Has this game turned you "off" to MMOs in general?

[flyersfan]

I still really enjoy playing this game but I've come to realize something: I hate MMOs and I hate the communities within them.

 

I don't need to spend my leisure time playing a game where some 12 year old can call me crass names just because they feel unloved. There are some good people and some bad people but it seems like I run across more bad than good.

 

This is my last MMO but only because of the genre, not because of the game. I love the game itself.

 

Pretty much exactly what I said. It's a shame that other players' behaviour has such an impact on the game. At least the game is still so good.

[hairlessOrphan]

Do you think actors in movies are just "reading aloud"? Honest question.

 

Some of them, yeah. An example I think most people here would know: Natalie Portman was totally reading aloud as Padme.

[Spartanik]

No, MMOs are still my favourite type of games. Sure, SWTOR could have been much better, but maybe they will improve in time (but I guess it might be too late for many who would liked that the game was not that flawed already). Anyway, I think GW2 will be the MMO that might bring fresh air into the MMO genre, while SWTOR tried too hard to be WoW in space.

well concerns me when the so called revolutionary MMO GW2 has pay to win model specialy when the main atraction is PvP.

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/guild-wars-2-news/when-do-things-become-pay-to-win/

I mean they will intruduce the buying of gold for real money, in order to combat gold farmers and such ( this was confirmed), naturaly you will see people more rich then others because they pay for it. way to go Gw2.

Dont get me wrong i think its a great game, and will be very sucessfull, but i think there is a great deal of people that will get hit with the hammer of disapointement. In other words they have too high expectations of it. Regardless yes they will introduce new concepts, and that will be fun, and a change.

 

Secret world seens to have a very interesting setting, and im keeping my eye on arche age for instance.

In conclusion, no SWTOR didnt put me Off to MMOs in general, in my case on the contrary, however i learned to not have great expectations out of new MMOs even if they promise the world.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Spartanik

[DevonDs]

No, this mmo has actually brought me back.

[Dayln]

Other MMO's, even good ones like LOTRO and Rift were starting to turn me off to MMO's, I had long ago given up on particularly poor ones like WOW

 

This one has turned me back on to MMO's

 

It it was not for SWTOR I probably would not be subscribed to any MMO right now.

[uziforyou]

I think 95% of the people here played World of Warcraft and had a great time with the game at some point. You get tired of a game and angry with the way the changes/expansions are installed which is understandable...

 

This game had so many Star Wars fans licking their chops and thinking that this would be the next great thing, because it's STAR WARS... and I had sworn allegiance to this game no matter if I hated it even before I played... but I hit Battlemaster about 2 months ago and stopped playing shortly after. Man I wanted this game to work.

 

I find myself still coming back to these forums because I care about the game and I invested so much to the forums leading up to the game.

 

I think we wanted this game to save us from the MMO genre that we knew as "WoW," but I think it turned me off to the whole genre as a whole and I have now lost faith.

 

I do however hope that this game succeeds (but I don't see that happening) and I hope people continue to casually have fun with it.

 

And seriously, you can have my stuff. First person to send me a message gets my stuff.

 

Good luck with the game!

 

Cheers!

 

It always worries me when I see people saying that a game, something they do for recreation, is making them 'angry'. And you do see lots of posts in these forums that use that word.

 

Honestly, if something you're doing to have fun, relax etc. is making you angry you probably need to find something else to do.

[CosmicKat]

Yes, it has. I never played an MMO before because of all the things I had heard about them: horrible player interactions, general abrasiveness of players, excessive elitism, overcharged senses of entitlement, and other such lowpoints of today's society. Unfortunately, they were all correct. My experience with the majority of the "community" here in SW:TOR has been very poor. I've met a good deal of great people, but I've seen many more that spam general chat with prejudice and/or disgusting comments, people that belittle others for asking simple questions, and the whole "if you don't use this specialisation, you're stupid" remarks. In parties, people are generally rude and are too "business-like" with the missions. I like to have fun and explore the areas, but many players just jump from one set of enemies to the next. It makes things boring.

 

Also, MMOs require me to play on a PC, which is something that I do not enjoy. I much prefer the use of a controller and the quality of games that come on a console. I miss having good graphics to look at. I also have to pay a subscription, which is something I haven't come to accept. I still don't like that.

 

If a Mass Effect MMO comes out (and is made by BioWare), then I'll play it. Other than that, I'm out of the MMO market just like I was before 13 December 2011.

 

The glaring irony in your post is that, to most veteran MMO players, it is the "console gamers" who have seriously degraded the experience of playing an MMO. The catering to the console generation has resulted in dumbed-down games that require little or no gaming or social skills.

 

Back in the early days of MMO's, games were infinitely more difficult and time consuming. Grouping was a necessity and your reputation was essential. If you were an anti-social repribate you would not get anywhere. Your name would quickly become known as someone not to group with and you would find yourself literally unable to accomplish anything ingame.

 

Also, there isn't a gaming console in existance that can match a PC's graphics capabilities. A console is actually a dumbed-down gaming PC.

[Kentontudor]

It always worries me when I see people saying that a game, something they do for recreation, is making them 'angry'. And you do see lots of posts in these forums that use that word.

 

Honestly, if something you're doing to have fun, relax etc. is making you angry you probably need to find something else to do.

 

I did...

[Dayln]

I did...

 

Including time you spend on the internet? Why are you on the boards of a game you dont play anymore?

[StrykerOne]

This game has its faults but it's at least as good as WoW. WoW is more polished in many ways, and has a lot more content (several more years of development will tend to do that) but TOR has far more interesting quests and storylines. WoW is really pretty boring and generic, which is why I never got past the 30s or so when I played it... it's good if you like raids and small group premade PvP but if you're playing for the story and game world then you better be a big fan of generic fantasy.

 

As far as turning me off on MMOS, nothing has done that since I still play TOR (and enjoy it) and still play City of Heroes (and probably will until they shut down the servers). Of course CoH is better in many ways than WoW and TOR put together since you get to be a superhero and fly around fighting 10 guys at a time... but TOR's storylines are fun enough that I'll be here at least a few months longer running various alts.

[LeMage]

I've played a few MMOs Some I was forced to leave (ie:SOE killing MxO) some I just kinda drifted away from (ie:WoW).

Some I couldnt even finish Beta b/c they did nothing for me (ie DCUO) Still others I still pop into now and again (Fallen Earth.) Others I waited with baited breath to come out - The Agency (Canned) STO (didnt like) TSW (coming one day). I did play SWG but was not so caught up in it as some were, then SWTOR came along and o/c friends were planning on playing so I jumped on.

 

Has SWTOR turned me off MMO's No, not anymore than WoW or MxO or SWG or.... did. The games have changed since I started with MMOs but so have I. Do many games have what I like yes, do they have things that bug me? Yes Do some companies' Customer support/ticket resolution work better than others? Heck Yes !!

 

But as the Architect said "Hope, it is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and your greatest weakness. "

 

I keep hoping the game I am playing gets better/fixed etc and I keep hoping the NEXT MMO I'll play will be just like ___________ and have ___________.

 

So even while I play this I look for other possibilities b/c its a game and when i get tired or pissed off or its no longer fun its time to gracefully leave and find another MMO that will engage me. I even remember playing Zork - PC & Text based - Graphics were awesome b/c they were all in your head.

Edited April 26, 2012 by LeMage
typo

[thominoh]

I've done my homework. Played EQ1 for nearly 5 years. And while it has changed, you can still play it the way it was originally designed. There's still AC1 which has remained largely unchanged..as well as DAoC which too has remained pretty much unchanged (yes, played both of them as well). Oh, but you don't want that. You want some investor to shell out 100s of millions of dollars on AAA graphics with antiquated, D+ game play. Not going to happen.

 

Follow the hand holding breadcrumb quest trail is AAA? Are you serious?

[thominoh]

Because after playing games like TOR, games like EQ1 make me want to pull my hair out. I recently downloaded EQ1 and my level 35 Warrior and 38 Druid were still there... 8 years after I unsubbed. I attacked one undead MOB standing around these ruins and like 4 more joined the fight. I got down to about half health and then ran for it. I had to run around about 10 minutes with them chasing after me the whole time until I finally found the zone entrance. I used to love that game...... not any more.

 

Dude..... If you had a 38 Druid and couldn't kill a skelly.. It wasn't the games fault you ran for your life.. It was YOURS.. Know how to play your class.. Ever heard of the spell "harmony"?? USE IT!!! Plus, you had SOW and couldn't lose agro from the mobs? Please....

 

/boggled

Edited April 26, 2012 by thominoh

[Gorgor]

Solo play was introduced because finding a group gets tough after the first few months thins things out.

 

But solo play is silly in an mmo context.

 

The nenxt huge mmo will be the one that finds a way to force group play out of necessity while making finding a group easy.

 

The early days of EQ were he most fun I've had, and aI don't think it was because the genre was new.

[DieAlteHexe]

Solo play was introduced because finding a group gets tough after the first few months thins things out.

 

But solo play is silly in an mmo context.

 

The nenxt huge mmo will be the one that finds a way to force group play out of necessity while making finding a group easy.

 

The early days of EQ were he most fun I've had, and aI don't think it was because the genre was new.

 

I'm not so sure about that, Gorgor. I think the "must group" train has left the station. Too many people with reasons to not group and too much money out there to not provide them with what they want.

 

I do think it would be GREAT if a company could come up with what you are describing but I don't think it'll be huge.

[Sotaudi]

No, no, it's not an objective fact at all. I didn't claim that. My only claim was that it is funny to me that people feel being read aloud to is so much better than reading. I assert that with absolute conviction.

 

Look, mang(s): I'm not saying you're *wrong*. It is clearly true that it matters to you. I'm just saying: let's all look at what's really going on here and have a laugh at ourselves and the human condition.

 

The problem is that your "being read to" analysis is bogus. First, you are assuming incorrectly that people read through text based dialog. If they are space barring through Voice Overs in this game, they are almost certainly space barring (or the equivalent) through text based quests in other games (or ignoring the subtitles in this one).

 

Second, it is not just being read to. It is about the acting, and there are points you reach where you hear the dialog even if you are space barring through most of it. Even that gives you a context you don't get in games where there is nothing but text. Likewise, you are also falsely assuming that, just because people may space through dialog they have already gone through before, that means they space through all dialog. That simply is not the case. For instance, the Smuggler responses differ from the Trooper and Consular responses, so even though I may have done a quest on my Commando or my Shadow, when I go through those same quests, listening to the Smuggler responses gives a different flavor, and even on the same character, hearing the response can be amusing, even on dialog you have heard before.

 

For instance, I regularly run with someone I have been gaming with for more than a decade. We do the dailies together on our 50s. Do we space bar through most of the dialog? Of course we do. We have done those dailies on multiple characters many, many times each. However, there are certain responses I will listen to every time, like the one where the dialog text choice is "Shut up. I'm in." On my Commando, I listen to it because he says the line with such a lack of conviction. With my Shadow, I listen to it because the Consular response is "It's better than putting up with this guilt trip," and the way he says it is perfect. For me, those responses don't get old, primarily because I would not react that way, and, therefore, would not read those tones into the text if it were just me reading the text. In the same way, I don't have a Smuggler at that level yet, so it is often fun to listen to my friend's dialog choice responses when he wins the rolls because the choices I make with my Trooper and Consular are typically the lawful/good type responses which are sharply contrasted to the more chaotic/neutral type responses from my friend's Smuggler. The voice acting provides a flavor and a context I would not get because I would read into the text different things.

 

Similarly, we were on Esseles last night running through what had to be the fifth or sixth time each between different alts or rerunning it to help guild mates. After getting through the part of the story where you "save" the Engineers, the Ambassador gives you a warning about the next challenge you are facing, and my friend chose the option which caused his character to say, "I'll kill anyone who gets in my way," and he won the dialog roll, so his line was acted out. Had this just been text based, we would have likely glanced at the text and spaced through it. In this case, because his dialog option won, we got a scene with him saying that line with conviction. For the next few dialogs, someone would say something wishy-washy, and, because we were on Vent, we were making comments like, "Unless you get in my way" or something to that effect. That simply would not have happened if the dialog was not "read to us."

 

The bottom line, dismissing the Voice Overs as simply having the dialog "read" instead of reading it ourselves is nonsense. The Voice Overs are acting, and they add character to the game that does not happen when you read it yourself.

[flyersfan]

The glaring irony in your post is that, to most veteran MMO players, it is the "console gamers" who have seriously degraded the experience of playing an MMO. The catering to the console generation has resulted in dumbed-down games that require little or no gaming or social skills.

 

Back in the early days of MMO's, games were infinitely more difficult and time consuming. Grouping was a necessity and your reputation was essential. If you were an anti-social repribate you would not get anywhere. Your name would quickly become known as someone not to group with and you would find yourself literally unable to accomplish anything ingame.

 

Also, there isn't a gaming console in existance that can match a PC's graphics capabilities. A console is actually a dumbed-down gaming PC.

 

I know, right? It's quite ironic that neither of us like each other (on a general sense). I've never totally understood why MMOers feel that console gamers had any real effect on MMO games, but whatever.

 

My PS3 is much better than my PC and it's actually more recent as well. Console games are also made on a level playing field, which makes the experience equal assuming you have the proper display (an HD one). I don't have to worry about watching SW:TOR videos and wishing that my game didn't look like crap.

[hairlessOrphan]

For instance, I regularly run with someone I have been gaming with for more than a decade. We do the dailies together on our 50s. Do we space bar through most of the dialog? Of course we do. We have done those dailies on multiple characters many, many times each. However, there are certain responses I will listen to every time, like the one where the dialog text choice is "Shut up. I'm in." On my Commando, I listen to it because he says the line with such a lack of conviction. With my Shadow, I listen to it because the Consular response is "It's better than putting up with this guilt trip," and the way he says it is perfect. For me, those responses don't get old, primarily because I would not react that way, and, therefore, would not read those tones into the text if it were just me reading the text. In the same way, I don't have a Smuggler at that level yet, so it is often fun to listen to my friend's dialog choice responses when he wins the rolls because the choices I make with my Trooper and Consular are typically the lawful/good type responses which are sharply contrasted to the more chaotic/neutral type responses from my friend's Smuggler. The voice acting provides a flavor and a context I would not get because I would read into the text different things.

 

...

 

The bottom line, dismissing the Voice Overs as simply having the dialog "read" instead of reading it ourselves is nonsense. The Voice Overs are acting, and they add character to the game that does not happen when you read it yourself.

 

I totally agree with the specific point you're making - when the lines are delivered well. If that were the case on the regular, I would move on to the larger point, but I feel like an alien because everyone's like: "wow, the acting is so amaze in the face!" And I'm like, uhhhh. I'm trying to think of a single quest where the voice acting delivery added to the quest. Maybe the one time is that little girl on Coruscant who asks you to rescue her brother and then calls you her second-best friend. But that's not because the acting was great, it's just I'm a sucker for little kids.

 

I have no doubt that there must have been other lines that were delivered perfectly. I just can't recall them ever making an impact. That says volumes to me.

 

The larger point is this: great voice acting can certainly add to a game - I can quote huge segments of Mass Effect dialogue strictly because the tone was perfect ("Metal in tank an excellent iron supplement for maw's diet!"). I still remember: "hey ya, it's me! Imoen!" because the tone was memorable and conveyed something about the character. The original Starcraft units had amazing lines ("Ssst, oh, that's the stuff." "...and dispense some indiscriminate justice!").

 

But of all the fully VO'd games I've ever played, the only game I would ever say I played *strictly because of the voice acting* was the Mass Effect series (and only as Fem Shep). That might not even be a true claim, either, but I'm willing to exaggerate because I thought Jennifer Hale did an incredible job, there.

 

So: people really will *only* play a game if it's voice-acted. Ok, cool. I get that, if well done, it can add a lot to the experience. But as the deciding factor?

[Caspian_Rho]

The only thing it has done is cemented the fact that BW and their products are better left on the shelf. ME and DA started the ball TOR has turned me off the company for good. As to MMOs, I'll beta test any I get invites for. Discovering and helping build something new is more of and a refreshing challenge. Edited April 26, 2012 by Caspian_Rho

[ComeAndSee]

As long as they keep up with a stream of content than this game has a healthy future.

 

The problem at launch was the PvE content was too easy and full BM gear only took most people 2 months after launch to get. Being limited by how many bags you can get a day caused people to just log on, do dailies, and log off.

 

This is sort of what happened at WOTLK launch with face roll Naxxramas and an arena system dominated by triple Death Knight + 2 Holy Paladin teams.

[CosmicKat]

I know, right? It's quite ironic that neither of us like each other (on a general sense). I've never totally understood why MMOers feel that console gamers had any real effect on MMO games, but whatever.

 

My PS3 is much better than my PC and it's actually more recent as well. Console games are also made on a level playing field, which makes the experience equal assuming you have the proper display (an HD one). I don't have to worry about watching SW:TOR videos and wishing that my game didn't look like crap.

 

Your PS3 is running a graphics processer that is several generations behind the PC market. Same with XBox. They both make good use of what they do have by concentrating all that power on a few things. The size of the image is really all the advantage they have. I have a 7 year old PC (my old one) connected to a 50" 1080p plasma and I compared the same games on PC and XBox and there is no comparison. I know that a PS3 is slightly better than an XBox, technically speaking, but the difference between PC and console is like Blu Ray to DVD.

 

I'm not bashing consoles or console gamers. I have an XBox and a PC and I've played PS3 as well. The games that work best on one are usually crap on the other. The fault isn't in the games or platforms it's in the game publishers thinking that the PC and console are the same thing.

[Grafikk]

I've played tons of MMOs and back in the day I had a ton of free time to play them. After quitting WoW (over 2 years ago) I got really tired of the idea of an MMO, there was nothing great out and I bounced around to a few f2p MMOs. Then SW got released, I was soooo looking forward to this game for years and had really high hopes for it and defended it passionately. But then all my friends stopped playing because of all said reasons on these boards and the game got a little stale.

 

For me the biggest flaw in this game is the lack of world pvp and the lack of pvp while lvling. I was severely disappointed by that. Also the load times, good god the load times. Horrible.

 

I've come to conclusion that I"m just done with paid MMOs. It's the same story in every game, grind to max level, pvp, deal with the imbalance, grind gear, run instances, get bored. It's a vicious cycle.

 

I find myself having more fun and caring less with F2P mmos.

[Dekkau]

Yes... Back to the console now. I just can't stand another game where I have to be given what appears to be some game changing quest just to kill ten of that or activate four of that etc just to see my XP bar rise or add a small amount of crit to my new shiny shiny. What I find amazing is that each and every game I've played I have gotten to be very advanced and yet even with just an expansion the new content is so kiddy lame poor. You can have just taken down the Lich King but move to the next supposed best thing just to activate a silly electric panel.... What ever. And so the thought of drudging through this or Rift or Warcraft or any of the others any more is just so boring. There is nothing in a current MMO that I haven't done a thousand times in one form of another. I kinda think the MMO concept is spent... especially as they drained the RPG right out of it. Its all bang bang thank you mam now with no effort and insta rewards, and the content is just so easy. I know they are aimed at the kids market but seriously, this form of game has become so mind numbingly infantile. Shame really.

 

And so I'd rather play FIFA I guess. And check out the mags and see what stuff is coming up with the x^o[].

Edited April 26, 2012 by Dekkau

[Dekkau]

Your PS3 is running a graphics processer that is several generations behind the PC market. Same with XBox. They both make good use of what they do have by concentrating all that power on a few things. The size of the image is really all the advantage they have. I have a 7 year old PC (my old one) connected to a 50" 1080p plasma and I compared the same games on PC and XBox and there is no comparison. I know that a PS3 is slightly better than an XBox, technically speaking, but the difference between PC and console is like Blu Ray to DVD.

 

I'm not bashing consoles or console gamers. I have an XBox and a PC and I've played PS3 as well. The games that work best on one are usually crap on the other. The fault isn't in the games or platforms it's in the game publishers thinking that the PC and console are the same thing.

 

I have never had a game that didn't work on my PS1, 2 or 3 or my XBOX or Elite... my Dreamcast or my Cube but on a PC.. you gotta be kidding me. Folk do amuse me about generalising about PCs. Not one persons PC set up is the same... and yet the developers kits released for the consoles are structured for the platform. And console games are way more complex and controller sensitive than a PC game... The PC is still based on the concept of GEOS and pointy clicky.... Nothings changes really. Processors and hard drives get bigger and the programs eat up the resources with inefficient bloat. Always has done... Well not quite... but then you would have to have a girlfriend that knew Agnus, Denise and Paula.

[teambff]

it's turned me off to this type of mmo, but not mmo's as a whole.. for the future.

 

the reasons why i got into mmo's were because of the idea of exploration... explorable, living/organic worlds full of atmosphere... that would constantly evolve and continue, in combination with being able to maintain a character within that game world over the course of a few years.

 

people can bash warcraft all they want but at least warcraft had creativity and atmosphere.. not the greatest ever but at least it was there... exploring new places, fishing, in the beginning it was pretty cool. not knowing what was in that cave you wandered into, or not knowing what you would fish up, etc.

 

there's nothing in swtor, it's completely soulless. it's like a paris hilton who, on the outside you might find attractive and interesting for 10minutes but after you spend time with her and get with her then you realize how little there is to her and how little she has to offer.

 

so, yah.. this game has shaped up to be a very disappointing experience and i hope not to see this type of mmo again... a soul-less mmo, with no atmosphere, no creativity, no exploration.

 

noone can deny the voice acting was fantastic, and some of the story was good (a small part of it), and i like the legacy idea, but you can't just put everything on that one thing. voice acting. i'd rather have no voice acting and an amazing, atmospheric, living world to go off and explore for hours than voice acting.. any day.

 

i've been looking for something to replace final fantasy 11 for me.. ever since i quit but i still haven't found it.

 

i'm looking foward to guild wars beta tomorrow because from everything i read they put a ton of effort in creating a world to explore.

 

so.. here's hoping it brings mmo's back to what they need to be.

 

this swtor style of mmo should die off and never be attempted again, never seen such a soulless, lifeless world in all the mmo's ive tried.

 

ps: why will no other mmo copy ffxi's style of character... 1 character you maintain and do everything with it, you level up all the classes with that 1 character and all crafting ,etc.. the main choice is which race/species but then you continue with that one choice.

 

that was the absolute, single most genius idea in maintaning a character. like ever. and yet no other mmo copies it? they all have that lame system of creating new characters every time you want to try a new class, etc... so lame, so.. so lame. get with the program and someone copy ffxi.

Edited April 26, 2012 by teambff