Someone explain the LFG tool hate?

[Andryah]

I have read all those and posted many times, I am looking for a fresh perspective..

 

Nothing fresh can be found on an overly flogged dead horse.

[Crazy_Person]

I am in agreement with the cross server hurting community... but at a point it becomes necessary. It stinks that you will play with people you will never see again, it stinks to get ninjaed without any real way to warn others and it stinks that you don’t meet the people you do in a single server setting. With that said there comes a point where it becomes needed because you just aren’t going to find 4 people wanting to do a certain flashpoint at once. It would be really hard to do a leveling instance in WOW when the population is scattered from 1-80. It should not be as bad on TOR but in my experience it already looks like I may be forced to skip a flashpoint to do lack of interest on my server.

 

Black Talon and the republic equivalent probably will always be group able. single server. People are always trying out alts and wanting to group with them at the low levels.

 

Same can be said about the top end flashpoints... once people get passed a certain point they will want to finish and grouping is a part of that. (this is theory only because with my life I have been leveling slowly… but in past games this was the case for me)

 

Problem now... is the mid levels. I have been looking for a Boarding Party group for multiple days and have not even gotten one person to join... much less a full group. It might be time to consider adding a cross server option for those mid level things. I don’t want to skip any flashpoint.. I prefer to level in them over single player quests and with the KOTOR connection I want to do this one AT LEAST once. (running through it once im high enough to solo it does not count as doing it)

 

I believe that the top end stuff should ALWAYS be single server only. Allow community to develop, and people to get invited to guilds because they are good players. Let the community filter out the jerk. That point of the game is what everyone “works” towards and at level 50 it is time to find a guild and cool players. Everyone hits level 50 and stays there… you can find people that level. That can’t be said about other points in the game… and that is where cross server may become needed.

 

With that said if people don't want to skip level up flashpoints then that should be cross server able... I didn't expect it to be needed this soon but if other people are having the same experience as me with this part of the game then it is probably time to put it in. If I just picked an unlucky server then sucks to be me. The minor sacrifice to community (and it is minor if it is just a level range in the game where people group once and go their separate ways anyway) is not worth people missing out on content especially if they want to learn how to tank/heal in a group setting so they are ready for the HMs later. I don’t want to get to 50 without knowing how to play my role in the group… even if the practice requires a cross server finder. If it is not needed now and I am just unluckey then it will be needed after an expansion... or two

 

At the very least this game needs a /lfg option for flashpoints. Flash the tank, healer, and DPS icon (make them if needed) on screen and the flashpoint(s) the player wants to do. Make it server wide so people in the fleet or on the level appropriate plannet both can get in. Might need to add a warp option for those not at the fleet... (ability to play > Imersion IMO).

Edited May 3, 2012 by Crazy_Person

[Elkirin]

When I began gaming, we could only "see" chat happening within a range of our characters, or we could get "Messenger" messages from friends.

 

While I am an older gamer, I DO NOT remember communties being better or worse than they are currently, times change that is all.

 

I would be in favour of a LFG system that allows people to add friends cross server and re invite them to parties being formed.

Edited May 3, 2012 by Elkirin

[Andryah]

in wow you can actually put players from other realms on your ignore list, and you will never be grouped with them again. it will also work in this game.

 

In Rift, you can server hop using their transfer process, and get your name changed in the process. It is a popular tactic of the really bad members of the community to defeat name tracking and ignore lists. In fact, you could do this in WoW too.... you just needed to make sure a character with your name existed on the target server (you could roll one if you needed to to achieve this). So it will happen here too.

[Ferthcott]

Easy solution: "Ignore" flag applying to the entire account. Alts issue - solved. Name change - solved. Shotgun approach. Edited May 3, 2012 by Ferthcott

[DarthTHC]

Easy solution: "Ignore" flag applying to the entire account. Alts issue - solved. Name change - solved. Shotgun approach.

 

I've been a proponent of this for a long time. If I use the ignore function, it's because of something the PLAYER did, not the character. The whole account should be ignored.

[Valkirus]

I've been a proponent of this for a long time. If I use the ignore function, it's because of something the PLAYER did, not the character. The whole account should be ignored.

 

It is in WoW.

[Valkirus]

In Rift, you can server hop using their transfer process, and get your name changed in the process. It is a popular tactic of the really bad members of the community to defeat name tracking and ignore lists. In fact, you could do this in WoW too.... you just needed to make sure a character with your name existed on the target server (you could roll one if you needed to to achieve this). So it will happen here too.

 

In WoW, if you ignore a player....it is effective on thier whole account. So changing your name will not work if you are trying to avoid that there. Blizzard was smart enough to add that feature.

[Blackardin]

I have participated heavily in this thread and there is still a very big unanswered question sitting out there.

 

Can anyone put into words what this so called "community" that the LFG would be killing is?

 

I mean is it:

People talking on the boards?

General chat LFG spam?

Telling jokes in trade?

Pugging raids and FPs?

Discussing politics or current events in /1?

People putting together major city boss kills like in WoW for achevos/mounts?

World PVP events planned in /trade?

Selling girl scout cookies or setting up a car wash for the bball team to go to camp?

 

What exactly is the mystical community that we see people over and over telling us will die if BW lets x-server LFG in game?

If we could get a straight answer to this question, we may have a better idea of how a LFG tool would tear it all apart?

 

Its been explained at least 10 times in this thread skip. Each time it has, you have refused to listen but attacked the poster and denied the reality....then turned around and asked the same nauseating question again.

 

....then the silliness, snippyness, we see above. Honestly, its like talking to a 14 year old.

[DarthTHC]

Its been explained at least 10 times in this thread skip. Each time it has, you have refused to listen but attacked the poster and denied the reality....then turned around and asked the same nauseating question again.

 

....then the silliness, snippyness, we see above. Honestly, its like talking to a 14 year old.

 

I don't know that this is true. I've never seen how "community" is defined, in this thread or any other that discusses the LFG tool.

 

I mean, we've seen that some players would like to be able to harass other players in general chat if those players do something to cause posterior pain, but that's about all I've seen.

 

Here, let me yoink in the dictionary.com definition:

 

1. a social group of any size whose members reside in a specific locality, share government, and often have a common cultural and historical heritage.

2. a locality inhabited by such a group.

3. a social, religious, occupational, or other group sharing common characteristics or interests and perceived or perceiving itself as distinct in some respect from the larger society within which it exists (usually preceded by the ): the business community; the community of scholars.

4. a group of associated nations sharing common interests or a common heritage: the community of Western Europe.

5. Ecclesiastical . a group of men or women leading a common life according to a rule.

 

It seems that 3 might be the best definition for our discussion. The question is really how do you define the scope of the community?

 

• Is it the set of all players of one faction on one server?
  
• Is it the set of all players of all factions on one server?
  
• Is it the set of all players on all servers?
  

 

A good argument could be made for each.

 

If we want an inclusive community, because we're being nice people, we should maybe consider the last scope - all players on all servers. In such a case, wouldn't X-LFG benefit community by giving us all the chance to interact more with each other?

[Blackardin]

I am in agreement with the cross server hurting community... but at a point it becomes necessary.

 

It never becomes necessary. It is a lazy, bandaid approach that may satisfy those that are incapable of rationally examining beyond the desire for imagined instant gratification,, but not solve the problem, while creating a whole different set of problems from the tank shortage to the many issues involved because of a lack of accountability. Heck, it really didn't even solve the problem. Queue times for my server for everything beyond the new troll dungeon was 45 minutes. Now we see people suggesting even more addons and fixes for the fix in an attempt to continue to patch up that bandied approach.

 

In short, there comes a time when you have to stop sticking bubblegum in that hole in your boat and look toward another solution. Cross server LFG is an albatross. It won't fly. That solution is server mergers, transfers, server wide LFG, summoning (or ship docking via access through one's ship), and return. The implementation of greater reward such as higher xp and greater loot for leveling group play. All of the benefits of the cross server LFG, none of the negatives.

 

Now I'm not sure why this debate continues. Even the development team for this game are against it. It truly is a dead horse. Lets just bury it.

[DarthTHC]

It never becomes necessary. It is a lazy, bandaid approach that may satisfy those that are incapable of rationally examining beyond the desire for imagined instant gratification,, but not solve the problem, while creating a whole different set of problems from the tank shortage to the many issues involved because of a lack of accountability. Heck, it really didn't even solve the problem. Queue times for my server for everything beyond the new troll dungeon was 45 minutes. Now we see people suggesting even more addons and fixes for the fix in an attempt to continue to patch up that bandied approach.

 

In short, there comes a time when you have to stop sticking bubblegum in that hole in your boat and look toward another solution. Cross server LFG is an albatross. It won't fly. That solution is server mergers, transfers, server wide LFG, summoning (or ship docking via access through one's ship), and return. The implementation of greater reward such as higher xp and greater loot for leveling group play. All of the benefits of the cross server LFG, none of the negatives.

 

Now I'm not sure why this debate continues. Even the development team for this game are against it. It truly is a dead horse. Lets just bury it.

 

You must be right. It was a dismal failure in the largest game in history. In fact, it was such a dismal failure that the developers are completely scrapping the idea and removing it from the game. They certainly didn't expand it to include even more content and they're definitely not looking to expand it further.

 

Seriously, where do you come up with this manure?

[Blackardin]

I don't know that this is true. I've never seen how "community" is defined, in this thread or any other that discusses the LFG tool.

 

Goodness people.

 

Defined as a group of gamers joining together in a mutually respectful, mutually beneficial manner for the purpose of accomplishing various goals and challenges through-out the game while building a network of friends, guilds, and team-mates for future association while allowing for both reward and accountability for player behavior.

 

Virtually impossible to do through the cross server LFG, demonstrating conclusively that the Cross server LFG does not in any way contribute to community, but rather in direct oposition to that goal.

 

What part of that is not understood?

[Jaxarale]

Its been explained at least 10 times in this thread skip.

 

Actually there has never been a definition of what the fabled community you seem to support so ardently. There has been much back and forth about the loss of said community, but as of yet not a single person has defined what that loss would be.

 

Each time it has, you have refused to listen but attacked the poster and denied the reality

 

I just re read this entire post just to make sure I was not off base... there is nothing defining WHAT the community is... as for attacking, I believe my posts would of been modded if I was attacking anyone... so your choice of wording is sensationalistic at best...

As for denying reality, it is your interpretation of reality that I choose to deny. The last I checked... I am still allowed to do that?

 

....then turned around and asked the same nauseating question again.

 

If you do not want to contribute... theres the door buddy, leave the thread... if it makes you sick that someone actually would like to try and understand the other side of the debate... then perhaps you should not be a part of it?

 

....then the silliness, snippyness, we see above. Honestly, its like talking to a 14 year old.

 

Projecting your own character flaws and moodiness onto me and my post means nothing to me. I am asking in all honesty and sincerity... define the community?... its a simple question, why can it not be answered?

 

In short, there comes a time when you have to stop sticking bubblegum in that hole in your boat and look toward another solution. Cross server LFG is an albatross. It won't fly.

 

LOL, you have just lost the very miniscule credibility you had here...

 

Now I'm not sure why this debate continues. Even the development team for this game are against it. It truly is a dead horse. Lets just bury it.

 

It continues because you continue to post and a lot of people disagree with you, and with me... logic is hard it seems! Yes the development team is against it so its a dead horse... as was same server LFG tool... you know the one being put in on patch 1.3...

You talk a good game for those that have not clue, but as the post above said... I really would like to know where you get the manure your spreading... my garden can use some because it sure is industrial grade crap...

Edited May 3, 2012 by Jaxarale

[DarthTHC]

Goodness people.

 

Defined as a group of gamers joining together in a mutually respectful, mutually beneficial manner for the purpose of accomplishing various goals and challenges through-out the game while building a network of friends, guilds, and team-mates for future association while allowing for both reward and accountability for player behavior.

 

Virtually impossible to do through the cross server LFG, demonstrating conclusively that the Cross server LFG does not in any way contribute to community, but rather in direct oposition to that goal.

 

What part of that is not understood?

 

I understand your definition. I simply disagree with it. I also disagree that community is "virtually impossible to do through X-LFG" as you keep saying, but not demonstrating.

 

Your definition of community is artificially narrow. Why force it to include guilds? Heck, why force it to include single-server? We on this forum are a community - the community of all players with active subscriptions to the game who read and write English, regardless where we live, what server we play on, which felonies we've been convicted of, etc. Why not cater to THAT community?

 

Your definition includes the terms "mutually respectful" and "mutually beneficial". I challenge you to show how that exists in all cases in this game today, with no LFG tool at all, outside of the cliques the game implements as guilds. If that is a necessary component of community for you, then what you have now is not a community, therefore X-LFG cannot "break" it.

 

Your definition includes accountability for player behavior. Nobody has yet shown how that accountability works aside from player on player harassment, which is against TOS. By the way, there is actually less player accountability now than there would be with an X-LFG tool simply because a) groups are so hard to get that players ignore any warnings about bad behavior, b) only the group leader can kick players (and if the misbehavior comes from the group lead you're screwed), and c) with a properly crafted LFG tool you can vote-kick the miscreants and put them back at the end of the queue.

Edited May 3, 2012 by DarthTHC

[Emilmedhinken]

I get this feelng that most anti-LFG'ers want to get the feeling they had when they played that very special MMO 7 years ago where more "social "interaction was required.

To many conservative people are holding back the development of this game, which suck balls.

 

Feel free to NOT use the lfg tool and /whisper your friends in your guild to group up and do ops or whatever you want, and let us with limited time to use the LFG tool as much as we want, kthx

[Darkulous]

It never becomes necessary. It is a lazy, bandaid approach that may satisfy those that are incapable of rationally examining beyond the desire for imagined instant gratification,, but not solve the problem,

It does solve the problem. X-server Tools brings people who want to group up together, nothing more. That's fact, not opinion.

while creating a whole different set of problems from the tank shortage

have you spammed LF tank in fleet lately?

to the many issues involved because of a lack of accountability.

Lack of accountability? Do you know about the Kick button? There is no accountability now because nobody wants to kick that player and go back to fleet to spam fleet for another hour.

 

Heck, it really didn't even solve the problem. Queue times for my server for everything beyond the new troll dungeon was 45 minutes.

 

Sure if your queing in solo, but who does that? People usually que in with friends or Guildies. Also, at least you can spend those 45 minutes in que doing whatever you want and not being stuck in one location. People who sit in Cities in que is a personal choice, it's not needed for LFD.

 

In short, there comes a time when you have to stop sticking bubblegum in that hole in your boat and look toward another solution. Cross server LFG is an albatross. It won't fly.

It's flying quite well in other games. Maybe it doesn't fly for YOU, but that's opinion.

That solution is server mergers, transfers, server wide LFG, summoning (or ship docking via access through one's ship), and return.

Server merges don't promise anything. Players will still have difficulties finding groups at low peak times and also find groups for lower-level content in the future. Even on a High populated server, it would be near impossible to find a group on WoW for pre-85 dungeons.

Now I'm not sure why this debate continues. Even the development team for this game are against it. It truly is a dead horse. Lets just bury it.

 

Ya ya, and rumor is the Dev team on WoW was against the LFD and yet they came out with the LFR. What the Devs really care about is keeping their jobs.

[Darkhosis]

Goes back to the illusion there's some sort of community on servers. Which makes little to no sense at all. What community? The some odd random people runing around fleet you never see again? Your guild? How does it affect your guild? It doesn't.

 

Some people think the LFG tool has mind controlling properties that make people lie, cheat, and steal. Turns you into a general d-bag they say, lol... Well I have news for you. If you run into a d-bag they were one all along and it isn't due to a LFG tool.

 

Mainly people are just ignorant. Going against the grain just so they can go against the grain and be different.

[DarthTHC]

Goes back to the illusion there's some sort of community on servers. Which makes little to no sense at all. What community? The some odd random people runing around fleet you never see again? Your guild? How does it affect your guild? It doesn't.

 

Some people think the LFG tool has mind controlling properties that make people lie, cheat, and steal. Turns you into a general d-bag they say, lol... Well I have news for you. If you run into a d-bag they were one all along and it isn't due to a LFG tool.

 

This is a good point. In the many thousands of X-LFG runs I did as a healer in WoW, I was never subjected to the tool's mind control. I never ninja looted. I never face-pulled (purposely). I always did my level best to contribute to the group's success.

 

Maybe the tinfoil hat I always wear protected me from the evil X-LFG mind control rays?

 

Mainly people are just ignorant. Going against the grain just so they can go against the grain and be different.

 

Or maybe it's a religious argument for them, and we all know how people react when logic challenges their religion.

[DigitalPrime]

Loving the assumptions guys. Keep em coming!

[DawnAskham]

I don't know that this is true. I've never seen how "community" is defined, in this thread or any other that discusses the LFG tool.

 

I mean, we've seen that some players would like to be able to harass other players in general chat if those players do something to cause posterior pain, but that's about all I've seen.

 

Here, let me yoink in the dictionary.com definition:

 

 

 

It seems that 3 might be the best definition for our discussion. The question is really how do you define the scope of the community?

 

• Is it the set of all players of one faction on one server?
  
• Is it the set of all players of all factions on one server?
  
• Is it the set of all players on all servers?
  

 

A good argument could be made for each.

 

If we want an inclusive community, because we're being nice people, we should maybe consider the last scope - all players on all servers. In such a case, wouldn't X-LFG benefit community by giving us all the chance to interact more with each other?

 

This is what I've stated from day one. The 'community' for SWTOR is ALL players playing the game, not some artificially created subset based on hardware configurations.

 

Are there subsets to the SWTOR community? Sure.

 

Though subsets can and should include everything from your personal guild and friends to your server to groups based on common language, age groups, locations, other affiliations, PVPer, PVEer, RPer, etc.

 

So why aren't we moving towards a more inclusive and all-encompassing community with tools that allow us to create and manage our own individually defined sub communities?

 

I not only want cross server LFG, I want better social tools both in game and through this website (or others) to find, communicate, share and group.

 

If I was running SWTOR, you would have the ability to create account and character level connections with other players across all servers, you would be able to share information about yourself and your game experiences with others both in game and through the website (with what is shared totally under your control), and you would be able to communicate and group with others across servers while in game.

 

And that would be just the beginning.

 

We live in an age where global travel, technical advancement, and the rise of social networks and connections bring more people together, with the ability to share more knowledge and experience, than ever before.

 

So why are our games that are supposedly social in nature designed like we are back in the stone ages with little isolated pockets of humanity that all struggle to survive in their small little corners of the globe?

Edited May 3, 2012 by DawnAskham

[Timesjoke]

Goodness people.

 

Defined as a group of gamers joining together in a mutually respectful, mutually beneficial manner for the purpose of accomplishing various goals and challenges through-out the game while building a network of friends, guilds, and team-mates for future association while allowing for both reward and accountability for player behavior.

 

Virtually impossible to do through the cross server LFG, demonstrating conclusively that the Cross server LFG does not in any way contribute to community, but rather in direct oposition to that goal.

 

What part of that is not understood?

 

Why are so many of you guys making such horribly wrong comments? Do you really believe this tripe or is there some other motivation causing you to intentionally misrepresent what the LFG tool does to help the community?

 

The LFG tool has been part of the WoW community for a very long time, if what you say is true, WoW would already be dead and gone but instead it is growing bigger and has a new expansion in the works.

 

My own Guild has around 400 members with 4 days a week regular raiding. We all use the LFG tool "AND" we run as guild groups. The idea that LFG ruins community is completely false.

 

****************************

 

The only thing that is "ruined" by a LFG tool is the inflated heads of the Elitists who believe endgame content is only there for them. In their world casual players should never be allowed to see endgame content.

[Blackardin]

You must be right. It was a dismal failure in the largest game in history. In fact, it was such a dismal failure that the developers are completely scrapping the idea and removing it from the game. They certainly didn't expand it to include even more content and they're definitely not looking to expand it further.

 

Seriously, where do you come up with this manure?

 

The further content that you are speaking of, is that the LFR, which, shortly thereafter lead to the guild community collapsing like a house of cards and millions of subscriptions going south? Last look at my once flourishing server had 200 people prime time in its entirety. Last LFG queue for my dps had a wait time of 45 minutes. Wow is moving in a different direction, toward a hard core instant grat, kiddie shooter designed around high end raid content and little else involving MMORPG gaming.

 

If that is what you seek, I can't argue with you, but I can argue that you go back there and cease trying to bring that here. I would also have to ask why, if you find that attractive you are even here instead of playing Wow. Does not make sense that one would do so.

 

Look, a bit of reality here. It took me about a minute to find a complaint posts asking for yet another fix for a system implemented several years ago, still not functioning well. First page, about three posts down. It also represents the type of player it breeds. Honestly, looking back to it gave me a chill. LOL

 

takes me 11 minutes to get into a dungeon everythings going well tank gets pissed off cuz i needed 1 weapon go to next boss we get wiped i brezz and they say i didnt do it cuz the healer died instantly and i got kicked can you plz fix ur kicking system and why the hell every time i try to kick someone thats using pvp gear in dungeons says i have to wait 4 hours ***

 

Here's another. first response. the ole, gear checker. Read the underlined statement.

 

let's see

9 unenchanted items

7 empty sockets in 5 items

Missing Ebonsteel Belt Buckle

Reforging

No items have been reforged.

Using tanking weapons as frost dps +4 to all stats in you're relic using a AGILITY TRINKET

tanking shoulders tanking waist 7 PVP ITEMS you're self(funny trying to kick someone for using pvp items when you you're self use them)

 

I'm sure my reason's is the reason you was kicked and not the made up one's you stated!!

 

Sorry skip.These are the types of player that system that Wow introduced attracts. This is the type of player that they supported, that crippled the community, that drove guilds and good players away. This is the scenario that repeats itself ad nausium in that game.

 

Is this truly the type of player you want to enter a dungeon with? Is this the scenario you seek to achieve? Does this look like a fun experience with people that you will enjoy and later group with again? Does it look like they even completed the dungeon?

 

We all have the right to our opinions, but as I stated, stop painting the LFG as a panacea, it is far from such, very far.

[DarthTHC]

takes me 11 minutes to get into a dungeon everythings going well tank gets pissed off cuz i needed 1 weapon go to next boss we get wiped i brezz and they say i didnt do it cuz the healer died instantly and i got kicked can you plz fix ur kicking system and why the hell every time i try to kick someone thats using pvp gear in dungeons says i have to wait 4 hours ***

 

Based on his writing alone, I'm going to go ahead and assume he probably richly deserved a vote-kick. Not the best example of the system working poorly.

 

let's see

9 unenchanted items

7 empty sockets in 5 items

Missing Ebonsteel Belt Buckle

Reforging

No items have been reforged.

Using tanking weapons as frost dps +4 to all stats in you're relic using a AGILITY TRINKET

tanking shoulders tanking waist 7 PVP ITEMS you're self(funny trying to kick someone for using pvp items when you you're self use them)

 

I'm sure my reason's is the reason you was kicked and not the made up one's you stated!!

 

To be honest, I don't understand the point the poster you quoted was trying to make. From what I read there, someone who equipped high enough level gear (but woefully wrong gear) to get into the instance was vote-kicked and is complaining about it. Does that not show accountability was enforced? Someone who was ill-prepared and thus could only hinder the group (or leech off them if the rest were good enough) got his just desserts, right?

[Blackardin]

My own Guild has around 400 members with 4 days a week regular raiding. We all use the LFG tool "AND" we run as guild groups. The idea that LFG ruins community is completely false.

 

So why are you here?

 

If you are running four raid nights a week, using the LFG (supposedly on alternate nights), how is it that you have time to play another game? Why would you even want to if you enjoy that so much.

 

Like much of the hyperbole here, I'm calling this one as yet another that just blindly seeks an LFG and will promulgate any falsehood to support the argument.

 

BTW, what guild. I'd like to armory them and check the numbers because we all know how guild membership reflects actual active players.