Need a way to change advanced classes

[Stellin]

why would you screw up and make the wrong AC decision more than 1 time per class?

 

If you want to play all 4 AC's of a starting planet (Say Korriban for example), then you have to essentially go through 4 tutorials. I made a Marauder, played him to lvl 15. I decided I really wanted to be a Jugg instead. But I also have a Sorc and an Assasin. Now I have to level a Jugg from 1-10. Why do I need to go through the tutorial again? I don't mind replaying all of the quests again on Dromond Kaas, etc, but the tutorial planets get really, really old. It takes about 4-5 hours for the first planet tutorial. A forced 4-5 hour tutorial for something I have done multiple times seems like a bad idea.

[Obie_Wan]

Hey guys, I don't like so and so idea so you guys can't like it too.

[Cmdluke]

If you want to play all 4 AC's of a starting planet (Say Korriban for example), then you have to essentially go through 4 tutorials. I made a Marauder, played him to lvl 15. I decided I really wanted to be a Jugg instead. But I also have a Sorc and an Assasin. Now I have to level a Jugg from 1-10. Why do I need to go through the tutorial again? I don't mind replaying all of the quests again on Dromond Kaas, etc, but the tutorial planets get really, really old. It takes about 4-5 hours for the first planet tutorial. A forced 4-5 hour tutorial for something I have done multiple times seems like a bad idea.

 

takes no more than 2 hours max to finish your starting planet and hit lvl 10. unless you are doing everything you possibly can and watching every cut scene.

[Cmdluke]

Hey guys, I don't like so and so idea so you guys can't like it too.

 

Finally a post that makes sense on these forums. Thank you for attempting to spread some much needed wisdom throughout these boards!

[Kucerakov]

Hey guys, I don't like so and so idea so you guys can't like it too.

 

It would be more accurate to say "I don't like this game so I will play one that is fundamentally different, and so must everyone else."

 

Allowing AC changes will fundamentally change this game. Because really, playing a game that allows you to change your class at higher levels is the same as playing an entirely different game, and genre. When you ask for AC change, you are basically saying "Even though I don't really like role playing games, I chose to play one, so now I want you to change it to suit me."

 

As far as doing the math, it's not really necessary. It's clearly evident. The time it takes to walk one path < the time it takes to walk two. Which of course does not even touch upon future revenue from gearing both characters. It's quite simple really , barring any bizarre exceptions or changes in reality, leveling and gearing two toons will take longer and keep one engaged longer than one toon.

 

None of this is new or groundbreaking. The business model of an mmo parses to "Keep as many people subscribed and NOT logged in to the game as long as possible." Saying leveling one toon and swithching is as likely or even plausible to keep you hooked to the game as long as two is, is as much of the stretch as the guy pointing out you can level to 50 without choosing an AC. It's simply not a valid point. Sure, someone might spend as much time leveling one toon as two, but it is so improbable as to have no place in an intelligent discussion. We have to agree on reality before we can discuss how it works.

[Aurlon]

Galbatorrix already covered everything pretty well.

 

There is really no good reasons AC respec's shouldn't happen. A few of the common arguments against:

 

They're totally different classes! That's like respeccing a Mage to a Warrior!

 

No, it's not like that at all. Advanced classes share in some cases more than 50% of their core abilites, they share the exact same storyline, the same gear (primary stat), a talent tree, companions, ship, resource system. I'm probably forgetting a few.

 

People would suck, they wouldn't know how to play their classes!

 

This isn't unique to advanced classes. Going from a Sawbones to a Scrapper is about as different as going from a Sawbones to a Gunslinger. People adapt and learn.

 

No other game let's you!

 

Not relevant at all. Star Wars doesn't have to follow an unwritten set of rules that say no to class respecs. But to entertain the idea for a second; compare a Sage to a Shadow. Quite different right? One is ranged, one is melee. Too different? Now compare a Resto Druid to a Feral Druid.

 

Choices have concequences!

 

You won't mind if talent respecs are removed then right?

 

I just don't like it - I prefer 8 classes and people would flip-flop to the next FotM.

 

Right here's a fair point, it's not an insurmountable problem though. An advanced class respec could be made extremely cost prohibitive, have limits in the number of times you can respec, credit costs or other time/currency sinks.

 

The bottom line is rolling the same base class twice is boring and not fun. I've done it, it killed my enthusiasm for the game for a few months.

 

TL;DR: Implemented properly advanced class respecs could work for the benefit of everyone with little or no consequences.

 

Aurlon

[Obie_Wan]

It would be more accurate to say "I don't like this game so I will play one that is fundamentally different, and so must everyone else."

 

Allowing AC changes will fundamentally change this game. Because really, playing a game that allows you to change your class at higher levels is the same as playing an entirely different game, and genre. When you ask for AC change, you are basically saying "Even though I don't really like role playing games, I chose to play one, so now I want you to change it to suit me."

 

As far as doing the math, it's not really necessary. It's clearly evident. The time it takes to walk one path < the time it takes to walk two. Which of course does not even touch upon future revenue from gearing both characters. It's quite simple really , barring any bizarre exceptions or changes in reality, leveling and gearing two toons will take longer and keep one engaged longer than one toon.

 

None of this is new or groundbreaking. The business model of an mmo parses to "Keep as many people subscribed and NOT logged in to the game as long as possible." Saying leveling one toon and swithching is as likely or even plausible to keep you hooked to the game as long as two is, is as much of the stretch as the guy pointing out you can level to 50 without choosing an AC. It's simply not a valid point. Sure, someone might spend as much time leveling one toon as two, but it is so improbable as to have no place in an intelligent discussion. We have to agree on reality before we can discuss how it works.

 

Hey guys. I chose to not do this because I hate it, but I won't allow you to do it either because it offends me. Only my opinion and value matters.

[Freyar]

No. If you want to change your AC (there was a big message about how your AC was permanent), re-roll.

[Sotaudi]

Knew someone would come out with this argument, as if it was remotely the same.

 

Think up something more relevant would you?

 

Your AC isn't that different to your base class, just a new skill tree and extra abilities. I mean you can even level up to 50 without ever choosing one, which just goes to show there's not a huge amount of difference in what you get once you choose one.

 

AC's are like Red Apples and Green Apples, not Red Apples and Oranges as you put it.

 

That is not true either. There are tremendous differences between Shadows and Sages, for instance. Shadows have a large number of melee skills and few few skills that work outsie of melee range while Sages are mostly casting and operate from as far as 30m. Sages can heal while Shadows can tank. Suggesting that they are basically the same simply because they share a few abilities and wear the same armor is nonsense. The latter doesn't even work for Knights because Guardians wear heavy armor while Sentinals wear medium.

 

So the Mage to Warrior doesn't work for you, but the comparison was valid because what you are suggesting is that Mage to Warlock, Hunter to Rogue, or Warrior to Paladin would because they are basically similar in function.

 

You can say that specs within an AC are like different varieties of apples, but ACs are like Apples and Oranges. They are both fruit and, therefore, have some common characteristics, but they are not the same.

[Thuggy]

It would be more accurate to say "I don't like this game so I will play one that is fundamentally different, and so must everyone else."

 

Allowing AC changes will fundamentally change this game. Because really, playing a game that allows you to change your class at higher levels is the same as playing an entirely different game, and genre. When you ask for AC change, you are basically saying "Even though I don't really like role playing games, I chose to play one, so now I want you to change it to suit me."

Holy Hyperbole Batman....

As far as doing the math, it's not really necessary. It's clearly evident. The time it takes to walk one path < the time it takes to walk two. Which of course does not even touch upon future revenue from gearing both characters. It's quite simple really , barring any bizarre exceptions or changes in reality, leveling and gearing two toons will take longer and keep one engaged longer than one toon.

 

That business model only works on an extremely small demographic of gamers. If Bioware truly wants to break and retain 2million+ subscribers, they need to carefully balance the grind vs content. Time is a commodity, and most people will just unsubscribe, rather than grind up a second character with identical story content (At least in a game where the story is it's primary selling point.)

[xxdragonragexx]

This has been covered so many times. Of course it affects other people. This change will never happen because Bioware relies heavily on FOTM classes.

 

Anyway, imagine people able to change their AC. We have assassin tanks that change to sorc healers. I invite this guy to do some raid with us because he seems experienced and have the gear to raid. Guess what happens? We wipe on the first boss because the healer don't know wth he is doing. Imagine the whole server doing this.

 

Sorry but AC change does create a negative experience for a lot of people.

[Thegriss]

I have a 50 sorc and a 50 assasin and i can tell you they are 2 totally different classes. Being able to change your AC would be like going from a hunter to a warrior in wow... I hope they never give players this option.

[Hiply]

Mechanically they are identical. Obviously there are differing roles and abilities based on skill tree, but if you look at the just Pyro tree there is little difference in how they are played.

 

Would I like to see an AC respec NPC? Yes, as long as it is within your core class. But only because it was promised during beta.

Can I live without an AC respec NPC? Yes.

 

All not having it does is make it a little harder for people to be FotM. But having it would keep me from having to reroll start to finish as a PT or Assassin. I was under the impression BW wanted us to experience the story across all eight perspectives. Not allowing for 1-time AC respec, coupled with a finite number of character slots per server does not bode well for this grand design.

 

It was not promised during beta, period.

 

It was discussed...ad nauseum...and there was conversation that it might happen, but that IF it did happen it would be capped at a very low level (like 15-20) and be hard to do.

[VulcanLogic]

Dear Blizzard,

 

I have a level 85 mage but I think I'd rather play warlock. Please change my 85 mage into an 85 warlock. I don't want to spend the 5 days /played to get one.

 

That's what this thread sounds like to me.

Edited April 24, 2012 by VulcanLogic

[Dasgruberg]

I disagree with OP. If you can change classes on the fly, whats the point imo. The advanced classes are so distinctly different that this wouldnt be a good idea in my opinion. Sure youde have to do the story again, but if you dont like it, spacebar is your best friend

[Jenzali]

Neither side can be argued successfully in a forum.

 

The only thing that matters is that it won't ever happen. It's one of the very, very few things that Bioware has expressly stated they will never implement. They said "Advanced class IS your class". The only reason for similar base classes to exist is because because of time/budget constraints when writing the story lines and doing voice-overs, in addition to not overly diluting gear drops.

 

Consider yourself special, pro-AC switching people. You are so wrong, that you're the only people that BW has directly called out as being wrong

 

Aside from the obvious balancing and "FOTM" issues that it would create, it doesn't make sense in-universe. Why should someone who spent their entire life perfecting a certain lightsaber form instantly be able to switch to another? How would an operative trained in close-range combat and vibroknives suddenly have expert marksmanship skills with a sniper rifle?

 

Switching from feral to resto druid, or sawbones to scrapper scoundrel isn't a good analogy because you learn all those skills from the trainer as you level up. Choosing not to use Underworld Medicine and preferring to sneak around is a choice rather than a restriction.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Jenzali

[zerosaint]

All I hear when I read the OP's post:

 

"I'm a Sage who really wants to be a Shadow tank now that Sages aren't OP."

 

Which is the very reason you shouldn't be allowed to change AT.

[GnatB]

8 character slots

only really 8 ac's.

8 storylines

 

So you just create an alt of the different AC with the other storyline. End problem.

[SWKatria]

No, it's not like that at all. Advanced classes share in some cases more than 50% of their core abilites...

 

An assassin is closer to a jugg than it is a sorcerer regardless of sharing core abilities.

[Kucerakov]

Holy Hyperbole Batman....

 

 

That business model only works on an extremely small demographic of gamers. If Bioware truly wants to break and retain 2million+ subscribers, they need to carefully balance the grind vs content. Time is a commodity, and most people will just unsubscribe, rather than grind up a second character with identical story content (At least in a game where the story is it's primary selling point.)

 

I added the emphasis. You make a good point if... you ignore absolutely all of the evidence we have on the subject to date and the entire basis for the existence of the genre. Yes, a very good point. I like your caveat though, well played.

[bishanator]

Knew someone would come out with this argument, as if it was remotely the same.

 

Think up something more relevant would you?

 

Your AC isn't that different to your base class, just a new skill tree and extra abilities. I mean you can even level up to 50 without ever choosing one, which just goes to show there's not a huge amount of difference in what you get once you choose one.

 

AC's are like Red Apples and Green Apples, not Red Apples and Oranges as you put it.

 

 

your kidding right? there IS a HUGE amount of difference between ACs.

 

Sniper v Operative.

Assasin v Sorc

Merc v Power

 

 

it does not take a genius to clearly see there are vast differences between those classes.

Edited April 24, 2012 by bishanator

[DarthRik]

Dear Bioware, If you want to keep players here and playing this game you need to add a a way, a tool, a device, that will allow players a chance at changing their advanced class. I know most the people who come to these boards and post will have 100 bad things to say about it, but they should not have any voice in my game EXP, only I should. Just as I should have no say in theirs.

 

Please add this and save me from deleting a toon I already that I already have so much done on.

 

they have

 

its called charactor creation screen.

 

see this is how it works. you click on creat charactor and then get asked if you want to be rep or imp. you then get asked which class, at the top of this screen you will see the AC optain, you get to read before you even start playing what the AC will do. you pick your class and then race ect ect. hit play and play untill lvl 9-11.

 

you then get asked what AC you want. as you have such and such AC you pick the one you dont have... there you have just changed your advance class free of charge and with no fuss, and in less time it would take bioware to change it for you.

 

but i am going to ask blizzard if im able to change my warlock into a mage from MoP

[lokivoid]

Dear Bioware, If you want to keep players here and playing this game you need to add a a way, a tool, a device, that will allow players a chance at changing their advanced class.

.

This statement contradicts it self, as by allowing one to change their AC it would effectively cut the total classes in half, in effect the opposite of "keeping players here, and playing this game".

 

I know most the people who come to these boards and post will have 100 bad things to say about it, but they should not have any voice in my game EXP, only I should. Just as I should have no say in theirs.

This statement is self contradicting as well. They do have a voice on the subject because what you request effects their game experience.

 

Please add this and save me from deleting a toon I already that I already have so much done on.

Unless you have all character slots full, you are not required to delete the character. Chances are you have not done any real work on the toon outside of the class quests. Even if you did the itemization most gear for the character would not be ideal for another AC.

 

Suck it up and reroll, and next time do you research on the AC's befor picking one.

[Regentlord]

I just leveled a Jugg but now I want a Mara and I already know the story line so leveling through it again is boring.

[ekwalizer]

whoa just a minute there buddy. nothing was promised during beta. originally, they said AC changes were never gonna happen. then during beta they said they would implement AC swapping for credits at an exponentially increasing rate based on level so it would be financially impossible by level 20. Then they decided not to implement it. During a beta, things are ALWAYS subject to change.

 

Actually what they said, was that they wanted to put in an AC Respec vendor with the first being free and exponentially increasing after that. To keep players from respecing all the time. They wanted it to be a 1 time thing in the event that you didn't like your AC.