Enough is enough

[Slugkeg]

Heaven forbid encounters take an actual team effort.

[JerokTalram]

Why don't you have someone either CC the stunning mob or interrupt him and then burn it down?

 

Seems pretty straight forward to me.

 

Maybe because most champion level bosses can't be CC'd or stunned. Elite and under can be though.

[Merwanor]

The difference between tanking in SWTOR and other games like WoW.... yes I also hate bringing it up....

Is that in this game I actually have to use my taunting skills, I can't even recall when I needed to use any aoe taunts in WoW... But without them I have no chance of holding threat against massive damage from classes like the Trooper.

 

I have no experience with Trooper or BH tanking, but after my experience with my JK tank, I do believe it must be much, much easier to tank. As mobs really do not want to make it easy for melee characters to tank, the sad part is that when they do make tanking a challenging thing to do. Then there will be a hugh lack of people playing tanks... As what I see the most is people looking for tanks for flashpoints.

[EdratLightindark]

This game hates melee classes. Way to many stuns/knockbacks/roots. Moreso in PVP.

[GnatB]

Still thinking about the many smugglers who couldn't do their class quest because the mob kept healing itself to full.. With three interrupts.. how the hell can't one not manage to stop that? Well, because they didn't use them!

 

OTish, but In the scoundrels defense, (Don't think I've gotten to that point on my own scoundrel) Quite a few of them are playing healers, and as such in hard fights aren't targetting the enemy much/at all. Previous to Target of Target, that could make it difficult to know your foe was getting ready/using an ability that needed interrupting. (and in most cases, you don't need to worry about it) I know I fell prey to that while playing my consular. (Though, after my companion got 1 shot, then I got 1 shot, I paid far more attention to what the enemy was doing the 2nd time through so I'd be able to interrupt him)

 

(also, some may not realize that abilities that stun/hold also work as interrupts. Pretty sure some older MMO's you'd still finish whatever action you were currently taking unless the skill specifically said it interrupted)

[Monoth]

Challenge is one thing. Threat wipes every 6 seconds is not challenge. It is a mindless way of increasing difficulty at the sacrifice of good game play.

 

Only Mob that has no agggro table is the bosses at the end..... Everything else is pretty much tank and spank, if your losing aggro its because your DPS'ers are hitting to hard....

 

Anyways I like that they give NPC's more abilities, it gets boring otherwise....

[Kalfear]

a challenging game = a good game.

 

exactly

 

Sad part is, this game isnt challenging even with those mechanics

 

Could you imagine the OP outrage if it was set higher then easy side of easy difficult setting?

[flyersfan]

I simply hate being measured by my taunt cooldown because no matter how much threat I generate, they drop threat and charge a random person more often then I can taunt.

 

Sounds like you're a Guardian/Juggernaut. I don't have this problem with my Shadow.

[Acherom]

I remember running this at fresh 50, as a Sorc healer...

 

We had a Jug tank who would initiate combat with a ranged attack, get thrown waaaaaaay away by a screamer; and Force Leap in; then get threat up. After the second knock back; we had generally been able to re-position to a spot where he was just tossed against a wall; and didn't actually go anywhere.

 

The Mercs are way more annoying to deal with... especially when the DPS isn't paying attention. -.-

 

"Interrupt the channel."

...

"Interrupt the Merc."

...

"Guys?"

*DPS dies*

'*** no healz?'

"I'm still CC'd dumb-@#&, next time interrupt the Merc."

 

Ahh... good times actually. Frustrating as all get out the first run, but after they caught on it was much better.

[Andryah]

Challenge is one thing. Threat wipes every 6 seconds is not challenge. It is a mindless way of increasing difficulty at the sacrifice of good game play.

 

Keeps you on your toes, doesn't it.

 

Tell you what, you and 3 of your buddies go out to a local bar and pick a fight. See how in real life threat wipes happen in a bar fight? Yep. And they fight dirty too in a bar fight right? Yep.

 

Personally, I'm glad that you cannot hamster thump the keyboard through the mobs.

[Mustelidaen]

Keeps you on your toes, doesn't it.

 

Tell you what, you and 3 of your buddies go out to a local bar and pick a fight. See how in real life threat wipes happen in a bar fight? Yep. And they fight dirty too in a bar fight right? Yep.

 

Personally, I'm glad that you cannot hamster thump the keyboard through the mobs.

 

I had one friend tell me Kaon HM was hard or impossible, another tell me it was easy. Both are good players...

 

It should be obvious what's going on here--the instance is a joke on tanks who don't have AOE mob abilities, like myself, a Sith Jugg. A Powertech tank can simply play hamster thump and regain aggro on whole mobs, so who cares about the aggro drop?

 

For the designers to build an instance which effectively excludes one tank class is unfair, but what can you do?

[Thundergulch]

I had one friend tell me Kaon HM was hard or impossible, another tell me it was easy. Both are good players...

 

It should be obvious what's going on here--the instance is a joke on tanks who don't have AOE mob abilities, like myself, a Sith Jugg. A Powertech tank can simply play hamster thump and regain aggro on whole mobs, so who cares about the aggro drop?

 

For the designers to build an instance which effectively excludes one tank class is unfair, but what can you do?

 

It's not hard at all, just did it again last night, didn't wipe one time, we had a Jugg tank, Sorc healer and 2 Marauders for dps.

[Mustelidaen]

It's not hard at all, just did it again last night, didn't wipe one time, we had a Jugg tank, Sorc healer and 2 Marauders for dps.

 

A few posts ago you said the mechanics of this instance made you not want to do it at all.

[Thundergulch]

A few posts ago you said the mechanics of this instance made you not want to do it at all.

 

No, I never mentioned this instance at all.

Just because KB's irritate me and make me not WANT to do them, doesn't mean they are hard or impossible.

KB's are annoying, that's it.

[Kaphik]

Kaon hard mode is one of the easiest flashpoints to do, it's barely more difficult than the normal mode version and much more valuable to run because the gear from normal is garbage. Every trash mob in that flashpoint can be CCd, and they should be if your group is having a hard time. The mercenaries, the ones that do the channeled CC have to be controlled.

 

The instance is a measure of teamwork and player skill. If your group cannot, or refuses to use your CC abilities, interrupts and focus fire, you are definitely not ready for other hard modes or operations.

[oJebuso]

waaaah I cant just run into a pack of mobs and spam aoe wotlk style waaaah

[Mustelidaen]

Kaon hard mode is one of the easiest flashpoints to do, it's barely more difficult than the normal mode version and much more valuable to run because the gear from normal is garbage. Every trash mob in that flashpoint can be CCd, and they should be if your group is having a hard time. The mercenaries, the ones that do the channeled CC have to be controlled.

 

The instance is a measure of teamwork and player skill. If your group cannot, or refuses to use your CC abilities, interrupts and focus fire, you are definitely not ready for other hard modes or operations.

 

I would agree with that. On my server the pop is so low (and lazy) it's a chore to get a group going for BT HM...

Edited May 2, 2012 by Mustelidaen
MIssed point

[Mustelidaen]

waaaah I cant just run into a pack of mobs and spam aoe wotlk style waaaah

 

That's not true. Play a Powertech.

[Jdcook]

I somewhat agree, I think knockbacks are heavily overused. Especially the End of Thorvix Heroic 4. I do that quest once a week to complete the weekly. If I don't need it for the weekly then I just avoid it. I see people looking for tanks there everyday when I go. But the place is so annoying for a juggernaut its not worth my time.

 

I'm not against knockbacks in general, but I don't want to get thrown around the entire time either.

[GalacticKegger]

There is no reason for this many pve mobs to have knock-backs, stuns, and threat wipes.

 

Threat wipes: Stop making these happen so often. This is ridiculous. There are mobs in hm kaon that drop threat every 5-6 seconds. This is unacceptable. Threat drops are a mechanic to keep tanks awake and give us a reason to taunt. Not to have a gold mob be un-tankable. Tanks should not be measured by the length of their taunt cool-down.

I felt the same thing in WoW when warrior tanks shifted from pure aggro whore to a more dps-based aggro table. What it took was cooperation from the DPS types to cool their jets. Situational awareness and discipline fixes this. Just means the party has to treat these phases like it's the start of the fight and chill until the tank gets aggro - regardless of their frequency.

Knock-backs: all 3 tanks are melee. A large number of the mobs are ranged. It is not fun to try to tank a commando in EC trash by running up, hitting it once, getting knocked back and repeat. This is simply a frustrating mechanic that is overly used.

I actually don't mind being knocked around. Putting my back to a wall or large object helps if there's one around. I survey the field and look for them before the fight ever starts. Tanks are supposed to steer the enemy chess pieces around to misdirect a mob's directional attacks (think HS's Kreshan) as well as aid in the dps efforts. If I have to constantly re-establish position, that just means I get to play a tank instead of a meat shield statue. Besides, to me a mob's ability to dish out the same pita stuff that characters do simply evens things out a bit.

Stuns: Another mechanics being overused. Chain stunned tanks that are are cced for 10-15 seconds at a time is insane. I get stunned, i pop my cd to break it only to be stunned twice more by the rest of the pack.

Again, more party CCs at the expense of faster dps to go with interrupts & impairment breaks like Unleash could help. I will insist on it if that's what's happening to our party. If that means the fight takes a few minutes longer, so be it. As the team's tank & leader, I consider players who lack the patience to work in concert with other players (i.e. plays well with others) to be expendable. But that's just me. Edited May 3, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Binaris]

I'm sorry you lost me when you failed to comprehend what a threat wipe is. This is not losing threat. this is a complete wipe of the table and has nothing to do with threat generation.

 

As far as knock-backs. Placing your back against a wall is not an option most of the time since it is a range mob that usually does it.

 

I'm not saying these mechanics should not be used. I'm saying that devs are abusing these simple yet annoying mechanics on trash. Make me have to interrupt. Make me have to stay out of fire. But do not make me be a ping pong ball.

Edited May 2, 2012 by Binaris

[Deyjarl]

Exactly ... I am lost though, are you saying you should be able to tank without doing anything and that the burden of each encounter should solely rest on the healers to keep you alive while you have to do nothing but stand there?

 

If so, stop being lazy.

 

This. Sad some tanks have this attitude.