The reason why PVP below 50 is fun...

[Khoraji]

What like WoW?

Don't play that crap, i stay around EVE so please don't use that carebear term since i think you have no real understanding real pvp..

 

Oh there is a system that stops Corps from teaming up and taking on other people in EvE?? I wasnt aware...

 

BTW i was referring to competitive FPS games.

[bakedpotter]

Having levelled several toons now, I've experienced PVP on many different levels, classes and WZ's. For the most part, almost everyone agrees that PVP below level 50 is far more engaging than at level 50.

 

Now, as a curious guy, I wondered why that is. After asking around and from my own experiences it really comes down to one thing-- the expertise statistic.

 

This last patch they put in diminishing returns for expertise, and no wonder. People that were stacked to obscene levels would destroy a new 50 in a WZ. As a result, fresh level 50's would play a few WZ's, get hammered, and never run them again. Left to nothing but raiding without a proper LFG tool, and world PVP being almost non-existent, people simply quit the game and said there's nothing to do.

 

Yet, these were the same people that were in WZ's constantly levelling up and loved to PVP.

 

The problem is expertise-- there doesn't seem to be any reason for it except to reward higher levels of valor or hardcore PVP people, or to punish those who want to PVP at high levels without working the WZ system. Conversely, it also punishes the PVP player who wants to raid on occasion--- now that player must raid for weeks to get endgame gear.

 

The expertise system is inherently flawed , since it divides the player base and makes content mutually exclusive to gear rather than play-style. The longest lasting MMO games do not discern between the PVE and PVP player but makes them part of the same community. The expertise stat is an artificial constraint and perhaps is designed to lengthen the game experience for players, rather than letting players choose their own route to top end gear.

 

I believe if they eliminated this statistic, you would see more people PVP'ing and in turn make the game more interesting to both aspects of gameplay. It would also make PVP at 50 as fun as it was moving up.

 

Pvp below 50 is not fun. Thanks for stopping by.

[Jestersdead]

Pvp in the lower brackets is fun, but honestly its trash as well. Arguing its a level playing field is crap. Some classes shine at low levels, other classes mature later, but overall its the 40's v everyone else. I see premade 40's groups all the time... why?... because they have close to full skill sets, better gear, and in the hands of good players will wreck people in the 10's and 20's, even if those players are good. Also, most dedicated pvpers at this point strip expertise out of weapons and put it into their gear once they hit 42/46, plus the pre-order vendor has expertise crystals at lvl47. At that point its just a joke. The lower brackets are far from "fair", despite what anyone says, and can be exploited by 40's premades the same way a WH/BM premade will exploit fresh 50's. My powertech and sorc were godmode in the 40's, and I knew it. Edited April 27, 2012 by Jestersdead

[Razot]

Oh there is a system that stops Corps from teaming up and taking on other people in EvE?? I wasnt aware...

 

BTW i was referring to competitive FPS games.

You still mad?

Cause this isn't even about pre-made or pug, i could care less about that tbh, I just threw that in for a triple whammy between newer/casual players and why pre 50 can be funner at times.

BTW still not worth my time brah!

[Varicite]

maybe they should add an option to stop xp gains, so we can lock ourselves at 49 and stay in that bracket.

 

You have that option. It's called leaving the Warzone.

 

Honestly, I find frustrations in both brackets. In lowbie brackets, it's harder to coordinate a team, and people are missing skills that would allow them to enable tactics. Strategy generally doesn't happen outside of zerging. Mistakes that cost one side the game are VERY prevalent; almost expected.

 

In the 50s bracket, there's elitists and expertise, but you can generally count on actual tactics and strategies being employed and followed in the matches, and most people understanding how to play the game.

 

I have fun in both brackets. /shrug

Edited April 27, 2012 by Varicite

[Khoraji]

You still mad?

Cause this isn't even about pre-made or pug, i could care less about that tbh, I just threw that in for a triple whammy between newer/casual players and why pre 50 can be funner at times.

BTW still not worth my time brah!

 

Here's an idea, next time don't throw in a stupid comment.

 

Love the "not worth my time" as you continue to post btw.

[Razot]

Here's an idea, next time don't throw in a stupid comment.

 

Love the "not worth my time" as you continue to post btw.

 

Cause i am full of it yo!

[Spuck]

I disagree with the comments regarding "below level 20" or "below level 40" sucking. In 10-49 pvp, I enjoy each and every level all the way up. I have played many many warzones with 10-20 character where fighting level 40+ was just as easy as fighting 20-. 10-49 can be enjoyed by all. Yes you do not always have the skills that help you be better at your utilities. But one just has to focus on playing differently as one levels. Example: At level 10, the Gunslinger concentrates more on constant damage. At level 30, the Gunslinger can concentrate more on crowd-control rather than constant damage.

[Ismaldu]

no expertise is gonna result in even shorter fights then now.

 

no expertise = same gear in pve and pvp which i think is really bad

 

why i think alot like 1-49 braket more.

ex scores i huttball is much harder in the 1-49 then the lvl 50 one, this is because it more off an kill exchange then anything else, which results in there will allway be somebody spawning making surviving on the enemy half hard and the reason for this is, meny are still lvling so they are not healing speced = allmost never healers in the 1-49 braket.

no healer result in people getting more kill which meny like

[knottedbyfear]

Funny to see the folks that are upset we don't like their 50 pvp. I have seen most of the classics in here, spouted by folks who think they are the first to say them:

 

1) 50 pvp is all that matters

2) 10-49 pvp is less balanced than 50.

3) you have to earn your place

4) blah, blah, blah

 

10-49 pvp is so much more fun than 50, and no it doesn't come down to who has more 40s. They help a little, but generally, speaking once you hit mid 20s most classes have the majority of the skills they need to have a significant impact in games. On my first couple of guys thought keeping gear up-to-date was critical too, but even that isn't all that important in the lower levels.

 

Remove expertise and level the playing field and you will get a lot of the serious pvp'ers back into the fray at 50. Until then I'll continue to re-roll with my friends and enjoy pvp, while the gear grinders can have their fun at endgame.

[Hapox]

I love how people think 10-49 is more balance then 50 WZ.

 

Evryone that think expertise dont apply to 10-49 WZ need to L2Play.

at lv 38 you can mod your gear to stack expertise = starting to be GoD mode in 10-49 WZ.

not only you have expertise vs people who dont have any. but you have more skill /talent too.

 

~Hapox~

[Varicite]

I love how people think 10-49 is more balance then 50 WZ.

 

Evryone that think expertise dont apply to 10-49 WZ need to L2Play.

at lv 38 you can mod your gear to stack expertise = starting to be GoD mode in 10-49 WZ.

not only you have expertise vs people who dont have any. but you have more skill /talent too.

 

~Hapox~

 

You do realize that you can only get 1.9% expertise at that level, right?

 

And that the HIGHEST you'll be getting before lv50 is about 2.5%. I know, because I've done it multiple times already.

 

It's not nearly as much of an advantage as having more talents/abilities is.

 

Your damage will actually go up if you ditch the Expertise enhancements for equivalent level damage-oriented ones, or at least that was the case for me.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Varicite

[DarthOvertone]

Lowbie 10-49 PvP is the worst garbage PvP possibly in any game. Its only redeeming value is that it is better than PvE. Edited April 27, 2012 by DarthOvertone

[Aaoogaa]

It is fun because it doesn't matter. Nobody cares if you get owned pre 50 because it just doesn't matter. Lower level peeps understand that they don't have all of their abilities so they do the best they can with what they have...since it really doesn't matter. At 50 it matters and with the huge class imbalances introduced in 1.2 50 PVP isn't near as much fun.

[MrXen]

Having levelled several toons now, I've experienced PVP on many different levels, classes and WZ's. For the most part, almost everyone agrees that PVP below level 50 is far more engaging than at level 50.

 

Now, as a curious guy, I wondered why that is. After asking around and from my own experiences it really comes down to one thing-- the expertise statistic.

 

This last patch they put in diminishing returns for expertise, and no wonder. People that were stacked to obscene levels would destroy a new 50 in a WZ. As a result, fresh level 50's would play a few WZ's, get hammered, and never run them again. Left to nothing but raiding without a proper LFG tool, and world PVP being almost non-existent, people simply quit the game and said there's nothing to do.

 

Yet, these were the same people that were in WZ's constantly levelling up and loved to PVP.

 

The problem is expertise-- there doesn't seem to be any reason for it except to reward higher levels of valor or hardcore PVP people, or to punish those who want to PVP at high levels without working the WZ system. Conversely, it also punishes the PVP player who wants to raid on occasion--- now that player must raid for weeks to get endgame gear.

 

The expertise system is inherently flawed , since it divides the player base and makes content mutually exclusive to gear rather than play-style. The longest lasting MMO games do not discern between the PVE and PVP player but makes them part of the same community. The expertise stat is an artificial constraint and perhaps is designed to lengthen the game experience for players, rather than letting players choose their own route to top end gear.

 

I believe if they eliminated this statistic, you would see more people PVP'ing and in turn make the game more interesting to both aspects of gameplay. It would also make PVP at 50 as fun as it was moving up.

 

That is why there is a new tier called recruit. Its 250,000 credits for a full set (essentially free because each piece costs about 20k).

 

It gives you 920 expertise. Not to mention a full battlemaster set takes maybe 1 week to obtain if you complete the pvp daily quest each day for 1 week.

 

 

 

End of thread.

[MrXen]

You do realize that you can only get 1.9% expertise at that level, right?

 

And that the HIGHEST you'll be getting before lv50 is about 2.5%. I know, because I've done it multiple times already.

 

It's not nearly as much of an advantage as having more talents/abilities is.

 

Your damage will actually go up if you ditch the Expertise enhancements for equivalent level damage-oriented ones, or at least that was the case for me.

 

You are plain wrong. You can buy pvp weapons with expertise in them and pull the mods to use in full orange gear. I had 200+ expertise before level 50 (at level 49). People will say anything to make people "agree" with them.

Edited April 27, 2012 by MrXen

[Varicite]

You are plain wrong. You can buy pvp weapons with expertise in them and pull the mods to use in full orange gear. I had 200+ expertise before level 50 (at level 49). People will say anything to make people "agree" with them.

 

Gonna call bull.

 

I did the exact same thing, and I assure you that you did NOT have 200+ expertise at 49.

 

The weapons only have 14 (16 on the next tier) expertise on the enhancement. You would need to be wearing 13 pieces of moddable gear to achieve 200 expertise.

 

The last tier of weapons does NOT have expertise enhancements in it, for some reason.

 

My numbers may be very slightly off since I'm still at work, but not by much. Certainly not off by 100+ expertise, which is what you are trying to say here.

 

Edit: Actually, I didn't take into account that the last tier of weapons were updated in 1.2 to include Expertise, so it is technically possible now to have 200 Expertise at lv46, provided you have 8 moddable pieces of gear. Sorry for misinformation.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Varicite

[SlimsPicken]

this is an interesting topic, but the number of colored text people in this thread makes it unreadable.

 

we dont need colored text to show us how important you are.

[Blaise]

In general I have a ton more fun on my lvl 16 merc than I am on my WH geared operative healer or BM/WH sniper.

 

But I am definitely one of those people who thinks expertise destroys any sense of accomplishment from pvp. You could completely outclass a guy in skill, but because some kid grinds for days in his parents basement and has a disgusting amount of expertise, he can kick my *** 8 times out of 10 simply because every attack he does is 20% more effectively and he takes a lot more hits to kill. And assuming equal skill lvl's, that guy with expertise will destroy the non expertise guy EVERY time. If you want ANY kind of true measure of ability or skill, you have to get rid of expertise. But that is never gonna happen, its a grind to keep you playing. It will NOT be removed. And I (obviously) grind the 50 bracket as well, because I MUST in order to grind out more expertise gear to be competitive. Doesnt mean that crap is fun though. You should be able to be competitive based on skill without the grind.

 

Most of the time when I beat someone in the 50 brackets it doesnt feel like I outplayed him, it always feels like I just have better gear. Or there were more of us.

 

Expertise was added as a barrier to PvP and PvE, and is used as a time sink/grind to keep you busy.

 

So thats why I hate the 50 bracket, its not based on skill AT ALL. Its about how much you grinded a ton of time to WH. Of course there are gonna be people who have skill and have max expertise. But I dont want to have to show I can fight on their lvl without having to grind some arbitrary metric which has MASSIVE impacts on gameplay just to compete.

 

I may find myself "out abilitied" on my lvl 16 on occasion, and I DEFINITELY die a lot more than any of my 50's. But when I go up against another lvl 16, 20, or whatever and kick their ***, I feel like I earned it because I know neither they nor I had some unfair advantage (expertise) over the other. What mattered was skill. And that is what I personally find much more fun.

 

And expertise clouds over any arguments of skill in the 50 bracket.

[Varicite]

I may find myself "out abilitied" on my lvl 16 on occasion, and I DEFINITELY die a lot more than any of my 50's. But when I go up against another lvl 16, 20, or whatever and kick their ***, I feel like I earned it because I know neither they nor I had some unfair advantage (expertise) over the other. What mattered was skill. And that is what I personally find much more fun.

 

And expertise clouds over any arguments of skill in the 50 bracket.

 

I don't think you really understand just how much gear still matters in the lowbie bracket past lv20~.

 

It may not be as drastic as a fresh 50 who didn't buy Recruit gear against a WH, but it is still pretty noticeable.

[Astarica]

For those of you who say you're great at level 10, realize that a level 10, you've a blue quality main hand weapon. You probably can solo all the heroic 2s in your world, so you'll have two pieces of blue equipment. If you run BT/Esseles you'll pick up even more pieces of blue, and you might be able to solo some heroic 2s on Coruscant/Drummon Kass for even more blue gear (especially with Legacy buff to companions). Also, strong/elites are weaker at low levels relatively which makes it more likely you can solo Heroics. At level 10, a DFA can almost take out a strong mob. Try it at level 50 and you won't even come close.

 

Bolster works relative to your gear, so having half blue gear at level 12 makes you stronger than someone in all greens at level 25 (which is extremely common). But as you level, you'll generally stop being able to solo heroics since the heroic mobs scale faster than your gear, not to mention heroic 2s become more or less extinct once you get out of your capital planet.

[V-Serp]

The level 50 bracket is mostly just premades rolling PUGs right now. And I don't know where people get that nobody is in WH gear, I have 2 pieces of it and the premades that have been rolling people for weeks have full WH, although most people use crafted augmented gear to get the best stats.

 

A recruit geared 50 isn't going to be able to compete with full WH. Actually even full BM you're going to be at a sizeable disadvantage to a full, optimized WH geared person.

 

People in this thread claim all these people are sitting at 49. Well in that case, the alleged queue matching system would just stick them against each other, but you're not going to stay at 49 for much time anyway.

 

10-49 is just more balanced period. After about level 20, where you can get your first PVP set incidentally, the balance is considerably better than level 50 recruit PUGs vs level 50 WH premades. Since the gear doesn't cost much at 20-40 (plus weapon at 44, 46 etc) everyone that PVPs a lot is quickly geared up and then just buys the PVP medpac/adrenals.

 

I can 1v3 most recruits in my BM gear at level 50. I don't know where people get recruit gear closes a gap, it's virtually worthless. Maybe if you're a Mara in recruit gear you can still beat some Sorc/Sage BMs or something, but that's more because the class is OP than the gear is balanced.

 

The level 50 bracket is kind of for losers. The gear grind is way too long and there's not much point to it. This is a PVE game, you're better off PVPing from about 20 and doing class quests, then when you finish the story just roll another class. The end game is very weak in this game.

[arkzehhh]

Having levelled several toons now, I've experienced PVP on many different levels, classes and WZ's. For the most part, almost everyone agrees that PVP below level 50 is far more engaging than at level 50.

 

Now, as a curious guy, I wondered why that is. After asking around and from my own experiences it really comes down to one thing-- the expertise statistic.

 

This last patch they put in diminishing returns for expertise, and no wonder. People that were stacked to obscene levels would destroy a new 50 in a WZ. As a result, fresh level 50's would play a few WZ's, get hammered, and never run them again. Left to nothing but raiding without a proper LFG tool, and world PVP being almost non-existent, people simply quit the game and said there's nothing to do.

 

Yet, these were the same people that were in WZ's constantly levelling up and loved to PVP.

 

The problem is expertise-- there doesn't seem to be any reason for it except to reward higher levels of valor or hardcore PVP people, or to punish those who want to PVP at high levels without working the WZ system. Conversely, it also punishes the PVP player who wants to raid on occasion--- now that player must raid for weeks to get endgame gear.

 

The expertise system is inherently flawed , since it divides the player base and makes content mutually exclusive to gear rather than play-style. The longest lasting MMO games do not discern between the PVE and PVP player but makes them part of the same community. The expertise stat is an artificial constraint and perhaps is designed to lengthen the game experience for players, rather than letting players choose their own route to top end gear.

 

I believe if they eliminated this statistic, you would see more people PVP'ing and in turn make the game more interesting to both aspects of gameplay. It would also make PVP at 50 as fun as it was moving up.

 

Idd, drop the expertise stat.

[Jestersdead]

Gonna call bull.

 

I did the exact same thing, and I assure you that you did NOT have 200+ expertise at 49.

 

The weapons only have 14 (16 on the next tier) expertise on the enhancement. You would need to be wearing 13 pieces of moddable gear to achieve 200 expertise.

 

The last tier of weapons does NOT have expertise enhancements in it, for some reason.

 

My numbers may be very slightly off since I'm still at work, but not by much. Certainly not off by 100+ expertise, which is what you are trying to say here.

 

Edit: Actually, I didn't take into account that the last tier of weapons were updated in 1.2 to include Expertise, so it is technically possible now to have 200 Expertise at lv46, provided you have 8 moddable pieces of gear. Sorry for misinformation.

 

What are you talking about. A one hand wielding toon will have 150 at 46, and 181 at 47. I dual wield class will have 175 expertise at 46, and 206 at 47. I've done this on four different toons so far. The last tier of weapons were not modified either. Some agent weapons never had expertise, but the rest always had it. You only need the enhancement, which you can pull off anything. It doesn't necessarily have to be your classes weapon.

[Bastus]

The level 50 bracket is mostly just premades rolling PUGs right now. And I don't know where people get that nobody is in WH gear, I have 2 pieces of it and the premades that have been rolling people for weeks have full WH, although most people use crafted augmented gear to get the best stats.

 

A recruit geared 50 isn't going to be able to compete with full WH. Actually even full BM you're going to be at a sizeable disadvantage to a full, optimized WH geared person.

 

People in this thread claim all these people are sitting at 49. Well in that case, the alleged queue matching system would just stick them against each other, but you're not going to stay at 49 for much time anyway.

 

10-49 is just more balanced period. After about level 20, where you can get your first PVP set incidentally, the balance is considerably better than level 50 recruit PUGs vs level 50 WH premades. Since the gear doesn't cost much at 20-40 (plus weapon at 44, 46 etc) everyone that PVPs a lot is quickly geared up and then just buys the PVP medpac/adrenals.

 

I can 1v3 most recruits in my BM gear at level 50. I don't know where people get recruit gear closes a gap, it's virtually worthless. Maybe if you're a Mara in recruit gear you can still beat some Sorc/Sage BMs or something, but that's more because the class is OP than the gear is balanced.

 

The level 50 bracket is kind of for losers. The gear grind is way too long and there's not much point to it. This is a PVE game, you're better off PVPing from about 20 and doing class quests, then when you finish the story just roll another class. The end game is very weak in this game.

 

Absolutely agree. End game is dead, and dragging out your life as a 50 in PVP just makes people want to quit. Every alt I make is refreshing and fun in -49 PVP, because people actually don't feel like they're about to be steamrolled by a geared premade. They actually try. In 50 pvp, I see people just stop and stand there after getting a few medals because they're just done. I just get to 2k commendations, and ride the quests out until 50, grab my primary weapon and move on to getting Columi/Rakata.

 

Expertise seems like an annoyance to me.