Operative Healers vs Sorcs/Mercs in PvP?

[exphryl]

I am kind of trying to understand the design intent with healers here and having a hard time wrapping my head around it. No, I'm not saying Nerf Operative Healers, just mainly the comparison between Sorcs and Merc healers seem skewed very greatly.

 

I don't play any of the above actively in PvP at 50 (Crafting Mules) so I am basing it on the healers I kill, and the ones we bring with our pre-made that keep me up.

 

Why take a Sorc or Merc over an Operative Healer?

 

Operatives have strong instant heals, mobility, and because of that need less baby sitting as they can kite and keep attackers off them for long periods of time while still healing up their team. They are also the hardest to kill for me (And this is coming from probably the highest burst class out there).

 

Sorcs and Mercs, while don't get me wrong, can heal very well, I just feel like their survivability is so much lower and they have a harder time healing around them when being focused. Which, in an active group environment is quite a hindrance. As an attacker it's relatively easy to kill either of those two and I do not have to rely on lucky crits to achieve it.

 

I just feel there is a strong disparity between OPs and the other two. I won't say if it's the fact OPs are too strong and need a "nerf", or the fact Sorcs/Mercs are too weak and need a buff.

 

What am I missing here between these Healers as to why I am gaining an opinion like this?

[DamsonRhee]

just horrible balancing with the game and really just having three different AC healers

 

my big question is where all the crybabies who were calling out Sorc/Sage nerfs pls.

they must have either left the game crying or finally got good enough to take one down and then chalk it up to 1.2 nerfs.

 

overall healers are just gimped with the revamp to dps with exception to op healers

[Aetou]

1) Bubbles save lives. Scoundrels don't have anything that can heal for enough instantly to save somebody who is dying and buy time for the big heal. Hoping EMP crits in a chain is not a reliable solution.

 

2) Salvation is the most efficient heal in the game. Seriously, this ability is awesome - you can drop it near a busy turret in Civil War and easily be healing 5 or 6 people at the same time for far from insignificant amounts.

 

3) Force Sprint on a 30s CD means that it is dubious that Scoundrels can escape better, or redeploy between locations better. Yes, a Scoundrel is better at spamming self-heals while kiting but we rarely actually survive that way unless another healer throws some love our way.

 

Don't misunderstand me, I love my Sawbones but the idea that a Sawbones is so much better than a Sage is a joke. They have different styles, ideally you want one of each as they compliment each other well.

[skarlson]

1) Bubbles save lives. Scoundrels don't have anything that can heal for enough instantly to save somebody who is dying and buy time for the big heal. Hoping EMP crits in a chain is not a reliable solution.

 

2) Salvation is the most efficient heal in the game. Seriously, this ability is awesome - you can drop it near a busy turret in Civil War and easily be healing 5 or 6 people at the same time for far from insignificant amounts.

 

3) Force Sprint on a 30s CD means that it is dubious that Scoundrels can escape better, or redeploy between locations better. Yes, a Scoundrel is better at spamming self-heals while kiting but we rarely actually survive that way unless another healer throws some love our way.

 

Don't misunderstand me, I love my Sawbones but the idea that a Sawbones is so much better than a Sage is a joke. They have different styles, ideally you want one of each as they compliment each other well.

 

The original poster is correct. As a dps sorc in the best pvp gear available until people start getting into WH gear and optimizing with mods I can tell you without a doubt who is easier to kill. A sorc is by far the easiest to kill. Save your relic and reck for when the bub pops then 2x lb them down to nothing almost instantly. Follow this by the tank healers who are much harder to kill due to their dmg shields and interrupt immunity. It requires some well timed stuns and interrupts and this is after their damage shield is off. Finally we have the operative healer who is by far the most difficult to pin down because they are completely mobile. It changes a bit when you factor in pillar humping but then all 3 classes can do this so even here the most mobile class has the largest advantage.

[polopopoo]

GO MERCS!!! We are amazing as long as people dont los the heal, move away from us and no one one with an interupt is 50 meters or closer.

 

WTB mobility, hots, defensive cooldowns, the ability to throw more than 4 consecutive heals, or any utility. Guess i'll continue being baby sat to do my job properly.

[Yeldarps]

GO MERCS!!! We are amazing as long as people dont los the heal, move away from us and no one one with an interupt is 50 meters or closer.

 

WTB mobility, hots, defensive cooldowns, the ability to throw more than 4 consecutive heals, or any utility. Guess i'll continue being baby sat to do my job properly.

 

Get outta this thread!

[SinnedQWERTY]

Seen it all now, thanks. People starting to complain about op healing being to good now also.

 

Edited April 30, 2012 by SinnedQWERTY

[polopopoo]

Seen it all now, thanks. People starting to complain about op healing being to good now also.

 

 

Ops are fine, others are not.

[Masturomenos]

Bh heals shouldnt even be considered as a healer. Theyve been completely disassembled in pvp. They have nothing to offer a group. There is nothing they do anoher healer cant to better with less effort. A bh healer in warhero is not as good as an op or sorc in recuit gear. Thats just what they can do there are alot more things sorcs and ops can do a bh doesnt even poses to evenbe worse then them at. Now dont get me wrong u spit on a sorc and they die but atleast they don run out of resources between deaths so they can get off atleast 10 heals before being killed. A bh cant cast more then 7 times without using a cd or becoming resouce starved. There is no where but up to go as a bh atleast. Bh healers dont even need to be killed all u have to do is dps their target for moe then 10k hp and wait for the bh to heal them since at that point they will have no more heat to use to heal anymore damage. Forget a group enviroment a bh healer cannot even 1v1 another class and live.

 

Ops are good but not awesome. Bh heals and sorcs need to be brought up to them not the other way around. One more heal nerf and healing will not exist anymore its already barely hanging on. Healing is broken. Bh healers are just disturbingly bad in pvp regardless of who is playing them no amount of skill will make up for what bioware did to them in 1.2.

[Paganos]

just horrible balancing with the game and really just having three different AC healers

 

my big question is where all the crybabies who were calling out Sorc/Sage nerfs pls.

they must have either left the game crying or finally got good enough to take one down and then chalk it up to 1.2 nerfs.

 

overall healers are just gimped with the revamp to dps with exception to op healers

 

They are now all crying about senti/maras even though they only got a small buff (everyone else just got nerfed), no I don't play one I prefer to play kc shadow or seer sage

[Keadil]

just horrible balancing with the game and really just having three different AC healers

 

my big question is where all the crybabies who were calling out Sorc/Sage nerfs pls.

they must have either left the game crying or finally got good enough to take one down and then chalk it up to 1.2 nerfs.

 

overall healers are just gimped with the revamp to dps with exception to op healers

 

They still can't take out a sorc or sage healer, because they all rerolled.

[Wintervoid]

I am kind of trying to understand the design intent with healers here and having a hard time wrapping my head around it. No, I'm not saying Nerf Operative Healers, just mainly the comparison between Sorcs and Merc healers seem skewed very greatly.

 

I don't play any of the above actively in PvP at 50 (Crafting Mules) so I am basing it on the healers I kill, and the ones we bring with our pre-made that keep me up.

 

Why take a Sorc or Merc over an Operative Healer?

 

Operatives have strong instant heals, mobility, and because of that need less baby sitting as they can kite and keep attackers off them for long periods of time while still healing up their team. They are also the hardest to kill for me (And this is coming from probably the highest burst class out there).

 

Sorcs and Mercs, while don't get me wrong, can heal very well, I just feel like their survivability is so much lower and they have a harder time healing around them when being focused. Which, in an active group environment is quite a hindrance. As an attacker it's relatively easy to kill either of those two and I do not have to rely on lucky crits to achieve it.

 

I just feel there is a strong disparity between OPs and the other two. I won't say if it's the fact OPs are too strong and need a "nerf", or the fact Sorcs/Mercs are too weak and need a buff.

 

What am I missing here between these Healers as to why I am gaining an opinion like this?

 

As a Sawbones healer, I was considered Under Powered pre 1.2, but I thought I was doing just fine in WZs.

 

Post 1.2 I am considered Over Powered but feel like I am about the same as Pre 1.2.

 

IMO, 3 things changed to give this impression:

 

1. Sages and Commandos were nerfed down to Sawbones level. That is not to say that they should not tweak Commando or Sage healing a bit (Particularly Commandos), but I think the level that a Sawbones is at is the correct target level.

 

2. Expertise was adjusted. Even though this is a bit painful for all healing classes, it was needed to that you did not have 0-0 Voidstar matches where no one dies at upper expertise levels.

 

3. There are more Marauder's now. As a Sawbones I can survive w/o hard casts. Sages and Commandos are more reliant on Hard casts and a Marauder's 6 second interrupt will severely impact them. As a Sawbones, a Concealment Operative gives me the most problems, but they are in short supply right now.

 

As a Sawbones, I still envy the other classes at times. I have survivalbility and mobility, but they have some great utility. I have learned how to be effective in Huttball, but I would love the knockbacks, pulls and force speed of a a Sage. I would love to have the knockbacks and interrupt immunity shield of a Commando.

[hulkweazel]

I am kind of trying to understand the design intent with healers here and having a hard time wrapping my head around it. No, I'm not saying Nerf Operative Healers, just mainly the comparison between Sorcs and Merc healers seem skewed very greatly.

 

I don't play any of the above actively in PvP at 50 (Crafting Mules) so I am basing it on the healers I kill, and the ones we bring with our pre-made that keep me up.

 

Why take a Sorc or Merc over an Operative Healer?

 

Operatives have strong instant heals, mobility, and because of that need less baby sitting as they can kite and keep attackers off them for long periods of time while still healing up their team. They are also the hardest to kill for me (And this is coming from probably the highest burst class out there).

 

Sorcs and Mercs, while don't get me wrong, can heal very well, I just feel like their survivability is so much lower and they have a harder time healing around them when being focused. Which, in an active group environment is quite a hindrance. As an attacker it's relatively easy to kill either of those two and I do not have to rely on lucky crits to achieve it.

 

I just feel there is a strong disparity between OPs and the other two. I won't say if it's the fact OPs are too strong and need a "nerf", or the fact Sorcs/Mercs are too weak and need a buff.

 

What am I missing here between these Healers as to why I am gaining an opinion like this?

An Operative's main instant heal, Surgical Probe, heals for about 1k-1.5k. This is not very strong at all and it won't keep anyone up by itself. An Op's two other instant heals are HOTS that heal for about 1.8k over 18 seconds (Stackable 2x times but uses two GCDs) and an AoE heal that heals for about 1.8k over 6 seconds. Good for keeping people topped off but it won't help against any focus fire.

 

If an Operative is keeping themselves up by spamming SP, it means two things: One, that the Operative isn't healing anyone else since the Operative is using SP every GCD, and two that the Operative is below 30% health meaning it's relatively easy to burst them down for the remaining 5-6k hp. It's actually relatively easy to kill an Operative healer, just wait until they are about 30% hp before using your cooldowns, or alternatively, wait until then to stun them and prevent them from healing.

 

An Operative's mobility vs. a Sorc is often overstated. As I mentioned above, an Op has three relatively weak instant heals that really would not keep anyone up if they are focused. A Sorc, in contrast, while they do have to stand still more often, have instant-cast Bubbles and Force Speed.

 

Finally, one of the biggest disadvantages of an Op is (Still) the lack of utility. Ops have no knockback ability or friendly pull, for example. AoE mezz isn't as useful as a lot of people think because of what it does to resolve bars.

[Pexalottle]

1) Bubbles save lives. Scoundrels don't have anything that can heal for enough instantly to save somebody who is dying and buy time for the big heal. Hoping EMP crits in a chain is not a reliable solution.

 

2) Salvation is the most efficient heal in the game. Seriously, this ability is awesome - you can drop it near a busy turret in Civil War and easily be healing 5 or 6 people at the same time for far from insignificant amounts.

 

3) Force Sprint on a 30s CD means that it is dubious that Scoundrels can escape better, or redeploy between locations better. Yes, a Scoundrel is better at spamming self-heals while kiting but we rarely actually survive that way unless another healer throws some love our way.

 

Don't misunderstand me, I love my Sawbones but the idea that a Sawbones is so much better than a Sage is a joke. They have different styles, ideally you want one of each as they compliment each other well.

 

I have a Scoundrel and a Sage healer and they both play fairly well but I'd recommend Scoundrel heals for PVE and Sage for PVP, the reason behind this is that the Sage has 2 really useful heals which are Deliverance and Healing Trance, if I'm using one and it gets interrupted in PVP I just use the other one, if I'm playing as my scoundrel and my Underworld Medicine gets interrupted I have to either get the slow release medpacs rolling in or use dodge or defense screen to help myself while I wait for the added cooldown. Sages also have force armour, an incredibly useful ability.

 

In PVE though I find scoundrels a better healer healer because of their mobility with their periodic healing, I've also hit over 6k crit heals with just a 1.7 second activation, followed by an instant 3k crit heal.

[Keadil]

I have a Scoundrel and a Sage healer and they both play fairly well but I'd recommend Scoundrel heals for PVE and Sage for PVP, the reason behind this is that the Sage has 2 really useful heals which are Deliverance and Healing Trance, if I'm using one and it gets interrupted in PVP I just use the other one, if I'm playing as my scoundrel and my Underworld Medicine gets interrupted I have to either get the slow release medpacs rolling in or use dodge or defense screen to help myself while I wait for the added cooldown. Sages also have force armour, an incredibly useful ability.

 

In PVE though I find scoundrels a better healer healer because of their mobility with their periodic healing, I've also hit over 6k crit heals with just a 1.7 second activation, followed by an instant 3k crit heal.

 

I had a sage healer, but since it takes so much time to cast deliverance now, it's impossible to use. Both of those are channeled and any moron could easily make a sorc or sage healer useless. There is NO reason whatsoever to healspec now as these classes, period.

[Aaoogaa]

I have a Scoundrel and a Sage healer and they both play fairly well but I'd recommend Scoundrel heals for PVE and Sage for PVP, the reason behind this is that the Sage has 2 really useful heals which are Deliverance and Healing Trance, if I'm using one and it gets interrupted in PVP I just use the other one, if I'm playing as my scoundrel and my Underworld Medicine gets interrupted I have to either get the slow release medpacs rolling in or use dodge or defense screen to help myself while I wait for the added cooldown. Sages also have force armour, an incredibly useful ability.

 

In PVE though I find scoundrels a better healer healer because of their mobility with their periodic healing, I've also hit over 6k crit heals with just a 1.7 second activation, followed by an instant 3k crit heal.

 

Scoundrel/Ops are easily the hardest healer to kill atm. Overall healing is weak and sages are at the bottom of the barrel for PVP. If you are saying the sage is performing better than your scoundrel then you're playing your scoundrel wrong. PVE sage is still on top since it is easy to play when you don't have a marauder in your face.

[Pexalottle]

Scoundrel/Ops are easily the hardest healer to kill atm. Overall healing is weak and sages are at the bottom of the barrel for PVP. If you are saying the sage is performing better than your scoundrel then you're playing your scoundrel wrong. PVE sage is still on top since it is easy to play when you don't have a marauder in your face.

 

Only main problem is that I always get my UM interrupted and dodge and defense screen do very little to nothing to help me in 1v1.

 

I had a sage healer, but since it takes so much time to cast deliverance now, it's impossible to use. Both of those are channeled and any moron could easily make a sorc or sage healer useless. There is NO reason whatsoever to healspec now as these classes, period.

 

Not sure if I agree, I still find it fun to play as a healer, mind you I don't have any high level DPS characters.

[booshido]

Only main problem is that I always get my UM interrupted and dodge and defense screen do very little to nothing to help me in 1v1.

 

 

 

Not sure if I agree, I still find it fun to play as a healer, mind you I don't have any high level DPS characters.

 

If that's your main problem, you're in for a treat.

 

What I do is use either A.) Orbital Strike or B.) Sitting on a couple TAs/UHs, bait an interrupt with KI - Kolto Infusion (Sawbones mirror ?).

 

Once you start to get real comfortable you can start to practice juking, which if don'e right is highly effective.

[CadeNetto]

GO MERCS!!! We are amazing as long as people dont los the heal, move away from us and no one one with an interupt is 50 meters or closer.

 

WTB mobility, hots, defensive cooldowns, the ability to throw more than 4 consecutive heals, or any utility. Guess i'll continue being baby sat to do my job properly.

 

ummm, i'm pretty sure you guys get one of the best defensive cooldowns in the game, you know that "haha i'm invicible now" bubble, plus you get heavy armor, what exactly are you complaining about again

 

P.S. HI OMED!!!!!!!! It's Caedo!!!!!!

[ChrisLBC]

I play sorc heals, 4/5 WH augmented atm rest is BM. Bubble+puddle = best thing ever and i always get around 500-700k heals per match (top in the WZ every time so far). But, I can easily be made useless by say a marauder due to interrupts and a good amount of sustained damage. Either way, every class has their advantage, and if you think a sorc healer isn't a good viable pvp healer option then I would have to disagree. Operatives and really good single target heals but lack in the fact that they have really bad aoe heals. TBH, you shouldnt ever be casting dark infusion or dark heal ever since they nerfed resurgence+dark infusion. On the other hand, operatives are much harder to kill due to the fact that they can run around and still heal people whereas if I try to run around as a sorc I will just die much faster than an operative because all my abilities minus 1 on a 6s cooldown requires me to stand still. Mercs I have no idea because I almost never see any mercs healing, but the ones I do are extremely good at staying alive.

 

In the end, we all have weaknesses and strengths. Honestly, i think the problem is just that sorc healers die ridiculously fast, but this is only my opinion because of the changes that have been made in 1.2. I'm at a standstill right now wondering if I'm playing my class correctly or not but it seems that if there's about 3 marauders or dps spec'd juggernauts that everything just dies ridiculously fast, nothing to do with healers overall. But really, I top the healing meters every game, sometimes i get 4x as much healing as any other healer in the game, so I don't think that sorcs have any problem right now, anybody who thinks this is just complaining because they can't stay alive when being attacked by 3+ people anymore.

[EbonFade]

Ops were actually nerfed last patch. We were just not nerfed as much as commando and sages where, hence the reason we are top of the heap.

 

Atm, i'd say the biggest problem is not operatives, its the fact that commandos were way overnerfed, and b/c of the ttk changes, their primary raison d'etre (the ability to tank better than any other healer) is essentially irrelevant (they live approximately 1 second longer than everyone else under focus fire).

 

Sages are still the best huttball healer by a country mile (so thats 1 out of 4 wzs), but again the ttk change has really hurt them as they can't stay alive long enough to truly be effective (and the only way sages are effective is with guard + offheals).

 

If mitigation in general was revamped somewhere halfway between 1.2 and pre 1.2, the other two healers would do a lot better relatively speaking.

[Zoiks]

They're both overpowered, but in different ways.

 

Operative/scoundrel healers have great emergency healing for a single target near death, as well as high single target hps, good mobility while still doing decent healing, and decent survivability and dps for a healer.

 

Sorcerors/sages have great aoe healing around a fixed location, good buffs, and extremely high utility.

 

In a voidstar I would rather have an operative, in a huttball I would rather have a sage.

 

Sadly comm/merc healers are the only ones I would say aren't overpowered. They have good healing, but lack anything exceptionally useful in addition to that. That said, they do have healing effects that make some of their heals additive, whereas an operative or sage don't really stack well with more operatives and sages. So given the choice between a second operative, a second sage, or at least one merc healer, I'll take the merc.

[Darthbluginal]

They're both overpowered, but in different ways.

 

Operative/scoundrel healers have great emergency healing for a single target near death, as well as high single target hps, good mobility while still doing decent healing, and decent survivability and dps for a healer.

 

Sorcerors/sages have great aoe healing around a fixed location, good buffs, and extremely high utility.

 

In a voidstar I would rather have an operative, in a huttball I would rather have a sage.

 

Sadly comm/merc healers are the only ones I would say aren't overpowered. They have good healing, but lack anything exceptionally useful in addition to that. That said, they do have healing effects that make some of their heals additive, whereas an operative or sage don't really stack well with more operatives and sages. So given the choice between a second operative, a second sage, or at least one merc healer, I'll take the merc.

 

lol if you think healing is overpowered...........try killing a healer in any other mmo. This is by far the weakest healers have been in my 8 years of pvp throughout several games.

 

The only thing that is OP is a specific combo of a tank healer. It makes it very difficult to kill a healer, but without it, its a joke to kill one. But I wouldnt dare say re balance that aspect, for I get flamed for mentioning it.

[carbocat]

Iam so *********** tired see ppl all the time whine about *********** opratives! ****!! Leave those opratives alone! Your not happy before they are removed from game!!!!!!!

[Spoletta]

The main reason why people think that operatives are so much more survivable than sorc is cause a marauder will give hell to a sorc while struggling to keep an operative under 70% health , and right now there really a lot of marauders around. Shadows are the real scoundrel killers, when i have one on me i usually survive 50% of the times if i don't screw up something, and you can forget about healing the team in the meantime.