Leaving. SWTOR is not a datacron hunt, it is a vanity pet.

[Freon_Bale]

I am going to be cancelling my subscription, and I wanted to explain why, with the doubtful hope that the devs will pass this information upstream so games like this one will never be produced again.

 

SWTOR is incredibly polished, and if it had been released just before WoW, I would bet that 'WoW-clones' would have been called 'SWTOR-clones'. But the quantity of people who did play WoW was massive, bringing players into the genre who previously were not even aware that it existed. And that is the problem.

 

The majority of today's players are veterans of WoW, or titles like it. The novelty of creating and growing a character in a 3D environment has worn off. Game after game is released following WoW's basic model with a different theme glued to it. Quest to build a character, then repeat larger-scale quests/pvp to get new gear that is unneeded and fuels more repetition.

 

I believe we are at a nexus in the genre, and have probably been so since a year or two after WoW was released. No game that follows the above-mentioned model will ever be as successful as WoW again, and efforts to do so are a waste of money.

 

It is said that the journey is more important than the goal, or even that the journey IS the goal, and this is a major problem for developers. If the journey, which I am defining as character progression (leveling/skill leveling), is the goal, then no developer has the time, resources, and/or money to produce leveling content faster than the rate at which players can play it. This is the current fundamental problem with all existing quest-based MMOs. This is even more daunting for SWTOR, which has voice/acting for all quests.

 

I see only one solution. As Id showed us in the early 90's with DOOM .wad files, it is time for MMO developers to relinquish control and give content creation duty to the player community. The cumulative creative capacity of all existing developers from all gaming companies currently in business is barely a teardrop compared to the ocean of creativity the gaming community can supply. The developers role will need to change (which I believe scares them), from one of pure content creation, to that of large-scale content creation (whole worlds, story-based raids, game mechanics, etc) and overall supervision.

 

As it stands, SWTOR is boring. I now have several characters, which I have grinded to max level. I am worth over 10M credits from crafting, but find crafting repetitive and uninteresting. PvP is somewhat fun, but I rarely feel that sense of danger that might addict me. And even if pod-racing or twitch space combat were added, it would get old quickly. The rewards of SWTOR are meaningless and in many cases insulting (getting vanity pets, for instance).

 

For what it is, SWTOR is a good game, and I had to play because I am a huge SW fan. I thank you for that experience. But as a game with retention capacity, SWTOR is not a success imo.

 

So, please, please, keep making games, but for the love of Werdna, stop following WoW. I speak for many of my MMO peers when I say that we are waiting for something that is outside the box. If you cannot create it alone, then please give us a chance to do it with you. I believe that the first company to truly harness the players as a resource will dominate the industry and herald in what I see as the true next generation of the genre.

 

My two credits.

Edited April 30, 2012 by Freon_Bale
Did not like the old title

[zachbuford]

I believe that the first company to truly harness the players as a resource will dominate the industry and herald in what I see as the true next generation of the genre.

 

Star Wars Galaxies did exactly that, and was insainly popular till the day the servers were shut down for good. I agree with you on many points and find myself at a similar place. The video game market is competitive, and though I loved this game to bits it is not the same after making 3 50s, 2 of which are full rakata/black hole. My biggest beef with this game is that any time other than peak times it is nothing more than a shiny single player. I am retired so I play a lot, especially during non-peak times, finding a group for flashpoints or any other pve content is a wasted effort most of the time till people come back. I do not want a cross-server LFG, but a LFG tool for only your server (any ninjas or griefers will not be able to get away with it if their teamates are on the same server) would get several more subscription months from me.

[Cynomen]

Even though this is an "I'm leaving" thread, I like the way you are talking about why. It is constructive and mentions the issues affecting you.

 

As mentioned above me, SWG was that different type game. THAT game was for me, the best ever. Even with the changes, it still managed to keep be busy/interested. With that game gone, this took over and I do enjoy this game. It is missing a bunch of areas that I would love to see, but alas I need to deal with what I have. I don't like WoW.

 

I wish you all the best and perhaps you might find yourself back here again down the road.

Edited April 30, 2012 by Cynomen

[Tariand]

The most fun I've had with the game...Is meeting people, making friends, and going through content with those people. Let me be honest, a game is nothing but a game. When you're with friends, it's a different story.

 

You arn't just running through Ops for gear. You're chatting, joking with Guildies and celebrating once that difficult Boss is finally downed. That is what will really stick in your mind. After quitting the game, you'll forget about that weapon you picked up, but you'll always remember how the Ventrilo channel burst with cheers. How you were given pats on the back for being the one that sealed the deal.

 

To put it simply: Doing the content with people you enjoy being around makes the game a whole lot better of an experience. I couldn't ask for a better past-time.

 

At least, that's how I see it.

[SithMagician_X]

I am worth over 10M credits from crafting,

 

So... can I have your stuff?

[Sinaed]

Is Star Wars Galaxies Like a Minecraft MMO with a Star Wars feel to it?

 

Idk my parents played it pre cu and i heard it was a blast

[Kharnis]

I've got good news for you, OP (and no, I'm not being sarcastic). It would seem that Damion Schubert agrees with you on players being given content control.

[Xerkrom]

I was expecting this to be another, QQ i'm leaving thread, but it was a good read and i agree with you on many points.

[Krivoklat]

I am going to be cancelling my subscription, and I wanted to explain why, with the doubtful hope that the devs will pass this information upstream so games like this one will never be produced again.

 

SWTOR is incredibly polished, and if it had been released just before WoW, I would bet that 'WoW-clones' would have been called 'SWTOR-clones'. But the quantity of people who did play WoW was massive, bringing players into the genre who previously were not even aware that it existed. And that is the problem.

 

The majority of today's players are veterans of WoW, or titles like it. The novelty of creating and growing a character in a 3D environment has worn off. Game after game is released following WoW's basic model with a different theme glued to it. Quest to build a character, then repeat larger-scale quests/pvp to get new gear that is unneeded and fuels more repetition.

 

I believe we are at a nexus in the genre, and have probably been so since a year or two after WoW was released. No game that follows the above-mentioned model will ever be as successful as WoW again, and efforts to do so are a waste of money.

 

It is said that the journey is more important than the goal, or even that the journey IS the goal, and this is a major problem for developers. If the journey, which I am defining as character progression (leveling/skill leveling), is the goal, then no developer has the time, resources, and/or money to produce leveling content faster than the rate at which players can play it. This is the current fundamental problem with all existing quest-based MMOs. This is even more daunting for SWTOR, which has voice/acting for all quests.

 

I see only one solution. As Id showed us in the early 90's with DOOM .wad files, it is time for MMO developers to relinquish control and give content creation duty to the player community. The cumulative creative capacity of all existing developers from all gaming companies currently in business is barely a teardrop compared to the ocean of creativity the gaming community can supply. The developers role will need to change (which I believe scares them), from one of pure content creation, to that of large-scale content creation (whole worlds, story-based raids, game mechanics, etc) and overall supervision.

 

As it stands, SWTOR is boring. I now have several characters, which I have grinded to max level. I am worth over 10M credits from crafting, but find crafting repetitive and uninteresting. PvP is somewhat fun, but I rarely feel that sense of danger that might addict me. And even if pod-racing or twitch space combat were added, it would get old quickly. The rewards of SWTOR are meaningless and in many cases insulting (getting vanity pets, for instance).

 

For what it is, SWTOR is a good game, and I had to play because I am a huge SW fan. I thank you for that experience. But as a game with retention capacity, SWTOR is not a success imo.

 

So, please, please, keep making games, but for the love of Werdna, stop following WoW. I speak for many of my MMO peers when I say that we are waiting for something that is outside the box. If you cannot create it alone, then please give us a chance to do it with you. I believe that the first company to truly harness the players as a resource will dominate the industry and herald in what I see as the true next generation of the genre.

 

My two credits.

 

-please keep in mind that Bioware is the company that provided the industry with the Aurora Tool-set for the original (remake) of Neverwinter Nights.... which has IMO never been duplicated with any real success.

 

the sheer amount of custom worlds created that were then piloted by Game Masters actively spawning encounters, possessing NPC's and instantly creating content and adventure on the spot as well as long time story arcs that deeply involved active and casual players alike has (again, IMO) never been successfully duplicated.

 

I can hardly dream of a world with the content and interact-ability of SWTOR pared with a custom content creation tool that ALSO allows community members to not only run their own custom STAR WARS adventures, but also act as GAME MASTERS at the same time. holy crud, I'm already weak in the knees at the mere suggestion!

 

-ps

 

Bioware, I still have my NWN game installed and play every blue-moon or so with some old friends... talk about longevity!!

Edited May 1, 2012 by Krivoklat

[Jedi_Kevi]

they keep moving hte patch times up for westcoasters, and im going back to wow...

[nysis]

Having spent 6 years playing WOW, the things I love most about this game are the things that differ from WoW. If I want to play WoW ill go back. Im tired of WoW, things like legacy, your character not being a brick with no personality, companions with personality and interesting voiced and well done story are what keep me in this game. I have no desire to raid or pvp competitively. Ive been there and done that in wow.

 

I couldnt get into rift because they are so fixated on being WoW 2, that they forgot the reason people leave WoW is because they are tired of playing it. SWTOR is worth playing because of the qualities that make it NOT WOW. If I wanted to play wow i;d still be playing it.... (hint: Im tired of WoW)

Edited May 1, 2012 by nysis

[Veluthurk]

Good read. I hope BW takes some of the ideas the OP offered.

[Zimrianne]

I am going to be cancelling my subscription, and I wanted to explain why, with the doubtful hope that the devs will pass this information upstream so games like this one will never be produced again.

 

SWTOR is incredibly polished, and if it had been released just before WoW, I would bet that 'WoW-clones' would have been called 'SWTOR-clones'. But the quantity of people who did play WoW was massive, bringing players into the genre who previously were not even aware that it existed. And that is the problem.

 

The majority of today's players are veterans of WoW, or titles like it. The novelty of creating and growing a character in a 3D environment has worn off. Game after game is released following WoW's basic model with a different theme glued to it. Quest to build a character, then repeat larger-scale quests/pvp to get new gear that is unneeded and fuels more repetition.

 

I believe we are at a nexus in the genre, and have probably been so since a year or two after WoW was released. No game that follows the above-mentioned model will ever be as successful as WoW again, and efforts to do so are a waste of money.

 

It is said that the journey is more important than the goal, or even that the journey IS the goal, and this is a major problem for developers. If the journey, which I am defining as character progression (leveling/skill leveling), is the goal, then no developer has the time, resources, and/or money to produce leveling content faster than the rate at which players can play it. This is the current fundamental problem with all existing quest-based MMOs. This is even more daunting for SWTOR, which has voice/acting for all quests.

 

I see only one solution. As Id showed us in the early 90's with DOOM .wad files, it is time for MMO developers to relinquish control and give content creation duty to the player community. The cumulative creative capacity of all existing developers from all gaming companies currently in business is barely a teardrop compared to the ocean of creativity the gaming community can supply. The developers role will need to change (which I believe scares them), from one of pure content creation, to that of large-scale content creation (whole worlds, story-based raids, game mechanics, etc) and overall supervision.

 

As it stands, SWTOR is boring. I now have several characters, which I have grinded to max level. I am worth over 10M credits from crafting, but find crafting repetitive and uninteresting. PvP is somewhat fun, but I rarely feel that sense of danger that might addict me. And even if pod-racing or twitch space combat were added, it would get old quickly. The rewards of SWTOR are meaningless and in many cases insulting (getting vanity pets, for instance).

 

For what it is, SWTOR is a good game, and I had to play because I am a huge SW fan. I thank you for that experience. But as a game with retention capacity, SWTOR is not a success imo.

 

So, please, please, keep making games, but for the love of Werdna, stop following WoW. I speak for many of my MMO peers when I say that we are waiting for something that is outside the box. If you cannot create it alone, then please give us a chance to do it with you. I believe that the first company to truly harness the players as a resource will dominate the industry and herald in what I see as the true next generation of the genre.

 

My two credits.

 

That was a great read. I don't visit the forums often, but had to look up what a 'vanity pet' was, because I really didn't know. I stumbled in here random-clicking on thread titles. I think using the community, us, for creative inspirwation is a brilliant idea. I'm a Linux geek, and most distros are pretty community based, as far as testing, bug hunting (and 'killing'). I think it would work really well. It would be neat to see what 'we' could come up with as far as world/city design, story lines, etc. I'm sure there are some exceptionally talented people here. It would be inspiring to see what could come of it. It would be pretty awesome I think for players who get involved to see part of themselves in the game, something they helped create.

[offfspringfntc]

That was a great read. I don't visit the forums often, but had to look up what a 'vanity pet' was, because I really didn't know. I stumbled in here random-clicking on thread titles. I think using the community, us, for creative inspirwation is a brilliant idea. I'm a Linux geek, and most distros are pretty community based, as far as testing, bug hunting (and 'killing'). I think it would work really well. It would be neat to see what 'we' could come up with as far as world/city design, story lines, etc. I'm sure there are some exceptionally talented people here. It would be inspiring to see what could come of it. It would be pretty awesome I think for players who get involved to see part of themselves in the game, something they helped create.

 

You read a post from TWO YEARS AGO and found it to informative and topical. You thread necromancer you, congrats on reviving the dead.

 

ITS ALIVE

[taxidermis]

So... can I have your stuff?

 

Dang. I wanted his 10 mil.

 

 

Edit, nvm just saw the date on OP lol.

Edited February 6, 2014 by taxidermis

[AlrikFassbauer]

You read a post from TWO YEARS AGO and found it to informative and topical. You thread necromancer you, congrats on reviving the dead.

 

ITS ALIVE

 

Question is : How much has changed meanwhile ?

 

Meta-speaking ?

[DomiSotto]

Well, I spent previous 15 years playing single-player games and panicking at the mere mention of the word MMO or the idea that I have to mush buttons. Then I broke my foot in Dec and decided to run KOTOR2 that I saved in 2010 last time (RL) after char creation. Then I tentatively tried SWTOR, and bought a subscription 2 days into playing. That's the first day my husband and I could play as actual multiplayer (Baldur's Gate was a disaster). So, I guess, for however many WoW players out there, there could just be the old-fashioned SP players like us, who would have never touched a MMO if it did not have Bio name and quality attached to it. Edited February 7, 2014 by DomiSotto

[ImmortalLowlife]

.....So, I guess, for however many WoW players out there, there could just be the old-fashioned SP players like us, who would have never touched a MMO if it did not have Bio name and quality attached to it.

 

Yep that's me too. I've been a SP player since pong. Never had the slightest desire to play an MMO, or ANY game on a PC. Because of my schedule at the time I missed out on SWG. But I'm here now for the reasons mentioned above.

 

Back on topic tho....I'm not sure exactly how player created content works, but it'd be interesting to see what players could come up with if given an empty planet or two to work with.

[Pantaro]

I am going to be cancelling my subscription, and I wanted to explain why, with the doubtful hope that the devs will pass this information upstream so games like this one will never be produced again.

 

SWTOR is incredibly polished, and if it had been released just before WoW, I would bet that 'WoW-clones' would have been called 'SWTOR-clones'. But the quantity of people who did play WoW was massive, bringing players into the genre who previously were not even aware that it existed. And that is the problem.

 

The majority of today's players are veterans of WoW, or titles like it. The novelty of creating and growing a character in a 3D environment has worn off. Game after game is released following WoW's basic model with a different theme glued to it. Quest to build a character, then repeat larger-scale quests/pvp to get new gear that is unneeded and fuels more repetition.

 

I believe we are at a nexus in the genre, and have probably been so since a year or two after WoW was released. No game that follows the above-mentioned model will ever be as successful as WoW again, and efforts to do so are a waste of money.

 

It is said that the journey is more important than the goal, or even that the journey IS the goal, and this is a major problem for developers. If the journey, which I am defining as character progression (leveling/skill leveling), is the goal, then no developer has the time, resources, and/or money to produce leveling content faster than the rate at which players can play it. This is the current fundamental problem with all existing quest-based MMOs. This is even more daunting for SWTOR, which has voice/acting for all quests.

 

I see only one solution. As Id showed us in the early 90's with DOOM .wad files, it is time for MMO developers to relinquish control and give content creation duty to the player community. The cumulative creative capacity of all existing developers from all gaming companies currently in business is barely a teardrop compared to the ocean of creativity the gaming community can supply. The developers role will need to change (which I believe scares them), from one of pure content creation, to that of large-scale content creation (whole worlds, story-based raids, game mechanics, etc) and overall supervision.

 

As it stands, SWTOR is boring. I now have several characters, which I have grinded to max level. I am worth over 10M credits from crafting, but find crafting repetitive and uninteresting. PvP is somewhat fun, but I rarely feel that sense of danger that might addict me. And even if pod-racing or twitch space combat were added, it would get old quickly. The rewards of SWTOR are meaningless and in many cases insulting (getting vanity pets, for instance).

 

For what it is, SWTOR is a good game, and I had to play because I am a huge SW fan. I thank you for that experience. But as a game with retention capacity, SWTOR is not a success imo.

 

So, please, please, keep making games, but for the love of Werdna, stop following WoW. I speak for many of my MMO peers when I say that we are waiting for something that is outside the box. If you cannot create it alone, then please give us a chance to do it with you. I believe that the first company to truly harness the players as a resource will dominate the industry and herald in what I see as the true next generation of the genre.

 

My two credits.

 

Most constructive and fact based good bye post i have EVER seen!

 

so much truth to this,must read hopefully many do,shame it was such an old post it's insanely relevant now lol

Edited February 8, 2014 by Pantaro

[CyberneticDucks]

I am going to be cancelling my subscription, and I wanted to explain why, with the doubtful hope that the devs will pass this information upstream so games like this one will never be produced again.

 

SWTOR is incredibly polished, and if it had been released just before WoW, I would bet that 'WoW-clones' would have been called 'SWTOR-clones'. But the quantity of people who did play WoW was massive, bringing players into the genre who previously were not even aware that it existed. And that is the problem.

 

The majority of today's players are veterans of WoW, or titles like it. The novelty of creating and growing a character in a 3D environment has worn off. Game after game is released following WoW's basic model with a different theme glued to it. Quest to build a character, then repeat larger-scale quests/pvp to get new gear that is unneeded and fuels more repetition.

 

I believe we are at a nexus in the genre, and have probably been so since a year or two after WoW was released. No game that follows the above-mentioned model will ever be as successful as WoW again, and efforts to do so are a waste of money.

 

It is said that the journey is more important than the goal, or even that the journey IS the goal, and this is a major problem for developers. If the journey, which I am defining as character progression (leveling/skill leveling), is the goal, then no developer has the time, resources, and/or money to produce leveling content faster than the rate at which players can play it. This is the current fundamental problem with all existing quest-based MMOs. This is even more daunting for SWTOR, which has voice/acting for all quests.

 

I see only one solution. As Id showed us in the early 90's with DOOM .wad files, it is time for MMO developers to relinquish control and give content creation duty to the player community. The cumulative creative capacity of all existing developers from all gaming companies currently in business is barely a teardrop compared to the ocean of creativity the gaming community can supply. The developers role will need to change (which I believe scares them), from one of pure content creation, to that of large-scale content creation (whole worlds, story-based raids, game mechanics, etc) and overall supervision.

 

As it stands, SWTOR is boring. I now have several characters, which I have grinded to max level. I am worth over 10M credits from crafting, but find crafting repetitive and uninteresting. PvP is somewhat fun, but I rarely feel that sense of danger that might addict me. And even if pod-racing or twitch space combat were added, it would get old quickly. The rewards of SWTOR are meaningless and in many cases insulting (getting vanity pets, for instance).

 

For what it is, SWTOR is a good game, and I had to play because I am a huge SW fan. I thank you for that experience. But as a game with retention capacity, SWTOR is not a success imo.

 

So, please, please, keep making games, but for the love of Werdna, stop following WoW. I speak for many of my MMO peers when I say that we are waiting for something that is outside the box. If you cannot create it alone, then please give us a chance to do it with you. I believe that the first company to truly harness the players as a resource will dominate the industry and herald in what I see as the true next generation of the genre.

 

My two credits.

 

it would be nice if they made more content, but i don't think letting the community do all the work is such a good idea. there would be people who either don't care about the game as much as people like me, or there would be people who enjoy screwing things up and making the rest of us unhappy. some people want to do good but lack creativity.

[rynlath]

I just got back from play Elderscroll Online Beta and after experiencing the world there, I feel let down here. I love Star Wars, the books, comic books, heck I used to even collect the toys (which I stopped when they just redid the same action figure for more money and a different package). I have been with this game since the beginning of start up.

 

But, yet I look at other MMO like Guild Wars 2 (which I played a little bit) and what Elderscroll is doing in allowing the world to move along in its story. Its kind of hard to explain I guess, it just seems as if Old Republic is stagnant. As if the story of the game is stuck in place for a long while now. Maybe the developers painted themselves in a corner? From what I hear is that there isn't going to be anything more done on the class storyline. IF that's the case what is the point? I mean we can "rp" our characters to death, but in the end the story is still the same. I just don't know maybe too for me my time here is done for awhile. Its funny sometimes how we become attached to gaming community, but like all relationships there must be a constant growing.

[JattaGin]

So, please, please, keep making games, but for the love of Werdna, stop following WoW.

 

Wow. I haven't heard his name in a very, very long time. But, those were the days.

[Uber_the_Goober]

I just got back from play Elderscroll Online Beta and after experiencing the world there, I feel let down here.

 

I got exactly the OPPOSITE impression from the ESO beta.

 

I hope they polish and fix that thing up a bit in the coming year - because I sure won't be spending a dime on it as it stands.

[Bigbazz]

This is a 2 year old thread, so discussion is hardly relevant to the OP now. Either way I think he had a lot of great points, he should realise though that developers are scared (were definitely back then) of deviating from the WoW model as it was so sucessful, while SWTOR was in development and going through beta World of Warcraft was at the height of its popularity and whilst veteran players were well aware of where the genre needed to evolve the numbers on paper pointed to the WoW formula being a goldmine.

 

We're in 2014 now and the aftereffects of the WoW formula are still seen in TESO, it's a slight evolution of the formula but they haven't strayed too far at all. The only game I see that is innovating is Everquest Next, though I'm sure many people were of the opinion as far back as 2009 that future games needed massive evolution, it has taken this long for the industry to begin to catch on.

 

I still think the WoW formula makes an excellent game, WoW itself is still massively succesful and SWTOR being a child of that formula is still an excellent game, I'm not a hardcore SWTOR player and I will not likely ever play for months at a time like I once did in WoW during 2007-2011, but I'm playing this game with a friend and as a co-op experience it is immensly engaging and enjoyable, challenging and fun. Perhaps that won't be the case later down the line, but that is inevitable.

[rynlath]

DUH! that's why its called BETA. And I'm sorry but the environment in that game and the texture of it actually made you feel like you were on a beach and what you can actually go in the water and have it get deeper and deeper so that you have to tread water (sadly could not go under water). Instead of all the water you go through on this game is waste deep. OH WAIT! there is more to finally have night and day, oh my gosh! Night and Day I guess in a galaxy far far away we don't need deep water or night and day we have evolved lol.

 

I agree too that Everquest Next is evolving too and from what I've read seems to be another good MMO.

Edited February 11, 2014 by rynlath