why weren't knights and warriors revamped during patch.

[GypsyMagik]

No changing CoP wouldn't make a difference but that just proves it doesnt do a whole lot in the first place. I just don't understand how you and everyone else calling for nerfs points to our defense... are you familiar with the mechanics of a marauder? have you ever actually seen the difference first hand using these cd's as opposed to not? I have been used to being a squishy class since release so I just find it all to amusing how survivable we have become... have you ever pocket healed a marauder? I am pretty sure anyone who has healed a marauder guildie can tell you just how easy it is to keep us up and going

[DynamiCtagez]

I think any class that fights 6+ people should die almost instantly. And most do, not sure why you think Marauders should be fed with the silver spoon.

 

Every class DOES die within seconds. Even Marauders. Only their invincibility helps them survive 4secs longer. OMG NERF NERF. lol. Out of SIX people there should be ONE who's able to stun that mara. I main an Operative and Marauders are candy for me. Just stop crying please.

[GypsyMagik]

Every class DOES die within seconds. Even Marauders. Only their invincibility helps them survive 4secs longer. OMG NERF NERF. lol. Out of SIX people there should be ONE who's able to stun that mara. I main an Operative and Marauders are candy for me. Just stop crying please.

 

The crying will never end my friend like an endless waterfall. I just hope they all at least try a marauder once so they can move on to whining about something new but the lack of willingness to become a better player means they most definitely will keep whining

[ShadowOfVey]

Either way as a sent you know it's a matter of them walking in a direction, any direction for about one second to get away from it

 

http://www.torhead.com/ability/7cLxbwz/debilitation

[Semitote]

No changing CoP wouldn't make a difference but that just proves it doesnt do a whole lot in the first place. I just don't understand how you and everyone else calling for nerfs points to our defense... are you familiar with the mechanics of a marauder? have you ever actually seen the difference first hand using these cd's as opposed to not? I have been used to being a squishy class since release so I just find it all to amusing how survivable we have become... have you ever pocket healed a marauder? I am pretty sure anyone who has healed a marauder guildie can tell you just how easy it is to keep us up and going

 

Play a Rage Juggernaut for one day. You'll see exactly where I'm coming from. We have to use Soresu Form to have any sort of survivability. And what that means is we have to give up 20% armor penetration, 3% damage, and generate 1 less rage for every rage generating assault ability in order to stay alive. Our Enraged Defense heals us for less than what we get hit for and saps all our rage away. Our Endure Pain is nice when used right before a warzone medpac, but we lose the health we gain 10 seconds after we use it which leaves us at 1% health usually. What do you have to give up to gain your survivability? 50% health? Whoopedy doo. Time it with a warzone medpac or use it when 50% of your current health is next to nothing and it's not that big of a deal. And that's just one of your many defensive cooldowns. I am biased because I play probably the least survivable melee DPS spec in the game, but that's all I have to compare it to.

[Semitote]

Every class DOES die within seconds. Even Marauders. Only their invincibility helps them survive 4secs longer. OMG NERF NERF. lol. Out of SIX people there should be ONE who's able to stun that mara. I main an Operative and Marauders are candy for me. Just stop crying please.

 

Just because someone has an opinion different than yours, does not mean that they are crying. And Undying Rage lasts 5 seconds. And 5 seconds is 1/4th of the door spawn time on Voidstar and Novare Coast, and also that's 5 extra seconds you give your teammates to fly back on Civil War - And it's more than enough time to get the Huttball across the goal line if you're close enough in a situation where every other class would have died. I don't care about Marauders 1v1 capabilities. Their defensive abilities make them overpowered in team play - same with tank assassins.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Semitote

[Exilim]

Either way as a sent you know it's a matter of them walking in a direction, any direction for about one second to get away from it

 

Oops two steps to the left I'm free and clear! It is not as easy as that. i know it and I abuse the hell out of it, heh. I'm not even afraid to admit it. If people are walking away from you while you master strike you did something wrong to allow them too. That is your mistake not some flaw in the class design to try and bring to an argument.

[GypsyMagik]

Now now your uninformed opinion can be easily torn apart don't blame him... what you are saying is that if a good player plays well and uses his abilities the right way he shouldn't do good... well regardless of class I am pretty sure anyone who uses there cooldowns/medpacs/relics properly will come off as OP unfortunately we play a game where a good player can do good so stop bashing the class itself and maybe try asking the players nicely to stop paying attention to what they are doing

[GypsyMagik]

 

Oops two steps to the left I'm free and clear! It is not as easy as that. i know it and I abuse the hell out of it, heh. I'm not even afraid to admit it. If people are walking away from you while you master strike you did something wrong to allow them too. That is your mistake not some flaw in the class design to try and bring to an argument.

 

I'm not saying it's that easy but a good player will have no trouble getting away from it... I agree its a great move but the complaints are about how tough we are to kill not the damage we do and well you play the class you know the truths of it

[ShadowOfVey]

There's a talent that roots the person during ravage in a currently strong mara pvp tree.

 

You can't always just walk away from it.

[HurricaneXXIV]

Play a Rage Juggernaut for one day. You'll see exactly where I'm coming from. We have to use Soresu Form to have any sort of survivability. And what that means is we have to give up 20% armor penetration, 3% damage, and generate 1 less rage for every rage generating assault ability in order to stay alive. Our Enraged Defense heals us for less than what we get hit for and saps all our rage away. Our Endure Pain is nice when used right before a warzone medpac, but we lose the health we gain 10 seconds after we use it which leaves us at 1% health usually. What do you have to give up to gain your survivability? 50% health? Whoopedy doo. Time it with a warzone medpac or use it when 50% of your current health is next to nothing and it's not that big of a deal. And that's just one of your many defensive cooldowns. I am biased because I play probably the least survivable melee DPS spec in the game, but that's all I have to compare it to.

 

Seems like a class specific tree issue, not an issue with other classes. We play with a sweep spec guardian who tops the damage meter in every game, I dont' know how he lives so long.

[Fafnir]

I just wish each advanced class would have their own icons so we could see who where marauder/sentinel/juggernaut/guardian. There is a big difference between the jugger/marauder and sentinel/guardian, cant even compare the dps output vs pretty much equal survivability in dps spec. Tank spec we do survive longer but we hit for crap.

[DynamiCtagez]

Just because someone has an opinion different than yours, does not mean that they are crying. And Undying Rage lasts 5 seconds. And 5 seconds is 1/4th of the door spawn time on Voidstar and Novare Coast, and also that's 5 extra seconds you give your teammates to fly back on Civil War

 

It's 0 extra time if you stun him. OH MY GAWD I HAVE VANISH ON MY OPERATIVE DATS EXTRA TIME. NERF NERF

Edited May 1, 2012 by DynamiCtagez

[Fafnir]

Seems like a class specific tree issue, not an issue with other classes. We play with a sweep spec guardian who tops the damage meter in every game, I dont' know how he lives so long.

Good backing... Look after thoose healers that heal and shield him. The defensive cooldowns we have are on 1-3 min and dont get much lower via spec.

[getdownsb]

I think any class that fights 6+ people should die almost instantly. And most do, not sure why you think Marauders should be fed with the silver spoon.

 

6+ people on 1 Marauder = insta-gib. That's not what he said, he said that Marauders are required to fight in the middle of 6+ people and AoE's, which they are required to do the vast majority of the time. You want to take the melee's defensive CDs away? Ok, then give all ranged abilities a 6m minimum range.

 

The issue isn't Marauders, or any other class for that matter. The issue is that the vast majority of this player-base is bad yet they think they're good. They're in there just mashing buttons and not thinking about what they're doing. Then when their blind leading the derp approach to PvP doesn't work out the first reaction they have is "it must be the game, time to QQ about it" instead of "maybe I don't know everything, what could I do differently".

 

This is easily the most balanced MMO I have ever played in regards to PvP. The people QQ'ing about imbalance haven't a clue what imbalance truly is.

[HurricaneXXIV]

If 6 people would fight a full wh marader that guy would still die in under 3 seconds, They can't pop UR in a stun. So they would be insta gibbed.

[HurricaneXXIV]

Good backing... Look after thoose healers that heal and shield him. The defensive cooldowns we have are on 1-3 min and dont get much lower via spec.

 

I really do think heavy armor took a big hit this patch. A few advanced trees do need looking into. Ideally all 3 trees would be playable in pvp.

[unicornfive]

Melee attack roots caster.

Enemy can interrupt it by stun/knockbakcs.

Enemy can run way from it and kite warrior/jugg at same time.

 

It has 30 sec cd

 

Its a melee attack, not a spell....

It shouldnt be interrupted by spell that interrupts casts from the beggining.

 

Also because its OP on maras (with 100% armor ignore or root) it doesnt mean juggs/guardians must get nerfed too....

[Apocalypse-]

6+ people on 1 Marauder = insta-gib. That's not what he said, he said that Marauders are required to fight in the middle of 6+ people and AoE's, which they are required to do the vast majority of the time. You want to take the melee's defensive CDs away? Ok, then give all ranged abilities a 6m minimum range.

 

The issue isn't Marauders, or any other class for that matter. The issue is that the vast majority of this player-base is bad yet they think they're good. They're in there just mashing buttons and not thinking about what they're doing. Then when their blind leading the derp approach to PvP doesn't work out the first reaction they have is "it must be the game, time to QQ about it" instead of "maybe I don't know everything, what could I do differently".

 

This is easily the most balanced MMO I have ever played in regards to PvP. The people QQ'ing about imbalance haven't a clue what imbalance truly is.

Ding ding ding. It's like Helm of Graush is the only server left capable of thinking.

 

Here's a hint forums: Sentinels and Marauders are WEAKER as teammates post 1.2 than they were before it. Yes, master strike got buffed. Thing is, you can remove master strike entirely and the class wouldn't really feel it. It's a 30s CD that's only useful if it doesn't land the 3rd hit to one of three specs, and that spec is the one that makes it useful by assuring the 3rd hit connects I'd readily trade the entire skill* of Master Strike AND add a -100% incoming healing debuff to guarded by the force just to make the old Focused Pursuit (now the 2nd half of Fleet Footed) into a base AC ability. Here's another hint: you wouldn't like what happens if that trade got made unless you're a sent/mara that actually knows your class.

 

*The traited root would need to be moved onto another skill, say precision slash or otherwise shorten one of the other two rooting skills.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Apocalypse-

[vimm]

By Knights and Warriors, do you mean Sentinels and Marauders?

[KiranK]

Melee attack roots caster.

Enemy can interrupt it by stun/knockbakcs.

Enemy can run way from it and kite warrior/jugg at same time.

 

It has 30 sec cd

 

Its a melee attack, not a spell....

It shouldnt be interrupted by spell that interrupts casts from the beggining.

 

Also because its OP on maras (with 100% armor ignore or root) it doesnt mean juggs/guardians must get nerfed too....

 

If you're on about Master Strike/Ravage, it should be nerfed at all. It's channel you can interrupt with CC. It doesn't root UNLESS you are Carnage/Combat spec and it's very high in the tree. It's on a 30 second CD and it freezes you in place. Someone who is smart will start pre-kiting while you're in duration and you'll be 10 feet behind when you finally finish.

[Veeius]

Yes I can see how our defensive CD's that got buffed in 1.2 lead to everyone re rolling them.... actually the reason everyone has rerolled them is because people read forums see all the bads crying and think that means our class is OP. our CD's have barely changed... you say there is no reason for a squishy melee class that has to fight in aoes and or in the middle of 6+ guys on a door to have defensive cooldowns? heh heh heh I'm glad so many people have such thoughtful insight into this unfortunately any argument with validity being made is in defense of marauders

 

From one melee (jugg) to another, seriously, you need to be really really really really quiet & hope you don't get the nerf bat you richly deserve. I wear heavy armor, so you would think I'm more durable than you, but I don't have 1/2 your durability, but at the same time you have higher burst, AND higher sustained along with more durability. I don't mind that you have more burst & more sustained than me - but it is nucking futz that you're more durable at the same time. Your defensive cds are VASTLY too powerful for your offensive ability and THAT is why everyone is screaming "nerf." Your offensive power is fine. Your DEFENSIVE abilities are way way way out of whack.

[Apocalypse-]

From one melee (jugg) to another, seriously, you need to be really really really really quiet & hope you don't get the nerf bat you richly deserve. I wear heavy armor, so you would think I'm more durable than you, but I don't have 1/2 your durability, but at the same time you have higher burst, AND higher sustained along with more durability. I don't mind that you have more burst & more sustained than me - but it is nucking futz that you're more durable at the same time. Your defensive cds are VASTLY too powerful for your offensive ability and THAT is why everyone is screaming "nerf." Your offensive power is fine. Your DEFENSIVE abilities are way way way out of whack.

Not being in tank stance doesn't disable your taunts. Your group is more durable by you simply being there and using your abilities. Your defensive abilities are valuable to the group, our defensive abilities are valuable to ourselves. Apples to oranges.

[Veeius]

Not being in tank stance doesn't disable your taunts. Your group is more durable by you simply being there and using your abilities. Your defensive abilities are valuable to the group, our defensive abilities are valuable to ourselves. Apples to oranges.[/QUOTe]

 

way to completely redirect the argument. juggs/guards will drop like flies when being focused, but maras/sents can chain their defensive cooldowns and last quite a while. Maras/sents are more durable than juggs/guards, that is flat out ridiculous. And honestly, I wouldn't mind this at all IF maras/sents didn't also have superior burst, and superior sustained dps. However, maras/sents DO have superior burst and sustained damage, both single target and aoe. They trade NOTHING for that.

 

THAT, honestly, is a good chunk of why I'm kind of weary of pvp. Because on my sent, I'm evidently REALLY good, and on my jugg I'm really NOT good. Except that beings as I'm the same person, I find it difficult to believe I'm a pro AND a baddie.

 

For the damage maras/sents have they are VASTLY too durable. It's really just that simple.

[Serel]

You mean the classes that have no non-channeled stuns(all the good stuns are tank spec only, and tank specced knights do very little damage) are the most vulnerable to CC and have to be at 4 meters to use virtually every single attack? Those knights/warriors? Yea, there's a reason they have to be good at what they do. They're so one dimensional that the class would be utter garbage otherwise.

 

brilliant comment. They deserve a little leeway for being the only pure melee class in the game. And lets not hear people whining about force leap - theres no better way of getting the attention of every dps for miles around than doing that. Big shiny colourful arc through the air, practically shouting out "Hey im most likely a dps class that's preoccupied with someone else and will almost certainly not be able to counter you if you attack me." And at least shadows have ranged moves. Oh wait. And stealth -_-