The Pros and Cons of a Marauder

[Anbokr]

Once again we're back to needing a team to beat the Mara. What do you do when there are multiple Maras? Because, you know, warzones aren't 1v8 or even 2v8 affairs in most cases. They're supposed to be 8v8.

 

So now you've got multiple invincible monsters that even focus firing can't do a thing about. Apparently everyone is supposed to run away, although that'll be hard to do with the Mara's leaping towards you, snaring you, etc. and then just killing you.

 

It's amazing that even the staunchest defenders can't come up with better tactics than "run away" and "don't attack them." I don't have a much better solution either. You just have to pray they are stupid and don't have any cooldowns up, or you can stun them before they can do anything (and hope they don't have the CC break).

 

The cooldowns are all pretty short though.

The dude i quoted cited the 8v1 not me. Hell you could beat a marauder easy in a 2v1 or even a 2v2 unless he severely outplays you. Same tactics apply. A team with multiple marauders lacks stuns, grapples, guard/taunt, ranged bombardment, etc... very detrimental in group play.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Anbokr

[Khojun]

The irony of this post is incredible.

 

So basically you sucked at the game and couldn't play it, but after the patch you magically gained skill while (you claim) the class itself wasn't buffed?

 

I guess everyone else needs a magic patch now, that is how people "L2P", with patches. Overnight.

 

If you read the patch notes you would see they did nerf range, they destroyed several range classes completely by removing damage, sometimes destroying entire builds, other times just cutting down damage drastically. Meanwhile they of course buffed Mara damage and survivability.

 

Prior to 1.2 the best players all said Mara was the best class in the game. On PTS the testers were amazed at what Bioware was doing, and told them Maras would be OPed. Bioware ignored the feedback, closed down the forum, and actively erased posts (and then banned) the guy warning them. It was soon after 1.2, and Bioware erased at least 20 threads because people kept re-posting the guy's post listing problems with 1.2 and suggesting fixes. It was really funny.

 

Oh btw now I will get this thread erased if they see it, although probably I would have to post the post that person wrote.

 

No, you people didn't just get good at the class overnight. No, you're not playing a weak class. And for god's sakes, stop whining about other people playing the class, of course we're going to play the class as long as it is so broken. Just accept the fact that within 2 weeks you will be back to being the worst player in a WZ because the rest of us will all have our level 50 Maras by then.

 

 

i had a rep main, a GS (63 valor) actually but was getting *** pwn all the time with maras to a point wz just no longer fun for me so i decided to roll a mara - 3 days in and hes now lvl 30 and with biochem hes so much more fun in wz's to play. if maras dont get nerfed i think alot of us will be playing mara's and also they have better looking wh armour compared to the sentinels. maybe if we all rolled maras then they might nerf the class, just like the SI hybrid (i have one too at valor 40).

[Exilim]

Interesting balance on my server. I'm glad I had someone targeted so you can see some* of them don't have gear yet.

 

http://i48.tinypic.com/5pesuf.jpg

Edited April 26, 2012 by Exilim

[Xerain]

Interesting balance on my server. I'm glad I had someone targeted so you can see some* of them don't have gear yet.

 

http://i48.tinypic.com/5pesuf.jpg

 

It's terrible allt he empire are fotm kiddies

[BiggDirty]

I am sorry, I was talking about current state of game, so mostly PuGs. I agree that carnage is great spec with good utility and still powerful damage, but you cannot shutdown healer as good as anni, you will lose more 1v1 because of lack of self heal and your burst period (after gore) is easily countered by single CC. Sure, big part of anni damage is countered by a single cleanse and when poeple will actually learn to play (ie. ranked WZ with organized groups) carnage may be a better choice (or at least equal). For a standard PuGs (which are main source of marauders are OP complains IMO) anni still > all.

 

Those things are true, but are not relevant in organized play.

 

I don't need multiple interrupts when the other 3 sentinels on my team are alternating kicks with me.

 

1v1 doesn't exist in organized play so the self-healing means nothing.

 

The only thing that matters in PvP is utility and burst damage. Carnage can put out 2k+ dps in a short period of time, while annihilation caps out at around 1600. And like I said, 80% movement speed is a game breaking ability, and if you don't have it, you are gimping your team horribly.

[Kaarsa]

i had a rep main, a GS (63 valor) actually but was getting *** pwn all the time with maras to a point wz just no longer fun for me so i decided to roll a mara - 3 days in and hes now lvl 30 and with biochem hes so much more fun in wz's to play. if maras dont get nerfed i think alot of us will be playing mara's and also they have better looking wh armour compared to the sentinels. maybe if we all rolled maras then they might nerf the class, just like the SI hybrid (i have one too at valor 40).

 

Class I as marauder fear the most are GS/snipers. When they have a good position and focus on me, I am lucky if I will take them down to 30% (if I have all my CDs up). Ofc, when they are shooting someone else and I can get on them, whack them a bit before they turn to me I have some chances (especially now with obfuscate buying me few more seconds because I can time it better), but otherwise...LoS and run away are my best options. I am sorry that you have problems with marauders as GS, looks like valor levels are meaningless after all.

 

Those things are true, but are not relevant in organized play.

 

I don't need multiple interrupts when the other 3 sentinels on my team are alternating kicks with me.

 

1v1 doesn't exist in organized play so the self-healing means nothing.

 

The only thing that matters in PvP is utility and burst damage. Carnage can put out 2k+ dps in a short period of time, while annihilation caps out at around 1600. And like I said, 80% movement speed is a game breaking ability, and if you don't have it, you are gimping your team horribly.

 

I agree completly (maybe with exception of "3 other sentinels" part). Now, why are we arguing in the first place?

[Shadyvoid]

With everyone calling marauders the new overpowered class and calling them the best at everything in PVP, it seems like a good chance to explain some of the strengths and weaknesses of the class as a whole. If only to educate the masses of people asking for nerfs to a class with very powerful strengths, and very glaring weaknesses.

 

 

I'll start with the Pros to being a marauder without much detail given as I am sure with all the hate Marauders are getting most will agree with them.

 

1. Marauders put out almost unparallelled damage to non-tank classes. If a marauder is able to stay in melee combat with a squishy target they can put out incredibly high damage.

 

2. Have the best defensive tool set of any dps class when it comes to temporarily avoiding being focus fired. It is nearly impossible to kill a marauder quickly with all his defensive CDs up and a healer behind him.

 

3. Have arguably the best tool set to chain interrupt casters. If a marauder spends their GCDs on interrupting casts instead of damage it is nearly impossible to cast anything.

 

4. Have the best group buff in the game between bloodthirst/predation. +15% damage/healing or +50% move speed can often pull out wins in group settings. Even with a 3 minute CD for an "on demand" buff it is still a very powerful ability.

 

 

 

Now here come the Cons to the marauder class with some details added for people that don't play Marauders.

 

1. Very susceptible to being kited. Marauders(and Juggernauts) are the only class that requires to be in melee combat to generate their "energy" as well as to do any kind of damage. With only 2 gap closers on a 12s CD and 45s CD it is very possible to kept out of melee range for extended periods of times against classes such as Sorcerers and Snipers. It is also a nightmare for a marauder to attack groups of ranged classes with knockback+roots. It is not unheard of to spend 30+ seconds being chain KB+rooted+mezzed as a marauder vs groups of ranged. No other class can be shutdown as completely as maras with coordinated soft and hard CC due to being a pure melee class with 0 energy regen outside of melee. Roots not being affected by resolve is also a huge issue maras have to deal with as it is effectively a hard CC for maras.

 

2. Very low survivability outside of defensive CDs. Marauders without defensive CDs up drop faster than just about any other class especially since they are in the middle of the enemy team. It is very possible to be hit with a stun at 100% hp with no defenses up and die in under 4 seconds to 2 burst dps. If your CC breaker is up you can avoid this, but then you run the risk of being stunned at <20% and not being able to pop Undying Rage. Much like the current Ravage/Undying Rage complaints on the forums against marauders you can't avoid both.

 

3. Nearly no utility outside of pure damage. In an objective based game this is a huge weakness, and a reason you will never see 4+ marauders on any rated WZ team. This weakness affects Huttball the worst, but also carries over to general group PVP. they have no Pull to kill enemy ball carriers. they have no Knock back to knock them off ledges. They aren't tanky enough to carry the ball. They again are VERY susceptible to any kind of soft CC such as roots and knock backs. Its not uncommon to be unable to stop a node from being captured simply due to being rooted/slowed for 10+ seconds >4m away from the node(they have to chase down ranged targets). They have to deal with the full extent of tanking stats of tanks, and do miserably low damage as a result to most ball carriers. They have no guard/taunt like other melee to protect healers, and in a game so centered around guarded healers that's a big one. So in general they are among the worst classes to have when you need something other then pure damage.

 

4. Are hard countered by Snipers in Group PVP to an almost impossible degree. I could list the many reasons why, but suffice to say snipers + healers absolutely destroy teams of marauders with almost no effort. Marauders also lack the means to kill an Operative healer. Between their HoTs, and their dispel removing the maras dots/slows, and their plethora of CC, and evasion, and vanish it is impossible for a mara to even pressure an Op healer that understands both classes. Maras also lose 1v1 to Snipers/Operatives/Tankassins. Say what you will about 1v1 not mattering, but it is an important factor in PVP. So effectively maras have a counter in Group PVP, and are beaten by 3/7 of the other classes 1v1.

 

5. Very weak at killing tanks in PVP. This might not seem like a huge deal, but marauders have to deal with the full extent of of a tanks defenses. Marauders take forever to kill any kind of tank in PVP. This is very important as to take a node or door you have to generally kill the tanks guarding it quickly before reinforcements come. Marauders are simply not a class that is capably of doing this. Marauders are also very weak at killing enemy ball carriers in huttball due to their weak damage against tanky targets as well as their very limited ability to use the Hazards to kill the carrier. Its almost laughable watching 5+ marauders try to kill a tank with 2 healers behind him. This makes marauders one of the worst classes when it comes to achieve WZ objectives that are being guarded by tanks.

 

 

In conclusion you have a class that is a powerhouse in a deathmatch style group PVP setting, but falls short when it comes to Objective based PVP as well as against teams with Snipers on them as well as against chain soft CC. I believe a large issue behind why marauders are seeming to do so well right now is partly due to the current focus on non organized players playing WZs like a deathmatch, and not as an objective based WZ. Another huge issue is that there are so few Snipers playing the game to counter Marauders, and trust me they counter marauders HARD.

 

So the next time you ask to nerf Marauders please understand that they have very little going for them outside of high single target dps and very powerful temporary defenses. If you remove either of these things then marauders will become very lackluster in Group PVP. If you have to nerf their survivability or damage than you need to give them utility on par with the other melee classes such as taunt/guard/pull/knockbacks/multiple stuns/ranged damage/etc.

 

TLDR- Marauders are powerful but have viable counters. Oh and I guess flame away and what not.

 

It's funny, I kite mara's all day long on my scoundrel healer. Its really not tough like people make out. They just don't know the CD's and abilities when which ones to use to counter then when they are used. You are correct in saying its all about understanding the class. Something alot of the community will never get.

 

The thing I don't like is every kid jumping on the bandwagon and rolling one cause its the biggest cryfest right now. Its all i see is marax5 every wz. It's kind of boring, bring back some class spread i say.

[Exilim]

It's terrible allt he empire are fotm kiddies

 

Ya it kind of catches up to ya doesn't it!!!

[Kaarsa]

It's funny, I kite mara's all day long on my scoundrel healer. Its really not tough like people make out. They just don't know the CD's and abilities when which ones to use to counter then when they are used. You are correct in saying its all about understanding the class. Something alot of the community will never get.

 

The thing I don't like is every kid jumping on the bandwagon and rolling one cause its the biggest cryfest right now. Its all i see is marax5 every wz. It's kind of boring, bring back some class spread i say.

 

Dont worry, when all FOTM rerollers will notice that being marauder is not making them invicible and spamming tracer/force lighting nets the same numbers (or better) at the end of WZ while being easier to play they will go back to their sorcs/marcenaries

[Xerain]

Ya it kind of catches up to ya doesn't it!!!

 

Stupid port nowhere. It's only a QQ fest because there are so many of them around so people notice they're dying to them so much more now.

[Exilim]

Stupid port nowhere. It's only a QQ fest because there are so many of them around so people notice they're dying to them so much more now.

 

Then you have to wonder why there are so many of them around now. It's probably not because they are a mediocre class.

 

And the melee trend has been going strong for awhile now.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Exilim

[AcidScald]

It's funny, I kite mara's all day long on my scoundrel healer. Its really not tough like people make out. They just don't know the CD's and abilities when which ones to use to counter then when they are used. You are correct in saying its all about understanding the class. Something alot of the community will never get.

 

The thing I don't like is every kid jumping on the bandwagon and rolling one cause its the biggest cryfest right now. Its all i see is marax5 every wz. It's kind of boring, bring back some class spread i say.

 

fraps or never happened

[alcek]

And why do people still complain about ravage? Its channeled. It's melee range. Don't stand in it. If you can't manage not to stand in a ravage, please never join of my ops. Seriously. There are lots of things in ops you shouldn't stand in. Stick to PvP.

Don't stand in ravage? Are you really serious about this? It isn't written on mara's forehead "i am starting ravage, run away". Most times i am in the middle of gcd. Ravage is 3 seconds, , gcd is 1.5. Many times i force push the marauder the second i see him starting the channel, just to eat even the THIRD tick from this skill. Run away? Slowed, full 3 hits will be on me even if i am quite away. Also i am yet to see ANY class to not eat my full master strike/ravage as a guardian if he doesn't use cc, knockback, force speed, whatever. And, OF COURSE, the cd on it is LOWER than that of the cc abilities.

So educate the crowd about HOW this thing /avoiding the ravage/ is done. And it isn't like this is the only problem with marauders. It is one tiny bit of their immortal OPness.

[Sleeptastic]

Pros - You have cooldowns.

 

Cons - Sometimes they are down.

 

People only remember what happens when cooldowns are up though.

[Gadzuki]

This thread is hilarious, reading all of these Mara/Sents explaining how they're not OP is like Officer Barbrady from South Park, "Move along people, nothing to see here!" lol.

 

FYI my son is 7 years old and he regularly gets 12, 13, 14 medals plus in wz's using my under geared level 18 Mara.... not saying they're a FOTM, facerolling, God Mode class... oh wait...

[Lockexxi]

Noticed how annoying knockbacks are while leveling my Sentinel and the need to hold off on charging right off the bat at times. Been playing my Jugg too much and used to charging in with unstoppable and laughing at the panic cc/knockback attempts.

 

Sents/Marauders make me sad on my Jugg (main pvp character) because I have to stand in melee range to do damage to them, which they're generally more than happy to do. Need to figure out what my best options are as it's not clicking just yet. Mostly come to terms that a Sniper/GS in good position will **** me if they see me coming. Voidstar bridges at the second door has made that painfully clear.

 

Does feel like the Sentinel puts out a sickening amount of damage, though. Kills people stupid fast if not cc'd/kited.

[Xerain]

This thread is hilarious, reading all of these Mara/Sents explaining how they're not OP is like Officer Barbrady from South Park, "Move along people, nothing to see here!" lol.

 

FYI my son is 7 years old and he regularly gets 12, 13, 14 medals plus in wz's using my under geared level 18 Mara.... not saying they're a FOTM, facerolling, God Mode class... oh wait...

 

I demand proof. If he's that good you should him a pt pyro or merc bh ... or stabby op.

[Niconogood]

I play a Sentinel and this sums it up perfectly.

 

Interesting thing I've noticed, in a large number of my WZs, I'm the one with the most damage received on the team. Not entirely sure what effect that has.

 

As a commando heal my record in a voidstar was 550k dmg taken (before of course the class got removed from the game). I really dont think maras are the one people like attacking. Everyone know they got ridicdonk amounts of defensive CDs, thus you will most likely not get a kill, and thus usually not targeted unless its the last target alive. Commandos are a freebie, because they got zero defensive CDs (25% dmg reduction 10 seconds every 2 min is a fkin joke), and thus a 100% guaranteed kill.

 

Trust me.. You do not know what getting focused means. No serious player would put targetmarkers on marauders.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Niconogood

[suuupertrooper]

Now here come the Cons to the marauder class with some details added for people that don't play Marauders.

 

1. Very susceptible to being kited. No there is no kiting in this game

 

2. Very low survivability outside of defensive CDs. Only their cd's are on 30-45 sec cooldown so pretty much always up.

 

3. Nearly no utility outside of pure damage. Yeah "only" having insane damage is really a con....

 

Just going to stop here.... Facing a marauder feels like trying to beat a arms warrior with constant painsupression, bubble and vanish.

[Kulthiron]

Sorcerors tried to explain as well, reading this thread is like Deja Vu.

 

Enjoy getting nerf in a upcoming patch, you guys deserve it.

[Gadzuki]

I demand proof. If he's that good you should him a pt pyro or merc bh ... or stabby op.

 

I asked him to PvP on my healing Sorcerer to farm commendations but he said it made him sad when he played that toon... he's a smart kid, I'll teach him how to take screenshots.

[Spiderbubble]

This thread is actually very very legitimate. Yes, I play a Marauder. I see these flaws every day. I was always top 3 in damage pre 1.2. I still am. I find that nothing has changed other than Ravage being slightly stronger.

 

That's ALL. Ravage is slightly stronger now, and Annihilation Marauders/Watchman Sentinels are actually USING IT NOW. It used to be useless. Now it's actually a good ability. How is this a bad thing?

 

If they buffed Retaliation instead, would it have been less OP? No. Because it combos with Saber Ward and therefore it must be OP because it's mixing an offensive skill with a defensive one. Give me a break.

 

The only reason Marauders/Sentinels seem OP now is because of the following reasons:

 

1) Lots of DPS classes got nerfed. Some harder than others.

2) The 1.2 Expertise system changed damage as we know it. This is the real problem, actually.

 

 

Sorcerors/Sages lose 1/2 to 3/4 health from a Ravage that otherwise would not have been used in the first place had it not gotten buffed. It's really a mix of them getting nerfed and Marauders getting REWORKED (not even buffed).

 

I'd like to point out that RAVAGE got buffed. Annihilation Marauders actually got NERFED, and the other two trees got buffed to make them more viable. If Marauders are suddenly OP, then it's not because of Marauder changes, it's because of nerfs to other classes, combined with the new expertise mechanics.

[Sayrir]

The cons apply to every other melee class, except they don't even have the option of 1000000000 defensive CD's. So what the hell is OP's point?

 

Edit: Oh and they're even MORE easily kited, because they don't have force charge. wth.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Sayrir

[Xerain]

Now here come the Cons to the marauder class with some details added for people that don't play Marauders.

 

1. Very susceptible to being kited. No there is no kiting in this game

 

Because people are bad and don't try to kite, there is a difference between there being kiting and no kiting and people just choosing not to do it.

 

2. Very low survivability outside of defensive CDs. Only their cd's are on 30-45 sec cooldown so pretty much always up.

 

30-45 seconds huh? Show's how much you know about marauder. http://www.torhead.com will give you a complete list of classes abilities, i suggest your get familiar with them as our defensive cd's are 1 min, 1.5 mins, and 3 mins. So gg.

 

3. Nearly no utility outside of pure damage. Yeah "only" having insane damage is really a con....

 

Yeah you obviously don't know how valuable it is to have a class around that can guard, nor do you know how great it is to have a class around that can at least throw out heals to help every now and then when it's needed. I guess pugging teaches you all about this game right?

 

Just going to stop here.... Facing a marauder feels like trying to beat a arms warrior with constant painsupression, bubble and vanish.

 

Yeah you should stop before you figure out what you're talking about. it's a good idea.

[Xerain]

I asked him to PvP on my healing Sorcerer to farm commendations but he said it made him sad when he played that toon... he's a smart kid, I'll teach him how to take screenshots.

 

I'm still calling you a liar. :|