Not another WoW PLEASE!!!

[Agemnon]

Then play that game if it's so fun, and leave SWTOR alone?

 

Game cards aren't out for it yet though I thought about preordering but went with another.

 

While I'd love to see a panda like race in SWTOR it just wouldn't work for the same reason that Wookies wouldn't. A Gungan romancing a twilek or human would be... quite awkward -_- which is why there are only human races. I'd like to see wookies and such eventually but only if they find a way to make it work.

[Glittering]

I played WoW and there were many good things about that game. Like it or not they set a standard for certain things (for example being able to modify the user interface).

 

Just because they incorporate some things former WoW gamers come to expect, does not mean this game is a clone.

 

This game has more story. This game has actual voice acting. You get to see your own character in those cut scenes. They have lovingly recreated the world that Lucas dreamed up.

 

So we have mini-pets and maybe (hopefully) animal mounts. I don't see any issue with that. I want my own thranta.

[Orila]

But this game is a wow clone already.

[Callianna]

@ op and the fanboys.

 

 

without wow swtor would not exist

 

without wow players, bw would run out of money in an hour and the game would go bust.

 

without wow bioware would have no reason to create swtor because, lets face it the whole idea behind this games creation was to take down blizzard and steal its cash cow.

 

 

because money, not sentiment, makes the world go round.

 

Don't forget without EQ WOW would not have existed so take that argument and go home, there is and has always been a previous game that was evolved to a "newer" version. And no one needs to take down WOW they are doing a fine job all by themselves. BTW former WOW player who quit because of all the garbage they put in the game.

[Skidrowbro]

Don't forget without EQ WOW would not have existed so take that argument and go home, there is and has always been a previous game that was evolved to a "newer" version. And no one needs to take down WOW they are doing a fine job all by themselves. BTW former WOW player who quit because of all the garbage they put in the game.

 

Without Gamesworkshop Blizzard would not have existed.

[Scerion]

Without Gamesworkshop Blizzard would not have existed.

 

I always find these "Without X, Y wouldn't exist" statements ridiculous. Without your dad, you wouldn't exist. Does that mean that anything you achieve during your life is all down to your father? Of course not.

 

Saying Everquest is the reason WoW exists is just as stupid. They share no code at all, no backend infrastucture, or artwork. They're both MMO's, that's about it. People get nostalgic about old MMO's, but without the rose tinted glasses, they have to be seen as what they were - a bit crap really. Especially compared to today's games.

 

I own several old arcade machines from the 80's and 90's. I love playing Centipede, Metal Slug, etc, but they're nowhere near the technical achievement of something like Mass Effect 3.

 

People are asking for things used in WoW for a reason: They work! There's a reason WoW has 10 million or so subs while SWTOR has under a million (as it's rumoured) - the reason is that they're doing stuff players like. If players didn't like it, they'd all leave. I left WoW, and I left SWTOR - but I played WoW for about 7 years, and only played SWTOR for a few months before I got bored of it and irritated at bugs and other issues. Bit of a difference.

Edited April 28, 2012 by Scerion

[chimunga]

I just have to put my support into this thread. I don't have much more to say that hasn't already ben said.

 

We don't need addons. Just some tweaks to UI.

We don't need damage meter.

We don't need item level.

If we get a dungeon finder, please make an option for it to be server only, and DO NOT nerf the dungeons.

We do NOT need heirlooms.

 

It's not that the people who don't want this are bad player, and they want to hid their damage out put or crappy gear. It's that a player is more than their gear and/or damage output.

 

People have been whining that the Lvl. 14 inheritance items from the kits should be heirlooms. Heirlooms RUINED leveling in Wow.

 

@ op and the fanboys.

without wow swtor would not exist

without wow players, bw would run out of money in an hour and the game would go bust.

without wow bioware would have no reason to create swtor because, lets face it the whole idea behind this games creation was to take down blizzard and steal its cash cow.

because money, not sentiment, makes the world go round.

 

I don't understand what this has to do with anything? If there had never been horse-drawn carriages, car's might have never existed, but that doesn't mean we should go back to them.... Okay, terrible example, but you understand what I mean.

 

This is the issue WoW players are going to play WoW they aren't going to play TOR for long; If BioWare caters to the group that isn't going to stay with them anyway they are going to end up pissing off their core players.....if they are so big on copying Blizzard they might want to ask them what happens when you piss off your base.

 

While this is an issue, I really think WoW is gonna be dead with the pandas.

 

I just love topics like this. I love the whole "This feature was in WoW so it is the most evil thing possible!" crowd. There are a ton of features in WoW that would be way beneficial for this game and actually make it a much more enjoyable experience.

 

This is true. Wow was great at one point. But it has been nerfed so crazy much. Dungeons are boring and can be done in ten minutes. They made an already fast leveling process even faster. I never die in Wow. It's too easy. Games should be kinda hard sometimes.

 

Good ideas that Wow has had:

Dungeon finders. Just don't nerf the dungeons, and I'll stay happy. Infact, make em harder if you have to. W/e.

Duel speccing. Nothing bad about that. It just saves everyone some cash.

Server transfers. Not gonna explain that one.

 

Totally disagree with the OP's statement.

 

I want this game to be exactly like WoW. In fact, I'd like to be able to transfer over my lvl 80 Night Elf Hunter off Blizzard's Elune server onto the Sith Wyrm server here at TOR. How cool that would be! And wouldn't it be sweet to have your Sith Juggernaut strut through Stormwind on a Saturday night?

 

I should have went into game concept development rather than accounting.

 

 

 

 

Okay. That post was long. I'm done.

[Skidrowbro]

They work! There's a reason WoW has 10 million or so subs while SWTOR has under a million (as it's rumoured).

 

Remove China and WoW has what, maybe a couple of million subs?. Bad argument on your part sir. Also, do you even know who Gamesworkshop is?

[Zataos]

This game is already a WOW clone, it just is, and that's fine, just make sure that they include the good features that WOW had. I've never played WOW myself but they are the most popular game in history, by far, for a reason, take those reasons and apply them here, and leave what didn't work for a majority of players behind.

[Scerion]

IPeople have been whining that the Lvl. 14 inheritance items from the kits should be heirlooms. Heirlooms RUINED leveling in Wow.

That's your opinion. For the vast majority of people, hierlooms are very convenient. They speed up levelling alts, and allow the player to level without worrying about gear all the time. It's actually beneficial to new players as well, as there's less competition for loot if some players in a party already have heirlooms, so don't need any gear.

 

IWhile this is an issue, I really think WoW is gonna be dead with the pandas.

Yet again another "WoW is dead" prediction. It won't be "dead" - in fact it'll still be going for years as yet whether you like it or not. I don't play it any more, but I still have a lot of friends that do. I no longer know anyone in RL playing SWTOR - one of the reasons I left. The server I was on pretty much is dead.

 

With the panda/Pokemon expansion, Blizzard are obviously going after a different market.. I'm sure they've researched it and it'll push up subs, not drop them.

 

One thing I do believe is a good idea (and Blizzard never added) is to allow the player to choose whether to queue for cross-realm dungeon finder, or just queue on their own server. Cross-realm groups did serious damage to the community in WoW - and will in any MMO.

[Scerion]

Remove China and WoW has what, maybe a couple of million subs?. Bad argument on your part sir. Also, do you even know who Gamesworkshop is?

 

What kind of logic is this?! Ok yeah, if you remove an entire nation from the stats they'll be lower. Hey, if you remove the US and Europe from SWTOR's subs, I bet they'll be lower too. Genius...

 

Yes, I do know what Games Workshop is. It has nothing to do with the creation of WoW. Certainly Blizzard's taken ideas from all over the place. So has every other company. Star Wars wouldn't exist if it wasn't for Flash Gordon I guess? After all, that had spaceships, so Lucas MUST have based it all on that.

[Lewb]

No, SWTOR was made to replace the trainwreck that was Galaxies and to get all the aging Clone Wars kiddies. They don't need to steal players from Warcraft. No idea why they would want to anyway. That community sucks. Let them stay there.

 

Money!!!!!

 

Thats all it boils down to. BW want to grab some of the $100million+ that Blizzard get every month.

[Lightmaguz]

The day i log into SWTOR and see someone in chat saying "LFM Foundry +350 IL req or no invite pst" is the day i cancel my SWTOR subscription....and believe me,there are people out there who are asking for exactly that.

 

when there's an lfg and other modern mmo breakthroughs I might resubscribe.

[Skidrowbro]

What kind of logic is this?! Ok yeah, if you remove an entire nation from the stats they'll be lower. Hey, if you remove the US and Europe from SWTOR's subs, I bet they'll be lower too. Genius...

 

Yes, I do know what Games Workshop is. It has nothing to do with the creation of WoW. Certainly Blizzard's taken ideas from all over the place. So has every other company. Star Wars wouldn't exist if it wasn't for Flash Gordon I guess? After all, that had spaceships, so Lucas MUST have based it all on that.

 

You do relaize WoW didn't just happen? Blizzard started With Warcraft: Orc's vs Humans which derived from Gamesworkshop's Warhammer, that was an RTS btw..

 

Here is an interesting read for ya http://www.guildnetwork.net/guildnetwork/?q=node/29

[janne_josefsson]

Recount: naah, id rather go for a scale based system that judges you by dps/hps/dmg taken, ratings. Lets say that there could be 5 levels ranging between "very low, low, medium, high, Very high, deathmetal panda"

 

I really want to see what is lacking in a group and try to fix it by telling people to read up on how to perform their duties without the usual "i have now pulled off X dps and now have a massive erection" competitions.

 

Cross server WZ/FP's and serverwide LFG/LFF: ahhh hell yeah, cant tell you how much i want to run flashpoints for both xp and the experience (heh) it self.

 

I am close to my 4th lvl 50 char and have only seen 4 of the collection of nifty flashpoints in the game while leveling due to the long cooldown on fleetpass, and standing around in the fleet all day long trying to get a flashpoint group (further on, even that is not a guarantee because people are most likely out somewhere getting xp by questing, which i usually count as a good idea after an hour or so) is not what i count as "taking part of the community".

 

Good ideas that should have been implemented as early as EQ1 is just good ideas and should not count as "wowcloning".

[Aethyriel]

I just have to put my support into this thread. I don't have much more to say that hasn't already ben said.

 

We don't need addons. Just some tweaks to UI.

We don't need damage meter.

We don't need item level.

If we get a dungeon finder, please make an option for it to be server only, and DO NOT nerf the dungeons.

We do NOT need heirlooms.

 

It's not that the people who don't want this are bad player, and they want to hid their damage out put or crappy gear. It's that a player is more than their gear and/or damage output.

 

People have been whining that the Lvl. 14 inheritance items from the kits should be heirlooms. Heirlooms RUINED leveling in Wow.

 

This is true. Wow was great at one point. But it has been nerfed so crazy much. Dungeons are boring and can be done in ten minutes. They made an already fast leveling process even faster. I never die in Wow. It's too easy. Games should be kinda hard sometimes.

 

Good ideas that Wow has had:

 

Dungeon finders. Just don't nerf the dungeons, and I'll stay happy. Infact, make em harder if you have to. W/e.

Duel speccing. Nothing bad about that. It just saves everyone some cash.

Server transfers. Not gonna explain that one.

 

 

Instead of trashing all addons, do it like rift did it and allow only certain types of addons. All those UI tweaks people want could be done by addons instead of taking up development time which is needed elsewhere. A better scrolling combat text for melee would be nice for example, I don't see any numbers when dpsing a giant boss/damaging his toes. I'd also like a better visual effect for my dots with timers and see only mine, something powerauras did in wow (and a similiar addon in Rift).

 

We do need a combat text (we have one) to see what actually happened when you died to analyze fights better. In rift/WoW you could always take a look at the combat text and see where you took dmg from, helped improve your game, also you could see where you could optimize your dmg, see dot uptimes etc, analyze fights and such things, I srsly don't see the harm in it. Constant whining about how addons would ruin the game when all you're trying to do is take away options for jerks to be jerks.

 

we already have itlv btw, if people wanted they could do gearchecks like they did back in WoW before the addons where you had to come to a certain place and be inspected. It's the community, not the addon, the addon just had millions of idiots following the other idiots.

 

Of course a player is more than his dmg etc, but when you try to raid engame content it's pretty awesome to be able to take a look at new players and what they contribute to see if they are a fit for your team beyond their personality.

 

Also I don't see how heirlooms ruined leveling, they just got you good gear for your alt and made you level faster, I have 4 50s, I would LOVE to get more experience on the next alt one way or another, srsly, I only play it for the class story anyway, I know everything else in and out.

 

For the difficulty - of course it should be challenging, I wouldn't mind seeing a very easy mode though for flashpoints/operations for extreme casual players - with worse loot of course, but less trash etc so they can easily run through it to see the story - story mode was intended for that, I doubt it does what it was supposed to do.

 

Dungeon Finders are simply a must have - it's no fun in any way to spam /1 in order to assemble a grp, you can't do anything while standing on the fleet. With a DF you could do dailies or somthing else while waiting for enough people to show up. Would also like to see something like that for planetary H4 quests.

Dual spec is great, iright now, if you want to min-max you need to swap out players or send them to respec, both things aren't fun for anyone.

[Scerion]

You do relaize WoW didn't just happen? Blizzard started With Warcraft: Orc's vs Humans which derived from Gamesworkshop's Warhammer, that was an RTS btw..

 

Here is an interesting read for ya http://www.guildnetwork.net/guildnetwork/?q=node/29

 

Of course WoW didn't "just happen". As I said, I know Blizzard have taken ideas from all over the place. The same can be said of any modern company. Google didn't just happen either. They just made a better search engine. Blizzard made the best MMO by far (at the time) and so people stopped playing the others, and played WoW instead. I won't stop driving my car because through some twisted logic someone clams it's all based on a horse and cart. Games Workshop didn't actually invent Orcs either.

 

Star Wars itself has been compared closely to Dune. In fact a lot of it appears to have been totally lifted without change. In fact, name any idea in Star Wars (film or game) and I bet I could make some connection back to something else. Anyone can do it.

 

Hell, all MMO's could be said to be a progression of the text-based MUDs I played before the web even existed. They're nowhere near the same though. Only an idiot would claim that one only exists due to the other.

Edited April 28, 2012 by Scerion

[chimunga]

Like I said, jerks can flame you and do dumb **** for multiple reasons, once again addons can be limited in the functionality and gear score (i did hate it, never had it, laughed at people using it sitting on my LK hardmode mount + death's demise title displayed for being idiotic) is almost in the game already. If you open a pug you can have people coming up to you and gear check them, all gear score was is make random idiots without any "success" in the game dictate others how high that number should be. LFR was Blizz countermeasure, the idea itself was pretty good, just like dungeon finder is, but it was just way too easy, dumbing the game down.

 

You're right. This does take up unneeded developer time. It's just that it gets taken advantage of too easily. DBM much?

 

We do need a combat text (we have one) to see what actually happened when you died to analyze fights better. In rift/WoW you could always take a look at the combat text and see where you took dmg from, helped improve your game, also you could see where you could optimize your dmg, see dot uptimes etc, analyze fights and such things, I srsly don't see the harm in it. Constant whining about how addons would ruin the game when all you're trying to do is take away options for jerks to be jerks.

 

I think that while people are jerks everywhere, it becomes more aparent when tools for them to be jerks with are more readily available and easily accesible.

 

we already have itlv btw, if people wanted they could do gearchecks like they did back in WoW before the addons where you had to come to a certain place and be inspected. It's the community, not the addon, the addon just had millions of idiots following the other idiots.

 

But do people check it for every player they come across?

 

Of course a player is more than his dmg etc, but when you try to raid engame content it's pretty awesome to be able to take a look at new players and what they contribute to see if they are a fit for your team beyond their personality.

 

In understand this, but It also dehumanizes people, and it got to a poit where people weren't even trying to help eachother get better. It was "Do more Damage, or ****." There wasn't any teaching.

 

Also I don't see how heirlooms ruined leveling, they just got you good gear for your alt and made you level faster, I have 4 50s, I would LOVE to get more experience on the next alt one way or another, srsly, I only play it for the class story anyway, I know everything else in and out.

 

I love leveling. End game content tends to bore me. So I got heirlooms thinking they're nifty. Which they were, at the time. But then I noticed how fast I was leveling, and I wasn't really enjoying the game. You're probably think, "well, you didn't have to use them." But there were times when people would say "3+ heirlooms pieces, or no group." That got defeated quickly with dungeon finder, but people that weren't using heirlooms started to be looked down upon.

 

Dungeon Finders are simply a must have - it's no fun in any way to spam /1 in order to assemble a grp, you can't do anything while standing on the fleet. With a DF you could do dailies or somthing else while waiting for enough people to show up. Would also like to see something like that for planetary H4 quests.

Dual spec is great, iright now, if you want to min-max you need to swap out players or send them to respec, both things aren't fun for anyone.

 

I think there should be a cap on dungeons, so you can't just farm the sh** out of randoms. Maybe make the cap three a day, and then if you want to do more, you'll have to find PUGS in server. Yeah, it give a disadvantage to lower-pop servers, but hopefully BW is addressing that as we speak.

Edited April 28, 2012 by chimunga
typo

[Numene]

Item level is already in the game. It was in at launch. Rakata is 140. Hover over a piece of gear and you will see that number in () on the tooltip.

 

 

The only argument I ever see against damage meters is from people that apparently get upset because some 12yr old insults their dps. MOX is an example of how this is possible and for certain guilds it may even start to become a requirement. I feel it is rediculous that I have to go though 10 steps to try and help out someone with a rotation just because someone can't ignore immature people bragging about numbers.

 

 

The no addons stance will simply move people to using third party programs that then display stuff. This game as a dps right now plays like the way I hated playing a healer in wow. I have to sit there and stare at bars to see if a skill is available.

 

If you want to call that the wowification of swtor, then so be it. 90% of the stuff in this game is the same as wow, which was 90% of EQ. MMOs to me are about playing with others. Right now there are a few tools missing to make that easier. Maybe one of these days I'll actually do s FP before lvl 50.

[Skidrowbro]

Hell, all MMO's could be said to be a progression of the text-based MUDs I played before the web even existed. They're nowhere near the same though. Only an idiot would claim that one only exists due to the other.

 

pen and paper RPG's came out long before MUD's. Just saying. So your argument that everyone copies WoW has been trumped. Any more suggetions?

[Aethyriel]

You're right. This does take up unneeded developer time. It's just that it gets taken advantage of too easily. DBM much?

 

I think that while people are jerks everywhere, it becomes more aparent when tools for them to be jerks with are more readily available and easily accesible.

 

But do people check it for every player they come across?

 

In understand this, but It also dehumanizes people, and it got to a poit where people weren't even trying to help eachother get better. It was "Do more Damage, or ****." There wasn't any teaching.

 

I love leveling. End game content tends to bore me. So I got heirlooms thinking they're nifty. Which they were, at the time. But then I noticed how fast I was leveling, and I wasn't really enjoying the game. You're probably think, "well, you didn't have to use them." But there were times when people would say "3+ heirlooms pieces, or no group." That got defeated quickly with dungeon finder, but people that weren't using heirlooms started to be looked down upon.

 

I think there should be a cap on dungeons, so you can't just farm the sh** out of randoms. Maybe make the cap three a day, and then if you want to do more, you'll have to find PUGS in server. Yeah, it give a disadvantage to lower-pop servers, but hopefully BW is addressing that as we speak.

 

DBM was just something to give players any idea what was happening, the raids in wow simply "forced" you to use DBM, Blizz even stated that they designed encounters thinking players would have those addons. Later they added their own messages, which Rift also had at launch and swtor also has, so DBM isn't even needed. further; You can simply not allow them as a developer if you think they are ruining the game - ui addons, scrolling combat text, extra bars or things like that just help you personalize your gaming experience without giving yyou an advantage over someone else who is content with the current UI. I'd like to have a better health etxt for example, shorter healthbar at the same time, numbers instead of bars for rage - things like that.

 

Like I said, jerks can flame you and do dumb **** for multiple reasons, once again addons can be limited in the functionality and gear score (i did hate it, never had it, laughed at people using it sitting on my LK hardmode mount + death's demise title displayed for being idiotic) is almost in the game already. If you open a pug you can have people coming up to you and gear check them, all gear score was is make random idiots without any "success" in the game dictate others how high that number should be. LFR was Blizz countermeasure, the idea itself was pretty good, just like dungeon finder is, but it was just way too easy, dumbing the game down.

 

For your example where people aren't helping, I stopped doing that after a while after I've been ignored or flamed and whatnot for simply trying to help, like telling a rogue his dps would increase with different poisons or if he paid better attention to his slice and dice buff. Still - if my guild recruited a new player I would like the ability to see how much dmg he actually does and if he's any help to us at all for the content we want to raid. I mean, we'd take him on a trial run and if he stood in fire and stuff like that we wouldn't invite him again, simply because his skill (no matter what a nice person he might be) is not enough for the things we're trying to do. If his movement is fine, but his dps is not we might be able to improve that (we currently do have a tank who needs a lot of help and we give it to him and give him time and he imrpvoes etc) but if they don't, they gotta go - not kicked from the guild, we'd still happily socialize with nice people, but we can't raid with them.

 

A RL example - your highschool basketball club surely didn't take any fat little white kid who wanted to play the game, right?

 

As far as leveling goes: I love it, too, but I'd love it more if I could skip the boring stuff In WoW i had certain placed where I liked leveling and other zones I hated - with heirlooms I could go through the content I liked - you don't know how much I'd love to skip tatooine while leveling except for the class quests, I hate it - hate it.

[chimunga]

Like I said, jerks can flame you and do dumb **** for multiple reasons, once again addons can be limited in the functionality and gear score (i did hate it, never had it, laughed at people using it sitting on my LK hardmode mount + death's demise title displayed for being idiotic) is almost in the game already. If you open a pug you can have people coming up to you and gear check them, all gear score was is make random idiots without any "success" in the game dictate others how high that number should be. LFR was Blizz countermeasure, the idea itself was pretty good, just like dungeon finder is, but it was just way too easy, dumbing the game down.

 

It esentially turned into a** sniffing.

 

A RL example - your highschool basketball club surely didn't take any fat little white kid who wanted to play the game, right?

 

No. But if he really wanted to play, I'd certainly want to give him pointers on how to exersize and get better. If he listened, and got better, then sure. If he listened, and didn't get better, or just didn't pay me any mind, then he's SOL, but atleast I tried

 

As far as leveling goes: I love it, too, but I'd love it more if I could skip the boring stuff In WoW i had certain placed where I liked leveling and other zones I hated - with heirlooms I could go through the content I liked - you don't know how much I'd love to skip tatooine while leveling except for the class quests, I hate it - hate it.

 

That just plain needs to be fixed with more worlds. Same order for every toon gets BORING.

Edited April 28, 2012 by chimunga

[Ravnos_h]

People get nostalgic about old MMO's, but without the rose tinted glasses, they have to be seen as what they were - a bit crap really. Especially compared to today's games.

 

:o:o Blasphemy!!!!!

[Redat]

Of course WoW didn't "just happen". As I said, I know Blizzard have taken ideas from all over the place. The same can be said of any modern company. Google didn't just happen either. They just made a better search engine. Blizzard made the best MMO by far (at the time) and so people stopped playing the others, and played WoW instead. I won't stop driving my car because through some twisted logic someone clams it's all based on a horse and cart. Games Workshop didn't actually invent Orcs either.

 

Star Wars itself has been compared closely to Dune. In fact a lot of it appears to have been totally lifted without change. In fact, name any idea in Star Wars (film or game) and I bet I could make some connection back to something else. Anyone can do it.

 

Hell, all MMO's could be said to be a progression of the text-based MUDs I played before the web even existed. They're nowhere near the same though. Only an idiot would claim that one only exists due to the other.

 

All this finger pointing "WOW this and WoW that".......makes me wanna spit..........In reality, WoW ONLY had so many subs because you could play it on a 486 with a 1mb PCI graphics card and a 16-bit sounblaster soundcard...........THATS WHY so many WoW QQers are whining about the game running badly, because they are used to that god awful thing that takes hardly any rescourses to run......welcome to 2012 WoWers. Dont let the door hit you in the butt on the way out ---------->

[Criosdh]

I support a "No WoW clone" movement for this game. Like 1000% support it.