I am using 200% just to make it easier to understand), going from 0% crit chance to 10% crit chance would increase your dps by 10%. Going from 10 to 20% crit chance, however, would only be a 9.09% of a dps increase.

Edited May 9, 2012 by Payneintherear

[obi_don]

95%-97% accuracy

20-25% crit

75% surge

rest power

 

I run around 700 power at the moment and 4.5k+ crits are quite common even on geared folk.

 

check the shadow forums which have better discussion.

[Skolops]

95%-97% accuracy

20-25% crit

75% surge

rest power

 

I run around 700 power at the moment and 4.5k+ crits are quite common even on geared folk.

 

check the shadow forums which have better discussion.

 

This is correct.

 

As for those saying crit increases your overall DPS, its simply true only to a certain point, and for two reasons.

 

First, you need to consider the frequency of a crit. Even with a 40% critical chance, the majority of your hits - 60% - are not crits. Boosting their attacks with power means that you're doing more damage all the time instead of just a portion of the time. Of course, critical hits are so good that this factor alone can't make power better after 25% crit.

 

However, you need to then factor in the fact that increasing your power also increases the strength your critical hits, so adding power makes the critical chance you already have better.

 

Of course, its necessary to balance these and to find the sweet spot where the benefits are maximized. Those of us that have done so find around 25 - 27% to be a good crit number. (Some say 20%, though I'd only go that far with the legacy operative buff to make sure I had the extra boost at all times).

[Payneintherear]

This is correct.

 

As for those saying crit increases your overall DPS, its simply true only to a certain point, and for two reasons.

 

First, you need to consider the frequency of a crit. Even with a 40% critical chance, the majority of your hits - 60% - are not crits. Boosting their attacks with power means that you're doing more damage all the time instead of just a portion of the time. Of course, critical hits are so good that this factor alone can't make power better after 25% crit.

 

However, you need to then factor in the fact that increasing your power also increases the strength your critical hits, so adding power makes the critical chance you already have better.

 

Of course, its necessary to balance these and to find the sweet spot where the benefits are maximized. Those of us that have done so find around 25 - 27% to be a good crit number. (Some say 20%, though I'd only go that far with the legacy operative buff to make sure I had the extra boost at all times).

 

Any deception/infiltration spec is running around with a 2.05-2.3 crit damage multiplier. Stacking Power instead of crit chance means you are not capitalizing on your talent points and innate stats.

 

Saying that higher crit chance does not directly increase dps is also absolutely wrong. It is simple math that your average hit includes crit chance, base damage and dps bonus. Increasing any of those, directly increases your average hit and saying "if you don't crit, higher crit chance is useless", makes me want to get electro shock therapy.

[Inncarnate]

Did s 4.3k Maul yesterday on my level 27 Assassin with warzone adrenal popped.

 

 

 

You need to reread my last line im talking lvl 50 pvp against well geared ppl battlemaster/war hero gear with 1100 expertise not 1-49 pvp where very few have expertise gear. Once u pvp/pve at 50 u will see 4k takes some decent gear pvp is alot harder to hit 4k unless there a fresh 50

[Skolops]

Any deception/infiltration spec is running around with a 2.05-2.3 crit damage multiplier. Stacking Power instead of crit chance means you are not capitalizing on your talent points and innate stats.

 

Saying that higher crit chance does not directly increase dps is also absolutely wrong. It is simple math that your average hit includes crit chance, base damage and dps bonus. Increasing any of those, directly increases your average hit and saying "if you don't crit, higher crit chance is useless", makes me want to get electro shock therapy.

 

Let's provide an example to illustrate the point, considering a basic deception rotation with average damage values.

 

A base rotation prior to crits would look something like this:

 

Voltaic Slash - 1500 Dmg

Voltaic Slash - 1500 Dmg

Shock - 2500 Dmg

Discharge - 2500 Dmg

Maul (Let's assume it procced) - 3000 Dmg

 

Now this is very basic, and is intended to be. It doesn't need to be perfect for the math to illustrate the point.

 

From experience gearing my Shadow, I can say that if we drop crit down to 25% and stack purely power, we can get those numbers up to something like this - again, before crits:

 

Voltaic Slash - 2000 Dmg

Voltaic Slash - 2000 Dmg

Shock - 3300 Dmg

Discharge - 3300 Dmg

Maul (Let's assume it procced) - 4000 Dmg

 

The crit stacking total adds up to 11,000, and the Power stacking to 14,600.

 

Now, if we go ahead and consider these over a large number of iterations, we don't need to worry which particular hits crit but we can just consider the percentage of damage that hits. It will statistically all come out in the wash. Let's consider 100 iterations.

 

1,100,000 damage with 40% of it on critical hits at 75% surge would work out to a total of 1,100,000 + 1,100,000(0.4)(0.75) = 1,430,000 damage total.

 

1,460,000 is already more than that (2% more), and when we consider the 25% critical hits we get 1,460,000 + 1,460,000(0.25)(0.75) = 1,733,750 - or 21% more.

 

Like I said, critical chance increases our total damage, but adding power does as well and the added power makes the critical chance we already have better. Another, perhaps simpler example - this time not using game numbers but just illustrating the mathematical concept:

 

A single hit of 100 damage critting is worth 175. If it crits twice, that's 350. If it crits 3 times, 525. 4 times, 700. We can increase damage in two ways: by increasing how often it crits, or by increasing how much each crit is worth. Say we have a 25% crit chance. We're theoretically going to do 475 damage over 4 hits. Now, imagine that we can increase either the crit chance to 50%, or the base hit damage to 125.

 

Increasing the crit chance to 50% gives us 550 damage.

 

Increasing the base damage to 125 gives us 593.

 

This is because not only is each hit doing more damage, but the crit is also doing more. Basically, you're overvaluing just how much of a difference a critical hit can make. Yes, they are really quite substantial increases in damage, but an extra 75% of damage 40% of the time is always going to work out to be less than an extra 35% damage 100% of the time, or, more realistically, less than an extra 20% damage 100% of the time combined with 35% more damage from the crits 25% of the time.

[Jorojus]

Does anyone know if there is a cap on the crit?

 

I am not rly a number/stats person but can anyone confirm me that its better to have main stat augments (f.e. operative +18 skill, +12 endurance) instead of the overkill augments (+18 power, +12 endurance) because of the extra crit you get with main skill modifier?

[LordbishopX]

Does anyone know if there is a cap on the crit?

 

I am not rly a number/stats person but can anyone confirm me that its better to have main stat augments (f.e. operative +18 skill, +12 endurance) instead of the overkill augments (+18 power, +12 endurance) because of the extra crit you get with main skill modifier?

 

Crit and surge both suffer from diminishing returns IE after a point the benefit given to dps is less and less and yes both have a hard and softcap ie the pt at which putting pts in become less beneficial and the hard cap where more pts does zip.

I been a surge -> crit -> power -> prim stat which states take each in order to its soft cap I do love power.....