islander Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 I agree only in the sense that roots shouldn't work when resolve is full. Just like knockbacks don't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Philar Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 (edited) I'll be expecting a couple of terabytes of hard drives to fraps any and all games, a secondary computer to edit and encode on, finally a competent guy to handle the editing and encoding, once received I'll show you multiple occasions where what the resolve bar tells you and what actually happens doesn't match up. It's not the players job to make sure the game works as intended, we pay to play not to bug hunt and make videos of strange behavior. It is your job to show a bug if you want to convince intelligent people that it exists. Bioware has logs they can review to see if what you state is true, if you filed actual bug reports when this happens they would see it. We don't have those logs, all we have is the result of testing that shows your statements to be false. Since you are the one making the claims, you need to back it up with evidence. If you don't, we just ignore your pointless anecdotes and correct your misstatements so that your falsifications don't confuse newbies. I should point out that everyone WANTS bugs to be fixed if they exist. You just need to show that they exist if you want us to back you up since all testing available indicates those bugs don't exist. Edited April 25, 2012 by Darth_Philar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vimm Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Yeah because resolve is working........ How isn't resolve working? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans_Brix Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 It is working, well for my server anyways. Whenever my resolve bar is full, I am immune to Stuns, Knockback and Saps. like it was intended to do. Snares and roots do not fill the resolve bar and do not respect the resolve bar mechanic. A full resolve bar isnt supposed to stop snares/roots Tell that to snipers/GS, Leg shot DOES increase resolve and is "run through" by a full resolve bar ticking down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozse Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 (edited) It is your job to show a bug if you want to convince intelligent people that it exists. I'm sorry but it's not my job to do anything, it's their job to make sure the game works as it should, this is why we pay a subscription you know, for them to provide a service that we as customers are satisfied with. The days where game development was games made by gamers for gamers are long gone and with them any and all expectancy of player input, games are big business these days, the new Hollywood and they should be treated as such. To be fair though, a lot of the discrepancies between resolve bar and what actually happens can be put on really poor server side sync from what I can tell, you know the same thing that causes players on your screen to get stuck mid air for some time before shooting off to the location where they actually are, the same poor sync that makes the guy that's 15 meters away from you on your screen see you while stealth as if he was stood next to you (he probably was to) or are you going do deny that those are issues as well because no one recorded a detailed video of their existence. Edited April 25, 2012 by Bozse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzoong Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Tell that to snipers/GS, Leg shot DOES increase resolve and is "run through" by a full resolve bar ticking down. Really? Never saw that, care to fraps that in a duel and post the vid? It should not be hard to show that and it would make sure that gets changed which would be probably in your interest. Personally I get leg shot with full resolve all the time, the reason why it will not help you is I will instantly dispel it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollowVamp Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 i agree entirely, Roots need to go back on resolve, or at the VERY least, respect it when its full Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollowVamp Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Tell that to snipers/GS, Leg shot DOES increase resolve and is "run through" by a full resolve bar ticking down. leg shot does not anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madtycoon Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 If the OP had a healer with him in the situation he described that healer fails at his class, because he could have just "dispelled" the chain root with one button, letting the op score. So again: surviving for 20 sec while being cc`d with 4 players beating on the OP only illustrates that it is far to easy to survive. Can't dispel most roots in the game, especially not the knight/warrior ones which he was probably getting hit with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmasterr Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 (edited) Can't dispel most roots in the game, especially not the knight/warrior ones which he was probably getting hit with. Abilities that remove all negative effects and vanish. Edited April 25, 2012 by Dmasterr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzoong Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 I'm sorry but it's not my job to do anything, it's their job to make sure the game works as it should, this is why we pay a subscription you know, for them to provide a service that we as customers are satisfied with. The days where game development was games made by gamers for gamers are long gone and with them any and all expectancy of player input, games are big business these days, the new Hollywood and they should be treated as such. To be fair though, a lot of the discrepancies between resolve bar and what actually happens can be put on really poor server side sync from what I can tell, you know the same thing that causes players on your screen to get stuck mid air for some time before shooting off to the location where they actually are, the same poor sync that makes the guy that's 15 meters away from you on your screen see you while stealth as if he was stood next to you (he probably was to) or are you going do deny that those are issues as well because no one recorded a detailed video of their existence. The difference between the sync issues you describe and the claims on resolve being broken is I can easily reproduce the sync issues, while I am not able to reproduce the resolve issues. I am totally with you in the argument that we obviously want the game we pay for to work as advertised, so please report the snyc issues, I did this with /bug and in forum posts, I fully agree that bugs/quality issues should be fixe`d as I am sure everybody will, but please make sure to be on spot regarding those bugs/issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torcer Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 (edited) Here’s the problem: You can be Stunned with the Resolve Bar 99% full. Good Players will use this mechanic in order to time their Stuns to Maximize your immobility by 1) FIRST stunning you, but not enough not to Fill your Resolve Bar; 2) NEXT as that Stun wears off, Stun you enough to fill the Resolve Bar, but with the least amount of resolve possible, and 3) Finally Stun you again when Resolve ticks below 100%. That's before we even factor in Roots, and skilled players will root you in place long enough for your Resolve to tick below 100%, and then hit you with another Stun. In other words, the Resolve Bar mechanic works, but it doesn’t fulfill its intended purpose of preventing chain immobility if a skilled Stunner exploits the mechanic to his advantage. Most people arguing about Resolve being broken aren’t arguing from a mechanical perspective, they’re arguing that it doesn’t work to prevent chain immobility. If it’s BW’s intent to allow skilled players to use Resolve to chain stun, well that’s several kinds of stupid, but at least give equally skilled players several ways to Break those chain stuns. Edited April 25, 2012 by Torcer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozse Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 The difference between the sync issues you describe and the claims on resolve being broken is I can easily reproduce the sync issues, while I am not able to reproduce the resolve issues. You missed the point though, that very same sync can easily account for a lot of resolve "bugs", the server tells you client one thing but realizes a split second later that what it just told you wasn't true, a prime example of this is the rare occasion when you die just as you pick up a health power up, some times you come back to life 1-2 seconds after you supposedly died. Add on top of this that suns and other effects that has a damage component to it can be fully absorbed and not count due to the damage never taking place, unless it's changed lately, not really been looking out for that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madtycoon Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 In other words, the Resolve Bar mechanic works, but it doesn’t fulfill its intended purpose of preventing chain immobility if a skilled Stunner exploits the mechanic to his advantage. Most people arguing about Resolve being broken aren’t arguing from a mechanical perspective, they’re arguing that it doesn’t work to prevent chain immobility. If it’s BW’s intent to allow skilled players to use Resolve to chain stun, well that’s several kinds of stupid, but at least give equally skilled players several ways to Break those chain stuns. I prefer mechanics like hunker down. Immunities to cc that you have to watch out for rather than just straight cc breaks. The resolve mechanic is sorta a joke. Straight diminishing returns or diminishing returns off where the bar is would be better imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzoong Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Can't dispel most roots in the game, especially not the knight/warrior ones which he was probably getting hit with. 20 sec (IN WORDS 20 SECONDS) , now how many undispellable perfectly lined-up warr roots do we need to to immobilize him until that resole bar is down, yeah exactly... Something there seems not right. Most roots are dispellable, just not by all classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaarsa Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 I'll be expecting a couple of terabytes of hard drives to fraps any and all games, a secondary computer to edit and encode on, finally a competent guy to handle the editing and encoding, once received I'll show you multiple occasions where what the resolve bar tells you and what actually happens doesn't match up. It's not the players job to make sure the game works as intended, we pay to play not to bug hunt and make videos of strange behavior. 1. It is impossible for anyone (BW including) to prove that something (including resolve) is bug-free. Why? Because it is logicaly impossible to prove lack of existence of something (otherewise we would have only 1 (or none) reiligion). On the other hand proving that resolve is bugged is very easy - 1 video is enough. 2. If I would only read posts from people claiming that resolve is bugged I would think that they enounter those buggs in every other WZ. Since they do and resolve is bugged, everyone should. There is a lot of youtube pvp videos - if the problem is so prevalent, it should be captured in at least 1 of them. Therefore, give me a link to such video. I never said "it has to be your video". I will accept any proof (with exception fairy tales, I can give you some of those too if you want). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzoong Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 (edited) Here’s the problem: You can be Stunned with the Resolve Bar 99% full. Good Players will use this mechanic in order to time their Stuns to Maximize your immobility by 1) FIRST stunning you, but not enough not to Fill your Resolve Bar; 2) NEXT as that Stun wears off, Stun you enough to fill the Resolve Bar, but with the least amount of resolve possible, and 3) Finally Stun you again when Resolve ticks below 100%. That's before we even factor in Roots, and skilled players will root you in place long enough for your Resolve to tick below 100%, and then hit you with another Stun. In other words, the Resolve Bar mechanic works, but it doesn’t fulfill its intended purpose of preventing chain immobility if a skilled Stunner exploits the mechanic to his advantage. Most people arguing about Resolve being broken aren’t arguing from a mechanical perspective, they’re arguing that it doesn’t work to prevent chain immobility. If it’s BW’s intent to allow skilled players to use Resolve to chain stun, well that’s several kinds of stupid, but at least give equally skilled players several ways to Break those chain stuns. Please think about what you just wrote, when doing what you just described (and I do that a lot) the player subjected to that "cc-chain" does have enough chances to react and end that chain if he has an equal understanding of the underlying mechanics, he can use his cc to control me and the opportunities are there since there are necessary gaps in the chain and the roots do in no way prevent him from using his abilities. Of course this gets really hard 1v4. But again you are not supposed to live 1v4 and you are SPECIFICALLY not supposed to live 20 sec with 4 players beating on you while you are in a perfectly lined-up cc- chain by those 4 players while not getting dispelled. (edited for clarity) Edited April 25, 2012 by Bazzoong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madtycoon Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 20 sec (IN WORDS 20 SECONDS) , now how many undispellable perfectly lined-up warr roots do we need to to immobilize him until that resole bar is down, yeah exactly... Something there seems not right. Most roots are dispellable, just not by all classes. Yeah thats true and honestly most healers at least on my server don't even have cleanse bound it seems, but who knows the dispellable root might have landed when their dispel was on cooldown. I can only remove like 3 and 1 is the sage/sorc dot that's only noticeable from the others because it comes with that dot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozse Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 On the other hand proving that resolve is bugged is very easy - 1 video is enough. Doubt even 1% of the players have fraps nor machines that makes it a enjoyable gamin experience to use it, not to mention that you can't travel back in time to fraps what just happened, so no, not that easy. There is a lot of youtube pvp videos - if the problem is so prevalent, it should be captured in at least 1 of them. Therefore, give me a link to such video. Again, not my job, pay me and I might consider using my time for that purpose, other than that anecdotal evidence is the best BW or anyone will get, we as player can describe an issue to the best of our abilities, perhaps it's not a bug, perhaps it is, perhaps it's perceived as a bug due to an underlying issue, it's BW's job to figure out why the players are having the issues they do and correct them. If they can't sort out why a big part of the player base has issues with resolve then it might be the presentation in game, or perhaps it's just the overall design that isn't playing out in a way that makes sense to the players and as such needs to be re designed in a more comprehensible clear defined way that is easy to see if it's working as intended or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWImara Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 The game's approach to CC in general is pretty hamfisted imo. I don't have a problem with how much of it there is, I do have a problem with how difficult it is to navigate around. Stuns, Mezzes, Pushes, Pulls etc are fine where they are atm (Push/Pull can be a bit annoying but that's the nature of CC) but the root/snare issue could probably do with being looked into. None of this is gamebreaking by any means (OP certainly could have done things to remain useful to his team) but it doesn't seem quite right. The reason OP noticed this issue (most likely) is because he was chain-rooted by Warriors/Knights it's unpleasant, its crap design but it's always been this way. Basically it is just getting highlighted because everyone and their mom is flocking toward the current OP ez-mode classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Philar Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Doubt even 1% of the players have fraps nor machines that makes it a enjoyable gamin experience to use it, not to mention that you can't travel back in time to fraps what just happened, so no, not that easy. Again, not my job, pay me and I might consider using my time for that purpose, other than that anecdotal evidence is the best BW or anyone will get, we as player can describe an issue to the best of our abilities, perhaps it's not a bug, perhaps it is, perhaps it's perceived as a bug due to an underlying issue, it's BW's job to figure out why the players are having the issues they do and correct them. If they can't sort out why a big part of the player base has issues with resolve then it might be the presentation in game, or perhaps it's just the overall design that isn't playing out in a way that makes sense to the players and as such needs to be re designed in a more comprehensible clear defined way that is easy to see if it's working as intended or not. Are you filing actual in game bug reports? Because if you aren't doing that and you aren't posting videos then you aren't doing anything other than complaining about something that probably doesn't even exist. If there is a bug we all want it fixed. If there isn't a bug then we all want you to stop saying there is one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzoong Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 (edited) The game's approach to CC in general is pretty hamfisted imo. I don't have a problem with how much of it there is, I do have a problem with how difficult it is to navigate around. Stuns, Mezzes, Pushes, Pulls etc are fine where they are atm (Push/Pull can be a bit annoying but that's the nature of CC) but the root/snare issue could probably do with being looked into. None of this is gamebreaking by any means (OP certainly could have done things to remain useful to his team) but it doesn't seem quite right. The reason OP noticed this issue (most likely) is because he was chain-rooted by Warriors/Knights it's unpleasant, its crap design but it's always been this way. Basically it is just getting highlighted because everyone and their mom is flocking toward the current OP ez-mode classes. The point you are making is a matter of class balance and class skill design and the question there is are the "free" roots on charge etc. balanced, but that is something completely different form the "fix resolve" issue the OP has raised. Class and skill balance has nothing to do with resolve as such. Edited April 25, 2012 by Bazzoong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaarsa Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Are you filing actual in game bug reports? Because if you aren't doing that and you aren't posting videos then you aren't doing anything other than complaining about something that probably doesn't even exist. If there is a bug we all want it fixed. If there isn't a bug then we all want you to stop saying there is one. Amen. Bozse - my friend was kidnaped by UFO and aliens put some microchip in his brain. You should totaly believe me bbecause I say so. What is your reaction? Proof or this is BS. And you are right. Since I have done excesive testing of resolve system, this will be my answer to anyone stating that resolve is bugged - proof or it is BS. If you dont have proof, cant provide one, cant reproduce situation, cant even describe it in details (I used my skill against this guy with no resolve and it didnt work! is not a detailed description) than why even posting this? Every single thing I post about resolve is easy to reproduce, test or find video for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozse Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Are you filing actual in game bug reports? Because if you aren't doing that and you aren't posting videos then you aren't doing anything other than complaining about something that probably doesn't even exist. So just because some one don't have the machine nor wants to donate their time watching others videos for their issue and chooses the forums as their place to provide feedback they should be deemed a lier, a forum where you in most cases are directed to by in game CS. If there is a bug we all want it fixed. If there isn't a bug then we all want you to stop saying there is one. Sure we all want it to be fixed, the difference is that I'm not willing to give up my time whilst not being payed to track them down, especially when they are as random as some of the stuff I seen, resolve issues included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xdvesper Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Most immobilize effects only last 2 seconds when the target is taking damage. The OP claiming 20 seconds worth of immobilize probably makes him a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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