How good could you wield a double bladed saber or 2 sabers in RL?

[-squiddy-]

No point I arguing about something like this in a forum it's like claiming that my lightning bolt beats your magic missile.

 

I use live bladed katanas. I've used them against straw dummies. In the old days they would test them against condemned criminals to see how well they cut. I think it would be difficult for me to prove my cutting power in this way though these days (maybe in Texas?).

 

To say that a particular technique will not work is not sensible as you could never test it in real life. To say that there is not enough power in an underhand attack when hand to hand combat doesn't require cleaving, severing strikes to kill is again probably never going to be based on real life situations and merely opinion.

 

Severing fingers or a wrist is very easy. I have broken an opponents wrist with a Shinai, so to say that there wouldn't be enough power to do it with a katana, even with a small ammount of force (no not "the force") is not correct.

 

All you have to do is disable an opponent to kill them. Remove a finger or two and they can't hold their sword.

 

You don't need to cleave your opponent in twain to win a bout. It's not all about power. The tip of a sword can kill as easily as the blade. As Musashi proved (if you believe the story) you can do it with a bokken.

 

To get caught up in a "my technique is better than yours" in a forum discussion is a little pointless.

 

Doubly so when discussing lightsabers I would think

Edited April 30, 2012 by -squiddy-

[Captain_Zone]

There are forms of dual weapon combat in real life. I did Amtgard and the SCA for around a decade and a half and my preferred style (in Amtgard, SCA it was pure Sword and Board) was dual weapons. While I primarily focused on "daggers" (that is weapons constructed to the length of just under the minimum for a short sword) in combat as a Healer I also knew how to use two full length swords.

 

First of all, you don't make large sweeping strikes usually, though with a lightsaber things would work far differently. Usually I used the off-hand weapon to parry and the main weapon to strike. There are things that (contrary to some poster's beliefs) are simply easier to do with two weapons than with one and rarely the other way around. The main issue with using two blades is that one has to develop a passable amount of ambidexterity.

 

Without that ambidexterity, without the proper practice and training, without the right control trying to use two weapons can quickly put you at a disadvantage.

 

Now as for a double bladed lightsaber... No. Those weapons are stupid and would never be used by anyone ever.

 

Ray Park would like a word.

[Maniacraid]

The double bladed lightsaber, or Saberstaff/lightstaff/doublesaber would be used in combat the same way a bo staff would be used. Also, the weilders of lightsabers and all their different variations have the force to help them use it, and guide their movements so they could avoid self-amputation. Think back to Han using Luke's lightsaber on Hoth, he didn't just grab it and cut open the tuantuan like he'd picked up a knife, or sword, it was unwieldy for him, and he had to be careful with it.

[imraziel]

Wow some people here are completely talk out of the other end.

 

1st since the lightsaber has a magnetic field surrounding the blade it would produce a gyroscope effect. Creating the "feeling" of a blade at the end.

 

The hardest part of dual weapons is getting out of the way of your other weapon. Often this requires putting a weapon in a spot where the first has to move before the other can be used for defense or attack. Alternately the other weapon could be used as a counter balance to the first attack, however this leaves more openings to be attacked.

 

In real life close combat situations, the fight only lasts long enough for an initial strike a counter or parry and then a second strike, rarely does it continue. 90% of all two weapon forms are merely intended to show off skills and how comfortable they are with that weapon.

 

In reality, a fight between a sith and Jedi would consist of hours of precognitive planning and 2 sec of an actual fight.

 

A double blade saber is nothing like a Bo or Chinese long staff. Wielding a staff requires movement from one side to the other to maximize reach and leverage. This would cause a Jedi/sith to touch the blade or hit themselves. The closest weapon would be a double naginata or a Chinese sword staff.

[Rhyltran]

The hardest part of dual weapons is getting out of the way of your other weapon. Often this requires putting a weapon in a spot where the first has to move before the other can be used for defense or attack. Alternately the other weapon could be used as a counter balance to the first attack, however this leaves more openings to be attacked.

 

In real life close combat situations, the fight only lasts long enough for an initial strike a counter or parry and then a second strike, rarely does it continue. 90% of all two weapon forms are merely intended to show off skills and how comfortable they are with that weapon.

In reality, a fight between a sith and Jedi would consist of hours of precognitive planning and 2 sec of an actual fight.

 

A double blade saber is nothing like a Bo or Chinese long staff. Wielding a staff requires movement from one side to the other to maximize reach and leverage. This would cause a Jedi/sith to touch the blade or hit themselves. The closest weapon would be a double naginata or a Chinese sword staff.

 

This is 100% correct. Of course most people aren't aware of this fact.

[damolawler]

Let's be honest. We'd all end up chopping our own arms and legs off in minutes.

[AlienEyeTX]

Using a double-bladed lightsaber would be similar using a long staff, but definitely not the same. A special kind of reach and control would be necessary. I've trained with a long staff and you end up touching different parts of it... a lot. The form would be completely different and the motions would have to be modified to the point of exaggeration.

 

It could be done, though.

 

Dual-wield would be, arguably, easier with sabers since they weigh practically nothing.

[inoutallabout]

10/10 would chop own foot off.

[TalonVII]

Fighting with a double bladed saber is almost no harder than fighting with a Bo Staff is now. Most of the same moves apply except some of the blocks since a lightsaber would chop a dual bladed saber in half.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Edit: Ya know what? Nah, not gonna get involved. Edited May 22, 2016 by Wolfninjajedi

[SerraShar]

I just put this here..

 

[FlavivsAetivs]

Did anyone historically "dual wield" in real life? (Anyone being a collective here, i.e. Musketeers, Vikings, Samurai, etc.)

 

I don't remember what it's called, but there is a blade used in the left hand in many renaissance and reformation era swordfighting styles. I thought it was called a "defender" but a quick google search yielded nothing of value. It was used for the purpose of parrying an opponent's attack. Someone knowledgeable in fencing may know more.

 

EDIT: Ah, see the video linked in the post above.^^ Exactly what I was talking about.

 

As for double-bladed weapons, that has been debated to death and the consensus amongst people who actually know what they're doing with a sword, is that it's too impractical to be of any real value. You're more likely to hurt yourself and in order to avoid doing so you'd have to fight in a manner which leaves a lot of gaps in your ability to defend against an opponent with a blade, and have to overextend your reach which makes you vulnerable too.

 

That being said, nobody wins in a knife fight.

 

~ Eudoxia

Edited May 22, 2016 by FlavivsAetivs

[MadDutchman]

Well, at least this necro is an interesting topic...

 

The thing with double bladed sabers and how they differ from RL staffs is that with a staff, you can grip any part of it, whereas with a lightsaber you are limited to gripping the central hilt, severely limiting the versatility of the weapon.

[TalonVII]

Well, at least this necro is an interesting topic...

 

The thing with double bladed sabers and how they differ from RL staffs is that with a staff, you can grip any part of it, whereas with a lightsaber you are limited to gripping the central hilt, severely limiting the versatility of the weapon.

 

From the looks of Darth Maul, he seemed to do just fine with it against 2 extremely good duelists.

[Rhyltran]

From the looks of Darth Maul, he seemed to do just fine with it against 2 extremely good duelists.

 

It's the way the choreography is done. They made sure that when Obi Wan was striking how Qui Gon would be striking low at a different angle. This allows the actor to maneuver the weapon to intercept both attacks. Without choreography, realistically, you wouldn't be able to wield a saberstaff effectively.

[TalonVII]

It's the way the choreography is done. They made sure that when Obi Wan was striking how Qui Gon would be striking low at a different angle. This allows the actor to maneuver the weapon to intercept both attacks. Without choreography, realistically, you wouldn't be able to wield a saberstaff effectively.

 

I disagree. Granted it requires more footwork and control but it can be a practical weapon. Plus Maul was able to shut off one end and wield it single Saber plus the surprise of if someone flips behind you and you quickly light off one end is a good surprise weapon.

 

Dual bladed can be effective. No different than watching someone weird a double ended sword. And yes there are some in history.

[Rhyltran]

I disagree. Granted it requires more footwork and control but it can be a practical weapon. Plus Maul was able to shut off one end and wield it single Saber plus the surprise of if someone flips behind you and you quickly light off one end is a good surprise weapon.

 

Dual bladed can be effective. No different than watching someone weird a double ended sword. And yes there are some in history.

 

I'm talking about from a real life perspective and no one is flipping behind anyone in a real sword fight.

[TalonVII]

I'm talking about from a real life perspective and no one is flipping behind anyone in a real sword fight.

 

And from a real life perspective people did use double swords joined in the middle. Or double ended spears. They are a specialist weapon. And it is entirely possible to use them. They just require more skill and awareness than usual.

[Rhyltran]

And from a real life perspective people did use double swords joined in the middle. Or double ended spears. They are a specialist weapon. And it is entirely possible to use them. They just require more skill and awareness than usual.

 

We're not talking about double ended spears or swords joined in the middle but a double ended lightsaber. A weapon where the simplest touch can sever limbs or the very least cause massive burn damage. You can hand half a sword, you can touch a "blade" without being cut, even an edged blade, despite what people think. You can't touch a lightsaber "beam".

Edited May 23, 2016 by Rhyltran

[Jedi_riches]

My issue with dual wielding is that you need quite good upper body strength I think if you are planning on blocking a incoming attack, imagine a guy single wielding attacking you and he uses 2 hands which is essentially putting his whole weight behind the attack then you have to combat it using the strength of 1 arm only (it is not always a option to move out of the way)

[AlienEyeTX]

Well, at least this necro is an interesting topic...

 

The thing with double bladed sabers and how they differ from RL staffs is that with a staff, you can grip any part of it, whereas with a lightsaber you are limited to gripping the central hilt, severely limiting the versatility of the weapon.

 

Not to mention all the times a staff will touch your arm or back. That and the limited grip options would make it much more trouble and much more dangerous that it would be worth. Could it be done? Yes. But, anyone moderately skilled with a regular saber would have a significant advantage.

 

***EDIT***

 

Dual-wielding is not extremely rare and definitely could be done with sabers. Yes, it would take a superior swordsman to be good at it, but that's what makes the accomplishment so impressive. It's hard enough to wield a single blade with any degree of skill or competence.

Edited May 24, 2016 by AlienEyeTX

[Storm-Cutter]

Anyone remember the Seven Samurai.....It's been a long time but IIRC one scene goes something like this...

 

Kyuzo is practicing his forms with the blade. A challenger comes up and a fight begins with practice ( wooden) swords.

Kyuzo wins. Very easily.

 

Kyuzo comments that had it been a real sword, the challenger would be dead.

Moments later the challenger tests this with a real sword.

 

Result: Kyuzo 2, Challenger nil.

 

I was once passable with Shortsword and dagger, but wouldn't risk my life or limbs on it.

 

For the record, I still have a dent in my head where a friend hit me with a practice Longsword. (Real steel, real size and weight, rounded edges.) - Needless to say I wasn't rash enough to get him to try again with something a little sharper.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Storm-Cutter

[TalonVII]

We're not talking about double ended spears or swords joined in the middle but a double ended lightsaber. A weapon where the simplest touch can sever limbs or the very least cause massive burn damage. You can hand half a sword, you can touch a "blade" without being cut, even an edged blade, despite what people think. You can't touch a lightsaber "beam".

 

Same could be said with a single light saber. One saber lock and the blade gets shoved against you with a heavy hit, own weapon burns you. Again proper focus will keep your blade away from you.

[Rhyltran]

Same could be said with a single light saber. One saber lock and the blade gets shoved against you with a heavy hit, own weapon burns you. Again proper focus will keep your blade away from you.

 

I'm curious Talon. Have you done any formal training in actual styles with an actual weapon? I'm not insulting you regardless if you say yes or no I'm not going to use it against you. I am merely asking because depending on your answer maybe you are familiar with a style I'm not aware of but based off everything I've learned of swordsmanship there is no possible way a saberstaff would be practical. The amount of techniques you would lose as opposed to using an actual staff would be devastating. You literally cannot use it the same way or apply the same techniques.

 

Yes, even a lightsaber, would cause you to lose many techniques but not quite as many.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Rhyltran

[TalonVII]

I'm curious Talon. Have you done any formal training in actual styles with an actual weapon? I'm not insulting you regardless if you say yes or no I'm not going to use it against you. I am merely asking because depending on your answer maybe you are familiar with a style I'm not aware of but based off everything I've learned of swordsmanship there is no possible way a saberstaff would be practical. The amount of techniques you would lose as opposed to using an actual staff would be devastating. You literally cannot use it the same way or apply the same techniques.

 

Yes, even a lightsaber, would cause you to lose many techniques but not quite as many.

 

Tae-kwan-do. Granted i was just learning Bostaff when I gave it up. Also have hand to hand weapons training with Bataons, knives and Bayonettes during my time as a US Marine.

 

Granted i'd love to learn kendo and such.