Top 5 MMO's BioWare should model SWTOR endgame after?

[Stellin]

Just for conversations sake, what 5 MMO's should BW model additional SWTOR endgame material after? Not talking about an expansion,. Pretend you had to remain at lvl 50 forever. Which game formula would you choose?

Here are my top 5:

1) Dark Age of Camelot- Simply put....RvR and the best dam PvP of any game ever made. Endless fun at 50, plus it took FOREVER to reach lvl 50 in that game. Also...some of the best player housing ever implemented in a game.

2) World of Warcraft- Don't hate on this one. WoW did a lot of things right to give players lots of endgame material. I'm not talking WoW in it's current form, but pre-Cataclysm.

3) Star Wars Galaxies- Jump To Lightspeed. Crafting, Player Housing. That honestly was enough for most.

4) EverQuest 1- This game had it all as far as endgame grouping was concerned. You couldn't do endgame without a group. Hell...you couldn't do most of the game without a group. It had a sense of fear, and a sense of adventure, rarely seen is most modern MMO's

5) City of Heroes- Character creation. Simple. I would buy/play that game strictly for the character creation part of it. Hours and hours of endless fun. best character creation system ever created in any game (with SPORE, a close 2nd).

Edited April 26, 2012 by Stellin

[Deyjarl]

1) Dark Age of Camelot- Simply put....RvR and the best dam PvP of any game ever made. Endless fun at 50, plus it took FOREVER to reach lvl 50 in that game. Also...some of the best player housing ever implemented in a game.

 

Is that why they never broke 300,000 with that game?

 

Sometimes I wonder if all those fondly remembering DAoC only do so fondly because it was their first MMO?

Edited April 27, 2012 by Deyjarl

[Sasheria]

I have to agree with DAOC. Fun times.

 

I don't agree on EQ. You don't want to limit the last few levels of content (lets say Corellia and Voss) that REQUIRE groups to beat it. Bad bad idea.

 

SWG: good times.

[Sasheria]

1) Dark Age of Camelot- Simply put....RvR and the best dam PvP of any game ever made. Endless fun at 50, plus it took FOREVER to reach lvl 50 in that game. Also...some of the best player housing ever implemented in a game.[]/quote]

 

Is that why they never broke 300,000 with that game?

 

Sometimes I wonder if all those fondly remembering DAoC only do so fondly because it was their first MMO?

 

Similar to EVE. It is a nitch game. While end game PvP is fun, it is not fun for everyone.

[Catsmeat]

PotBS - Planets instead of ports, spaceships instead of sailing ships, contested ports (planets/asteroid belts/space stations), piracy, port battles in space ships, commodities linked to ports so control is important.

 

A touch of realm vs realm in the big fairly open galactic map would be fun! Just needs 3D space combat added.

[Bluerodian]

1) Dark Age of Camelot- Simply put....RvR and the best dam PvP of any game ever made. Endless fun at 50, plus it took FOREVER to reach lvl 50 in that game. Also...some of the best player housing ever implemented in a game.[]/quote]

 

Is that why they never broke 300,000 with that game?

 

Sometimes I wonder if all those fondly remembering DAoC only do so fondly because it was their first MMO?

 

Look at the time period of DAoC and when it was released. In that day, 300,000 was considered to be top of the line as far as sub numbers.

 

Remember, that is a game that existed before the freakish accident known as WoW.

[Kalfear]

1) DAoC RVR (before Realm Abilities and TOA and new frountiers) and DAoC Crafting sorta (Combine DAoC quality and wear and tear of item with SWTOR crew skill system and then lower the % chances so its tougher and slower to level up)

2) EQ2 mentoring system and housing system

3) Rift public grouping (RIFTS) and Explorable content bonuses (Cashes they were called I think, each zone had a special puzzle hidden for you to do) and verticale world design (multiple layers on each world that required stairs, paths and elevators)

4)EQ1 for monster toughness curve and leveling curve but SLIGHTLY lowed to allow solo play successful WITH EFFORT. Grouping would still be more rewardable

 

and

5) honestly no other things from MMORPGs worth a poo so ill go Knights of the Old Republic Paazaak, swoop raceing (K1 NOT K2), cantina pit fighting

[Darkhosis]

How about something original? Must we always copy/paste or are all the good ideas already gone...

[Lord_Ravenhurst]

Star Wars Galaxies, hands down.

[hairlessOrphan]

Is that why they never broke 300,000 with that game?

 

Sometimes I wonder if all those fondly remembering DAoC only do so fondly because it was their first MMO?

 

I think the biggest reason they never broke 300k (or whatever sub number they had) was because getting to max level was basically a humongous vial of Joie de Vivre Antidote until they started handing out free levels. By the time they started handing out free levels, the barrier to entry for endgame was enormously high. Premade Pain Trains were already well-oiled machines by then, and if you didn't have one, you weren't getting one.

 

Being completely unfriendly to new players is a game design issue.

[Sarfux]

mmos dont end. It's just what you choose to do at level cap for the moment. There is a lot of stuff. Go see my post "whats up" for those things.

[Lundli]

Remember, that is a game that existed before the freakish accident known as WoW.

 

Agreed, WoW is probably an anomaly.. unlikely to reoccur.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Lundli

[teambff]

final fantasy 11. in any positive mmo discussion i'd always mention it.

 

unfortunately, it was so difficult to level up i never made it to end game after 2 years haha. so i never actually experienced it's "end game end game".

 

i was a solo beast master back at release which was probably one of the hardest mmo experiences you could ever undergo, at the time it took so much effort, so much planning, so much positioning to solo level... but my god it's one of the funnest gaming experiences i've ever had.

 

i would tame a giant cave scorpion where other people were scared to even fight one in groups... and run around up in the harder levels with just me, chain charming mobs and fighting all these insanely difficult monsters... and if you messed up once you would lose around an hour of game play's work. (cuz you lost exp)

 

just copy all of ffxi, it's the only game i cried when i quit... not like balling my eyes out with tears but like the indian with 1 tear down his cheek thingy lol. and the only mmo where i sometimes lay in bed and have memories of some of the times in the game.

 

if you wonder why i quit if i liked it so much, it's cuz i became too addicted to it lol... i was spending 10 hours a day. choosing to play instead of sleep and barely sleeping just so i could play it. eventually like that tv show "intervention" i had a self intervention and had to force myself to quit.

 

if this game had even 10% of what ffxi had i'd be playing right now.

 

the beastmaster ffxi experience was one of a kind.

 

basically i'd like some focus on solo endgame rather than always guilds, guilds, guilds, raids, raids, raids... what about solo content at end game beyond mindless dailies?

Edited April 26, 2012 by teambff

[MrCrisp]

PotBS - Planets instead of ports, spaceships instead of sailing ships, contested ports (planets/asteroid belts/space stations), piracy, port battles in space ships, commodities linked to ports so control is important.

 

A touch of realm vs realm in the big fairly open galactic map would be fun! Just needs 3D space combat added.

 

I had a lot of fun playing that game, I'm sure some thing similar added to TOR would be interesting.

[Stellin]

1) Dark Age of Camelot- Simply put....RvR and the best dam PvP of any game ever made. Endless fun at 50, plus it took FOREVER to reach lvl 50 in that game. Also...some of the best player housing ever implemented in a game.[]/quote]

 

Is that why they never broke 300,000 with that game?

 

Sometimes I wonder if all those fondly remembering DAoC only do so fondly because it was their first MMO?

 

My first MMO was UO. My first "real" MMO was Everquest. Then came Dark Age of Camelot. Back then, 300,000 subscribers was HUGE!!! The MMO craze was just beginning. You had to play on a dial up modem. I played DAOC for years, until WoW came out. Then went back and forth between the two for years. DAOC was not my first...it was just the best (PvP wise....The PvE lacked).

I still play Dark Age occasionally. It's an old *** game now, and it's showing its wear and tear. But the fact that people STILL play it, and STILL call it the best PvP EVER says a whole lot about how it was done. Whether or not that can ever be re-created is a good question. It may have been a freakish accident (much like WoW)

[BucMan]

Potential End game activities:

 

Epic quest lines. Not EXACTLY as EQ1 had them, but perhaps like in EQ2. However the reward MUST be immune to expansion gear inflation. (One of the ways WoW really screwed up some great original quests)

 

Space Combat PVP. I'm not much of a PVP er but would entertain having it in space where you can better balance it and you aren't interfering with PVE character balance. (Guess this would be borrowing from EVE)

 

Housing/Ship Customization. Take this from EQ2 and the like. Let you customize the aesthetics of your ship to make it a bit more unique.

[GalacticKegger]

I would LOVE to see an Earth & Beyond expansion: the story-driven updates - where changes to sector/territory maps, fleet strengths & deployments as well as political power play plots all resulting from player activity - being patched in every month were pretty stout. Also its 1st person (dashboard view) free space flight/wormhole travel, solo & group PvE ship-to-whatever combat, PvP ship-to-ship & armada combat, and asteroid/debris mineral & biological farming were cool. THAT would make for sick end game. EA got it right with E&B and it sounds like TOR's space environment is slowly heading that direction. Wonder if they still have Westwood's code . . . Edited April 26, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[SentinelDranoel]

how about a orignal endgame please, lets kick up new ideas to the devs to keep things fresh in the suggestion forums

[Lt_Latency]

I think DaoC is a good target to aim for for World PvP.

 

It suffered from a insane grind and horrible old school base combat mechanics. With less grinding and a modern combat system it could breath new life into it.

 

The one issue is World PvP worked in DaoC because you had no other choice. It WAS the way to impovoe your toon after max level I'm not sure how well it will work when people have the option to do warzones instead

Edited April 26, 2012 by Lt_Latency

[WereMops]

I'd go with:

 

1) SWTOR space combat (expanded, possibly Group or PvP)

2) SWTOR Warzone PvP (expanded)

3) SWTOR Minigames (Pazaak, racing, puzzles etc with social rewards) and randomized daily/weekly/monthly quests.

4) SWTOR World PvP with territorial control (expanded)

5) SWTOR additional flashpoints & operations (both with more puzzle mechanics and twists)

 

Since I'd rather they model/develop their endgame themselves than to model/copy it from other MMO's.

I've got a feeling that all of these already are on the table as possible additions/enhancements (although it still might take a loooong time before all or most are added) but I'm not impatient, they're doing good so far.

Edited April 26, 2012 by WereMops

[teambff]

i'd also add, upgrading to an engine that's not pre 2006.

 

take all those millions invested and buy the unreal engine or something.. so it doesn't look like it's from the year 2000. i love old school games and all but i don't want new games to look like it came out on the sega cd.

Edited April 26, 2012 by teambff

[Stellin]

I'd go with:

 

1) SWTOR space combat (expanded, possibly Group or PvP)

2) SWTOR Warzone PvP (expanded)

3) SWTOR Minigames (Pazaak, racing, puzzles etc with social rewards) and randomized daily/weekly/monthly quests.

4) SWTOR World PvP with territorial control (expanded)

5) SWTOR additional flashpoints & operations (both with more puzzle mechanics and twists)

 

Since I'd rather they model/develop their endgame themselves than to model/copy it from other MMO's.

I've got a feeling that all of these already are on the table as possible additions/enhancements (although it still might take a loooong time before all or most are added) but I'm not impatient, they're doing good so far.

 

You CLEARLY missed the point of the conversation. See how many times you used the word expanded? Now go back and read the actual OP. See where it states "no expansions". Read before...post later.

[Arasys]

I say WOW + Asheron's Call 1

 

Asheron's Call 1's world events were awesome, every event brought something new along with many new quests. Some of these quests were very rewarding and only lasted a few hours ( people who were online always received the rewards if they survive at the end ). Now I am looking at today's MMORPGs, it's so sad MMORPGs are not dynamic anymore, players are simply doing the same things over and over again, the progression only comes with major patches and they ask you to do the new things over and over.. In my opinion there's a problem with that in general with today's MMORPGs.

 

 

WOW , boss fights and end game instances were challenging, here in SWTOR the game is so easy we can easily finish the new areas came with 1.2 in a few hours. My guild may be an exception but believe me game's end game doesn't really require you to be "too" careful, most of the time bosses only require you to watch your step and run away from their aoes . Ughh really ? ....

 

 

I also think since we have story line in the game characters should have epic story lines as a part of the end game. we should be able to progress on our own and unlock some of the things, get rewards or customizable unique features ( appearance, different blaster/saber look etc )

Edited April 26, 2012 by Arasys

[Drakkip]

 

My first MMO was UO. My first "real" MMO was Everquest. Then came Dark Age of Camelot. Back then, 300,000 subscribers was HUGE!!! The MMO craze was just beginning. You had to play on a dial up modem. I played DAOC for years, until WoW came out. Then went back and forth between the two for years. DAOC was not my first...it was just the best (PvP wise....The PvE lacked).

I still play Dark Age occasionally. It's an old *** game now, and it's showing its wear and tear. But the fact that people STILL play it, and STILL call it the best PvP EVER says a whole lot about how it was done. Whether or not that can ever be re-created is a good question. It may have been a freakish accident (much like WoW)

 

I think the reason DAoC was so much of a fun for PvP was something that for whatever reason developers just can't seem to find the will to implement these days.

 

1) Three realms. The importance of this cannot be understated. Where PvP is factional based there will always be a population imbalance. I am guessing there might be the occasional 2 faction game/server where the populations are extremely close, but, typically it has a some degree of imbalance. Three or more factions gives the opportunity for 2 factions to come together if the third is much stronger.

 

2) Relics. These gave a reason to actually pvp. It gave a reason for the whole realm to come together. During a relic raid, you'd have almost the entire realm coming out to defend (or attack) ferrying wood etc... PvP in BG's/WZ's is ok, but it just doesn't have the same effect. There was a sense of pride in defending your realm from a relic raid.

 

3) Player crafted gear - Typically the best gear to come by was player crafted and player enchanted. There were dragon raids and the gear had a very slight advantage 1-2% IIRC, but it wasn't a requirement to compete. It meant that most people after hitting 50 could get gear that was 90-95 cents on the dollar of what fully crafter players would have. Of course when ToA came out a lot of that replaced crafted IIRC.

 

4) Realm abilities - Although not perfect, it gave a reason to pvp outside of relic raids.

 

I thought about reactiviating my account, but to be honest I can't remember any of the account details now

Edited April 26, 2012 by Drakkip

[Kalfear]

 

 

 

4) Realm abilities - Although not perfect, it gave a reason to pvp outside of relic raids.

 

I thought about reactiviating my account, but to be honest I can't remember any of the account details now

 

Actually as someone that was there from the start

 

Realm Abilities is where the game started going off the path and failing

 

When you had assassins having 3 full insta heals (so stupid, idea of a assasin was huge upfront damage and no real defence if the upfront damage doesnt kill outright. That went out window when assassins just popped one of 3 insta cast full heals to get away)

The endless stamina that made chains and styles meaningless as everyone always had endless stamina. Before that players had to learn their character and plan their moves because they had to get it right the first time. Not just spam endless styles over and over.

 

PRE RAs is where the RVR was the best. Just needed to slightly tinker with the CC duration and add resist chance vrs cc to be fully functional.

 

Everything else was perfect.