Subatomix Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 In any game or contest ... When you are awarded a statistical advantage over another player... To create an unequal playing field... No matter what the reason... That's called a handicap. Call it what it is folks. Jedi should speak the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AltruisticRage Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 It is why my PvP days in SW are numbered by how many days it takes another game to come out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LancelotOC Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Maybe you are on to something. What if as you raised in valor rank you actually lost stats? This way those with more experiance actually had weaker toons teh more they played. This would definantly give new players a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larzi Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Holy cow, is this another post saying its not fair because you did not buy your recuirt gear, save WZ comms and get into BM? Do you wear what you think looks like "Cool" looking PvE gear into WZs with 200-500 expertise? You have the same tools at your finger tips as everyone else, why is it most people have no issues in PvP? Ohhhh, thats right, because you want everything handed to you, gotcha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzoong Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 In any game or contest ... When you are awarded a statistical advantage over another player... To create an unequal playing field... No matter what the reason... That's called a handicap. Call it what it is folks. Jedi should speak the truth. Spot on, access to all gear for everyone as soon as they ding lvl50, gear acquired this way will only be usable in wz-pvp. Everyone will have the same tools this way and no handicap whatsoever, and pve will not be affected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AltruisticRage Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Maybe you are on to something. What if as you raised in valor rank you actually lost stats? This way those with more experiance actually had weaker toons teh more they played. This would definantly give new players a chance. Or, you know, you could just design the game where people who choose to PvP are placed in a system where everyone is equal and no one has any sort of gear advantage nor is any sort of grind required to be competitive. It is a hard concept to comprehend, I know, because it takes the grind out of the game. It does mean you may have to enjoy PvPing for the fun of it as opposed to getting another piece of gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sporticus Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) Maybe you are on to something. What if as you raised in valor rank you actually lost stats? This way those with more experiance actually had weaker toons teh more they played. This would definantly give new players a chance. Hopefully you are trolling here, and don't realistically think that any game in the known universe would survive with this mechanic in place. I wouldn't be totally opposed to equal gear, but without some sort of progression, ANY aspect of an MMO is going to flounder and die. Maybe just cooler graphics for gear as you PvP, or unique mounts, titles, etc. The question you have to ask is, once everyone is in the same gear, what will your solution to class balance be? Give every class the exact same skills? Edited May 2, 2012 by Sporticus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golren Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 I don't think you understand what handicaps (in sports) mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComeAndSee Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) I don't get this. You win Warzones by doing objectives. Objectives don't require gear. You got inc? Call inc. You need help guarding something? Call for help. You have the ball and are at 10% hp? Throw it. Somebody else has the ball? Get ahead of them. If you think gear has anything to do with using your brain than I pity you. This isn't WoW arenas where the objective is team death match. I mean, I added to friend and played with somebody last night I never saw before. They were half-recruit/half BM. The reason? I watched that one Vanguard bounce back and forth in Voidstar solo-preventing us from capping the doors. We couldn't stop him because he was talented for 8s CC immunity and 30% run speed. Also, he was annoying me to death by hovering on me. Those are the players that stand out and shows that gear doesn't mean ****. Edited May 2, 2012 by ComeAndSee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Spot on, access to all gear for everyone as soon as they ding lvl50, gear acquired this way will only be usable in wz-pvp. Everyone will have the same tools this way and no handicap whatsoever, and pve will not be affected. What are you talking about. The gear is accesable to everyone now. Recruit gear right at 50, No valor requirement for BM gear and can be purchased with WZ comms. I mean honestly just buy recruit gear, enter a warzone get one (1) medal and just afk in the corner and reap the benefits of the crazy rewards for a loss. Based on the old system for gear to the new one they have it is crazy/stupid easy to get gear. I bet you did not have to endure what I had to go threw with the wonderful RNG system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzoong Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 What are you talking about. The gear is accesable to everyone now. Recruit gear right at 50, No valor requirement for BM gear and can be purchased with WZ comms. I mean honestly just buy recruit gear, enter a warzone get one (1) medal and just afk in the corner and reap the benefits of the crazy rewards for a loss. Based on the old system for gear to the new one they have it is crazy/stupid easy to get gear. I bet you did not have to endure what I had to go threw with the wonderful RNG system. I was among the first players on my server to have full BM gear, I got it and my valor ranks "the hard way" by playing a lot of warzones (and I MEAN A LOT when I say this). That does not mean I can not support a level playing field with new players, you are right the 1.2 system is a step into the right direction and gear is a lot easier to get for pvp but I support taking the next step in that direction. Also attacking me 1v1 with the pvp gear I now have while using only recruit gear will kill you, it would be suicide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDiggler Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 go play call of duty then, because mmorpgs have always been about character development and not button skills or aim. MMORPGS are about building a great toon that is powerful, but you guys wouldn't know thtat cuz bioware has blurred the lines by mxing the mmorpg with FPS gamemodes and now all the FPS crowd wants to come in and change mmorpgs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 I was among the first players on my server to have full BM gear, I got it and my valor ranks "the hard way" by playing a lot of warzones (and I MEAN A LOT when I say this). That does not mean I can not support a level playing field with new players, you are right the 1.2 system is a step into the right direction and gear is a lot easier to get for pvp but I support taking the next step in that direction. Also attacking me 1v1 with the pvp gear I now have while using only recruit gear will kill you, it would be suicide. I am with you that I want a level playing field. In games where there are different tiers of gear there will for the most part always be someone with better gear. The only way to make it level is to revamp the whole system. I got most of my gear threw a horrible rng system and welcomed the changes they made. Also yes attacked me in full recruit gear and you will get destroyed. I am not going to say "I had to deal with 50's stomping me when I was a 30 and you should to". I just think for now its the best they can do. I do not want them changing the gear system every few months. PvP as a whole is just in shambles it seems and I dont think there its something that can be easily fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sporticus Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 What are you talking about. The gear is accesable to everyone now. Recruit gear right at 50, No valor requirement for BM gear and can be purchased with WZ comms. I mean honestly just buy recruit gear, enter a warzone get one (1) medal and just afk in the corner and reap the benefits of the crazy rewards for a loss. Based on the old system for gear to the new one they have it is crazy/stupid easy to get gear. I bet you did not have to endure what I had to go threw with the wonderful RNG system. Imagine if any of these players had to go form 60 to 74 or so before they managed to get a full BM set... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkfinsix Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Maybe you are on to something. What if as you raised in valor rank you actually lost stats? This way those with more experiance actually had weaker toons teh more they played. This would definantly give new players a chance. This is what should happen but never will.... I know when i play Street fighter on the PS3 vs my friends, I handicap myself to 25% health....if i don't they stop playing, none of them are hard core street fighter fans, so they will only play as long as they are having fun and being stomped non stop isn't fun....same thing happens to MMO gear based pvp...you get most of the people stop PVPing once the gear gap is to large and the top dogs feed off fresh meat and tell them to L2P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subatomix Posted May 2, 2012 Author Share Posted May 2, 2012 Please note, I wasn't necessarily saying that a handicap is a bad thing. I was just calling it what it is. I love to hear people talk about "gear" as if it were real. It's not. It's a modifier to a real time system of networked digital user input that's cloaked in some pretty 3D rendering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahhmyface Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) Give me a break. You had the same chance to get gear as everyone else. Is it unfair that I lose a fight if let him bash me to 50% and then start attacking? Is his full hp a "handicap"? No, I'm an idiot for letting him get ahead. Stop pretending the game starts and ends with the warzone timer. Like it or not, most mmo pvp is an arms race. The object of the game is not to win the warzone, but to win frequently. This requires a combination of skill, and power. To get the power you make your character stronger. The same way you leveled to 50, the same way you hunted datacrons, the same way you killed something to get cash to buy consumables. The object of the game is to BECOME STRONG. Not to test your skill alone, but also your smarts, your efficiency, and to reward your abilities. If you're a GTN mogul, you can afford exotech stims. Is this a handicap? of course not. The recruit gear guy has already let his opponent get an advantage, he has no right to complain that he loses. Edited May 2, 2012 by Ahhmyface Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nursewithwound Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Holy cow, is this another post saying its not fair because you did not buy your recuirt gear, save WZ comms and get into BM? Do you wear what you think looks like "Cool" looking PvE gear into WZs with 200-500 expertise? You have the same tools at your finger tips as everyone else, why is it most people have no issues in PvP? Ohhhh, thats right, because you want everything handed to you, gotcha. yeah people like you need that sliding scale of a crutch .. when the games already unbalance.. having some stupid stat that BOOSTS all your damage/healing/an mitigation is idiotic.. PvP gear should have higher END, an a bit of your primary (since they dont have mana like in wow cant really control that) make the gear better.. but Eat a bag of Di$#(*S if you think doing an extra 30% of damage makes any sense.. Crutch, make these bastards play at a baseline an we can talk about skill.. this isnt whos pecker is larger.. Crutch, an more crutches.. Want war hero gear? grats your doing an extra 30 or 40 points of damage.. more crit.. more surge.. not ohh your f*#$ed up attack is base 10k somehow an now your one shotting people with your handicap ramp! More skill, less gimmic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falters Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Getting the gear isn't even a function of skill. It is a function of standing in WZ's, win or lose, long enough to get the points. Plenty of terrible players are probably in full top of the line gear. It just took them more play time to get there. Grinds are a con... well, we call them business models in the 'real world'. You have to play a minimum amount of time (and pay to play) to get the gear, during which time a 'balance pass' gets made and, if possible, convinces you to reroll and start the process over. BW isn't evil for doing it, they are just another game producing lemming cashing in. SWTOR was fun, I don't regret the money I spent, but I stopped taking it seriously as the game I have been looking for back in January. But hey, they gave me another month for free to convince me to stay, so they have at least that long. Funny, I didn't even realize I had already started referring to the game in the past tense till I reread what I wrote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nursewithwound Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 ding ding ding.. its all about the grind.. why add content when you can put in a threadmill... its all about account retention , an monthly billing.. if you are forced to spend another month chasing that carrot of crippleness thats more money in their bank.. /shrugs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowOfVey Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Then you can play with the other 5 people on your server that bother to continue queueing for warzones consistently, as everyone else would randomly play a few once in a while then logoff (and unsub before long). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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