Legacy has been a failure

[Thuggy]

Bioware has shown a reasonable amount of knowledge concerning how many credits they expect characters to have as they level up. Between class and crew skills, character weath gain levelling up is very low. Once a character starts running dailies that changes. Everyday activities are going to get players the credits pay for perks, in game, that most MMOs would be selling through real world microtransactions. The fact that Bioware has managed to show restraint in not requiring cold hard cash for these perk is out of character for them.

 

That's somewhat self-fulfilling. Before legacy launched, my credit gain was considerably lower as I was not compelled to grind out dailies, now that I need considerably more money to get legacy perks, I'm actually doing more dailies and generating more credits.

 

For me, Time is more valuable than money...I would personally much prefer dropping 5 bucks to unlock certain legacy perks than having to spend 2-3 hours/day for a week to earn enough in-game credits to accomplish the same thing. It's these types of systems that allow RMT to thrive.

[Urael]

That's somewhat self-fulfilling. Before legacy launched, my credit gain was considerably lower as I was not compelled to grind out dailies, now that I need considerably more money to get legacy perks, I'm actually doing more dailies and generating more credits.

 

For me, Time is more valuable than money...I would personally much prefer dropping 5 bucks to unlock certain legacy perks than having to spend 2-3 hours/day for a week to earn enough in-game credits to accomplish the same thing. It's these types of systems that allow RMT to thrive.

 

/agree time is more valuable.

 

However,

 

while I agree that it would prolly be more of an incentive to me to just pay cash for some of the things in legacy, I would caution against wishing for micro transactions, for fear of becomeing pay to win. Not that anything in legacy is really all the unbalancing or skews combat but again caution in tempting BW to go the way of Star Trek Online.

[Bigdaddygarlic]

Legacy was a heavily hyped feature going into launch, and then into 1.2. It was supposed to help balance out factions and encourage people to play alts which would increase playing time and content. Neither of those haar come to pass. Faction imbalance is stool add bad as ever (just with fewer players overall for each faction), and players are leaving the game out of boredom rather than roll another alt.

 

Many of the legacy unlocks cost a prohibitive amount of money even with the legacy level necessary to unlock them, while other legacy unlocks, such as races, are easily bought without the need for any legacy level. What should be a nice perk for players invested in the game simply becomes another money sink with no real benefit.

 

The real failure of legacy is that it is one of the primary reasons we don't have server transfers or mergers already, because BW has to deal with changing legacy names when those names are already taken.

 

I'm sure some people like legacy, but can anyone really say its been worth the time and effort, much less the hype, BW had put into the system?

 

The high cost for legacy is how its suppose to be its suppose to take you time to unlock.

And on the factions issue people should play what they like to play i totally disagree on trying to get people to play

the other side with rewards. Its nothing wrong with playing both sides but you should not feel Forced to.

BTW I like the legacy system but it could use alittle work. And to be fair no it was not worth the hype!

Edited May 4, 2012 by Bigdaddygarlic

[Brimmer]

Personally I love everything about the legacy system except the fact it has little to do with the legacy level and more to do with credits.

 

Besides that the legacy system is perfect.

[Urael]

The high cost for legacy is how its suppose to be its suppose to take you time to unlock.And on the factions issue people should play what they like to play i totally disagree on trying to get people to play

the side with rewards. Its nothing wrong with playing both sides but you should not feel Forced to.

BTW I like the legacy system but it could use alittle work.

 

But, it's taking BOTH time AND high cost. There have been some that have suggested a "sliding scale" (e.g. higher you level legacy the lower the prices become).

 

I support the sliding scale option if the prices are not going to be lowered.

 

AND at least bind on legacy for all.

[Thuggy]

/agree time is more valuable.

 

However,

 

while I agree that it would prolly be more of an incentive to me to just pay cash for some of the things in legacy, I would caution against wishing for micro transactions, for fear of becomeing pay to win. Not that anything in legacy is really all the unbalancing or skews combat but again caution in tempting BW to go the way of Star Trek Online.

I agree, MTs require a very very delicate balance....especially on a game like SWTOR that's operating on a subscription model. I would definitely be suspicious if Legacy is leveraged to generate supplemental revenue, even for features that don't qualify as pay to win.

 

My point was largely to highlight, that many of the perks from legacy...largely designed for the purposes of convenience to veteran / active players, are in actuality more inconvenient to access, than if you were to ignore them.

[Urael]

I agree, MTs require a very very delicate balance....especially on a game like SWTOR that's operating on a subscription model. I would definitely be suspicious if Legacy is leveraged to generate supplemental revenue, even for features that don't qualify as pay to win.

 

My point was largely to highlight, that many of the perks from legacy...largely designed for the purposes of convenience to veteran / active players, are in actuality more inconvenient to access, than if you were to ignore them.

 

/agree with the vet/active comment.

 

I like the idea I have read about binding price of legacy options to legacy level in a sliding scale fashion. The higher your legacy level ( e.g. the more you play ) the lower the cost of the legacy perks. This way there is a direct correlation between time played and reward without high cost vs. time played AND high cost.

Edited May 4, 2012 by Urael

[NDiggy]

The high cost for legacy is how its suppose to be its suppose to take you time to unlock.

And on the factions issue people should play what they like to play i totally disagree on trying to get people to play

the other side with rewards. Its nothing wrong with playing both sides but you should not feel Forced to.

BTW I like the legacy system but it could use alittle work. And to be fair no it was not worth the hype!

 

As the poster above states, there is both a high cost and a time investment. Legacy was supposed to be a reward for exploring other parts of the game and experiencing the content that other class/faction story lines have to offer. The more of the game you experience, the higher your legacy, the bigger the reward. Instead we got another credit sink, with what looks like more coming in the future.

 

And yes, legacy was mentioned at the guild summit as being part of their solution for solving faction balance issues. This was stated in one of the Q & A's at the Guild Summit back at the beginning of March:

 

- Balancing factions on servers: Legacy part of resolving that. also cooler outfits for endgame Republic progression

 

http://toroz.com.au/2012/03/swtor-guild-summit-and-the-rest/

[Balrizangor]

/agree with the vet/active comment.

 

I like the idea I have read about binding price of legacy options to legacy level in a sliding scale fashion. The higher your legacy level ( e.g. the more you play ) the lower the cost of the legacy perks. This way there is a direct correlation between time played and reward without high cost vs. time played AND high cost.

 

This idea is a really good one.

 

There are a couple things I wouldn't mind having but not at 1.5-5 mil a pop, this means I'll never have them because I am not going to spend that kind of cash on them. Now, if the prices scaled with Legacy level so they went down like 1/10th per 5 levels of legacy, so that at 50th lvl legacy they are free, that would be very sweet

[Glower]

Legacy...

 

I really dig 2 features:

• Fully self-buffed when I hit chapter 2 on 4 classes.
  
• Cross-faction mail between my characters.
  

 

The rest of it I really don't give a flying banana about, especially the insanely high prices for all of the credit-only unlocks.

 

Failure? I don't know about that, but it's probably not compelling enough for the effort that went into creating it. Hopefully BioWare has more interesting stuff on the way or they'll get more realistic on the prices.

 

^this

[Bigdaddygarlic]

But, it's taking BOTH time AND high cost. There have been some that have suggested a "sliding scale" (e.g. higher you level legacy the lower the prices become).

 

I support the sliding scale option if the prices are not going to be lowered.

 

AND at least bind on legacy for all.

 

I did say it needed work and it is bind on legacy for all its just the gear that is not all the perks are.

We were lead to believe that the perks would be free of cost at a certain legacy lvl I would like to see that implemented if it is i can't tell but don't think it is. oh where were we lead to believe this you say at the guild summit.

Edited May 4, 2012 by Bigdaddygarlic

[mjohnsonfhk]

i love the 5 million credit galactic trade kiosk that doesnt work

[Urael]

I did say it needed work and it is bind on legacy for all its just the gear that is not all the perks are.We were lead to believe that the perks would be free of cost at a certain legacy lvl I would like to see that implemented if it is i can't tell but don't think it is.

 

The Future 1.3 perks may not be. Those may be per character. Anyone have source?

[Balrizangor]

I did say it needed work and it is bind on legacy for all its just the gear that is not all the perks are.

We were lead to believe that the perks would be free of cost at a certain legacy lvl I would like to see that implemented if it is i can't tell but don't think it is.

 

 

They actually said some would be based only on legacy level, some would have a cost only and some would be a combination of them both. I just didn't think they meant millions of credits

[Brimmer]

But, it's taking BOTH time AND high cost. There have been some that have suggested a "sliding scale" (e.g. higher you level legacy the lower the prices become).

 

I support the sliding scale option if the prices are not going to be lowered.

 

AND at least bind on legacy for all.

 

I like this idea

[Bigdaddygarlic]

They actually said some would be based only on legacy level, some would have a cost only and some would be a combination of them both. I just didn't think they meant millions of credits

 

I totally missed the cost only part but i think thats a terrible idea.

[Bigdaddygarlic]

As the poster above states, there is both a high cost and a time investment. Legacy was supposed to be a reward for exploring other parts of the game and experiencing the content that other class/faction story lines have to offer. The more of the game you experience, the higher your legacy, the bigger the reward. Instead we got another credit sink, with what looks like more coming in the future.

 

And yes, legacy was mentioned at the guild summit as being part of their solution for solving faction balance issues. This was stated in one of the Q & A's at the Guild Summit back at the beginning of March:

 

 

 

http://toroz.com.au/2012/03/swtor-guild-summit-and-the-rest/

 

what you say is true i never said it wasn't I said i disagree with it trying to force someone to play a side they don't want to is just wrong! Well thats just my opinion anyway.

[McCamper]

How can the upcoming Legacy unlocks in 1.3 be called "Legacy Unlocks" ? They are mainly for the one character not the whole "legacy".

If their for only the individual character are they adding a different section to the legacy list? Like, Character Unlocks or something.

[djcreature]

A couple things I see wrong with what people are saying, if said by others I'm sorry, but 83 pages of whinning gets annoying.

People blaming BW for class imbalance shows your lower intelligence. It's a player created issue, BW can do absolutely nothing about that short of banning people from making certain classes on certain servers.

 

About the account wide legacy thing. I am 100% against this. I was upset to find that I couldn't get multiple last names for all my toons on one server, if I had to have the same name on every server I go to it would be horrible.

 

When people say they are not finished with the legacy thing, they don't mean they put out an unfinished piece of work. It's called slow release. Most games do this, like releasing half of a raid at first so that those power guilds don't clear everything in 2 days. It's meant so that not everything is released at the same time so that there is something to look forward to or improve on BW's part.

Can't remember where I read this, but like someone said in another thread.

If people are given a magic hat to give them their ultimate gaming experience they would complain about the color of the hat.

[GRINnBARRETT]

I'm going to disagree. My reason is that you can't accurately judge something before the feature is fully implemented. It's like saying you fail as a person when you've just turned 6 years old. Too many people forget this game is a tad over 4 months old (not counting EA). As gamers, we consume content faster now than ever before. No developer (even Trion) can implement content & features as fast as the subscribers demand it.

 

Many would come to the conclusion that rated WZs were a failure if they had been implemented without cross-server queuing. BW smartly waited before releasing them. I'm not sure why they didn't do the same with Legacy but my guess is that it isn't game breaking & the community/EA demanded a content release.

 

So IMO, the verdict is still out until I see the next wave of additions.

[Xarielle]

My issues with Legacy...

 

1. It's bound to server and not account which means the more investment you put into Legacy the harder it is to abandon (Not that it has any real benefits apart from the buffs.) The only thing about legacy that should be server bound is your Legacy name.

 

2. Legacy unlocks are too expensive, everything that requires a high legacy level and thus time investment also requires a high amount of credits. I can see there are trying to remove some of the credits from the economy but based on their own metrics it makes the legacy unlocks inaccessible to a majority of the user base. This gives me the impression that these unlocks are targeted specifically at the people who can afford them. Overall a bad design choice because people get frustrated by seeing a carrot there they can never reach.

 

3. Family Tree is useless. Without the ability to interact with other players or characters in your family tree it really serves no point.

 

4. The 4 Imperial legacy skill unlocks are better than the Republic unlocks. Not that it matters too much but it's interesting to not that the Inquisitor level 50 unlock is the only unlock that's not a baseline skill (It's a Sorcerer ability not an Inquisitor.) overall I don't care that much about this issue in particular but people going after unlocks are more likely to go after the Imperial ones which can potentially worsen the population imbalance. It would have been better if the legacy skills would summon 1 of your characters during the herioc moment who was proportionately stronger than your regular companions.

 

5. Inheritance/Birthright gear. Why does this exist? It's better than your average piece of gear for the appropriate level but the time you spend at the level doesn't justify the cost. Some pieces cost as much as 200 Daily Commendations. I'm really confused about the purpose of this gear. It doesn't scale, it doesn't give any meaningful bonuses or aid your leveling experience by alot since it's so easy to begin with and the amount of time it takes to farm your alt a full set you can level to 50 with no trouble at all. Overall useless. The custom Legacy items apart from the Bracers and Belts are equally useless, they need to have Augments slots, because to spend over a 100k on a piece of armor and then another 100k to remove the mods on a piece of endgame armor to put it into a piece of armor that doesn't have an augment slot seems like a waste.

 

Apart from buffs legacy feels like fluff. It doesn't offer anything meaningful for the time investment. The Inheritance and Birthright gear needs to be re-evaluated.

[Kalfear]

Thought I posted in this thread? (so hard to tell with so many copy threads)

 

I hold TOR to the fire as much as anyone (and more then those in denial that say game perfect) but the Legacy really doesnt bother me and in many ways I really like it.

 

Now im Legacy lvl 8 and broke broke broke, so im not going to be paying 1-2-3-100 million any time soon for the offered skills. Im currently doing 5 crafts and will most likely pick up Symcweaving soon as well for a alt (once I get 1 of each class to act 2 so I get the buffs (love that part of legacy).

 

What I like about Legacy system is, its not given away mindlessly. You actually have to work at obtaining the different abilities and skills.

 

Personally I think rate we get Legacy XP is how we should be leveling as well after level 20.

 

I like that it takes awhile to raise your legacy levels and I like that the skills and abilities and fluff are so costly.

 

Not everyone will get them and that creates seperation and uniqueness between characters.

 

The number 1 plauge brought into the MMORPG genre by WOW was SIMPLE EASY BORING MODE. Everything is to simple and easy to get since WOW hit the internet. The challenge is gone. You blink your at end game, blink again and everyone has everything, no one is different, no one is special.

 

Course I never faulted the guy in EQ for having the flame brand sword just because I didnt.

I never faulted the guy in DAoC for having the Princess sword from Darkness Falls

I never faulted the guy in original NWN (circa 1991-97) for having a Ecloak just because I didnt.

 

Everyone doesnt have to have every skill, every ability, every everything.

 

Put me as a fan of the Legacy system (despite being untested and 4 months late to launch) and I really hope in expansions they fouce on expanding the legacy systems rather then level limits (or if they do expand levels they make the curve far more like the Legacy curve and far less like the 1-50 curve that exists now.

 

LOTS to be displeased about in this game, Legacy isnt one of them. Least not for me!

[Lumenadducere]

My issues with Legacy...

 

1. It's bound to server and not account which means the more investment you put into Legacy the harder it is to abandon (Not that it has any real benefits apart from the buffs.) The only thing about legacy that should be server bound is your Legacy name.

 

2. Legacy unlocks are too expensive, everything that requires a high legacy level and thus time investment also requires a high amount of credits. I can see there are trying to remove some of the credits from the economy but based on their own metrics it makes the legacy unlocks inaccessible to a majority of the user base. This gives me the impression that these unlocks are targeted specifically at the people who can afford them. Overall a bad design choice because people get frustrated by seeing a carrot there they can never reach.

 

3. Family Tree is useless. Without the ability to interact with other players or characters in your family tree it really serves no point.

 

4. The 4 Imperial legacy skill unlocks are better than the Republic unlocks. Not that it matters too much but it's interesting to not that the Inquisitor level 50 unlock is the only unlock that's not a baseline skill (It's a Sorcerer ability not an Inquisitor.) overall I don't care that much about this issue in particular but people going after unlocks are more likely to go after the Imperial ones which can potentially worsen the population imbalance. It would have been better if the legacy skills would summon 1 of your characters during the herioc moment who was proportionately stronger than your regular companions.

 

5. Inheritance/Birthright gear. Why does this exist? It's better than your average piece of gear for the appropriate level but the time you spend at the level doesn't justify the cost. Some pieces cost as much as 200 Daily Commendations. I'm really confused about the purpose of this gear. It doesn't scale, it doesn't give any meaningful bonuses or aid your leveling experience by alot since it's so easy to begin with and the amount of time it takes to farm your alt a full set you can level to 50 with no trouble at all. Overall useless. The custom Legacy items apart from the Bracers and Belts are equally useless, they need to have Augments slots, because to spend over a 100k on a piece of armor and then another 100k to remove the mods on a piece of endgame armor to put it into a piece of armor that doesn't have an augment slot seems like a waste.

 

Apart from buffs legacy feels like fluff. It doesn't offer anything meaningful for the time investment. The Inheritance and Birthright gear needs to be re-evaluated.

 

I unfortunately have to say that I agree with this, particularly 2-5. The other "perks" are simply too expensive for the benefit that they provide, and while I understand that a select few have a very high amount of credits, many more players do not. And while I personally can afford most of what looks even remotely interesting, I'm not going to spend 100k + credits just to unlock something.

 

The inheritance/birthright gear is unfortunately also useless given what the cost of obtaining each piece is. The daily comms are much better spent on the relics and/or implants or earpieces, and if someone somehow already has all of those then I'm a little unsure why they'd bother continuing to do dailies. Does anyone actually do dailies just to get the gear for their alts? Especially when you can provide better things through crafting. They also don't last at all because they're not moddable and you outlevel them really quickly.

 

I'm also extremely disappointed that the 1.3 unlocks are character-only. It remains to be seen how much it will cost to get everything, but if they keep up the current trend then it's not looking good. It's a shame, as I was looking forward to taking more characters, but without the unlocks I'm going to have to repeat all the quests I've already done 3+ times now and I can't bring myself to slog through that again.

[FigeroMentel]

Speak for yourself - I'm a fan of legacy, even in its raw form. Most of my guild likes it. These forums are nothing but bashers.

[NDiggy]

A couple things I see wrong with what people are saying, if said by others I'm sorry, but 83 pages of whinning gets annoying.

People blaming BW for class imbalance shows your lower intelligence. It's a player created issue, BW can do absolutely nothing about that short of banning people from making certain classes on certain servers.

 

About the account wide legacy thing. I am 100% against this. I was upset to find that I couldn't get multiple last names for all my toons on one server, if I had to have the same name on every server I go to it would be horrible.

 

When people say they are not finished with the legacy thing, they don't mean they put out an unfinished piece of work. It's called slow release. Most games do this, like releasing half of a raid at first so that those power guilds don't clear everything in 2 days. It's meant so that not everything is released at the same time so that there is something to look forward to or improve on BW's part.

Can't remember where I read this, but like someone said in another thread.

If people are given a magic hat to give them their ultimate gaming experience they would complain about the color of the hat.

 

No one in this thread has said anything about class imbalance...