Swg > swtor

[mefit]

don't be a tard, if you want to compare, compare subs vs the total market you goon the mmo market at launch of TOR was HUGE compared to the swg days, so when it comes to %marketshare SWG likely did beat SWTOR hands down....

 

SHould take you own advice ^

 

SWG had the lowest Subs active period

SWG didn't have good opening day percentages for its time , it laughable to compare it to MMOs around its timeline

EQ1 had better opening Live Accounts than SWG

WoW .....lol had more live accounts opening day

Lineage II .......Had more live accounts opening day

Final Fantasy XI ..........more live accounts opening day

Pretty sure Eve too but I have no facts on that one

^all games above came out around the time or before SWG and all are Active and still going with more Active accounts than SWG ever hand.

To be honest when SWG came out I thought it was going to blow away everything else MMO wise out the water just being StarWars alone but boy was I wrong . To say Sandbox Games do not make it, well Eve, EQ1, and Lineage II are pretty Sandboxy and still going.

 

SWG had alot of ideas that weren't appealing to the overall MMO community and it failed for it, and failed even worse when trying to fix it . SWG will always be the example for what to not do in MMOs weither it be from the NGE to horrid stories to the No Lifer content , it just was not a appealing game in the longrun .

 

Believe me when I say , I wish it was still playable . I only wish that because I know if my game had closed down with short notice like SWG did I would be upset too

 

You would like to say it would have had more active accounts opening day if it came out today but by the numbers and how it compared to games at its own time , it did not fair well even then .

 

SWTOR > SWG , we live in a world of profits and numbers , If we lived in the world of small communities , SWG would win all day !

[mefit]

I definitaly enjoy TOR and i think this game is good as well. I dont get the 'highlander" view point so many people have on these forums. There can be more than ONE.

 

I agree with you there, I think TOR and SWG could coexisted with no issues . To Be honest , TOR might have brought more Subs to SWG and the other way around .

 

Final Fantasy 11 and 14 are both active and playable

Ever Quest 1 and 2 are both active and playable

 

I do think it was shortsided to just close SWG doors like they did and it was even more sad that SOE gave little time notice that it was gonna happen , to me it seemed like SOE just did not care much for that game outside of getting what they could out of it .

Edited May 3, 2012 by mefit

[Mancer]

I miss SWG, Tarquinas server for me.

Anyone here miss the beam of light waypoint system?

[river]

You mean no-one else apart from those SWG fans, right? Yeah, they care. Does that not tell you something about the Pre-CU SWG? The fact that there are people out there who have spent nearly the past 8? 10? years putting together the Emulator. Does that not tell you something about those people who played it?

 

What about that on these forums, for TOR, one of the more repeating threads that crops up is about SWG, and who played on what server? Sharing the memories they made, remembering old friends they thought they had forgotten, and indeed, sometimes, bumping into those friends.

 

For a game that was so bug-ridden, how is it possible that it has such a loyal fan base? Rose tinted glasses aside, or whatever you want to call it, that loyalty had to start somewhere.

 

We know that only SWG fans will care about the day SWG died, much the same way I really couldn't care less about the ME3 finale screw up. The ME games were good, but not that good. This is why I don't bother posting in any threads about Mass Effect. I don't care enough about the game to give a damn, therefore I'll not bother posting. I just wish others felt the same way about games they didn't care about.

 

So, in these threads where us old SWG fans come to discuss the various aspects of the game, and how they compare to TOR (as the only other Star Wars MMO out there), why, oh, why, are there always people who don't care about SWG coming in here and whining that our game is gone? We know that it is gone, until the Emulator is finished, of course. We don't need to be reminded, and we don't need to be constantly told to 'get over it'. We don't care that you don't care. We just wish that if you truly didn't care, you would leave us alone to discuss our game in peace.

 

But then, that is something that modern MMO players, who never got to see what the real SWG was like, would never get. Most MMOs these days have only a very minimalistic community to them, so most people who play them probably don't realise that in a game like SWG, where everything depends on other players, you actually get a very good community spirit. This is the main reason why we keep coming back to SWG, why we have such good memories from playing SWG, and why after so many years, we still remember people we played with.

 

well put, this game after you reach lvl 50 is a wow clone i wish they tried to make a nice mix between themepark and sandbox cause the way thigns are going right now i dont think ill be here passed the summer

[EzoEo]

well put, this game after you reach lvl 50 is a wow clone i wish they tried to make a nice mix between themepark and sandbox cause the way thigns are going right now i dont think ill be here passed the summer

 

Maybe you can enlighten us to what a "wow clone" is. I seen the term used for years but nobody will actually bother to explain exactly what some modern MMOs have "cloned" from Blizzards effort.

 

For the record KOTOR pre-dated WoW by a year and uses many of the RPG systems you see in RPGS such as click to use skills, quest givers and level based path progression so that would actually make WoW a KOTOR clone.

 

Blizzard did not invent anything that wasn't already around and WoW just cloned the likes of Everquest with progression and Everquest 2 with its quests.

 

So I will ask again what is a "wow clone" ? Answers on a post card please.

Edited May 3, 2012 by EzoEo

[SerikFox]

SWG is way better than SWTOR in every aspect. im not saying SWTOR is bad however no one can deny its a wow clone.

 

SWG PvP Video, compare this to pvp in swtor and see for yourself which is better

 

 

Ok. I have to say: I played SWG for over 5 years and I was really good at it. I always loved it and enjoyed the combat etc. But, simply said, pvp in swg had way to many issues to be called better than this game. Combat is so much smoother and less buggy in this game that it isn't even funny. SWG had a bunch of aspects for pvp right; but simply, the game did not measure up to this one for actual gameplay. It really didn't. I can't one-hit someone on this game. I did it as a spy, a bh, and a smuggler on swg. I'm talking 20-30k hits after armor. "Buff wars begin". Under the right circumstances, my damage increase could well exceed over 140% or more on swg. That's without counting a crit. I could kill people within 3-6 seconds most of the time with standard buffs. Anyone who says this game is a "gear war" never played swg. They had a gear war and a buff war going. You could not have a good medic without top lvl everything gear. Wasn't possible. Grenadier mando was totally worthless (I tried for quite a while before giving up; simply couldn't get the stats to work with it). LOS was a major issue. Attacks failed to fire way more often then they should have. Medics were a little out of control (My mains were medic and BH) - I could heal myself against 3 people and stay standing long enough for backup most of the time. And with the final medic update I could personally take out 4 people myself because they gave me unlimited action. Running away from fights was just ridiculous in that game. 60% of the expertise trees in the game was worthless. And while I liked the stats; they had some issues. They also way overinflated the classes (took out SK in a knight *robe* with 3 buffs solo as a dsj because they had not updated any older parts of the game accordingly. I also solo'd NK without healing at all - many times over.) Certain classes (jedi and mando being the worst) were too simplistic as well. The only parts of swg that beat SWTOR were crafting, space, and the general design and layout of the game. Now, take this game engine and re-do swg with it, and I would be in heaven.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Maybe you can enlighten us to what a "wow clone" is. I seen the term used for years but nobody will actually bother to explain exactly what some modern MMOs have "cloned" from Blizzards effort.

 

For the record KOTOR pre-dated WoW by a year and uses many of the RPG systems you see in RPGS such as click to use skills, quest givers and level based path progression so that would actually make WoW a KOTOR clone.

 

Blizzard did not invent anything that wasn't already around and WoW just cloned the likes of Everquest with progression and Everquest 2 with its quests.

 

So I will ask again what is a "wow clone" ? Answers on a post card please.

 

I would like to know this too.

[veyl]

If they would've mixed the Pre-cu update (+JTL though) with the Current Design, this game would've been an insane hybrid of craziness and I probably would never have any reason to try another MMO again for as long as that existed.

 

That would've took a lot of balls on Biowares behalf to do and something incredibly innovative and daring in the Gaming community.

 

UNFORTUNATELY: They decided to follow the safe route with a small innovation. (Full Dialogue only gets you so far, that's the only innovation this game has done over others.)

[Bluerodian]

Maybe you can enlighten us to what a "wow clone" is. I seen the term used for years but nobody will actually bother to explain exactly what some modern MMOs have "cloned" from Blizzards effort.

 

For the record KOTOR pre-dated WoW by a year and uses many of the RPG systems you see in RPGS such as click to use skills, quest givers and level based path progression so that would actually make WoW a KOTOR clone.

 

Blizzard did not invent anything that wasn't already around and WoW just cloned the likes of Everquest with progression and Everquest 2 with its quests.

 

So I will ask again what is a "wow clone" ? Answers on a post card please.

 

I'll take a stab at it.

 

WoW took from other games, improved upon them, streamlined the systems, and made overall improvements.

 

A WoW clone, straight up nicked what wow had already done without any significant merit or alteration. Less borrowing from an idea to make it better and more making a cheap knock-off to cash in.

 

WoW evolved from EQ. Rift, AOC, WAR, TOR all knocked off WoW.

 

I might also add that WoW is a freakish accident of the MMO industry. There was never a game before nor will there ever be a game after that generates that large a sub base and constantly chasing it, as the industry has been doing for years now, is going to be ultimately self-defeating. The entire Industry has come to an evolutionary dead-end.

Edited May 3, 2012 by Bluerodian

[EzoEo]

I'll take a stab at it.

 

WoW took from other games, improved upon them, streamlined the systems, and made overall improvements.

 

A WoW clone, straight up nicked what wow had already done without any significant merit or alteration. Less borrowing from an idea to make it better and more making a cheap knock-off to cash in.

 

WoW evolved from EQ. Rift, AOC, WAR, TOR all knocked off WoW.

 

I might also add that WoW is a freakish accident of the MMO industry. There was never a game before nor will there ever be a game after that generates that large a sub base and constantly chasing it, as the industry has been doing for years now, is going to be ultimately self-defeating. The entire Industry has come to an evolutionary dead-end.

 

So really WoW just cloned Everquest added question marks above NPCs heads and is somehow regarded as the father of modern day MMOs.

 

If it was not for Ultima, Meridan, Star Wars:Galaxies and Everquest that Blizzard might have even bothered to develop and MMO.

 

Blizzard do as they usually have done and borrow other peoples ideas to make their own. They took Command and Conquer added aliens then along came Starcraft.

 

It was a vague response which still didn't really answer the question and maybe because people just coin the term "wow clone" for arguments sake.

 

So what exactly did SW:TOR clone from WoW that Blizzard had now borrowed from other RPGS ?

[monkeydud]

SWG is NOT > SWTOR cos last time I checked SWG is dead and gone. It MAY have been a better game but ultimately its a boring recycled argument.

Why can people not just enjoy SWTOR for what it is?

Oh wait we are talking about the internet here.. silly me

[Bluerodian]

So really WoW just cloned Everquest added question marks above NPCs heads and is somehow regarded as the father of modern day MMOs.

 

If it was not for Ultima, Meridan, Star Wars:Galaxies and Everquest that Blizzard might have even bothered to develop and MMO.

 

Blizzard do as they usually have done and borrow other peoples ideas to make their own. They took Command and Conquer added aliens then along came Starcraft.

 

It was a vague response which still didn't really answer the question and maybe because people just coin the term "wow clone" for arguments sake.

 

So what exactly did SW:TOR clone from WoW that Blizzard had now borrowed from other RPGS ?

 

That's just is. WoW borrowed from other games and other games in turn borrowed from WoW. The reason that they are termed WoW clones is a simple nomenclature nowadays. It's been added to the language of the average gamer. The reason is because WoW is the elephant in the room, so to speak. It swelled up to butterball proportions so it became the most visible target.

 

It's the same reason a crappy low pay job, regardless of where it takes place, is called a McJob.

 

Regardless of what you call it, though, the definition is the same. WoW borrowed from other games and streamlined them, others borrowed from what WoW had already did, but made no further refinements. There are two possible reasons for this. One is that they were just looking to make as close a game to WoW as possible without it actually being WoW or, as I stated before, the industry has reached an evolutionary dead end and further refinement is impossible.

Edited May 4, 2012 by Bluerodian

[dazednconfuzed]

That's just is. WoW borrowed from other games and other games in turn borrowed from WoW. The reason that they are termed WoW clones is a simple nomenclature nowadays. It's been added to the language of the average gamer. The reason is because WoW is the elephant in the room, so to speak. It swelled up to butterball proportions so it became the most visible target.

 

Well explained.

 

How many WoW players are going to recognise the term EQ-clone? Sure, some of them will, but for many, WoW was their first MMO. It is the one that pushed MMOs into the mainstream, the one that everyone has heard of, whether they are 8 or 80, just about.

 

That is why the term WoW-clone is used.

[dazednconfuzed]

If they would've mixed the Pre-cu update (+JTL though) with the Current Design, this game would've been an insane hybrid of craziness and I probably would never have any reason to try another MMO again for as long as that existed.

 

I'd have loved to have seen this. Pre-CU's professions, crafting, and open planets. TOR's storylines and cutscenes.

 

Would have been brilliant.

[requius]

I really wish I had gone and played SWG. I started in CoH in 2004 and hopped from WoW to CoH sporadically since then. I got bored with both and was looking for a new game. Being on a Mac is difficult. But my brother got his custom built and I am LOVING this game. Keep hearing about the awesomeness that was SWG, especially before SoE consolidated it.

[Mossesman]

If SWG is better than SWTOR...then why has SWTOR gotten more subs in its first 3 - 4 months than SWG did in its whole lifetime?

[Zainichi]

If SWG is better than SWTOR...then why has SWTOR gotten more subs in its first 3 - 4 months than SWG did in its whole lifetime?

 

Maybe because they had such a larger budget in producing SWTOR that they actually spent a lot of money advertising the game? The game has been advertised on the internet, newspapers, magazines and on TV in many countries around the world. SWG did almost no advertising, not even when they were competing against WOW.

 

Try and understand this aswell. In 2003 when SWG was released, the MMO community was smaller than it was in 2011. SWG was also competing against what would later be the most succesfull MMO to date, WOW. And on top of that, Im pretty sure a large portion of the player base here in SWTOR are burned out WOW players who came in hopes of trying something new and different.

[jarjarloves]

Maybe because they had such a larger budget in producing SWTOR that they actually spent a lot of money advertising the game? The game has been advertised on the internet, newspapers, magazines and on TV in many countries around the world. SWG did almost no advertising, not even when they were competing against WOW.

 

Try and understand this aswell. In 2003 when SWG was released, the MMO community was smaller than it was in 2011. SWG was also competing against what would later be the most succesfull MMO to date, WOW. And on top of that, Im pretty sure a large portion of the player base here in SWTOR are burned out WOW players who came in hopes of trying something new and different.

Even if you just look at percentages, swg lost a much higher percent of their subs after launch

[TSgtSeuss]

I started playing SW:G on launch day. Before my initial month was up, I had already renewed for a 6 month subscription. I was absolutely enthralled by the massive, beautiful open worlds, the amazing and unique crafting system and player housing... It felt like I was IN the Star Wars Universe, and it was glorious.

 

Shortly after my first month, I changed Spec from a Droid Engineer to Doctor / Pikeman to try to find more end-game content. Instead I found myself on Dathomir, soloing 6-7 rancor at once... Really? What possible end-game could there be if I could SOLO 7 rancor at once? Then I realized there WAS no end-game content... This was as good as it was gonna get.

 

To make matters worse, EVERY patch seemed to add one or two things to the game and break thirty. And on top of that, SOE kept dangling the carrot in front of us that there was a way to become a Jedi... But nobody had found it yet. Seriously? 7 months in to ANY MMO, there are hardcore players that would have seen and done everything... Month by month, we'd get reports that "There's a player that's about 70% through the mission to become a Jedi"... Of course, nobody ever got it until there was a patch one day, then EVERYBODY got it. SW:G was unfinished at release (like, Alpha unfinished, not even Beta unfinished...) SOE couldn't "complete" the game without alienating the whole community.

 

In short (IMO) SWTOR is far and away a better "game," but SW:G had more (squandered) potential than any other game I've seen before or since. It's quite a shame, really.

[grandmthethird]

SWG is gone because they didnt' have the numbers anymore. this tells its own story. should note that although fans of sandbox games seem to be very vocal and quite fanatical they don't seem to be large in numbers as they think they are.

 

don't get me wrong its a shame i also love a good sandbox game, but for a game to be a success they have to appeal to the larger market. in todays world that is casual, and casual is not something you can call a sandbox game. maybe more sandbox elements will be added to swtor. but as for a pure sandbox game, i believe its a dying breed

[Bluerodian]

Even if you just look at percentages, swg lost a much higher percent of their subs after launch

 

SWG had great concepts, but it got Sonied which is why it's where it is now.

[SentinelThain]

If SWG is better than SWTOR...then why has SWTOR gotten more subs in its first 3 - 4 months than SWG did in its whole lifetime?

When swg came out mmo's were nowhere near as popular as they are now.Thats why.

It was a great game let down by terribad decisions by soe and la chasing the wow crowd.And also by pandering to the I want I want it now kiddie crew which brought in the nge bollox.

[sly_swg]

If SWG is better than SWTOR...then why has SWTOR gotten more subs in its first 3 - 4 months than SWG did in its whole lifetime?

 

You also sometimes wonder that "if the Ford T was such a special car why did it sell less than a Trabant"?

 

Oh there WAS a way to become jedi, and there WERE a few jedi per server before "the village" It was called Hologrinding.....At character creation a number (6 or 8) out of the 32 professions was randomly selected, if your character mastered ALL of these you unlocked your jedi slot.

 

You could get tips for some of the profession by using holocron, but some (1-3) always remainded "blind", hence "hologrinding, which basicly came down to master profession after profession.

 

 

For every 'rose tinted goggles" remark I have to say a lot of the "bad stuff" being claimed are equally wrong....as above claim for example....oh and there was endgame....just not cookie cutter like in other mmo's

[Wolfninjajedi]

The good things about SWG imo the stuff, that I enjoyed were these things. (Note I actually arrived, right when the NGE came up.)

--------

 

1. Housing- I didn't really have a house per-say, my house in SWG was pretty much my YT-2400 and even then it wasn't a house I just had a huge load of stuff on it. Even decked out one of the rooms, into a small mobile Rebel Alliance command center. I did however have a house on Naboo, though it wasn't a house again...it was a lair for tauntauns dubbed "Lair of the Tauntauns." As you can imagine it had holo tauntaun pets running around everywhere,(think if I am remembering...there was....7 of them?) it also snowed inside, had other tauntaun/hoth related things I liked it. Hence my sig as me being the Tauntaun King, I also had an armored tauntaun.

 

Funny fact: On my YT-2400 I had over 100 different weapons, I was ready for a boarding party lol was one heavily armed smuggler.

 

2. Armor- I liked this, i'll say. Getting the armor re-crafted though was a pain, and it wasn't until the Hoth stuff came around that I got the armor I really wanted. When I got the rebel hoth armor set, I was excited looked just like the set from the movies, I also went commando for a time and used an A280 blaster rifle and had a barrel of fun playing like a SpecForce Wilderness Fighter...was awesome. I also had a full set of neutral clone armor with both the DC-15 rifle and carbine, was a neat set too.

 

3. Heroics- ....Ehh...the only ones I really enjoyed, was IG-88 and Hoth. IG-88 because...well its IG-88 and Hoth because it was different then the other instances....it was more fun, plus ya got to fly snowspeeders.

 

4. Collections- This...was ok for me, got some neat things, was especially happy when I got my IG-88 statue that was pretty neat. Also finally getting the new cloaks, was nice to have.

 

5. Space- Was neat, got myself an adv X-wing w/R5 unit, a decked out YT-2400, and I also got a V-wing too...that was cool. But it was for the most part pretty empty(least on my sever.), did have fun taking out the SD from time to time, before it bugged.

 

6. Vehicles- Was nice too, got the reb faction BARC, had a jetpack(later sold it), an AT-RT, AT-XT, and an AT-PT all nice mounts that I liked.

---------

 

At the end of it all, SWG was a nice game to where you could play and make friends however it wasn't something really keep attention unless you were brand new. Problem was, or at least a BIG problem was is that the devs took far too long with content and at the end threw it atmospheric flight and a bunch of other things...when they really should have done it way before. Make no mistake though, I prefer TOR a lot more.

 

A big problem(at least for myself) was making credits, you pretty much had to play the market which I was no good at. Thus I felt very poor all the time, it wasn't near till the end of the game I reached 100mil and I was so happy....but now at least here credits are easy to come by, so I don't feel dirt poor.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

[Nisdec]

Of course, nobody ever got it until there was a patch one day, then EVERYBODY got it.

I can't tell you how wrong you are....

 

"The first Force-sensitive character slot was unlocked on 7 November 2003."

 

3 months right after launch.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Nisdec