Someone explain the LFG tool hate?

[chton]

How about the LFG tool that already exists that no one uses?

[Darkulous]

How about the LFG tool that already exists that no one uses?

 

You answered your own question.

[noodlehaus]

How about the LFG tool that already exists that no one uses?

 

hahaha this question has so much win!

[Mallorik]

Bioware is just being ignorant, this game will have a cross server lfg tool eventualy i would bet on it. I will concede that they will wait too long and wont implement it until the game is in serious trouble and they realize that people quit mmos when they cant easily get groups and they dont quit mmos because they have a choice to use an in game tool that THEY DONT HAVE TO USE.

[Valkirus]

You answered your own question.

 

Lol! Priceless.

[terminova]

How about the LFG tool that already exists that no one uses?

 

You mean the one where I spam General Chat for an hour?

[Skidrowbro]

You mean the one where I spam General Chat for an hour?

 

No, the one that is a drop down menu and you can click the LFG button and add your own comment on what you are looking for. The one that also allows you to search for players in all the zones. The one that works really well if you actually USE it

[Valkirus]

No, the one that is a drop down menu and you can click the LFG button and add your own comment on what you are looking for. The one that also allows you to search for players in all the zones. The one that works really well if you actually USE it

 

Maybe for you. I have tried it and it does not work worth a damn. I have seen others spamming General with them flagged too and they not get a grp. Or atleast during the time I was there.. That may work ok on higher pop servers..but it is a fail tool for most on low pop servers. Often on my server you see who all is on and you may see one, or two...or none out of the 30 - 60 players who are flagged. And a lot of times they are looking for a Flashpoint which is ether too low for you or too high..depending on what char you want to do a Flashpoint on. And donot tell me it is my fault for being on a low pop server. Not transfering or rerolling...not a option.

[rickyard]

Hoping someone can explain why the hate for the LFG tool that seems to abound on these forums...

 

It is filled with people that HATE anything that it is not ALREADY in the game (hardcore defenders)

 

AND people that HATE people that would like to see improvements in the game. I call this reactionary haters

 

I wonder what they are afraid of... they think that every critic to their game will DESTROY it????

 

Not doing anything about the problem WOULD destroy it.

[Temad]

It is irrational to be against LFG systems that are X-Server. There is no server community, has never been one in TOR nor any MMO that released in the past 5 or so years. MMO server community is gone like the pager.

 

Guilds are for community in MMOs. Join one, learn to be social.

 

Raids, Flashpoints whatever you want to use are just tools to a means now. It is cynical but it is reality. You are delusional to think X-Server LFG systems will do anything but save this game from a horrible spiral that will come from single server LFG and limited server transfers.

 

Do X-Server LFG systems diminish some level of the game making it more sterile? Sure, but the benefit so far out weighs this factor as to be pointless to fret over. This game is bleeding player base over one primary thing...the limited content any new game is going to have must be able to be experienced by all with relative ease or that lack of content is magnified times 1000.

 

We are seeing this play out before our eyes.

[Darkulous]

No, the one that is a drop down menu and you can click the LFG button and add your own comment on what you are looking for. The one that also allows you to search for players in all the zones. The one that works really well if you actually USE it

 

What if people aren't using it because THOSE PLAYERS AREN'T LOOKING TO GROUP UP. The entire grouping problem is the lack of players who want to group up. How do we increase the pool of players who want to group up for everyone SINGLE person? You know the answer.

[rickyard]

What if people aren't using it because THOSE PLAYERS AREN'T LOOKING TO GROUP UP. The entire grouping problem is the lack of players who want to group up. How do we increase the pool of players who want to group up for everyone SINGLE person? You know the answer.

 

Puting in contact people that DO want to group.. how? with a strong grouping tool

 

Have you seen any problem with huttball? or warzones? And it is for more than four players!

 

Why? because you ONLY have to press a button, and the system finds you player that wants to do the same... and WHILE YOU PLAY. But flaging as LFG and keep playing is the best way to don't have a group in an hour.

Edited May 4, 2012 by rickyard

[DarthTHC]

No, the one that is a drop down menu and you can click the LFG button and add your own comment on what you are looking for. The one that also allows you to search for players in all the zones. The one that works really well if you actually USE it

 

The one that works so well that BioWare is investing what seems to be a significant amount of time, development staff, and money to enhance it so people will actually find it useful, you mean? That tool?

[ferroz]

No, the one that is a drop down menu and you can click the LFG button and add your own comment on what you are looking for. The one that also allows you to search for players in all the zones. The one that works really well if you actually USE it

Yeah... so the one that doesn't do anything and is far less effective than standing around in fleet spamming for 3 hours. Got it.

 

We're aware of that "tool"; it's useless. In particular, it doesn't help someone get a mid 30s group together when there isn't a healer logged on that's between level 25 and 45. On the other hand, a cross server lfg tool puts those people into a group in seconds.

Edited May 4, 2012 by ferroz

[stormie_sarge]

since I have played wow (till SWTOR came out) LFg was a tool that did allow for some great fast groupings. The issues that it presented me was

 

-bad players playing badly because there is no way for them to be disciplined for their behavior/playing (just reque)

 

-playing ninjaing just because they are greedy

 

-speed runners, who fit into catagory one, gripe and grief everyone for not taking the shortest route to beat the dungeon

 

-entitlementers, who think that they are gods gift to the world, and they know their videogames like its their life (prolly is but most people dont care)

 

-having maybe 1 in 50 enjoyable runs due to mostly the above problems, but sometimes with others which are usually unique

[Darkulous]

since I have played wow (till SWTOR came out) LFg was a tool that did allow for some great fast groupings. The issues that it presented me was

 

-bad players playing badly because there is no way for them to be disciplined for their behavior/playing (just reque)

KICK

-playing ninjaing just because they are greedy

KICK

-speed runners, who fit into catagory one, gripe and grief everyone for not taking the shortest route to beat the dungeon

Easy to deal with.

-entitlementers, who think that they are gods gift to the world, and they know their videogames like its their life (prolly is but most people dont care)

again, easy to deal with.

-having maybe 1 in 50 enjoyable runs due to mostly the above problems, but sometimes with others which are usually unique

 

OK, 1 in 50? Do you que in alone everytime or something? Even when I que in alone I don't experience that ratio. Maybe I just don't take other players as serious as you do or something.

[DarthTHC]

since I have played wow (till SWTOR came out) LFg was a tool that did allow for some great fast groupings. The issues that it presented me was

 

-bad players playing badly because there is no way for them to be disciplined for their behavior/playing (just reque)

-playing ninjaing just because they are greedy

-speed runners, who fit into catagory one, gripe and grief everyone for not taking the shortest route to beat the dungeon

-entitlementers, who think that they are gods gift to the world, and they know their videogames like its their life (prolly is but most people dont care)

-having maybe 1 in 50 enjoyable runs due to mostly the above problems, but sometimes with others which are usually unique

 

Isn't getting kicked out of the group and having to requeue discipline? How much discipline do you want to apply, really?

 

There is no such thing as ninjaing in this game. Per BioWare, people are perfectly able to roll Need on items if they need the credits they'll get from vendoring the item.

 

Speed runners - again if the majority of the group doesn't want this, kick the one miscreant. If the majority of the group does want it and you don't either drop group and requeue or deal with it for one run. Momma always told me that when playing with others, sometimes you have to compromise.

 

Entitlementists - Why do you care? Ignore their prattle while you run the group. If you want to play with others, you're going to encounter a wide range of personalities. If you're afraid to encounter anyone significantly different from yourself, you probably should elect not to use an optional tool that might result in such an encounter.

 

1 in 50 good runs? Huge exaggeration. My experience running LFG groups in WoW was almost universally stellar. Sure, I encountered bad groups or bad people but those were a minority. I've actually encountered more bad behavior and players who refuse to learn here in this game via spamming for a group than I ever did in WoW with its groupfinder tool.

[ferroz]

-having maybe 1 in 50 enjoyable runs due to mostly the above problems, but sometimes with others which are usually unique

I had about 1 in 50 runs wind up as a bad because of any of the problems that you're citing here. I had somewhere over 1000 full pug lfg runs (plus about as many that were either guild groups or partial guild groups with pugs), just to put that in perspective.

 

I suspect that you either had a couple of bad experiences and are just exaggerating, or that you went from never pugging before lfg to doing lots of pugs after lfd (and are therefore treating problems that are strictly due to pugging as being specifically caused by cross server), or you're just making this up.

Edited May 4, 2012 by ferroz

[Vlaxitov]

Hoping someone can explain why the hate for the LFG tool that seems to abound on these forums, and if my thinking is so way off mark! Having played MMOs since Ultima Online, through SWG, WOW, RIFT, EQ, STO, LOTRO etc, I have seen various implementations of the above tool, and can honestly say, the tool improves MY gaming experience massively, just wondering why the hate, and how it has such a negative impact on others

 

Actually you're hoping to explain away a few reservations that people have with a "X-SERVER" LFG tool in mmos in general.

 

So far the common arguments I have seen, which dont seem to hold any weight are:

Don't hold any weight for you.

 

'It ruins the community' - really? I fail to see how general chat spam of "LF2M Healer and Tank" over and over quantifies as community (and normally in caps)!!.

 

It doesen't and this is a strawman argument. You're approaching this as through it was x-lfg already, never once considering there will eventually come a time that you barely if ever spam for people again because you've gotten to know enough players. Were talking about a community of players, not general chatters.

 

'All that is needed is a Global General Chat' - this would be great, but again would just be filled with spam, and also all the idiotic chatter about chuck norris, or how someone did something to someone elses mom, and actually have very little impact on LFG due to your message being lost in nonsense, not to mention that you have to watch the chat closely incase you miss your option.

 

The idiotic chatter goes from chuck norris jokes to dead baby jokes as soon as you put people in a position that what their fellow players think about them doesen't matter. Again, were talking about a community of players, not chatters. If you're 5-6 months in on a mmo and still struggle to find people to run dungeons with, either the game sucks or you do.

 

'It ruins immersion' - normally from pvpers who like to gank people onroute to instance, or from people who want to see peeps travelling. Seems as all the instances are on the Fleets, then again, a LFG tool, even with insta telepor, would hardly ruin this?

 

Most people I know who are against x-server lfg aren't this sentimental about immersion. That said, yeah it takes it from a mmo world to a CoD lobby.

 

'People can ninja with immunity' - probably the only valid argument i can see so far, but seems as most items are usable bny anyone and their companion, and people already role on items for their companions, it again looses weight.

 

So the old justify need over someones main character for your pet's gear trick again? Without x-server lfg, things like "I needed it for my pet" are a limited time offer before your reputation will precede you. At that point you'd be whining for x-realm on the forums to try to force your way into groups.

 

As I see it the LFG tool means I dont have to spend Ages trying to find a group by sitting in Imperial fleet watching the drivel in general chat, I can play the game, with friends, whilst waiting for my group to assemble. Those who are violently opposed to this dont have to use it afterall, and can continue to spam, or play with their friends. The only valid reason I can think of is that maybe those who oppose it so much are such terrible players, they are afraid their 'friends' will abandon them if it is easier to get a group?!!!

 

Oh, the don't use it argument. Then I take it you wouldn't mind me opening up a brothel or crack house next door to where you live. Its cool dude, don't use it if you don't like it. Aside from that, with all the friends you keep talking about its hard to beleive that you already don't just log on to raid as it is.

 

Those of you who take time to post constructive posts, thanks, hope it will help to educate/Develop my understanding. Those who just flame, OMG LFG tool is terribad with no justification, please save it for one of the other million threads about LFG tools!

 

You forgot the most important thing about x-server lfg tool. Six months after x-server lfg the game plays like digital candyland because little johnny who couldn't find groups before because he sucked soo bad has now become a permanent liability for us all. This game is already less complicated than super mario bros, is that really what you want?

[DawnAskham]

I had about 1 in 50 runs wind up as a bad because of any of the problems that you're citing here. I had somewhere over 1000 full pug lfg runs (plus about as many that were either guild groups or partial guild groups with pugs), just to put that in perspective.

 

I suspect that you either had a couple of bad experiences and are just exaggerating, or that you went from never pugging before lfg to doing lots of pugs after lfd (and are therefore treating problems that are strictly due to pugging as being specifically caused by cross server), or you're just making this up.

 

I'm going with 'just making this up'.

 

I can link alts of mine in WoW (non-active atm) that have statistics showing they have completed 1000s of instances and have all the achievements for doing various instance activities through the LFG tool (like group with 100 unique players through random LFG groups).

 

And in all that time, I'd say my success rate is probably 95% or better.

 

Sure, I've had some horrid groups.

 

I had to drop a group with a player that couldn't be kicked who refused to play (they were the tank). I had a group with players so under-geared they died instantly to anything and everything. I had a group with a player running off at the mouth non-stop.

 

BUT

 

Those were isolated instances.

 

I've also met many great players, become friends with a few, earned lots of achievements, picked up new tips and tricks (both for my class and for the instance), and even found a guild where I server transferred to join.

 

And besides, I've dropped or kicked people from groups in SWTOR who were belligerent, bad, or rolling Need on everything. And these groups were formed on a single server without an automated grouping tool, though like my LFG experiences in WoW, were the exceptions and not the rule.

 

The only difference?

 

It took much longer and was much more annoying to create the groups in SWTOR. Not only that, when the bad apple was removed in SWTOR, it was back to spamming Fleet for 30 minutes hoping for a replacement versus getting another player nearly instantly in WoW.

Edited May 4, 2012 by DawnAskham

[Phyreblade]

You know, I would "explain" but I've "explained" many times only to have my "explanations" dismissed as "stupid" so I suppose I'll leave my "explanation" at "unexplainable" to someone who can't accept any "explanation" aside from his own, which, mind you, makes about as much sense as mine.

 

I mean, seriously. You may find it fun and interesting to explain your feelings to people who don't feel the way you do. But I think it's a waste of time.

[Valkirus]

Oh, the don't use it argument. Then I take it you wouldn't mind me opening up a brothel or crack house next door to where you live. Its cool dude, don't use it if you don't like it. Aside from that, with all the friends you keep talking about its hard to beleive that you already don't just log on to raid as it is.

 

You forgot the most important thing about x-server lfg tool. Six months after x-server lfg the game plays like digital candyland because little johnny who couldn't find groups before because he sucked soo bad has now become a permanent liability for us all. This game is already less complicated than super mario bros, is that really what you want?

 

Talk about some exaggerations. Gheeze. I donot "live" in any game. And the cross server LFG tool does not make 5 man heroics so easy you can stream roll thru them. You can still wipe and you still have to do some things correctly to succeed. And just because you feel the cross server tool dumbs down the game, does not mean it fails in what it's intent is..which is to allow casual gamers more timely access to end game content. The argument of " you donot like it, donot use it" is still a valid one.

[Vlaxitov]

Talk about some exaggerations

 

Talk about a say nothing accusation.

 

Gheeze. I donot "live" in any game.

 

Nope you must just work there because the objective is more important than the enjoyment to you.

 

 

And the cross server LFG tool does not make 5 man heroics so easy you can stream roll thru them. You can still wipe and you still have to do some things correctly to succeed.

 

Don't even try to pretend that games don't get dumbed down for the masses in order for it to be "accessable" to the masses.

 

And just because you feel the cross server tool dumbs down the game, does not mean it fails in what it's intent is..which is to allow casual gamers more timely access to end game content. The argument of " you donot like it, donot use it" is still a valid one.

 

The intent is to make as much money as possible. The key is to dumb it down just enough to get more people playing and feeling special and not bore you away from the game at the same time. If this were 10-15 years ago I'd still have an ounce of faith that profit isn't the sole reason people make games anymore.

[DarthTHC]

The intent is to make as much money as possible. The key is to dumb it down just enough to get more people playing and feeling special and not bore you away from the game at the same time. If this were 10-15 years ago I'd still have an ounce of faith that profit isn't the sole reason people make games anymore.

 

Yep, it's a business and it needs to be profitable. If it's not profitable, the company will stop supporting the game and nobody will be able to play it.

 

If you don't like paying companies to entertain you, why are you here?

 

Now let's take the flip-side.

 

You do realize there are currently 2 different levels of flashpoint and operation content, right? Story mode and Nightmare mode. The game developer can "dumb down" the Story mode side of things for the masses of lesser skilled players while amping up the challenge in Nightmare mode for srs gamerz.

 

A groupfinder tool doesn't have to impact the challenge of the game. A game has to have players to be successful. If players quit because it's impossible to find a group (on many servers) or it takes longer to find a group than run the content you found the group for, there won't be a game.

[DarthTHC]

You know, I would "explain" but I've "explained" many times only to have my "explanations" dismissed as "stupid" so I suppose I'll leave my "explanation" at "unexplainable" to someone who can't accept any "explanation" aside from his own, which, mind you, makes about as much sense as mine.

 

I mean, seriously. You may find it fun and interesting to explain your feelings to people who don't feel the way you do. But I think it's a waste of time.

 

You make a very good point. It is often fruitless to debate when basing your position on feelings. That's why debaters gather and present facts and their analysis and interpretation of facts.