My Defense spec Guard is absolute trash

[TomC]

Did you go 24 deep in Vigilance and not get Overhead Slash and Force Rush? If so go respec to 16/25 and include those talents or respec 31 deep in defense.

[VoidJustice]

Did you go 24 deep in Vigilance and not get Overhead Slash and Force Rush? If so go respec to 16/25 and include those talents or respec 31 deep in defense.

 

or just go full Vigilance. Defence is borked, a few folks make it work ok, but I wouldn't follow their path if your already so frustrated.

 

Go full Vigilance, get dps gear, profit.

 

I have very little issue with any content in Battle Master gear in Shien with Doc out.

When I swtich to Soresu, I bearly get scratched by Mobs.

 

So I have like 15500 hp and no armor to speak of... and I rip stuff up pve wise.

 

Hell I solo champions while doc is off selling trash, and I've taken all the pve only abilities off my toolbars.

(I've solo'd 2 champions without doc before, using a medpack, LOS, snare and AWE)

 

With Doc up I've tanked world bosses significantly into 2/3 hp till they pull their 1 shot your not an OPS group move.

 

/shrug

 

p.s. If you can't beat em... join em...

Edited April 30, 2012 by VoidJustice

[Optionalboss]

Esquire:

 

Go play another class then. This obviously isn't right for you.

 

You complain about a class and say it is broken when thousands of us stand as proof that it isn't.

You complain about a talent spec being the only viable way when I myself have spent more creds modding back and forth as I leveled just to see how the differences were between the choices.

 

If you are going to do something in a talent spec... learn it, take advice, remod, and move on. If you don't get it, stop complaining and try something else. I leveled three different classes and didn't really jive with any of them till I hit this one... then the time and the experience just fly by.

 

With your healer companion, there is literally no spec that cannot get through what it is you are doing. And as people have pointed out, you need to get the gear that fits for your class. If you intend to do anything tank related, you HAVE to get the stats up.

 

You say this is wow with lightsabers. Were you a melee hunter? Cause that is what it sounds like. We've taught you to 'get to distance and use your ranged weapon' and you insist on staying up close. Eventually you have to get out of the fire, or you will die... and maybe everyone here is all done healing you.

 

Rez?

[Esquire]

I don't know how you expect progression to be anything other than linear. I mean isn't the point that you progress from one part of the content to the next?

 

That said, the daily quests are not worthless once you have your 23 mods. There is a lot of money to be had from doing them and the new relics you can get from them are very nice. You also get black hole commendations once a week from doing the weekly on Corellia. I still do the dailies on Ilum and Corellia and I have level 26 mods in all of my gear.

 

I can verify 100% that your theory about Ilum dailies being designed to do once you have your daily mods is false. See, we all did those dailies before there were any daily quests at all on Corellia. Ilum is where I got those mods and I'm here to tell you that those quests were not difficult in the gear I had from leveling. Your problem was most certainly not about hitting the wrong content at the wrong time with the wrong gear.

 

I'm not sure if your build is part of the problem as you still haven't posted it. I suspect the problem is your rotation and your unwillingness to use your interrupts as well as abilities like pommel strike, hilt strike, force stasis, force push, and opportune strike. That is pure conjecture on my part as well though since you never told us what your rotation is. If I am correct then your real problem is that this class just isn't for you. That variance in abilities and necessity of interrupts is very much part of playing a Guardian. If you don't like that then you don't like the class.

 

You also don't understand fully the utility of the crafting system, but that's a whole other discussion that I don't have the energy to get involved in.

 

I have tried to help you, but I don't think you came here sincerely looking for help. I think you really just wanted to vent your frustrations. It's a shame you are giving up because I found the class to be an absolute blast to play. I can assure you that there is nothing wrong with the design of the class or the content. The problem is on your end. Perhaps there are things you could have learned that would have changed things....perhaps not. It may just be a problem of your personal preference.

 

OK, WARNING................ Wall of text crits you for 14283239184 points, You are no more..........,

 

You know, I wasn't going to post anylonger in this thread as I didn't care all that much for people harping on canceling in SWG nor do I like it here. If the game isn't for you, then DO make the post with your greviances, for the developers sake only/tell them why so they have some ideas of what maybe to fix, and move quietly on. There is no sence in trying to take people with you. If they enjoy it, them let them. But, you asked some questions, made some points that are good ones that should require clarification.

 

As for progression, appearently you haven't played any games set up like SWG. The system was set up so long term goals required you to go back, and keep going back, to content again, and again, and again. It was either the rare drop that if you already had it you could sell it on your vendors for some1 who didn't, the ability to further your builds to actualy solo the content (or do it without the entire group used), or even just to get junk loot for crafting even off of level 10 NPCs. The system was at least enjoyable and you basicly didn't lose content, even at 90, leveling content, older boss content, instances, or just grinding NPCs. There was a reason to re-use the content. That helped player retention and gave players something to do. To be honest, that's probably one of the largest problems I had with WoW and STO was when you finished an area there was simply no reason to ever go back, the content became stale and unusable and TOR has seems to copy WoW et al in it's entirety there. One of the large differences there were, players were not constantly on the forums looking for that next patch to surfice just for something to do. But, that's a dev decision and probably nothing any1 can do about it now.

 

I tried the Bel dailys last night as well. With my build/rotation, I was able to progress quite easily. The main differences between Illum dailys and the others are the shear amount of NPCs and that certainly makes a difference to my build and gear. I can do the others quite easily but Illum, I simply can't touch as I tried them even again. I have no idea if difficulty was increased from when you 1st started these or not and with your current gear it probably doesn't matter. But, sometimes devs add difficulty, without patch notes, to existing content expecialy when they add content to fill whatever "hole" they think they've filled with new content. IE, the 1.2 dailys (any1 from SWG remember CU and C6CD?)

 

Grinding credits, the dailys are no where as good as 4 droid NPCs I've found in the starter area of Coro. I can grind 100K in a hour or so simply by grinding these droids. These guys drop about 1K per/kill. Grinds never bothered me in the least. I don't need a quest giver to tell me to go kill things and in fact I ground jedi when jedi was what some would call an unbelievable grind in SWG. So, if there is another way that satifys the goal faster, the dailys would fast become not worth it, to me at least, once I got the 23 mods.

 

My build is very close to what others have posted here for the hybrid builds of def/Vig. Maybe a point or 2 is different but probably not enough to make that much of a large difference. However, you make a point about some of the "abilitys" and interupts. I had pommel strike in rotation but the abilty just didn't light up after somewhere in the early 40s. So, it got replaced by 1 that did (believe I made that point in the OP about alot of these band-aid added specials in the Op even). There are SIMPLY WAY TOO MANY abilitys in this game. And probably the big one for you, I don't like the entire interupt concept. For 1, I end up looking at nothing other than my bars for what lights up and when due to the long cooldowns and the global cooldowns. For some reason, I just do not have the time to look for these "casts" from NPCs and players of what and when to interupt. That may be my age (you get a little slower as you get older) and/or it my be my utter disgust at the concept as a whole. If I played a "glass cannon" (such as an officer in SWG) and had all my large DPS abiltys interupted by a guardian or 2, I think I'd be livid and it would become ragequit time. Baseing surviveablity around taking away something from another is just VERY poor development in my book. I don't like it, can't keep up with it, so my gameplay went around it. I VERY much dislike 1-hit kills as well. I call that "programed to die" development and it is nothing more than lazy programming, a credit sink for repairs, and gives the player no choice and "no way to win". To coin a phrase, "I don't believe in the no win senerio" in real life or a game that I'm going to pay for the privilage.

 

I think I understand the crafting system better than you realise. I played that part of SWG extensively and had a city mall with 27 vendors in it that people used from all across the server. I had every crafter in the game. It was well stocked, well kept up with, and was very engrossing longterm gameplay. My main crafter had max credits, 3 billion with a B. However, here, some of the same developers have chosen the "drop" economy over the player made economy. (more WoW copying I suppose) With all of the drops you get leveling, the countless modes of currency to get this and that (even at endgame), crafting is made entirely worthless with the possible exception of Bio. There is just not the need. In fact, I have 2 pcs of "augmented" gear up on the GTN for weeks, neither have sold for even 150K but the 2-day credit sinks still apply Why? Because they can get the same thing from tokens. Crafters are simply not necessary in TOR and that is just sad.

 

I made the OP to clue developers in on what they had programed and my personal reactions to it. Most of my posts are made for developers. Maybe a bit of venting and frustration thrown in for good measure. Back in SWG (again) the game Producer and dev team would even test new ideas with and against my jedi. However, I did take into consideration all that you and the others were saying as I certainly do not have everything figured out in TOR as I pretty much did in SWG after almost 8 years. And after learning what I have here, I would expect the poster who said "go Vig and DPS" is probably more on the mark than most.

 

Facts of the matter remain. TOR is probably not the game for me. That does not make it a "bad game" and it does not mean it's not the game for others. I would imagine if you've played WoW for as long as I played SWG you have no problems with anything in TOR. However, I'll keep track of future patch notes as I enjoy the IP to no end and if it ever becomes something that I think I could actualy play, I'll be more than happy to re-sub. For some simple comparison, I couldn't make it thru the 30 days that came with the box on WoW vanilla. At least here, I made it to max level.

Edited April 30, 2012 by Esquire

[VoidJustice]

SWG pre NCU was a hell of a game. The Jedi thing ruined it. There will never be a game that cool again. It's too complex and requires too much "work" for modern MMO folks.

 

I feel your pain, but, SWTOR is more Wow than SWG by far.

[Esquire]

SWG pre NCU was a hell of a game. The Jedi thing ruined it. There will never be a game that cool again. It's too complex and requires too much "work" for modern MMO folks.

 

I feel your pain, but, SWTOR is more Wow than SWG by far.

 

I actualy liked the jedi thing, but in retrospec it should of been left perma-death. (and I was 1 on the forums screaming about the possibility of losing my 8 month grind jedi also)

 

Koster set it up right. Perma-death kept jedi out of world PVP (we had our own version in the enclaves) and if you were stupid, you paid the price with visibilty and the BH terms or the ever constant "jedi hunting partys". My own guild leader lead a boat-load of these things and I would get onto my jedi and kill members of my own guild to stop them from griefing paddys who were grinding dath to get boxes so they could survive. Was some great fun, to be honest, and had many a laugh with a lot of really good people.

[TomC]

Your rant about interrupts is just bizarre. It isn't often that I find a perspective I can't even wrap my mind around. Interrupts in PvP are so central to controlling certain classes and especially healers I can't even imagine what you think would be a good substitute? Do you want everyone to have extremely large HP pools and very little healing? I'm not sure how else you'd ever kill anyone if you couldn't stop heals and large damage casts.

[Esquire]

Your rant about interrupts is just bizarre. It isn't often that I find a perspective I can't even wrap my mind around. Interrupts in PvP are so central to controlling certain classes and especially healers I can't even imagine what you think would be a good substitute? Do you want everyone to have extremely large HP pools and very little healing? I'm not sure how else you'd ever kill anyone if you couldn't stop heals and large damage casts.

 

Played alot of WoW, didn't you?

 

Only WoW and clones use interupts. None in SWG, none in STO, none in AoC or in fact, any other game I've EVER played for any lenght of time at all.

 

In SWG my jedi had a 10K heal on a 20 sec timer, in fact ALL professions had a class heal. Along with medics who could heal like you couldn't even believe. And, we PVPed with the best of them. We had the PVP instances of number against number, we had a large PVP flagged area for upscale battles - 50 v 50 anyone? (and the subsequent slideshow lag), we had 1v1 duels, and we had world PVP as long as some1 was flagged. Base busting was some of the most fun I've ever had in a game for PVP as players could set a factional base, the other side could attack it, and then an alarm went off for those that placed the base to defend it with the help of the NPCs that were inside of it. It took almost EVERY prof, except jedi, to blow that base. There was even a forced PVP concept with the BH terminals where a BH could pick up your mission and "force" you to go red to him which he went red after he took the 1st shot. (but 1st, you had to kill players to get on it and that player could place a credit bounty on your head from his own credits) Surprise!

 

PVP battles were not 1 hit kills. DPS actualy mattered. High DPS classes were glass cannons. No1 built rage or focus, we had an action bar that you had to manage. You could fire while moving EVERY special. Mandos had DoTs that everyone was weary of but most could heal those as well (all except the mandos that were throwing them). Tanks were extreemly hard to take down but threw relativly little comparable DPS. Group make-up mattered. No1 could take anything away from another. It was what you used and when that made you a "decent PVPer". There was NO global cooldown. After some failed attemps and OP professions, there were NO stuns. Ev1 could fire while rooted and snared. You could save up all your specials for 1 large bit of spike DPS if you so chose. Auto-targeting actualy worked. The battles actualy lasted for a bit which made PVP even the more fun in my book. Zerging wasn't so much a decider in if the battle was won or not.

 

Sound like a decent PVP system?

Edited April 30, 2012 by Esquire

[VoidJustice]

There was even a forced PVP concept with the BH terminals where a BH could pick up your mission and "force" you to go red to him which he went red after he took the 1st shot. (but 1st, you had to kill players to get on it and that player could place a credit bounty on your head from his own credits) Surprise!

 

Wookie BH <-Rarool killed a few very low level Jedi, damn scurge o the best game ever made.

If SWG didn't have Jedi... that game would have been the MMO model all these kids know today.

At least the "game play" is alot better in the Wow clones. More gamey nowadays... so at least we

have that going for us. However, the fun of spending a whole day shopping for gear and chitchatting

with your friendly local neighborhood crafters... is over

 

So first character in SWTOR... Jedi Guardian lol....

 

could you imagine if a SWG Jedi showed up in a SWTOR Wz... lol omg the crying...

30 of us couldn't kill him... lol...

Edited April 30, 2012 by VoidJustice

[Invictos]

Ok, so at 1st knee-jerk reaction, I hurried off to go get some shield enhansements, but then it hit. You mean to tell me that 1 stat will make all that much difference? "Night and day"? After all, my shield has to be proc-ing 1/2 the amount of the others even with all that great gear grind stuff.

 

The difference between ~20/20 shield chance/absorb and ~40/40 shield chance/absorb is 300%. 0.2 * 0.2 = 0.4, or 4% over-time mitigation. 0.4 * 0.4 = 0.16, or 16% over-time mitigation. That's on top of your 40+% mitigation from armor, and your likely 20ish% defense chance.

 

In other words, we're talking about quadrupling your over-time damage mitigation from your shield. That's a pretty big difference. Will it make or break you? Probably not; from the sound of it, you have problems that go deeper than equipment choices. Then again, the shield thing might be just big enough to push you over the hump.

 

FWIW, I agree with you that there's a rather abrupt upward shift in PvE difficulty when you get to Ilum; regular and silver mobs are harder there, and they seem to come in bigger spawns (on average, anyway). The difficulty increase shouldn't be that big a deal, though; it's supposed to ease you into the end game (and to have a high enough ceiling that you won't vastly overgear it in a week).

[Esquire]

Wookie BH <-Rarool killed a few very low level Jedi, damn scurge o the best game ever made.

If SWG didn't have Jedi... that game would have been the MMO model all these kids know today.

At least the "game play" is alot better in the Wow clones. More gamey nowadays... so at least we

have that going for us. However, the fun of spending a whole day shopping for gear and chitchatting

with your friendly local neighborhood crafters... is over

 

So first character in SWTOR... Jedi Guardian lol....

 

could you imagine if a SWG Jedi showed up in a SWTOR Wz... lol omg the crying...

30 of us couldn't kill him... lol...

 

Wookie BH........, /shudder!

 

I was in the DWB farming liquids for my crafter when 3 of them came for me. And it was pretty easy for them to get down to me as I had cleared the way. They made it with full health, I was in the middle of aggro with several of the over powered NPCs down there. They chose the perfect time. Great BHs, every 1 of them.

 

I made it out, but just with a tad bit of skin left on my teeth. Heart was pumping, adrenaline flowing, couldn't breath lol. Was sooo glad to see my heal come up again. NEVER have I experienced anything like that in another game. They all seem to make dieing part of the game and it seems to mean almost nothing anylonger. IE; even PVE difficulty in TOR with class quests, some FPs, Illum dailys (had to get that in there, lol)

 

I have no idea what these guys would do if a old SWG jedi showed up in PVP in TOR. But, I would certainly like to try it out. lol Think I still have my character files around somewhere. Hey, Adept-strain, can you make that happen? lol

 

How in the world do you cope with all these specials and interupts? I, for the life of me, can not keep up.

Edited April 30, 2012 by Esquire

[je-s-ter]

Every post of the OP seems to me as "SWG did it thousand times better" and he then follows it with the list of his accomplishments in that game.

You say your thread is helpful to developers, I say it isn't. There is something very wrong and it's not the game's fault. I did the Illum quests in a full tank spec with DPS gear without using any of the PvE only abilities (Oppurtune strike, pommel strike). I was using dps companion and had no problem what so ever. My gear was several levels below me as I PvPed a lot and thus didnt have enough commendations from planets to keep my mods up to date. I did it post 1.2 (last week actually), so I dont think I've missed any ninja buff to the mobs there.

 

Guardians are known for their excessive amount of abilities that needs to be used on regular basis. If you wanted an easy class, you chose poorly.

As for interrupts, I don't understand how that is a poor development. Poor development is make every class hit like truck and put a countermeasure in the form of increased HP pool, where the outcome of a fight is a DPS race. One of the most succesful MMORPG, as far as PvP goes (Guild Wars) has heavy emphasis on interrupts. I would hardly call GWs PvP a poor development.

[ChaeTakbae]

Reading the OP I can only say L2P...

[TomC]

Your description of SWG PvP sounds horrible. What is the point if everyone is the same and resource management isn't important?

[RDeanOU]

There is a difference between calling something poor design and simply saying you prefer it another way.

 

I prefer TOR, and frankly WOW for that matter, over SWG's way of doing things. I would argue the defunct nature of SWG speaks to the fact that most people agree with me. I don't want to have to run the same freaking content a thousand times for a rare drop. That sounds like work. I play games for fun.

[Esquire]

Frankly, I'm crushed.

 

All those years in school getting that BA and JD, a lovely wife and raising 5 kids - putting them thru school and getting them well into their lives, 28 years in private practice with my own firm, this 20 acre estate I live on, etc etc all for naught due to the fact I've been outclassed in SW:TOR by........., video gamers.

 

Thank you all for showing me my life has no meaning and the error of my ways. Excuse me, I'm just a little too distraught to speak right now..........

 

Ok, now that we've dispensed with the pleasentrys. The game is fantastic, I'm just no good at it, and you all are great. /deepbow

 

Never ceases to amaze me the self importance one can derive from a video game.

[RDeanOU]

Frankly, I'm crushed.

 

All those years in school getting that BA and JD, a lovely wife and raising 5 kids - putting them thru school and getting them well into their lives, 28 years in private practice with my own firm, this 20 acre estate I live on, etc etc all for naught due to the fact I've been outclassed in SW:TOR by........., video gamers.

 

Thank you all for showing me my life has no meaning and the error of my ways. Excuse me, I'm just a little too distraught to speak right now..........

 

Ok, now that we've dispensed with the pleasentrys. The game is fantastic, I'm just no good at it, and you all are great. /deepbow

 

Never ceases to amaze me the self importance one can derive from a video game.

 

It never ceases to amaze me that someone can be this dramatic and act like anyone else is making as big a deal out of this.

 

I didn't see anyone attacking you personally or acting as though your life had no meaning. I saw a lot of people in this thread trying to help you and ultimately judging that this game simply isn't for you. A few others made that judgment without trying to help as well. Frankly, you made that judgment too.

 

I don't know why you feel the need to brag about your accomplishments to others on this forum. I can't speak to your actual intent, but I can tell you what this post communicates to others. It makes it appear as though you actually do feel a little inadequate about your skill and you are talking about all of these other accomplishments as a way to puff yourself up and feel better. It seems like you are saying, "Well yeah, you guys may be better than me at a video game, but that is totally meaningless and I am more accomplished at the things that matter."

 

No one on this forum cares about your kids, your college degrees, your private practice, your 20 acre estate, etc. etc.

 

This forum is about discussion of The Guardian class in Star Wars: The Old Republic. If you want to stroke your bruised ego this isn't the place for it.

 

If you want help, advice, or suggestions about how to play your Guardian better then we will be glad to discuss that and offer what help we can.

[defendurname]

Frankly, I'm crushed.

 

All those years in school getting that BA and JD, a lovely wife and raising 5 kids - putting them thru school and getting them well into their lives, 28 years in private practice with my own firm, this 20 acre estate I live on, etc etc all for naught due to the fact I've been outclassed in SW:TOR by........., video gamers.

 

Thank you all for showing me my life has no meaning and the error of my ways. Excuse me, I'm just a little too distraught to speak right now..........

 

Ok, now that we've dispensed with the pleasentrys. The game is fantastic, I'm just no good at it, and you all are great. /deepbow

 

Never ceases to amaze me the self importance one can derive from a video game.

 

 

At first you asked for help; we replied. Different people, with different thoughts, tried to help, and yet your posts tended to repeat themselves, namely, by repeating what you dislike about this game, how it compares to SWG and what you liked about SWG. This is not SWG, and I am sorry if you expected this game to be SWG 2.0: it is not. You say this game is a WoW-clone; compared to SWG, what little I know about it, I would tend to agree.

 

Re-reading your comments, I have to say that you are indeed doing something wrong and the problem does not lie with your gearing. In order to progress in the endgame of SWTOR, PVE and PVP, you have no option but to change the way you play. The game and the playstyle may very well not appeal to you, in which case by all means cancel your subscription: it is hardly worthwhile to play a game that isn't fun for you.

 

 

If the life achievements you have listed are indeed accurate, I, for one, congratulate you on your success. However this is not information we asked for, nor is it pertinent to the discussion at hand. We, the people posting in this thread, for the most part, cared only about you as a gamer and the problems you were having with this game: your real life situation was, and still is, irrelavant to us. We never said your life had no meaning, and your dramatics are a great disservice to yourself. As someone who has experienced as much as you claim to have in life, I, personally, would have expected better self-restraint. After all, I'm sure 5 kids can be a million times more annoying than a bunch of posters on this forum.

 

 

And, for the record, its not a bad thing to take a little pride in being good at something, whether it is at football, cooking spaghetti, or even in a game.

[TomC]

Still hasn't posted his spec or rotation. I can only assume he doesn't actually want help.