Powertechs

[Otega]

ZOMG NERF POWATECHS NAO!

 

This is just proof that Powatechs are OPd, better get out the nerf bat!

[Numerii]

They hit hard, but I find them easier to kite than Marauders or Juggernauts.

 

Not saying that I beat them, just that I hold up better against them. Sometimes, their burst is just silly and so quick that you're dead before you can get range on them after the initial gap is countered by grapple. Usually, though, if I can create a gap, get grappled, and then create another gap I've got a good shot at beating them.

[glenbruton]

Wait... Im specced tank and Ive managed to solo down flag guarders plenty of times in Civil War..... PT shield spec is OP too?!

[Catalan]

Here is a mini-guide on how to counter Pyrotech powertechs/assault vanguards with a scoundrel and i am fairly certain these tricks will apply to every healer provided he has a way to remove tech debuffs.

 

I main a vanguard and have a scoundrel alt (yes both 50 something like 35 days played between those two) so i use the terminology of those instead of the powertech/operative one.

 

Triage a 4.5sec cd skill removes both assault plastique (15sec cd hits for anything between 2k-4k) and the two dots the vanguard uses to cast high impact bolt on your so if you time it right with the current high impact bolt inner cooldwon you can pretty much not die to one before he runs out of ammo.

 

Especially if you remove incidiary round and he reapplies it there is no way he can come up with the ammo to defeat you.

 

just look for the assault plastique debuff and remove it and from that point on spam triage on every cooldown till he stops bothering you.

 

The same applies for commando and sage healers (with talented restoration) you can negate the burst of an assault vanguard/powertech pyro if you use the skill properly and run him out of ammo pretty fast.

 

lol but our Rail Shot proc won't light up so I won't be wasting it. I'll just Electro Dart you, then Rail Shot, followed by Rocket Punch, then RS again. I've had many people try and remove my dots, but all it does is stop them healing!

 

Just for the record, I specifically play as a Healer Killer. Our class is made for this purpose.

[GrantyJPS]

Yes they are very strong, but only really damage-wise. As a merc, if I get jumped then I'm at 50% before I know it and will lose, but in a you-see-me-coming, I-see-you-coming scenario, I feel I have a decent shot of at least scoring some nice damage of my own, even if I don't win. And if I do win, I can get the kill. They don't have any stupid defensive CDs or vanish or any of that ridiculous nonsense.

 

Same situation vs a marauder I know he's gonna be on me constantly, I'm going to be able to cast almost nothing, and even if he's terrible and lets me get him low, he can just vanish or pop godmode or run off a couple of yards and then leap out of range yada-yada.

[TheGreatFrosty]

Powertechs are overpowered. There is no other debate to be had. Any honest Powertech will tell you the same.

 

Yes they CAN be defeated by well timed kiting and seeing them coming, saving all stuns etc. But this isn't to say they aren't overpowered. PVP is a close proximity environment most of the time. They have ridiculous burst, higher than at operative on instant casts and nearly spammable. It is DPS in easy mode.

[DcyfR]

Powertechs have insane burst. However so do many classes. Atleast you know when a powertech is coming. And they have no escape mechanics. Its do or die for a powertech no vanish or 99% immunity. Also most of their damage can be mitigated by a healer removing the fire dots which few actually do.

[Varicite]

Powertechs are overpowered. There is no other debate to be had. Any honest Powertech will tell you the same.

 

Yes they CAN be defeated by well timed kiting and seeing them coming, saving all stuns etc. But this isn't to say they aren't overpowered. PVP is a close proximity environment most of the time. They have ridiculous burst, higher than at operative on instant casts and nearly spammable. It is DPS in easy mode.

 

Powertechs don't have stealth or any way to escape a battle. They do have insane burst, but so do other classes. They don't have any real utility outside of taunts and grapple. They don't have any real defenses.

 

That is not overpowered. That is called "balanced".

 

If they were to have their incredible burst and the survivability of, say, a Marauder... then that could be called overpowered.

[Antipodes]

Triage a 4.5sec cd skill removes both assault plastique (15sec cd hits for anything between 2k-4k) and the two dots the vanguard uses to cast high impact bolt on your so if you time it right with the current high impact bolt inner cooldwon you can pretty much not die to one before he runs out of ammo.

 

Are you sure you can remove assault plastique with triage? I've tried it on my scoundrel and it didn't seem to come off. I'm pretty sure dodge removes it, but that is on a 60 second cooldown.

[Varicite]

Are you sure you can remove assault plastique with triage? I've tried it on my scoundrel and it didn't seem to come off. I'm pretty sure dodge removes it, but that is on a 60 second cooldown.

 

You can't dispel Thermal Detonator through normal means. I imagine it works the same way for Assault Plastique.

 

It's still helpful to remove the DoT though, as it makes them spend more resources to keep it up and can sometimes cause them to waste a GCD to put the DoT back up so that they can use High-Impact Bolt, which can often buy you a little more time to heal or LoS.

 

Don't underestimate just how costly it can be to force an Assault Vanguard to use extra ammo, when they are already strapped as it is.

 

The only way to really beat an Assault Specialist is to outlast their initial burst phase and then take them out when they are waiting on timers and have to be more conservative w/ their resources. That's why sturdy classes like Maras and Tankasins can take them down.

[Derian]

Powertechs don't have stealth or any way to escape a battle. They do have insane burst, but so do other classes. They don't have any real utility outside of taunts and grapple. They don't have any real defenses.

 

That is not overpowered. That is called "balanced".

 

If they were to have their incredible burst and the survivability of, say, a Marauder... then that could be called overpowered.

 

Marauders don't have incredible burst. Can you point out what abilities a marauder has that does high burst?

[exphryl]

Marauders don't have incredible burst. Can you point out what abilities a marauder has that does high burst?

 

Gore + Ravage.

Edited April 26, 2012 by exphryl

[-Eternal-]

Just wondering, is anybody having as much of a problem with them as I am?

 

Pre 1.2 they never really concerned me, post 1.2 the burst damage is just silly...

 

 

Powertechs have amazing non-mitigated damage but absolutely no survivability. If they had survivability then they would pretty much be mauraders....but then again everyone would.

[SajPl]

Yes they are very strong, but only really damage-wise. As a merc, if I get jumped then I'm at 50% before I know it and will lose, but in a you-see-me-coming, I-see-you-coming scenario, I feel I have a decent shot of at least scoring some nice damage of my own, even if I don't win. And if I do win, I can get the kill. They don't have any stupid defensive CDs or vanish or any of that ridiculous nonsense.

 

Same situation vs a marauder I know he's gonna be on me constantly, I'm going to be able to cast almost nothing, and even if he's terrible and lets me get him low, he can just vanish or pop godmode or run off a couple of yards and then leap out of range yada-yada.

 

This.

 

Pyro = Big damage, low survivability = balance.

Mara = Big damage, highier survivability than a tank = ?

[Varicite]

Marauders don't have incredible burst. Can you point out what abilities a marauder has that does high burst?

 

Can you point out to me where I said that they did?. <.<

Edited April 26, 2012 by Varicite

[Teabaker]

Marauders don't have incredible burst. Can you point out what abilities a marauder has that does high burst?

 

Gore, Massacre, Ravage. Deadly Sabers -> Ravage -> Annihilation. Force Crush -> Ravage -> Smash.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Teabaker

[aRtFuL]

Gore, Massacre, Ravage. Deadly Sabers -> Ravage -> Annihilation. Force Crush -> Ravage -> Smash.

 

Actually for the Carnage rotation you've missed force scream - that is the main bread and butter of carnage burst more that ravage because scream garrantee's crit after massacre, and carnage spec scream hits like a truck.

 

Back on topic, yes powertech/vanguard have great bursts, but the thing to remember is that we also have 0 escape abilities. So once you are in a fight, you better win cuz there is no way both you and him will come out of it alive. If I failed to win with my mara however because another guy jump in to help my opponent, I can always get out with force camo and my defensive cooldowns. Of course on the other hand PTs can also start or finish a fight from a much greater range.

Edited April 26, 2012 by aRtFuL

[ekwalizer]

From a healer perspective, pyro powertechs do the most scary damage. If one converges on a healer with any other dps class for even a few seconds, it usually leads to a surprisingly swift death. It's silly how little effort is needed for a powertech to do unhealable damage.

 

However, they don't have nearly the defensive CDs that a marauder does, and they go down surprisingly fast.

 

I know which group you are talking about, and the reason they do well is more to do with the lack of good Rep players left on our server. Not saying powertech isn't among the top-tier (marauder, powertech, and tank-assassins), but I still think marauders are better overall.

 

Wait are you implying that as a healer you should be able to out-heal two DPSers on you?

[KBSIP]

How to stop a pyro;

 

remove the DoT.

 

That is all.

 

okay okay i'll expound;

 

Almost all of the heat management for pyros and extra damage output comes from the ~ 1-2k elemental DoT they apply from flame burst in close quarters, or the 18 second dot from an open with incendiary missile.

 

Cleansing this DoT will;

1) disable their ability to even cast their railshot on you until they reapply the DoT

2) instantly mitigate what would normally be a free 2k damage for the PT even if they die

3) confuse bad powertechs by making them continue to spam their railshot and wondering why it isn't working while its off CD

 

Powertechs function essentially the same as Mercenary spammers in their damage potential while they're in the pyro spec; they are dependent on the status of the enemy. If you properly cleanse the DoT that the pyro applies, you'll be shutting down much of their damage potential and force them to burn through resources faster. If you're a DPS taking a pyro on, I'm fairly certain that the one melee class, assassins, have a purge, and the other, marauders, has a damage immunity phase and a combat cloak. Both of these can be used to confuse and proceed to eliminating a pyro, albeit in a very close fight.

[aRtFuL]

How to stop a pyro;

 

remove the DoT.

 

That is probably much easier said then done, since an assault/pyro's dotting abilities has no cooldown, and the fact that the tank/cell (which means their basic attacks) also can apply dots, so basically you will be constantly burnt by dots when fighting against a PT/Van.

 

It will only help for a very small gap of time, and will actually ended up being a waste of a healer's resource to prevent something that is going to occur with virtually no waste of resources on the part PT/Van to apply on you. You are better off healing with those resources.

 

Tracer spam can be easily interrupted on the contrary, so totally different compare Tracer Merc to Pyro PT.

[KBSIP]

That is probably much easier said then done, since an assault/pyro's dotting abilities has no cooldown, and the fact that the tank/cell (which means their basic attacks) also can apply dots, so basically you will be constantly burnt by dots when fighting against a PT/Van.

 

It will only help for a very small gap of time, and will actually ended up being a waste of a healer's resource to prevent something that is going to occur with virtually no waste of resources on the part PT/Van to apply on you. You are better off healing with those resources.

 

Tracer spam can be easily interrupted on the contrary, so totally different compare Tracer Merc to Pyro PT.

 

pyro's choice to apply a dot is a 15 heat or 25 heat ability. if they use the 15 heat ability, it increases the chance of a "false proc", procuring a free, instant railshot when railshot is already on cooldown, which instnataneously puts the procs on a 6 second cooldown after it is used. This severely impairs their burst capability, and heat management gets much more difficult. Simply healing through damage is an idiot's strategy; forcing the enemy to overheat will more effectively shut down a pyro.

[Rustybucket_]

You should have seen what we could do pre-1.2 if you think the burst is crazy right now. : )

 

Oh I know, Mint on shien server is my level 50 powertech dps.

 

I just dont remember him doing THAT much damage lol

[Varicite]

That is probably much easier said then done, since an assault/pyro's dotting abilities has no cooldown, and the fact that the tank/cell (which means their basic attacks) also can apply dots, so basically you will be constantly burnt by dots when fighting against a PT/Van.

 

It will only help for a very small gap of time, and will actually ended up being a waste of a healer's resource to prevent something that is going to occur with virtually no waste of resources on the part PT/Van to apply on you. You are better off healing with those resources.

 

Tracer spam can be easily interrupted on the contrary, so totally different compare Tracer Merc to Pyro PT.

 

Every single time a PT has to use their DoT attack, it costs at LEAST 1/6 of their resource pool. If you manage to gain distance on them and they have to use Incendiary Missile, that is 1/4 of their resource pool. The more of their resource they use, the SLOWER they regen this resource, and the less they can use other abilities.

 

What you are doing here is falling into a common misconception that you are better off healing than wasting the gcd on dispelling the DoT, especially since they can just reapply it soon thereafter. What you WANT is for them to have to reapply it. The sooner they overheat, the better your chances of survival.

 

You also mention the tank cell for some reason. Pyros don't use that cell, especially after 1.2. Only tanks use that cell these days, and tank PTs won't be killing any smart healers.

 

These are Powertechs who are telling you that the best way to slow down their damage so that you can maybe survive is to get rid of the only thing allowing them to crit you for 4-5k back-to-back, or at least make it harder for them to do this to you. You can keep on putting your fingers in your ears and screaming LA-LA-LA-LA as loud as you can if you like, though.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Varicite

[exphryl]

Can you cleanse the dot ? Yes

 

Can we reapply it automatically? Yes

 

Does it make us waste a GCD on reapplying it instead of rail shotting? Yes (Note: This is the important part)

[aRtFuL]

You also mention the tank cell for some reason. Pyros don't use that cell, especially after 1.2. Only tanks use that cell these days, and tank PTs won't be killing any smart healers.

 

I didn't say tank cell, I said tank/cell (or in other words, tank or cell). For vanguard it is cell, for PT it is gas tank (or cylinder rather) but that's what I meant by tank/cell.

 

pyro's choice to apply a dot is a 15 heat or 25 heat ability. if they use the 15 heat ability, it increases the chance of a "false proc", procuring a free, instant railshot when railshot is already on cooldown, which instnataneously puts the procs on a 6 second cooldown after it is used. This severely impairs their burst capability, and heat management gets much more difficult. Simply healing through damage is an idiot's strategy; forcing the enemy to overheat will more effectively shut down a pyro.

 

You can also get dots from just shooting a few times easily, and that costs no heat.

 

You can't really shutdown dots from a pyro, it is almost garrantee to be on target most of the time.

Edited April 26, 2012 by aRtFuL